Warrior Roles: are we all just modified dmg?

After spending many enjoyable times here at Guru, I've read and read and asked questions, chewed through articles, read from both noobs and 'pros' alike...

And all seem to be pointing in one direction.

Warrior: is ignored all the time, and must ONLY DO AS MUCH DMG AS POSSIBLE...

Do we warriors have no other role? Is any other role a warrior is capable of using JUST NOT worth it due to the fact that other classes supposedly have an edge over us in anything BUT damage?

I've tried many times and sadly, NOBODY is going to try and say otherwise. It's like all warrior's may as well be warrior pure builds [with no 2ndary builds] since, "oh, you should only do as much damage as possible..."

My most important question regarding this is... With this much supposedly 'good' advice, do you think it'd be a good idea for every warrior in existance to stop being what they like and just follow 'damage is God' motto just for efficiency's sake?

(this is in notes of pvp since in pve, tanking is usually brain-dead easy...)

Sure there's the Blackout W/Me, but outside that, there's REALLY no other warrior build out there that doesn't just drop everything and do just damage... [sounds kinda nooby, one side, and elitist at the same time...]

I've always been in favor of both damage and disruption builds on a warrior. [and thankfully, one of my 'near perfect' builds has a soft and sexy supple blend of both...]

But lately, "DAMAGE ONLY SINCE EVERYONE IGNORES YOU..."

What's your thoughts on this question/theory?

This is PvP right?
Let's see....
They uhhh... err... wai-, no....
I guess hammer warriors can sort of interrupt, with the knockdown and that. A few conditions (deep wound, bleeding, cripple, apply poison + cyclone axe/hundred blades). But then again, rangers would make better poisoners, cripplers, and possibly bleeders than warriors.
Well, errr... Maybe a team of W/Mo's can stay alive until the other teams quit?

hmm, I disagree.

Warrior/Monk: Tank
Warrior/Ele: Hammer+Aftershock combo and knockdown
Warrior/Mesmer: Blackout
Warrior/Ranger: Pets/with a monk - balthazar's aura (plus you can throw some points in for troll uguent. Allocate points in beast mastery, swords, wilderness, and tactics or whatever).

I think they have their uses.

This was meant for PvP, for all the good tanking does there. W/Me was mentioned.
All the rest are just damage.

I have seen hammer+aftershock dominate in PVP, as have I seen balth's aura on pets do the same.

Knockdown isn't for interruption, I've learned that knockdown PROBABLY has the most dmg output in the game from a well built secondary profession.

Knockdown Aftershock
[or my fav]
Knockdown Holy Strike

Easily beats other weapons in the fact that the target you've chosen CAN'T do anything to retaliate and has to rely solely on a teammate monk's help [who, if your team knows what's up, is probably flat on his ass as well...]

No tanking builds please, I mentioned that already, purely from a pvp standpoint
[16 weaponry is a must... - iQ]

That just proves my point. And what a billion other elite people are saying. The ONLY reason any Warrior would do that to their weapon skill is to just that... The most damage possible.

Everything [or at least the majority] of things I've read for a warrior in pvp is ONLY about damage. It's as if Wars truely don't have any other role in this game... A 'noob' warrior is one that doesn't do just damage it seems... [at least that's what I think the elitist guilds are saying. Unless you're a damage oriented Warrior in pvp, you suck...]

I'm just wondering if that's true, then warriors truely are, at least in pvp, the most one-dimensional, simpleminded, any-idiot-can-make-it-work, type of class, and frankly, that's a shame... at least to me it is... Especially since all the supposed [expert] guilds are saying this...

I love my w/mo KD/HS toon. Ton of damage, four different kd skills, plus distracting blow (no damage, but disrupts a skill). I take no healing whatsoever. Attribute points is in hammer, strength and smite (bane signet & holy strike)

counter blow
devastating hammer
crushing blow
heavy blow
bane signet
holy strike
distracting blow
rez sig

I agree. 90% out there is damage dealing warriors, and i also agree that there are other roles for warrior.

I've developed some warrior builds for my clanmates that actually dont do so much damage, but just beacause the build is intended to work differently.

Instead of using pure weaponry and strength, i've worked on at least 3 different builds wich depend on Tactics, a low requirement weapon (allowing you to give your normal attacks max damage without using so many points) and using those points on several secondary professions.

I agree its simpleminded to think warriors are only out there to do max damage. Even when the warrior low energy pool can seem crippling there are lots of skills and items that can help you get a warrior a decent energy pool to use some very nice skills.

Those combos are out there, just in front of us, it just requires to sit down a bit, knowing the skills and how they work, and doing some homework on how this skills can work with other classes skills.

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path..."

I'm working on my Warrior/Necro to find a good PvP build. Still working on it as I use a hammer and the lack of energy limits my options. I'll figure out a way.

You're not helping any. In fact, you're one of the billions of people this thread is writing about... I know how to do high dmg warrior builds... The idea is, does that mean if you don't, you suck as a warrior?

I think there is much to be said for the Anit-Warrior Warrior, aka MeatShield, aka Defensive Tank. Playing in PvE, it seems many many Warriors DONT know how to proporly Tank. A Warriors true role should be as a tactician with a few specific damage skills to use opportunisticly. If you want high damage output, go with an Ele.

Well, how about this, what would you like us to say it does?

Oh yea, sure, warriors are great at healing.
Did I mention they're also great at exploiting corpses and attacking from a distance?

I am helping. I am showing that a warrior can be more than max dmg. He can effectively shut down a character and still do some great damage. All I have heard from PvPers is warriors suck because we can't do enough damage. I am showing we can do great damage and be effective in shutting someone down. Thank you for ignoring the overall context of my post.

Yes, rend/strip enchantments on those tanking Mo/W's that you see even more than you ever saw W/Mo before!

Balanced stance takes care of hammer warriors nicely and my warrior eats them for lunch before balanced stance wears off, key is "tactics" and DPS. If you've got them in running mode not much chance for them to be knocking you down or doing anything else. There's 150 skills between two classes, I don't think anyone has really analyzed them all yet to determine that warriors should be pure warriors only, there's plenty of main and 2ndary combos that make for better dps than just plain ole warrior class.

I admit..... I'm a dps warrior. In GvG damage warriors dominate. Well, at least the few dozen matches our guild have fought. In PvP, I can only speculate. I like using whirlwind and had it on my skillbar until I switched my secondary. But ultimately, I have never felt a need to be other than a dps build. Even with gladiator armor, it only adds a few points, and the regen is slower than dog. So I don't really waste my time trying to be a spell caster with big arms... lol

Little thought there, I've used a build similar to yours and it outputs A LOT of extremely devastating hp ripping skills. If you made a build that didn't do THAT much damage, I'd actually notice you're shutting them down... However, the fact that you're coupling damage with shutdown is a good sign, still, you're still falling into the theory of this thread... You're still just another form of STUPIDLY HIGH damage...

edit* So far, it seems that everyone STILL thinks that a warrior without ridiculously high damage output is bad. [at least everyone who's posted in this thread...] I personally have made condition running warriors who fare pretty well, however, there's still the notion that damage is everything. [and yes, I understand hammers shut you down, I've probably played this game longer than you *unless you're an alpha tester*] But hammers have the HIGHEST damage ceiling and if you're critting a lot due to 16 hammer mastery, then yeah, you're damage is still extremely high dmg and thus your warrior is non-noob... [to the elitists at least...]

Through the tactics skills, a warrior can effectively turn a caster into a tank for a short time. That takes some pressure off a monk. If the caster's attacker is not the called target, the warrior also allows the caster and the rest of the group to continue working against the called target or to go after the attacker. If the warrior is very good, it can shut that attacker down while pounding hell out of it, essentially waging an effective offense on two fronts. In an emergency, Charge also can get a couple characters' chestnuts out of the fire.

It may be a simple endeavor to deal great damage as a warrior. To hold the front line so that your ranged attackers and healers can do their thing with minimal hassle while also using your endurance and tactics to protect them takes some truly three-dimensional play and a warrior.

As you can see in my post, i agree with you. Warriors can do others things than dps or being massive damage dealers.
I just dont like generalization. Thats all.

I have fun with my W/Me. She disrupts and he cranks out the damage. I run with 20E yet I never have an E problem and can disrupt my target as fast as my skills recharge.

I forget my exact attributes, but it is something like:
Axe: 16
Strength: 9
Inspiration: around 6
Domination: around 9 or so.

Power Drain
Power Leak
Leech Signet
Cleave {E}
Executioner's Strike
Sprint
Warrior's Cunning
Rez Signet

Kinky...

Sorry, just had to say that.

There's a thread in build discussions about effective W/Mes. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=53768

However, is there any other combination that doesn't focus on damage dealing?

In truth, the classes that are meant to attack (elementalist, warrior, ranger) mostly focus on damage. I admit, there are more utility builds for the other two, but really, that's because the other two have range as flexibility along with many obviously branching skill trees (elementalist with different elements, and ranger with disruption, tanking, damage, etc. all pretty obviously there and have good synergy) while warriors have damage skills and nice little utility skills thrown in here and there. That's my opinion at least, I suppose others might have a different perspective.


But that's the thing, warriors have high armor and have to close in. They can be ignored for a time to focus on other enemies, so they are.

To actually be a tank (i.e. actually draw fire), which seems to be the gist of your "other role", you have to do enough damage to actually be noticed--which again, brings it all back to damage.

havent read though the second half of the posts here(seems like more then a few are a bit long winded). anyway, a major(or should-be ) is disruptor warrior. thie is for GvG only. most teams bring 2 monks, and when ones a prot, it is not easy to take down either. this is where my build comes in. between hammer skills and dwarven battle stance, its not hard to completly keep a monk out of the game(and possibly just kill).

I have to be honest: I *like* the fact that Warriors in Guild Wars are capable of dealing massive amounts of damage. It's a breath of fresh air from other MMOs where Warriors are nothing but tanks, soaking up damage and "taunting" foes for aggro while the Rogues deal a crapload of damage by stabbing someone in the back with a knife. Right. Like his dagger in the back is going to do more damage than my AXE THROUGH HIS SKULL.

But I'm not bitter.

Still, despite the fact that i play a hammer-based, knockdown-happy, damage-dealing Warrior (whose only Necro skill is Plague Touch so I can get rid of blindness by myself), I like to play around with other build ideas, and I've come up with several Warrior builds that I think could be quite effective as non-damage machines.

To start with: Warrior/Necro. While Necro skills tend to be quite energy-heavy -- a bad thing for Warriors -- if you spend your Elite to take Offering of Blood you can renew energy yourself. From there, you can use a lot of the blood sacrifice skills fairly efficiently; as it happens, since Warriors *are* commonly ignored in combat, your own Health isn't quite as big of a problem, so sacrificing a bit of it here and there isn't such a bad thing. I think Warriors can make some of the greatest health sacrificers around. Ad Blood Ritual to the mix so you can help your allies with their own Energy Regen, and you've got a great support character who can keep his own energy at a decent level, help other peoples' energy regeneration, and you have enough defense to keep yourself on your toes should something go sour.

That's just one example of a Warrior build that I think could make a great support role for a party. Warriors can also use their Tactics skills like "Watch Yourself!" and "Shields Up!" to be a support character and be effective. Just because the "top-ranking" Guilds think Warriors need to fit in to a certain mold doesn't mean Warriors have to. And for all of those top-ranking guilds who ignore Warriors at the start of a fight because they're not "top priority', your Warrior has the added benefit of going under the radar, which makes him even *more* effective at what he does. With the right skills, he can make the Monks and Mesmers a lot more difficult to kill, which can buy your party valuable time.

I've basically learned to ignore what the elitists in MMOs talk about. They're always bent on a single "perfect" ideal for any given character class, and I am positive that other builds can be effective in ways that those lugheads never imagined.

accually there i a spike team of w/n out there that is pure nasty. it was built when natures was dominating. it was made to use only conditions. they used virulence chillibans and plague touch with fear me.

they would stack the conditions and then surround 1 target and use fear me over and over. usually hitting at least 2 people with some good energy denial.

haven't seen it around in a while.

My salute to you Munkwunk!

/salute

and to Torkemada...

And to leave this thread behind [and do some HoH runs as the most annoying warrior evar... I leave with this build...]

Swift Chop
Dismember
Axe Rake
Disrupting Chop
Victory is Mine! {E}
Rush
Plague Touch
Rend Enchantments

Back to basics...

Since we seem to be talking about other roles for Warrior, I'll let you in on a strategy that worked for my Guild for awhile. We've changed builds so it won't do you any good should we meet in GvG! lol! We would send out 1 Hammer Warrior in full Gold Fissure armor just swinging and bashing and drawing as much attention as he could while our other 2 Warriors (dressed down in the plainest Forge armor they had would follow just far enough behind to catch anybody to smart for the bait! If they took it they wound up pounding on a full Tactics tank (the hammer does enough damage to draw attention on its own) while the two following Warriors were max damage dealers. Add a monk trinity with a nuker and a R/Me doing poison+epidemic and everyone enjoyed a real good time. Kinda an obvious ploy but it worked more often than not. Personally, I love to tank. Damage is nice but I prefer being indestructable to being uber-powerful. Makes my monks life easy and keeps the other guys frustrated.

Im new to warrior GW gaming, bit I found a fun way to play warrior/necro PvE using "I Will Avenge You!" and Lvl 1 animate bone horrors focusing primary on speed and adrenaline pumping than damage.
I hate stances like flurry and frenzy that give faster attack rate but a negative effect. I use my death magic on level 0 to raise only lvl 1 bone horrors that die quickly or use them with Dark Bond to take damage for me. 4 bone horrors die in a flash giving me 40 seconds of +6 health regeneration and 33% faster attack. More bone horrors dead +10 seconds more The rest I leave for adrenaline skills cause they pump fast and no need for energy. Anyways PvE only

Played only half the skills for W/N so will try to finish it with all the skills available, hope there is a nice combination for PvP/PvE combined. For the thread sake Attack Speed above all!

You're obviously a pve junkie because your setup is the wrong one for pvp. However, I'm curious as to how the heck you get the energy to keep summoning.

Here is a build that my guild uses with great success in GvG. We have the warriors on our team for energy denial. We have many times successfully denied most of the enemy team of energy completely. What we do is have a necro run a blood build with the skill Dark Fury. This gives our Warriors basically unlimited adrenaline. We combine that with 'For Great Justice'. This essentially allows us to use our adrenal skills constanly. And I when I say constantly, I mean continuous usage. So with our two or three warriors each using 'Fear Me' each and every second, all the enemies in the area are losing about 6-9 energy a second. This shuts down people on their team so effectively it is awesome. With out some means to regain energy on their team via a BiP'er, Offering of Blood, or inspiration skills, they basically are useless.

So yes, Warriors are good at other things besides damage. But, I do have to say that this build would be very ineffective without Dark Fury. Dark Fury would also have to come from a Primary necro on your team due to the low energy pool of the warrior.

Anybody who says in PvE that warriors are just damage machines should show you what they've been smoking.

The classic PvE warrior running like a madman into battle becomes a suicide ticket later in the game when monsters drop meteors and meteor showers on you or ice imps clobber you with Rust and Water Magic so you barely move and Healing Signet sucks.

If you even want to play around with spells at all, you basically should cast one big spell per battle before running into combat. Warriors don't have the energy to drop tons of spells and constantly clicking spell buttons will prove more of a distraction in battle than anything else.

I use W/Mo monk spells as special moves and ideally don't click very much while fighting monsters if the casters are doing their jobs.

There's no comparison. Even with high weapon mastery, later in the game when you're still doing 20-25 DMG per hit vs. all but the most armored of foes, a smiting monk can beat you on that with 20+ Balth's aura to EVERYONE per second ignoring armor.

Warriors are not damage machines. Your main job is to be a tough target for the monsters, and throw in a little something on the side like healing, nuking (rarely), or hexes just to help the team, and spend the rest of the time hacking and slashing.

It would seem like it as to PvP if you are a War/Mo you are the person who does thse the ressing with restorelife only in the tomps though.To those who posted a build like this where is your self heal there is a War/Mes like this as well.

How could you have forgotten fear me warriors? Most powerful energy denial there is.


To the poster above: you shouldn't take self heal, or restore life.

edit: oh, nm, clonmac didn't forget! I'll just second what he said then.

Ele eh..... too bad now that they nerfed AE eles are worse than they already were. Ele is spike, overall damage is mediocre at best

The best your gonna get is an attunement air ele... moderate to upper damage given they don't get stripped. I can think of quite a few warriors builds that outdamage any ele build in pve.

Pvp can be different, no war can spike like a good ele but overtime its no contest.