Why the Rangers??!!

Isn't it enough that the rangers are the most avoided class when making groups for PvE? Or that IMO they are the most underpowered class (some armor, but not good enough... Some damage, but..... A few good skills....

Lets face it, rangers have little to offer in a balanced PvE groups apart from spirits and traps. And now the 2 top "Nature Rituals" get nerfed... LOL. I've been stuck at Thunderhead Keep among the hordes of warriors and other rangers for 3 weeks now, unable to get in a good enough group to complete the mission. Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

And what do we get in return? A few skill casting times "REDUCED" from 0.75 to 0.5 sec LOL... LOL, as if that's going to make any difference over the Internet latency. There isn't an easy way to measure that, but what you see on your screen is already about 1 sec "AFTER" it has happened on the server, so 0.25 sec reduction is..... (softly speaking) ridiculous.

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

So, what's next Mr Isaiah Cartwright? Kill off the ranger class completely by making it almost useless and undesirable in groups?

Why do people get on Rangers so much? They are freakin AWESOME.

Simple, they don't know how to play them.

uhm...rangers are super effective interupters.

sounds like you just aren't using your ranger correctly. With the addition of AL to lvl20 pets i'd venture to bet that there are a number of builds you design around beast mastery. Which would make tigers fury even more appropriate. Gives you a solid bow attack to use while your pet is tanking/doing dmg without having to bump a seperate attribute.

Wow, talk about over-exagerration. Nothing about these changes weakened the Ranger class at all.

Um, Nature's Renewal and Fertile Season aren't very helpful in PvE at all. So I don't know what you're whining about. They aren't going to get you through Thunderhead, that's for damn sure. Neither will Quickening Zephyr.

Expertise is not broken. Again, I don't know what you're talking about.

Here, let me explain the wondrous secret to Thunderhead Keep to you in two easy steps: (Note, this is easily done with henchman)

1) Get to Keep.
2) Sit on top of king, and kill anyone who comes near him. Don't even need to bother with the ballistas, though I used them to annihilate most of the Stone Summit, and just babysat the king for the White Mantle.

As long as you kill things at a remotely reasonable rate, its easy. The enemies rarely reach the king in groups greater than 4 unless you get tied up on killing them, which you shouldn't.

In short, you're so far off base its not even funny.

OP:

Rangers can easily achieve the same DPS as warriors. If you can't think of a build yourself, look into the build forum and find a cookie-cutter build.

The only time I find Spirits useful in PvE is only in Ring of Fire against all the fire-resist mobs. Otherwise I don't see what's the point of the whining. If you use NR in PvE, you'll just get your own E and Mo yell at you. (not to mention all those poor W/Mo who use Mending). If you use QZ, monks will hate you and not heal you. So can you please give me a justifiable argument as to why spirit nerf will affect your PvE experience?

Maybe he was hoping to spam walls of spirits around the king?

-Diomedes

Ranger DPS > Elementalist DPS period.

Rangers are also wonderful at interruption and when mixed with a mesmer secondary are also awesome at energy denial.

So why are you complaining? Please play with better builds.

Every rank in Expertise reduces energy costs on any attack skills, preparations, or traps by 5%.

Not every skill on your bar. There's nothing broken about it. Nor Rangers, for that matter.

Also want to quote Aniewiel from another thread here:

Congratulations, most PvErs are blithering morons. You can rebalance all you want, but you can't raise the general intelligence of a PUG.


Which demonstrates to everyone just how valuable your opinion is.


Let's face it, most Ranger players wouldn't know how to do something useful if it stabbed them in the face. Of course that goes for most players of other professions as well.


As we know, Nature's Renewal and Quickening Zephyr were *huge* PvE skills. I mean *huge*. You'd see people running around outposts screaming "LOOKING FOR NATURES RENEWAL RANGER!" all the freaking time. It was driving me nuts.

The PvE Ranger as we know it has been irrevocably nerfed.


Caremeter:

[-|-------------------------]


That's interesting, because I completed that mission with my Ranger on the first try. With bonus. Myself and six henchies, because Aidan and Dunham suck and I refuse to split the already pathetic drops with them.

Perhaps the difference is player skill? Perhaps you really don't know how to play a Ranger, and are getting a crash course in how little you know?


Return for losing those godly Nature Rituals that were the crux of every Ranger's PvE strategy.


Actually Punishing Shot was reduced from a normal attack to interrupt speed. I've noticed that a lot of PvE Rangers are in love with that skill for whatever reason so I'd call that a pretty substantial buff.


You want it toned down so that it isn't abusively good?

Oh, wait, you mean like it doesn't work right. Can't say I've ever seen that happen. Or heard about it.


You mean, like, under Quickening Zephyr?


One thing that balance changes cannot do is instill competence into terrible players. The problem with your Ranger, and I cannot stress this enough, is you. You have one of the most powerful classes in the game to make a build with, and blaming the skill balancer for your failure just makes you look even more clueless. If I were you, I would stop posting and take a look at some of the Rangers posted and talked about on these forums before, at least if you wanted to avoid embarassing yourself further.

Peace,
-CxE

Maiming strike has a use by itself w/o bringing CoH together.

Was it really only 60 AL on pets before? I could've sworn my pet was tanking as well as warriors, although a lot warriors suck at tanking and damage dealing, being sucky at both at the same time(impossible you would think).

NR is a different thing than what it used to be now. I always liked it for the hex removal which will now be near impossible.

I don't mind each ranger having only 1 spirit of a type on the field at once. It stops some massive spamming/wall blocking. However, I disapprove of the ALL ALLIED being destroyed. This makes it impossible to keep any type of spirit up with their low health and long cast times.

ouch and lol

Only allied spirit of the same type is destroy. You can still spam...but just have to spam different types.

rangers, IMO, can do 2 things. one, tank decently(dodge, troll unguent, one other, my bros the ranger not me) while doing decent dmg, and two, do massive amounts of damage to a single unit(tigers, ignite arrows, diabolitating shot, pin down), w/o giving up abilities that keep them alive VERY well.


rangers are great for PvE compared to eles or monks, because, just like mesmers, they work better on single, or a few enemies, not hordes.

hahahaha ... the caremeter in full effect. I'm glad I've managed to avoid being on the receiving end of Ensign's wtfownage of noobs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


erm..

Rangers can do a crap load of damage, and can interupt like crazy. try things like Kindle Arrows + Dual Shot or Quick Shot, Distracting Shot, Practiced Stance + Choking Gas.

the power of the ranger does not lie just within a few spirits, and yes IMO it is unfair when a ranger can use all his spirits then use oath shot and have em right back up again.

sounds to me like you just dont know how to play the class, so quit whining about it like a little sissy boy (no pun intended).

At level 8 in Ascalon Arena, I am owning Forge running level 10 warriors with the proper skill set. I can blow through most missions/quest with henchies with the proper 5-6 skills (I am stillplaying around with my secondary class).

BTW - we owned a guild yesterday in GvG because of the one ranger we had in the build and they where ranked higher than us. And no he was not a spirit spammer.

Cant wait to complete my ranger skills (only one spirit and not even using it)

Go crimsonfilms! Show them what a real Ranger does!

This is perhaps the best thread I've read today, and if I hadn't already seen all the monks at ToA earlier today this would take the cake.

Rangers for teh win!

... i love my interupting Ranger.... wish Savage Shot was .5 tho... oh well

See, now I find that weird. My ranger did the mission with bonus with henchies only and the king never even got hit. He only joined in 2 or 3 of the fights on the way to the fort because, being a ranger, I was nowhere near most of the enemies. Then in the fort the only enemy who even got near him was the Mursaat Mesmer boss, and he didn't last long enough to do anything.


I've never noticed any problems with Expertise. I have 13 in it and from what I've seen all my 5 energy skills always cost 2 energy. The only 25 energy skill I use is Concussion Shot and it always seems to cost only 12, which is easy to see since I generally have my full 32 energy when I use it.

Rangers haven't been nerfed; people who need to use cookie cutter builds that they don't understand have been nerfed.

Rangers are fine, possibly even better. Spirits still work, they just require thought and application rather than winning by simply spamming fast enough.

Right, I know it's of the same type. But I think it'd be better if several ppl could cast the same spirit if they all brought it. This is just to ensure it's harder to get rid of. 1 spirit by itself is easily killed off and with the long cast time and easy disruption, will be near impossible to recast in battle.

Otherswise, it's now made quite useless to something not too overpowered to begin with since it affects both teams. And with the nerfing of NR, there's no reason to also do this.

I LOVE Rangers. In fact, I'm making one on my second account, and it's gonna be awesome! If you don't like rangers, it's because you don't understand their effectiveness! Their ability to inflict conditions is unparalled IMO, and they do it with ease!

I think his point (at least part of it) was that most of the time Ranger primary class gets passed over for grouping, its unfortunate but true....

cant wait to c the reaction of the TS (if there will come one)

I think we rangers need to rise up and get something done that profits us but pisses off the PvP crowd. We all know NR was messed with because of PvP reasons only.

I'll admit, I'm clueless about Ranger builds. I have always avoided archer classes and melee classes in games. Always have been and always will be a caster. The only time I was ever a bowslinger was in D2 - an Enchantress with a Demon Machine. I know that the game's designers intended the rangers to have usefulness in both aspects of the game. Just because I don't understand the class or know how to play doesn't mean it is underpowered. BTW, I have had my hiney handed to me by a ranger more than once. So I know they are not underpowered.

So what PvE Ranger builds got ruined thanks to NR's nerf?

Look at the bright side. They did something good for rangers too. Ranger's pet gets buffed up a bit, with 20% faster running speed and 80 armor, up from 60 before. Although I am still waiting for them to combine comfort animal and charm animal, this move will help those pet-loving rangers a bit. I hope this is just one of many moves anet will take to make the beastmastery line worthwhile.

If you were using the old Nature's Renewal in PvE, you should just quit playing a Ranger entirely.

And completely aside from that, guess what? Skills are balanced for PvP purposes. That's how equality is maintained. That sort of balance doesn't matter nearly as much in PvE.

owned.

I've played through all the classes and still do not care for my Ranger. I find that any jobI can put him to doing, another class can do that job (or a replacement function) much better. You can make the Ranger class work, but if offered the oppurtunity to only play one class ever again, Ranger would be last on the list. IMO, the Ranger is essentially a novelty class. And yes, I know its benefits. I also know its weaknesses.

As i keep saying, (it's getting annoying now, people have EXTREMELY thick heads.) NR disabled a heap of skills in the game. No need to nerf you say? Have a look at it. It isn't nerfed, it's useful, but not overpowered. It can disable most necro, mesmer, some monk and some ele builds, as well as not having a tied attribute and having no scaling or elite status. IF it was elite, maybe it would be the right power, otherwise, way, way, way overpowered. It's fine like it is now, make a new build that doesn't rely on spirits, or whine until the next update. (sorry if this is a little harsh, but everyone's complaining about the nerfing of the overpowered NR and it's pissing me off.)

How about stopping and not thinking everyone is complaining entirely about NR being nerfed and READING instead of responding with your same canned post. You're the one with the thick head here. Have you even followed my messages in this thread? NOPE!

My entire post was about the killing all allied spirits of same type. And that already with the NR nerf, other spirit changes, this additional one isn't really needed. Now they're impossible to maintain b/c of long cast time, easy death.

Of course, you probably just do forum search see my post has NR and nerf in it and type your canned response again.

LOL I think this is very probable

It was useful in the underworld. Not that little part everyone knows that has smite crawlers and horrible drops, but the rest, with mesmers and necromancers and the party sometimes being affected by 2-3 hexes each... Nature's Renewal was good there to avoid being brutally murdered by a dozen mesmers at once.

But as for breaking rangers, puh-leeease. Monks probably got "nerfed" more, if you can even call it that.

Noes, my class no longer makes all other classes inferior

Something tells me, though, that this was also an anti-UW solo solution.

If you walked near that dry, empty lake with dragon bones in it, just up from where you start in UW all your enchants would instantly drop due to the Obsidian Beast things puuting up NR (IE, -8 energy degen).

It seems like giving the Aaxtees NR would be a better idea than just nerfing prot bond.

Did Oath Shot get nerfed ? It's still possible to spam spirits every ~10 seconds, it's just that now it can only be done in reaction to spirits getting removed, not to prevent spirits getting removed.

Spirits still work, they just require more thought, skill and teamwork. That's never a bad thing.

I have a lv17 bear which if it dies, remains dead cause I have comfort animal replaced with another skill, usually a spirit.

I use NR when going up against enemies or bosses that use hex spells. Some for example will only try and cast hex spells and therefore are not to hard to kill. As for someone telling me to quit playing my ranger this way... So far what I have been doing has worked just fine for me.

You must be joking! Us rangers got off lucky! Personally, aside from the increase in QZ and the spirit spam nerf (which I totally agree with), everything else is a benefit.

Trappers, Quickshots, Disruptors etc are still sought after for PvP AND PvE. UW trapping parties with different spirits continue unhindered, and let's face it, everybody loves a ranger, and if they don't then they are missing out on one of the most versatile and adaptable party members in the game.

I pity the mesmers and necros. They got undeserved nerfs to make things more awkward for their builds. The 105 smite monks, well, I'm sure that after the 2 days of crying and sulking, someone will be back with a tweak to overcome the Prot bond nerf.

But the original poster is only looking at the spirit spammers. Bottom line is that they really deserve to be nerfed just as much as the 105/55 monks. A good ranger in PvP can still swing the balance of a game. He just has to be a little more active than hitting "Natures Renewal" about 50 times.