Battle Rage needs good timing. Trying not sparking off a whole Frenzy vs. Battle Rage pointless flaming.
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Need a good axe W/R build for tombs
UberRusty
thekolman
Battle Rage is lackluster for PvP, sorry. Ya, you can have a constant 25% speed increase, but your damage output is going to be extremely lower then what it could be. The 2x adrenaline gain is going to be countered by the fact that you can't use it with Eviscerate or Devastating Hammer.
Also, you have to keep using your adrenaline to keep Battle Rage up. If you miss-time it you are screwed. When I started playing warrior in PvP I used Battle Rage thinking it owned, but the damage output is just not good.
Battle Rage {E} is one of the rare skills that few people here like because damage is all people see with a warrior.
Well, what else is a warrior good for then? Tanking? If you are serious about playing a warrior in PvP, you should design your build around doing as much damage as possible.
People I've fought [the smart ones anyway] run when they see Eviscerate hit and under frenzy, I'm not catching the Storm Chaser, Windborne Speed, Sprinter, etc...
Then use sprint, that's why you have it. If the monk is using Storm Chaser or Windborne Speed, first laugh at him because he has those skills in his skill bar in the first place, then kill one of his teammates while the monk is running halfway around the map. Smart warriors don't have any problems with runners.
Snares are cool things as well, someone else on your team could help you with that. There's no need to use Battle Rage just to deal with runners.
Also, you have to keep using your adrenaline to keep Battle Rage up. If you miss-time it you are screwed. When I started playing warrior in PvP I used Battle Rage thinking it owned, but the damage output is just not good.
Battle Rage {E} is one of the rare skills that few people here like because damage is all people see with a warrior.
Well, what else is a warrior good for then? Tanking? If you are serious about playing a warrior in PvP, you should design your build around doing as much damage as possible.
People I've fought [the smart ones anyway] run when they see Eviscerate hit and under frenzy, I'm not catching the Storm Chaser, Windborne Speed, Sprinter, etc...
Then use sprint, that's why you have it. If the monk is using Storm Chaser or Windborne Speed, first laugh at him because he has those skills in his skill bar in the first place, then kill one of his teammates while the monk is running halfway around the map. Smart warriors don't have any problems with runners.
Snares are cool things as well, someone else on your team could help you with that. There's no need to use Battle Rage just to deal with runners.
Icuradik2
Isn't there a decent way to parse damage(I've seen a link before)?... I usually try to base my builds on intelligent application of theorycraft, but many times you realize that something is much harder to use in actual practice than on paper. BR seems like one of those skills where, you say "ohh on paper this does 12 less dps" but in game it would be quite useful as many targets actually run constantly, use ward against foes, snare, etc... and you will be using Sprint over Frenzy a large part of the time anyway.
Puddin Tame
I don't have 16 axe as I haven't unlocked superior rune yet. But, hey, that's what this character is for.
Axe rake is in there to semi-prevent running, but for some reason I never see the cripple working when I use it.... Unless everyone in random hits condition removal right when I use it....
Plus, with BR, I am out of faction from unlocking eviscerate and a few axe upgrades and am too lazy to change my secondary back to warrior and go cap it.
Now, what would do more damage, higher strength for AP, or a boosted SoH. As right now it's 10 strength and +7 from SoH.
Axe rake is in there to semi-prevent running, but for some reason I never see the cripple working when I use it.... Unless everyone in random hits condition removal right when I use it....
Plus, with BR, I am out of faction from unlocking eviscerate and a few axe upgrades and am too lazy to change my secondary back to warrior and go cap it.
Now, what would do more damage, higher strength for AP, or a boosted SoH. As right now it's 10 strength and +7 from SoH.
derrtyboy69
i personally LOVE battle rage. if any enemy is running away it is nice to have a constant sprint that never ever ends. for me it goes like this: start battle rage, get adrenaline, complete my combo once or twice, then recharge it.
one great elite is skull crack. if you can land skull crack on a monk (which can be difficult do to the nearly instant cast of most monk spells) that monk is pretty useless for 15 seconds
one great elite is skull crack. if you can land skull crack on a monk (which can be difficult do to the nearly instant cast of most monk spells) that monk is pretty useless for 15 seconds
UberRusty
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Puddin Tame
Damn it... whenever I state my build in an 'LFG' message, everyone started yelling OMG N00B FRENZY IS T3H SUX0RZ. I did find one group where it worked very well, though.
Iraqalypse Now
when you run battle rage, you can't effectively use eviscerate, fear me, res sig, or frenzy... also, battle rage tends to make you dig deeply into attack skills when what you really want to do is run the four or five most effective warrior damage skills then bring utility for the rest... strength of honor, battle rage, 5 adrenal attacks and swift chop might be O.K. at damage, but frenzy, sprint, eviscerate, executioner's strike is better at damage in many situations and has the room to bring fear me, drain enchantment, and ressig.
Eonwe
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Originally Posted by Puddin Tame
Damn it... whenever I state my build in an 'LFG' message, everyone started yelling OMG N00B FRENZY IS T3H SUX0RZ. I did find one group where it worked very well, though.
Eh, unfortunately most of the people that you'll run into while doing pick up groups for tombs have no clue at all.
Darc.Syde
people arent seeing why battle rage is good. battle rage doesnt always have to lead to dmg. think of how many disrupting chops you can do with battle rage, and still do good dmg with executioners.
dmg isnt all a warrior is locked into. be disruptive...
dmg isnt all a warrior is locked into. be disruptive...
Icuradik2
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Originally Posted by Eonwe
Eh, unfortunately most of the people that you'll run into while doing pick up groups for tombs have no clue at all.
Same with those winning the halls. Damn noobs using TF. I wish they would stop countering my mass noob smite perfectly.
Lews
omfg.... dmg isn't the end all of all warriors?
*flew right over my head*
*flew right over my head*
Puddin Tame
Just made a W/R to try and get a quick group.... it went.. err... worse than frenzy+SoH.
I found myself constantly out of energy and just not being as effection as I was with frenzy+SoH. The double damage thing didn't matter, as my team (with another W/R) got owned too bad anyway.
I found myself constantly out of energy and just not being as effection as I was with frenzy+SoH. The double damage thing didn't matter, as my team (with another W/R) got owned too bad anyway.
Bast
You can use W/R and TF, but you're locking yourself into using Zealous instead of Vampiric, and you're also spreading out attributes, losing a useful secondary class for a bad one, and becoming subpar.
Frenzy is free attribute-wise and costs half the energy TF does. The only difference is you have to have brains and prediction/observation skills to use it.
Frenzy is free attribute-wise and costs half the energy TF does. The only difference is you have to have brains and prediction/observation skills to use it.
Puddin Tame
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Originally Posted by Bast
You can use W/R and TF, but you're locking yourself into using Zealous instead of Vampiric, and you're also spreading out attributes, losing a useful secondary class for a bad one, and becoming subpar.
Frenzy is free attribute-wise and costs half the energy TF does. The only difference is you have to have brains and prediction/observation skills to use it. Tell that to tombs district 1...
Anyway, I use a zealous to keep up with SoH. If I used vampiric, I wouldn't be able to maintain it, and do 4 less damage per hit.
Frenzy is free attribute-wise and costs half the energy TF does. The only difference is you have to have brains and prediction/observation skills to use it. Tell that to tombs district 1...
Anyway, I use a zealous to keep up with SoH. If I used vampiric, I wouldn't be able to maintain it, and do 4 less damage per hit.
Nash
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Originally Posted by Puddin Tame
Now, what would do more damage, higher strength for AP, or a boosted SoH. As right now it's 10 strength and +7 from SoH.
Smiting wins, no contest.
UberRusty
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dmg isnt all a warrior is locked into. be disruptive... Exactly, building up aldrenaline might be a TAD bit slower (but not really, once BR is up it's faster than your Frenzy or TF), and you still do good damage. Just no Eviscerate combo. =(
Boofhead
Well, FWIW, I don't think tiger's fury is as terrible as everyone says it is.
Xan Tritus
a nice little combo in this order of use is, healing breeze, frenzy THEN berserker stance, using the two together, but leaving berserker stance till after you have activated frenzy 
, it works, good for taking out weaker opponents quickly, its not very effective against air ele's though, they just counter all you melee
, it works, good for taking out weaker opponents quickly, its not very effective against air ele's though, they just counter all you melee
Eonwe
You shouldn't be running Healing Breeze in the first place, let alone two attack speed buffs that are both stances.
sandman1
well im using w/m running protective spirit + frenzy
u still get hit harder on lower dmg attacks but ele air/obsidian spikes,ect will not hit for 200ish (40ish hp depending on your max health)
at 8 protection protective spirit lasts like 16-17secs?(not sure at work atm)
more than enuf for 2 frenzys
u still get hit harder on lower dmg attacks but ele air/obsidian spikes,ect will not hit for 200ish (40ish hp depending on your max health)
at 8 protection protective spirit lasts like 16-17secs?(not sure at work atm)
more than enuf for 2 frenzys
Puddin Tame
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Originally Posted by Xylaphone
What is your beef with him? It's nice to occasionally have a different slant than the preconcived notions of many iQer's.
Well, no one said they worship the ground iQ walks on or anything, but how many times have the people using W/R's won HoH, and how many times has iQ?
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors)
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors)
White Designs
Acutally, I see W/R in the hall quite often. And people with it do win since I do see it on the holding teams sometimes.
It still sucks though.
It still sucks though.
Xylaphone
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Originally Posted by Puddin Tame
Well, no one said they worship the ground iQ walks on or anything, but how many times have the people using W/R's won HoH, and how many times has iQ?
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors) Uhh, W/R are in Halls all the time.... I haven't see iQ win during peak hours in quite some time.
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors) Uhh, W/R are in Halls all the time.... I haven't see iQ win during peak hours in quite some time.
Eonwe
If you use that logic people will be saying that malaise and wither are good because someone that was using them won the hall.
Bast
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Originally Posted by White Designs
Acutally, I see W/R in the hall quite often. And people with it do win since I do see it on the holding teams sometimes.
It still sucks though. People driving Honda Civics win races sometimes (usually when the other driver isn't racing). Doesn't make a Civic a racecar though.
It still sucks though. People driving Honda Civics win races sometimes (usually when the other driver isn't racing). Doesn't make a Civic a racecar though.
White Designs
I did say it sucked, Bast 
My point was that winning the hall can be done with sub-par stuff lots of times, and its not a good thing to use to determine what's good and what's not.
I kick out the W/R all the time
My point was that winning the hall can be done with sub-par stuff lots of times, and its not a good thing to use to determine what's good and what's not.
I kick out the W/R all the time
Enigmatics
Just to clarify... KD/AS warriors NEED a 9 second Beserker's Stance to pull off a speedy Backbreaker. Frenzy and Flurry are pointless in that aspect, but you can keep using them.
Eonwe
I still don't think that's a good reason to justify the use of berserker stance, ever. On top of that devastating hammer remains the best hammer elite and the only one that should be used on a primary hammer warrior imo.
Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy. In either case the extra 3 strikes of adrenaline slows down your knocklocks immensely and makes the combo generally not worth it. Backbreaker is a skill that I'd want to run on a Warrior secondary to make up for the lack of Stonefist Gauntlets, if I ran a secondary Hammer Warrior. I stole that from ensign :| .
Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy. In either case the extra 3 strikes of adrenaline slows down your knocklocks immensely and makes the combo generally not worth it. Backbreaker is a skill that I'd want to run on a Warrior secondary to make up for the lack of Stonefist Gauntlets, if I ran a secondary Hammer Warrior. I stole that from ensign :| .
Tigris Of Gaul
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Originally Posted by Eonwe
Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy.
This part I'm not really understanding. Devastating Hammer -> Hammer Bash is the same knockdown length (maybe less) as Backbreaker -> Hammer Bash right?
Zeru
BB is 4seconds because it's stupidly not affected by stone gauntlets.
Hammer bash/Dhammer/any other kd but gale is 3sec with gauntlets.
What he means is this:
Devastating hammer+1.75cooldown, then attack, another 1.75s cooldown then attack.
Devastating hammer lasts for 3sec. 2 attacks will take 3.5s.
Monks can only get in 1 spell of <.5s, which is basically prot spirit divine intervention or reversal, that won't get interrupted by the second knockdown.
With backbreaker it's this:
BB+1.75scool, attack,+1.75cool, attack,+1.75,cool, kd. Obviously that won't work. You don't have any attack between 4s and 5.25s.
Frenzy will make it 1.16s. So 4 hits will take 4.67s. Or enough for the monk to get in an orison.
If you want BB to work properly, you have to do this:
Attack, 1.75, frenzy, attack, 1.16s, attack, 1.16s, kd.
That way it's barely over 4s.
Hammer bash/Dhammer/any other kd but gale is 3sec with gauntlets.
What he means is this:
Devastating hammer+1.75cooldown, then attack, another 1.75s cooldown then attack.
Devastating hammer lasts for 3sec. 2 attacks will take 3.5s.
Monks can only get in 1 spell of <.5s, which is basically prot spirit divine intervention or reversal, that won't get interrupted by the second knockdown.
With backbreaker it's this:
BB+1.75scool, attack,+1.75cool, attack,+1.75,cool, kd. Obviously that won't work. You don't have any attack between 4s and 5.25s.
Frenzy will make it 1.16s. So 4 hits will take 4.67s. Or enough for the monk to get in an orison.
If you want BB to work properly, you have to do this:
Attack, 1.75, frenzy, attack, 1.16s, attack, 1.16s, kd.
That way it's barely over 4s.
Enigmatics
Ugh... I didn't know it was 3 seconds. But if Devastating Hammer+Crushing Blow+Aftershock works, then I'll amend my earlier reasons for using Backbreaker.
EDIT: the combo works. Never mind then, that's 1 extra second for 3 extra adrenaline. Seems nice on paper, but it really doesn't have any point.
EDIT: the combo works. Never mind then, that's 1 extra second for 3 extra adrenaline. Seems nice on paper, but it really doesn't have any point.
LoneDust
OT: Aftershock is something else. It has a long aftercast and if you can't deliver a killing damage with AS, you'll be force to just stay frozen while your target gets heal/casts heals. (unless of course, you have an smite emo helping you)
UberRusty
Aftershock is pointless in Tombs if your team takes out the target before you even cast Aftershock. And after you cast Aftershock, not much energy for a while.
Puddin Tame
The difference between having a W/R using TF and a W/X using frenzy will seldom decide the fate of a battle. But it may very well be the difference between a flawless victory or just a plain old boring win. It definitely helps.
Someone told me that SoH was for the E/Mo's to put on you. But just how many maintained enchantments can they take? An axe warrior with a zealous axe can maintain it much better, and that extra energy for your monk could very well mean life or death (in game o_O) especially with NR down (yes, it is still very useful against enchant heavy builds).
Someone told me that SoH was for the E/Mo's to put on you. But just how many maintained enchantments can they take? An axe warrior with a zealous axe can maintain it much better, and that extra energy for your monk could very well mean life or death (in game o_O) especially with NR down (yes, it is still very useful against enchant heavy builds).
Eonwe
Putting soh on the smiter is an option, but he can use his extra slots for better purposes, especially when the warrior, if he wants to, can just maintain it himself without a problem. I also don't seeing using frenzy or TF being the difference between a flawless victory and a normal one, sorry. I also wouldn't say that NR is still *very* useful against heavy enchantment builds, since you can just chop it down as soon as you see it.
cookiehoarder
Fluuuuuuuuuuuuryyyyyyyyy!!!!!
I like both Frenzy and TF. I prefer TF though. It's just my opinion.
I like both Frenzy and TF. I prefer TF though. It's just my opinion.
Nash
Personal preference doesn't win games.