Is frenzy still viable with so much smiting?
ElderAtronach
Simple question, looking for a simple answer. I've never run a warrior primary in tombs, so I wouldn't know about how well they fare there... with so much smiting going on, you're bound to get hit by AoE most of the time right? Just wanted to get some perspective from an experienced warrior type.
Sagius Truthbarron
Most people just use Tiger's Fury and skills that don't make you take more damage. I haven't heard of someone using Frenzy in awhile. Like since pre-searing XD
But, then again, I've never really used a build that required it before.
But, then again, I've never really used a build that required it before.
ElderAtronach
Apparently you've never read the build discussion forums. I would like input from actual experience. The less theorycraft the better please.
MCS
I'll give someone a dollar to delete this thread before it turns into another Frenzy vs TF thread.
Not only is it viable it remains the only choice. If they use smiting as defensive (putting on monks you're attacking) then it's only taking pressure off your monks. If they use it as offensive getting hit with the occasional double damage balth as he runs by isn't going to hurt too much.
Not only is it viable it remains the only choice. If they use smiting as defensive (putting on monks you're attacking) then it's only taking pressure off your monks. If they use it as offensive getting hit with the occasional double damage balth as he runs by isn't going to hurt too much.
Racthoh
Tack on 2 superior runes and make sure you have a constant protective spirit up. 
If the group is organized enough, then yeah Frenzy is fine. Just make sure you inform your group that your using it so they know to watch out for it. Also, have a fallback stance that just in case you run into someone smiting you can quickly take it off.
If all else, watch what skills they're using and if you see them using smiting, just hold off on the frenzy.
If the group is organized enough, then yeah Frenzy is fine. Just make sure you inform your group that your using it so they know to watch out for it. Also, have a fallback stance that just in case you run into someone smiting you can quickly take it off.
If all else, watch what skills they're using and if you see them using smiting, just hold off on the frenzy.
Sarus
Since every warrior should alwasy be using BOTH sprint AND frenzy you will in almost all cases be fine. Sprint is an obvious must to catch up to running monks (the only kind there are as far as I can tell) and frenzy is a must for the increased damage and adrenaline gain. If you find yourself in the middle of a frenzy bout and all of the sudden smiting goes up just use sprint to cancel it.
There are of course certain cases where you do not want to use frenzy.
There are of course certain cases where you do not want to use frenzy.
- Avoid frenzy against smiting groups until the smiters have been identified or neutralized.
- Avoid frenzy against air spike groups where you will have no warning before getting spiked out with frenzy up.
- Avoid frenzy against downright awful groups that attempt to kill you before the monks.
Arkayne
My Warrior build has used Frenzy and is loving it. It only lasts 8 seconds, so you use it for a big burst of damage/adrenaline, then if you're getting beat on, it will run out quickly and you'll just have to be careful how you use it. Balthazar's Aura/Zealots Fire and all those crazy smiting skills are definatly the bane to the Frenzy build, but when I see those numbers come up, I either just don't use Frenzy, or pick a new target.
Syno Nym
We had two warriors with frenzy yesterday in tombs, and it was ok (we didn't lose to a single smite group), despite of all these smite groups (almost 95% of the teams... 
).
Our warriors only died one time because they forgot to hit Sprint when a smiter used his skills on the monk. But if you have good reflexes, there's no problem.
).Our warriors only died one time because they forgot to hit Sprint when a smiter used his skills on the monk. But if you have good reflexes, there's no problem.
Krank
Answer to your question is
Berserkers stance
Berserkers stance
LoneDust
That is not a good answer. Berserker's stance is very situational. There are builds where you can fit in regular attacks between skill spikes. Berserker's will stop when you start using the skills and your spiking damage will not be as fast as they could be.
Mhydrian
Use frenzy if you want to die. I used to bring frenzy and hover my mouse pointer over a defense stance, trying to catch myself before I got creamed. Its just too risky, the only thing a warrior has going for it is its ability to survive, you completely destroy that by using frenzy.
You cant turn off fenzy without another stance, and there are many many times you dont want to be walking around with double damage going. If you play 4 on 4 random, you dont want to use frenzy. War vs War fights are commonplace there, people are more likely to target a war. And in general a very good percentage of teams you face will have warriors.
The only situation I MIGHT use frenzy is with a hammer warrior, and Im trying to take down a non-smiter monk. Just pray someone doesnt try to help the monk while you are vulnerable.
You cant turn off fenzy without another stance, and there are many many times you dont want to be walking around with double damage going. If you play 4 on 4 random, you dont want to use frenzy. War vs War fights are commonplace there, people are more likely to target a war. And in general a very good percentage of teams you face will have warriors.
The only situation I MIGHT use frenzy is with a hammer warrior, and Im trying to take down a non-smiter monk. Just pray someone doesnt try to help the monk while you are vulnerable.
Warskull
Mhyd, 4v4 random, 4v4 teams, and ToPK are entirely different games though. I agree fenzy is much more risky in 4v4 (where you are far more likely to get noticed and targeted.)
The edge you have in 8v8 is that it takes an extremely coordinated team to notice and spike a frenzied warrior. It almost never happens unless the warrior does something very stupid.
The edge you have in 8v8 is that it takes an extremely coordinated team to notice and spike a frenzied warrior. It almost never happens unless the warrior does something very stupid.
Sagius Truthbarron
Oops. sorry, I don't cut cookies very much in Tombs.
Nash
MCS and Sarus' posts are the ones to pay attention to in this thread. Consider the question answered.
wolfy3455
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Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Use frenzy if you want to die. I used to bring frenzy and hover my mouse pointer over a defense stance, trying to catch myself before I got creamed. Its just too risky, the only thing a warrior has going for it is its ability to survive, you completely destroy that by using frenzy.
You cant turn off fenzy without another stance, and there are many many times you dont want to be walking around with double damage going. If you play 4 on 4 random, you dont want to use frenzy. War vs War fights are commonplace there, people are more likely to target a war. And in general a very good percentage of teams you face will have warriors. The only situation I MIGHT use frenzy is with a hammer warrior, and Im trying to take down a non-smiter monk. Just pray someone doesnt try to help the monk while you are vulnerable. |
Tigris Of Gaul
Using Frenzy makes you a slightly weaker caster, for the period you do use it. So should people not bring casters unless "they want to die"?
Eonwe
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Originally Posted by Nash
MCS and Sarus' posts are the ones to pay attention to in this thread. Consider the question answered.
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Savio
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Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul
Using Frenzy makes you a slightly weaker caster, for the period you do use it. So should people not bring casters unless "they want to die"?
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In which case, I second Eonwe and hope this thread gets closed before another flame war breaks out.
Eonwe
Tigris was just comparing the amount of damage you'd take while under frenzy to what a normal 60 AL caster would take if he was being spiked. It is about the same.
IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by Krank
Answer to your question is
Berserkers stance |
Phades
What he meant was that you recieve slightly more damage than a caster AL would against attacks that do not bypass AL.
Eonwe
Hopefully the people who are suggesting Berserker Stance do realize that the large cooldown time and inability to spike with it do make it a skill that you want to stay away from if you're a warrior that actually wants to kill things. Leave that skill in the trash bin, where it belongs .
.
IlikeGW
Not at all true, beserker's is great if you want to use high adrenaline skills, and you don't suffer a damage penalty with it
Tigris Of Gaul
But you can't use it with skills. The more time it takes to pull off your combos is more time for the monks to react.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Phades
What he meant was that you recieve slightly more damage than a caster AL would against attacks that do not bypass AL.
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Calibretto_9
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Originally Posted by Eonwe
Hopefully the people who are suggesting Berserker Stance do realize that the large cooldown time and inability to spike with it do make it a skill that you want to stay away from if you're a warrior that actually wants to kill things. Leave that skill in the trash bin, where it belongs
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On the other hand Eonwe is right when it comes to larger matches. In any kind of "big" battle, you won't be targeted, and if you are, who cares. Just throw on sprint (Heck, you'll probably need in anyways since people quickly learn to run from warriors in frenzy) and you're good to go. And the sheer healing ability in larger matches makes sure that the double damage won't be anything to worry about. I just think that sometimes people forget the smaller 4 vs 4 matches exist, and to be frank, I think they're quite enjoyable every now and then. Hard to find a newbless match, but when you do 4 on 4 requires entirely different strategies, and in random it is fun to have to immediately form a strategy with what you have. Just my 2 cents. =)
Eonwe
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
Not at all true, beserker's is great if you want to use high adrenaline skills, and you don't suffer a damage penalty with it
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Edit: I can also see where some of you are coming from since you probably do random arena, and the double damage from frenzy in random arena with the possiblity of having no monk support isn't too hot. But, I really don't consider random arena to be "competitive" pvp. So when I make posts, I base it on any type of competitive situation where you have some type of team build. I could care less about random arena.
Loki Gladius
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Originally Posted by Eonwe
No, actually what I said was very true. What you said on the other hand, isn't. Frenzy is just as good for gaining adrenaline, and you're able to spike better with it, thus you get more kills.
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For 5-10 seconds, you attack 33% faster than normal and gain 20% more Adrenaline each time you hit in melee. Berserker Stance ends if you use a skill.
Great skill for charging up Adrenaline attacks, been using it ever since ive found it.
Tigris Of Gaul
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Originally Posted by Loki Gladius
Berserkers Stance:
For 5-10 seconds, you attack 33% faster than normal and gain 20% more Adrenaline each time you hit in melee. Berserker Stance ends if you use a skill. Great skill for charging up Adrenaline attacks, been using it ever since ive found it. |
Loki Gladius
Aye, 4 second recharge can be handy for a 1v1 situation, but ive much rather have a Berserkers Stance to charge up me Adren attacks when being attacked by numerous targets.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Loki Gladius
Aye, 4 second recharge can be handy for a 1v1 situation, but ive much rather have a Berserkers Stance to charge up me Adren attacks when being attacked by numerous targets.
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Legendary Battousai
Frenzy is good for a target that you are attacking that is being healed a lot. You should probably call it out when you use frenzy, and tell your team [monks] before you enter the mission that you will use it so they know to keep a close eye on your hp. Frenzy, like someone said before, is probably best in the hands of a hammer warrior. IMO Tigers Fury should be for R/W only because you cant keep up tigers fury for an extended time, you gain about 7 energy every 10 seconds and every 10 seconds you lose 10 energy, so eventually you will run dry. For R/W, you gain 10 energy in 10 seconds, and only lose about 7 energy when you cast it [expertise]. Still, it is useful. But Frenzy is a gamble, like everything else, and many people like to gamble with everything else. Just remember its only a game, try it out, see how you like it and if it works out, you found something you like.
Ensign
In response to the original poster - smiting has a minimal effect, if any, upon Warriors. Under most circumstances smiting is used upon Warriors who are up in the middle of your casters - your Warriors are as far away from that as possible. They take small amounts of splashed smiting damage, but even that usually comes when they're chasing down a Monk and they have Sprint on.
I can see smiting being a potential problem if you're running 3+ Warriors on the same target - then it starts to make sense to smite the Monk and chase off those Warriors. Of course builds with more than two Warriors on the same target have all sorts of problems already - body blocking your teammates for the lose.
Peace,
-CxE
I can see smiting being a potential problem if you're running 3+ Warriors on the same target - then it starts to make sense to smite the Monk and chase off those Warriors. Of course builds with more than two Warriors on the same target have all sorts of problems already - body blocking your teammates for the lose.
Peace,
-CxE
ElderAtronach
Thanks Ensign, that's all I needed to know.
Mhydrian
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Originally Posted by wolfy3455
In general, all you fight in RT is paladins and sword warriors with gladiators. Most of the time, I feel safe using frenzy against a sword warrior 1 v 1. If they use gladiators, just stop attacking them, maybe run around them with sprint for ten seconds.
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Im my experience frenzying against a good sword warrior, you would be crazy to let him get you anywhere near 50% health, where a final thrust does double damage anyways, then add frenzy double damage.
neoflame
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Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Im really good but sometimes its very easy to swing through gladiators a few times especially when you dont know he has it.
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I personally wouldn't run TF outside of Arenas.
LifeInfusion
lmao. I used berserker stance once and I swore never to use it again. The recharge is TERRIBLE, better off with For great Justice
Santanus_Perro
Why not flurry? You give up a couple seconds of increased attack speed, but you don't have to worry about the damage done to you while in a fight.
ICURADik
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Originally Posted by Blackace
Hi my name is For Great Justice, and when I'm playing with my friends Frenzy and Eviscerate I make Berserker Stance look like shit. Have a nice day!
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Ensign
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Originally Posted by ICURADik
You realize FGJ is bugged and only 150% adrenaline.
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Originally Posted by ICURADik
I don't see it as a maintainable option in the least on a warrior primary.
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Peace,
-CxE