Stop Nerfing solo builds - nerf the reason for soloing

For the record, I'm not Anti-Farming - quite the opposite, actually. In the "Suggestions to ANet", I was merely suggesting how ridiculous it is to try and purge farming from GW.

Edit: Deleted rest of the post. I realized my reply had little to do with the original post.

How bout /stickied instead just to be sure the retards get it. This is the answer to all the whinning. If they would do what this thread's about, there wouldn't be any use for the build or soloing period.

There's no abusing the system. This doesn't do anything to anyone. It's there, anyone can do it so they have no reason to whine. And wtf is wrong with using someone elses build. I made my monk so it would be easier to get a party. I made it to UW and got in a group with someone using the 55 build, decided to use it. Yesterday, guess what, saw another monk build and decided to use it. There's only so many ways to farm UW you know. They can just actually fix the problem instead of pleasing whiners with nerfs and making it harder to succeed with whatever you're trying to do. I'll bet you there isn't one person that has played this game that haven't sat and thought for a while throughout the game, deciding what they wanted on their skill bar. They made it possible to solo completely by youself so it's fine.

They never intended for the game to be played that way. Wtf? Stupid imo.

Yea and go ahead and leave it in like the faction.

Part of the game is allowing players to choose and customize different weapons/armors. why do you think theres so many different upgrades or dyes or runes? So what that fissure armor costs 1.4 million gold. IT is afterall in the hardest area, with some of the hardest monsters, and requires the hardest materials to gather in order to make it. Same with 15k armor to a lesser extent. It gives players a way to express and personalize their own characters. yes 15k and 1.5k and fissure armor has the same stats, but just look different, but it goes again as to the customization and personalization of characters. Why do you also think theres different faces and hair styles? it gives players more options. This game is supposed to be challenging and anyone that has the skilsl to solo or a build to solo and thats what they wanan do, Have fun and enjoy the rewards when u find that perfect item or 3 ectos on a run or u can finally get your 15k or fissure armor.

But its the prices that have gone through the roof. I was in lions arch and had a guy asking 900k for a perfect req8 longsword 15>50 10/10 sundering health +30. now im thinking ok aparently you dont get it. I can go to droknars forge and have a long sword crafted that has a req 9 and 15>50 dmg for 40 iron ignots and 4 steel ignots and 1.5k. I could buy a 10/7 sundering hilt, OMG ppl give those away for like 5-10k, and a 25 pommel of fort for the same price. so basically after all si said and done, i get 5 less health and 3% lower chance to penetrate armor, and saved 875k in the process. yeah it may not be perfect, but it gets the job done just fine.

For players that want a good weapon and a low price, id suggest doing somethign like that. you dont have to have the PERFECT item to still be able to do good damage and have a great item.

I have never made more than 15k.
I have my one set of droks armor , I have a few superior runes and a moderatly good weapon.
And I neither farm nor run ppl.

I have never *gone* looking for money or items.

but I am a much much better monk than the one with the yakslapper that doesn't have a res, or that warrior that level 12 warrior in a level 18 area that keeps rushing ahead with forge armor thinking himself invincible.

I think the reason Anet is nerfing solos is because they absolutely do not want people to do so. It's not a game made for that.

Since it has it's own mini-economy it relies ont players as a whole to dictate it, but as soon as those individuals start *farming* they bring in a huge influx of items that raise the prices dramatically and dictates the prices of trader items as well.

Farmer who go out just to bring back items, dozens of black dyes and runes of many kinds and sell them back and forth for prices they choose and make *good* items inaccessible to starting players and non-farming players. This encouraging other lower level players to start farming themselves ...further raising the price of items. etc...... **A vicious circle**

Riders are players who play the game to have fun get good items at collectors and buy stuff when they can (which is almost never because of farmer prices). These ppl are actually happy and whenever there *is* a nerf they don't even notice it (I belong to that group). I'm not going to even *try* collecting 100k for a perfect upgrade.

Anet will not nerf to kill their own game, they have dozens of people thinking of the pros and cons and they will do what they think is good for *all* players and the game itself not just for a class of people .

It's like giving a kid medecine, you might not want it but you need it.

**mommy knows best**

actualyl ive noticed quite the opposite. there With the traders as far as NPC's ecto and shard prices rise and fall, buy for the most part im seeing items selling for less and less with each passing time. Im not saying everyone go solo monk uw or griffons or drakes, but think about this........

youre at the store and they have just released a new version of your favorite RPG. its 49.99 since its new. ok fine you buy it. after its marketed a while and the market has a lot of em, you see them for 39.99, 29.99, etc... over periods of time unti lthe supply/demand/profitability of this item will stabalize. While we may not encourage ppl to farm, everyone has the right to play the game they paid money for however they want too and eventually (especially now with everyone wanting a green item) youll see the prices on prup and gold items drop. Purple items used to go for WAY much more than u can buy them for now.......

It depends if people buy from traders or if they buy it from other players who sell it at least 100+g cheaper. Player's who can't sell their items to other players just sell em to traders thus diminishing the prices further.

Since less and less people are in need/want those objects they are selling for less and less.

But if there would be a fad or a *popular* thing it would just start augmenting crazilly until it dies down again.

back to subject:Materialism is Bad Bad Bad!

What I can never understand is this - if you don't participate in the market, why do you care about prices of items and people having a load of money?

Like you yourself said, these aren't game-essential like unlocking skills / having proper armour for your area et al, but are merely icings on the cake, and that you chose specifically not to partake in them. Other people do though, so demand for these perfect items exist and prices aren't cheap, which is of course natural. Yet you somehow expect the rest of the world to bend to you whenever you feel like dipping into the market and sell it at what you deem reasonable prices? It isn't as if farming is effortless, nor is it restricted to a very specific subset of the Guild Wars population. Anyone can farm, all it takes is time and effort. If you can't be bothered to farm, then don't begrudge others who put in the time/effort to do so.

I've never agreed with the extremely high prices for some of my dream items (basically anything crossing 100K). Are they necessary? Nope, my present gear is fine as is. Do I still want them? Of course! But I try my best not to complain about it, and instead strive to work for it, unlike people who expect items to be served to them on a silver platter to them.

I like to think I do not participate in the market as *much* as others do.

But I'm not going to just deprive myself of everything to just farm for hours and hours to get the bestess best weapon in the game in one shot.

What I find sad is that no one even sells 1 point under perfect items or radom 13-18 mods anymore they are only interested by 20% and only ! 20%. It makes lower level characters and players unable to climb that quality ladder and forces them to farm continually to get something half-decent.

*That* is what Icare about.

(I'd like to know where you got that idea from, I was saying I am modest and don't strive for the best.)


(Who? Me? I don't sell stuff for ridiculous prices! Where did you hear that?
Oh ! And I don't expect the world to bend to me....WTF?)

I never said farming was effortless. I appreciate people's intelligence and ingenuity when it comes to finding money and making builds.
I just don't like ppl doing it over and over again just to sell then do it again sell, again, sell.

Some farmers already have everything they want. They just farm to sell, farm to sell, farm to sell........etc...

Yes I do think that higher than 100k for perfect upgrades and Items is ridiculous (You can count that as complaining)

But what I REALLY find stupid is a 1 point below perfect item/upgrade selling for peanuts.

Now THAT is stupid!

Let's buy em all
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P.S Next time do not take a quote and write as if you are addressing the quoted person. It feels to me as if you are talking to me disrespecfully and rudely and i have absolutely no idea what half of the stuff you're talking about has to do with my post!

Actually I was addressing your post, just that I'm lazy to go split up the section into various quotes

Nobody said that farming everything in one short was a solution. I'm not the best person to approach for GW financial advice per se, but it stands to reason that savings = income - expenditure. If you don't spend much/any at all, even just casual farming (30 mins to an hr a day) will eventually net you some sum of money. All it takes is patience. Like I said previously, since these items aren't needed, they're a goal to work towards. You don't have to achieve it overnight, but if you keep grinding (because honestly, that's what it is) at it, you'll hit there eventually.

As for not-so-perfect mods, I don't know where you've been, but post-SF update, there are sellers of them everywhere, from Droknar's to Augury to Yaks. This place has a forum where you see plenty of such sales going on daily. And with the new chests, non-perfect mods are even easier to obtain.Prices are dropping, which is good for any player, casual or not. And contrary to what you state, this makes it even easier for players to climb the level.

Coincidentally, you never mentioned anything about this in the post that I was replying too, and I quote
which tends to give the impression that you disdain the market and that you expect things to be sold to you much cheaper than market rate if you ever wanted it.

As for why people sell... well.. if there's a demand, there has to be a supply doesn't it? This one is pretty much obvious, besides, whether they do have everything they want or not is something decided by they themselves really.

All im gonna say is why nerf something that was fine to begin with...So what if someone could solo, more will power to them...if someone has the amount of reasorces and capabilties of soloing let them do so...they deserve it for working hard...But in the long run...who cares its just a game

Elite=JHF=

Hilarious really. I posted about senseless nerfs and got an anti reaction... and now people are whining about Anet nerfing? WTH? I posted something like this about Anet nerfing for every little whine they get in PvP, since I do not PvE much. And now I read this?! Hysterical, that I get anti reaction to my Anet nerf post with commesnt like: Anet is just helping everyone be creative and suck it up. So now I repay the favor. Anet is helping "solo" builds in PvE to be creative so suck it up.

Sadly I just ready every last one of these posts here and I really hate myself. I think that nerfing solo builds is retarded. This game is a multiplayer game yes but there are many other games like that. I am the type of gamer that likes to do things on my own. If I need help yes I will get it or if I want to group with a couple people to talk yes I will group but I have more fun going around on my own. And now you don't get shit going around solo and you get even less in a group and I really just want to delete this off of my computer but as soon as I beat it I think I will. Its made for new players now so they can have fun but the experienced players are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed over because of this. It limits our gameplaying fun and makes it an all-around shitty game to play.

Sigh.....I love how it's always the anti-farmers running around with
Fissure armor dyed out the ass weilding UW and FoW weapons.

Where do you think the brunt of most ecto/shards come from people?
It's not from large groups, because the drop rate is near nil then.
It's not from Alt+F4. It's from farmers.

You people bash them like they were stealing from the collection plate
and pissing on the altar, when in fact most of the quality items in the
game exist because of them. Farmers get the materials/items most people
don't take the time to hunt for.

It's where gold storms/eternals/crystalines/eternal shields come from.
It's where your precious ecto/shards come from.

Really, the only reason you probably see this much bitching about it is
that you probably invited some invincimonk to party and they turned you
down. It's something for Mo players to do outside of keeping everyone
else's sorry ass alive. Leave them be.

What a strange change of character...

Had you not implied that these "nerfs" where a challenge for you?

And if anything why there should be farmers without a balance? Have you played other MMORPGS and find out how the economy becomes due to these same 'farmers'? Have you played an MMORPG where things cost insanely more then they should thanks once more to these 'farmers'?


I could also state Ive seen the same economical hell in WoW from one of my friends who happens to be *gasp* a WoW farmer. Not only is he filthy rich in gold he tends to sell things in high gold rate prices who are then bought by other rich people only. What happens to the 'poor' people then? Nothing. They aren't 'unique' nor have that power unless they discover farming too which then triggers a vicious circle.

I am sure as hell I don't want that happen here. However what I would say however is DO IT THE OPPOSITE WAY! Anet wants to encourage team play? Then let teams get an increase percentage in drops. And I dont mean with Henchmen I mean with actual people. While solo people dont get as much rare drops.

Wow, someone actually read my post. [/heart]
I suppose I should clarify, I have no problem with the nerfs and
countermeasures thrown up by Anet. It weeds out the crappy
farmers and encourages changing tactics and strategy. You have
to actually use your head to clear a solo smite run nowadays.

My problem is with the people that scream for additional nerfs
to the farmers because they don't have a char slot free to make
one/don't have the patience to farm. My problem is with people
who tack the high price of....everything on the farmers. Without
thinking that maybe..just...maybe...people are inherently greedy.

I've played a few MMO's besides this. And trust me, these prices
are nothing. There's really only one item in this entire game that
could go for more than 1 million gp. Try Ragnarok sometime. 1 million
is cheap for most items....

In summation, my problem isn't with Anet continuing to nerf solo
builds, it's people that think they're above farming/above paying
a price they don't like for something they want.

Im aware of RO econmy due to the merchants

Conquer also has a similar problem. Items there could go for billions of gold, due in part to auto robot farmers.

The thing is there should be a diffrent approach. One that instead of rewarding solo farmers reward team farmers. Or isn't Anet constantly spewing this is a team based game and whatnot? Then show it! Let teams gain bonuses for exp and rare drops!

I agree to a point, and seeing as how I have work in a few hours
this will be my last post before I get some sleep. If you wanna discuss
it further hit me up in game sometime.

The problem I can see with what you're suggesting is not so much
the system, but the players themselves. It's the real variable out of
which all problems stem. You have leavers/lag-outers, people who wanna
buy something you just picked up off the ground despite the fact you're
in the middle of fighting and can't negotiate so they leave/ people that
don't wait for regen and rush in and get everyone killed before they can
pick up their items, etc.

I've tried small team farming in the past. I've tried 3-4 person smites,
then downgraded (back when prot bond was king) to 2-3 person, then
2 person, and now it's pretty much just me. The drops are no better with
a 3-4 person group than with an 8. Which is what you're getting at.
However, even 1 person drops suck a better part of the time. Aside from
that juicy 3+ ecto run you had to do 17 runs before to get to, there's
no consistent gain. Unless something drops an unid gold storm or something
I either salvage everything or take it to Ascalon City and give it away to
new players.

If the drops were more party friendly I could see farming backing off some,
but it will never die completely.

The game was designet to skill>items>time spend.
The solomonk ruined the eco. Runeprices raised to insane 50K and on the other hand inflation of gold.
Is this the way you want to welcome new players ? Like :
"sorry. but playing a monk and having sup runes any other class can have cheap REQUIRES you to spend hours farming with another of your chars first, just to get/buy the runes then?." Now dont complain about... "ououuou my runes are nothing worth now"... serves you right!

No question : something had to be done.
The Invincy monk wasnt usable in PvP anyway. It had only one purpose :
changing TIME (and not skill/Teamplay) into Gold.

An other option for ANet : adding creeps with a lot of disenchants to any map, ruining any other enchantment-heavy-build just to eleminate ONE build and unballance the game in another way ? nop.

If you wanna get "status symbols" , "rewards for TIME", be "King of best golditems/Armors" etc... go home to your diablo2-Forum and buy some duped 290s... or make d&b&m-runs. Im happy ANets keeps the game as it was intended to be :

- "newcomer-friendly"
- skill > time
- instant fun/action > items/gold

babies NEED babysitting. Good job Anet.

Fissure armor was meant for long-year-players, and not for "6 weeks 24/7 doing nothing else then farming-idiots".

Topic : I agree, add something something like 4players = 1.3x drops, or 8 players = 1.5x drops.

I understand that point however I still insist that Anet should allow Parties to gain extra bonus for exp,rare and gold drops as a bonus for being in a team rather then opposed to being solo farming. I also agree some party members are lout ignorants, whose greed works against them. You see I believe firmly in the Nash Economics Theory that doing what is best for the group will indeed be better then the Smith Theory that everyone out for themselves.

This is meant to be a group game. I still solo farm once in a while but in places that will only generate a moderate sum (1 to 1.5 plat only per run) so I can be able to buy my skills.

Guys, i can see where you are all coming from and you all have very good points.

I completly agree about the whole dnt nerf the build thing. And Wtf... jesus prott bond got raped big time...

but heres your problem plain and simple and heres why Anet act like they do.

RAtio of good players to noobs
Good -very little : Noobs- A Bloody lot
Where are they gona make more profit- with the minute amout of good players or helping out with the noob players.

Ask yourself do u want to make money or dont you?

Zades~

Ahh yes the solo vs anti solo debate continues. I still say its so simple: Reward party farming, but dont "nerf" solo ones either just make it less rewarding then party farming.

Solo Farming X% chance
Part Farming X%*Y OR X%+Y% bonus per team unit

/signed

stop punnishing me for being in a group, increase the rate of drops when in a HUMAN party, (not henchies)

Well, this brings forth another can of worms. What's wrong with using henchies? I'm sorry, but when I bought the game, while it says "Free Online Play," nowhere did it specify that I HAD to join PUGs. Henchmen were put in the game for a reason, the same reason that EVERY online game puts them there...there are always loners. But those loners also BUY GAMES.

I agree that the drop rates in groups need to be altered, I grant you that. I have seen the disproportion there and agree that it is a change that needs to be implemented. But what I don't understand is why so many people are so against soloing of anykind (pure solo builds or those like me who may from time to time take my ranger out with a hench only party).

And a pre-emptive strike here...to those who come back with the worn and tired "it's a MMORPG game and continue to specify multiplayer." This moniker does NOT imply that I have to play with groups. It implies that many people play it online and that there is an online community, that's it. Sure teamplay is great and probably part of the developers' plan, but I daresay they never intended for everyone to always play with a PUG. If so, eliminate henchmen, add auto grouping in mission areas, and make minimum team number requirements before being able to leave towns or outposts.

I paid for the game just like everyone else. As long as there are henchmen, I have the right to play with them as opposed to getting one of those dreaded horrifying PUGs.

flying solo with henchies are a group, its the ones who go actually alone are the solos who ppl hate. Right now soloist dont bother me too much cause some I know do it for armor (the expensive ones of course), and if there selling weapons and crap I usually dont buy it because I can probably find it myself by the time I make the amount they want. "Patience is a Virtue"

I too think the drop rates for groups should be better than they are, personnally I prefer questing with a group rather than solo farming as I find it tedious, but surely the solution is simple - when there's a rare drop like a gold or ecto then one the same is allocatted to everyone in the party, this way people can still solo if they so choose, but those in groups aren't penalished for being in a group, because as it stands the allocations are unfair anyway - one person could get 4 or 5 good drops a trip and the rest nothing.

I'm not saying make the rare drops common, just give everyone in the party the same drop when it happens - eg. Smite drops 1 ecto for a solo player, 5 for a group of 5 trappers, 8 for a group of 8 doing the quests. No one is then penalished for the way they choose/prefer to play the game. Shouldn't be hard to implement as quest item drops are done this way.

I think itemdrops are only 1 aspect of soloing. I like to solo because its exiting to find a build that works. And it makes me feel more like being in charge

A better hench AI would be usefull too. When I get to a mission, lets say Thunderkeep, I want to do it at once, instantly, without any delay, and I want it to be over in an hour, not having to repeat it for whatever reason. For me the need of gathering a party necessary to advance to the next part of the map is one of the worst things in the game. So I solo as much as I can. And when I solo I like to have my party as small as possible. Yes, its nice to find some stuff too

When reading Anet responses on this topic I generally see these comments:
-Soloing is ok as long as it it does not spoil the economy.
-Builds may never get so strong that they domminate pvp games.

I would counter this with:
-Economy is only important if there are great items to obtain, something this game does not have. The solutions build in to solve the ruined rune economy (monk solo build) seem to work well, and can eventually be repeated.
-Most solo builds are no good at all in pvp. In fact we are talking about differend games.

So lets start treating pvp and pve as differend games. Remove the tons of counter magic poisoning monster groups and start using the maps to create some fun. Add mini dungeons, allow players to discover hidden places, add NPC's, little villages, and so on. Make it more like a rpg adventure. Allow players to find some solo builds... Builds that don't mess up pvp. Developpers in control: Build up instead of nerfing!

After reading so many responses in this thread and several other around the Net I have to agree with the Anti-nerf persuasion. I agree that there are some glitches on skills that actually did not work as intended. Fix those. I grant you that.

I am not an elite player. I do have a level 20 warior/monk that I constantly change my skill set on depending on the types of creatures I'm going to be fighting (PVE). IF I can solo an area I usually do simply becasue the XP and drops are so much better that way. Also, while henchies do serve a purpose they cannot get you through every mission. Or if they can I simply do not know how to control them well enough yet. At any rate... If one joins a party and does missions or just explores the world outside the towns, one will notice that "joe bob" seems to get a ton of the better items (i was that joe bob once) while "GI Jane" (* those names were completely made up) is healing or fighting for scraps. That should be fixed. Don't take away from the players that are aspiring to keep the game interesting for themselves by making that oh so powerful character to solo with. Every super powerful build has a huge weakness. That's why you can set up your skills depending on the area you are in and the creatures you will be up against.

Sadly I will have to say that if they keep nerfing the skills and builds that are proven to be effective, I will discontinue my playing of guild wars. So far I have created a monk that can solo some simple area though he is still very young. I made him because I needed a break from the usual hack and slash play style of my warrior. Now they are steadily making the monk less and less effective. I don't mind switching skills out and changing/adapting my build, but lets be reasonable.

Stop wasting peoples time by cripling those VERY hard earned and time consuming builds we know and love just because other people abuse them to some extent.

I'm just a causual player and by no means elite. I play for fun but I have a goal of what I want my chars to be. I'm already starting to see my goals fading away. It takes too long to make/build that perfect Char. Who has the time to reinvent when they find something that works for their playing style?

Just my 2 cents.