Questions about Backfire / Storm Riders

Just a couple of questions concerning backfire.. inspired by my elementalist fighting some Wind rider's...

1. Anyone know how high Storm Rider's have the Fast Cast attribute?

I ask because I just ran into a situation where I aggro'ed 1 storm rider and had backfire cast on me in like 1 second - it felt like it wast instant backfire. I was watching their bar and the backfire image came up and I straight away had backfire cast on me... This happened on and off.. ie some would cast really fast, while others were close to 3 seconds cast.

Either some of them have very high Fast Cast.. or I was lagging and never realized it... but Backfire is a 3 second cast spell.. but SR are mesmer's.. so with high FC they could easily get it off in ~1.5-1.8 seconds...

2. Just when does backfire activate?

i had a repeating situation which really puzzled me.. I was taking damage from backfire when I felt I shouldn't have.. lemmie explain.

I spotted a SR, ran up and atatcked it and then cast Fireball at it. I went through the cast timer and animation.. the spell went off and just as the spell struck the WR I got zapped with backfire.. and then took 56 damage from it.. even though I was already halfway through a wand atatck animation..

Which to me says I was either lagged (I wasn't experiencing any other lag effect's and wasn't even rubberbanding..) or backfire still effects you as long as their is a spell animation/effect still being played out. Because this happened a few times where I'd cast a spell with no backfire, start a wand attack animation as the previous spell struck.. get zapped with backfire and take damage from the spell I'd just casted..

3. Why does ANet hate players playing elementalist's with henchies? LOL

Seriously.. it's actually quitre funny.. going through Pockmark Flats with my elementalist.. 90% of the critter's there are Wind Rider's... which of course makes me useless once they cast backfire on me.. technically I could use condition removal.. but what if the elementalist isn't E/Mo? My only condition removal is via my monk secondary... and Alesia doesn't have condition removal.. so anyone trying to play Elementalist there without condition removal is either useless or has to take damage casting spells and hope that Alesia can heal them fast enough... and don't forget that at that stage (unless they have been run places) the only condition removal spell they will have by then has a 20 second recast.. so chances are they'll be backfired again and again before they can recast condition removal..

but what makes me laugh is when I went through as my W/Mo.. I saw way more stone elemental's than WR's... and of course stone elemental's are more problematic for warrior since they like to blind.. which makes a warrior uselesss... and once again Alesia doesn't have condition removal.. which means I'd again have to draw on my Monk secondary to remove blindness...

But blindness didn't really bother me that much.. however being backfired basically every single fight.. which would force me to bring condition removal.. heck I've tried that and just had backfire cast on me right away.. and then have to wait 20 seconds to recast it... just to have the next wind rider recast backfire on me yet again.. pfft!

Ah wells.. saved me energy tho.. heh. But damn it took ages to kill those group's of wind riders when I basically could only attack with my wand.. pfft!

Ahem.. but this is all of a sidetrack.. my real isse is with point's 1 & 2.. I'd love to know if anyone knows how high Wind Rider's have their Fast Cast attribute.. and just when does backfire actually activate?

edit - I know I have mixed the names up. my apologies ;/

AFAIK, Backfire activates on the completion of the casting of the spell. Completion *could* mean when the spell's effects hit the desired target, or it could mean when the caster enters the post-cast phase. Based on what you describe, barring lag, it seems that the backfire damage occurs when the effect hits the target.

Also, Backfire is a hex, so condition removal won't touch it. You need a hex remover.

Hmm anoter backfire question. I should probably know this by now but if I use a hex removal on me when I have backfire does it damage me?

Yes it does do dmg just like diversion works on your self hex removes

You think Backfire is bad? Try Clumsiness every time you try to attack. But with my W/Me, I get my Backfire off first. Heh...

AFAIK, clumsiness only works on the next attack and is gone after that.

Empathy works over multiple attacks.

I was only referring to the Storm Kin used. They cast Clumsiness, and in groups will cast it in quick succession. They don't use Empathy, or at least don't think enough to put it on my Warrior. They also won't put Backfire on my Warrior either, only Power Leaking him. Maybe the OP was referring to Wind Riders, which I haven't fought in a while.

sledgeunderhill - duh! your right, Backfire is a Hex. Which means I have absolutely no method to remove it. Which if you ask me is a bit unfair.. to give critter's a spell/hex that players at that point in the game have no hope of removing as they wouldn't have access to hex remover.

To illustrate.. monk remove hex skills..

Purge Signet - only available in fishermans Haven
Remove Hex - Northern Shiverpeaks (quest) or Lion's Arch (trainer)
Contemplation of Purity - Maguuma Jungle (quest) or Amnoon Oasis (trainer)
Convert Hexes - Rankor Camp only, and is not self-targetable.
Smite Hex - Maguuma jungle (quest) or Amnoon Oasis (trainer)

So yeah, lovely game.. makes you face a whole slew of creature's which cast spells on you that you can't do anything about till you hit Northern Shiverpeaks..

And it does seem that backfire will trigger at the end of a spell, purely based on what I've experienced.. which is taking damage right at the end of the spell..

Savio - I laugh when playing my W/Mo when critters clumsy me.. it doesn't slow me down one bit.. and if they clumsy me as one of my spell-casters.. I just stop attacking with a wand and just spam spells instead

What does bug me is Cry of Frustration.. especially when cast and I have unfortunetly gotten bogged down in a tough fight and rely'ing on skills to kill and/or defend.. really annoying when my W/Mo goes to use Wath Yourself! to save Alesia.. and gets zapped with CoF! grrr!

are u sure it wasn't cry of frustration, i know later on the kin mobs in wilds use it, i don't remember if the riders do... also even if it is backfire (im starting to remember the same thing.. omg why is he casting backfire so fast..) you would be surprised how much faster 1.5 seconds is compared to 3 seconds when casting a spell. I originally ran 5 or 6 fast cast on my mesmer, and then upped it to 9-10 and its a huge difference in pvp battles. Its funny how so many ppl won't invite a mesmer, yet the most annoying parts of many missions are where mesmer mobs are hexing the hell out of your group...

I used to hate all riders... until I got a mesemer primary who casts backfire suddely, they killed themselves.

Best thing to do if its on you though, is to not cast.

Alesia is a healer not protector, so.. she'll heal you but not remove anything. Best advice would be to team up with a mesmer for those sections of the game where you'll face other mesmers.

Sajittarius - I'm sure it was Backfire, as I had the (-56 Backfire) pop over my head when I cast a spell.. and they had the backfire name & icon under their name when they cast it. I also know what CoF does when it zaps a skill.. and that didn't happen. My Elementalist is still in Ascalon area.. and I don't believe the Kin there have CoF...

Most people don't like Mesmer's simply because they don't know how they work. The problem is that Mesmer's aren't direct damage dealer's - ie they don't cast big flashy spells like an elementalist or swing weapon's like a warrior does.. this means that a whole slew of people are completely ignorant of how mesmer's damage critters... and forget shutting down anything.. they just think they are all big and goody cuz they killed things fast *rolls eyes*

Reminds me of the few PUG's I went in with my N/Mo.. took a selection of damage and support spells. Did I ever get thanked or noticed for what I was doing even once? Well the monk in one of the PUG's thanked me for supporting him... but no-one bothered to notice the curses and AoE damage and such that I was doing every fight. All they could do was say congrats to the warrior's & elementalist's.. with occasional word of thanks to the monk.. pfft... and people wonder why I prefer henchies...

So yeah, they don't invite mesmer's because what meser's do isn't obvious .. it isn't right slap bang in your face what your doing.. like a firestorm is... but I'm degressing.. hehehe

lg5000 - lol you cast backfire on them and they died trying to backfire you? LOL now that is amusing

Thats just what I do... just wand attack till Backfire expires.. gotta sadmit in a heated battle it can be nice to get energy back... but to get backfired right from the start is annoying and slows me down.. blah... at least till they start backfiring alesia.. hahahahaha

and about Alesia... I can imagine the complaining if the Henchoes had skills we didn't have access too! hehe

So yeah, they don't invite mesmer's because what meser's do isn't obvious .. it isn't right slap bang in your face what your doing.. like a firestorm is... but I'm degressing.. hehehe

Hehe... found out how effective mesmers can be doing riverside province.. with henchies due to.. lack of group. Without a mesmer, it's hell as I found out trying to do it with my warrior. (Empathy). So I think next time round, I'm not going to join a group, but start one, and demand a mesmer and a necro.

*edit: yup and everything else they tried. My fast casting was rather high right from the start.

When playing with henchies the key is learning how to manipulate them so they are the primary attackers, it takes some practice but can be done and you won't have backfire cast on you, it'll be cast on another henchie. So practice more manipulating your henchies it's all in how you pull.

Watch Yourself! is a shout, which means it's instantaneous. How can it be CoF'ed, which has a 3/4 second cast time? Those Storm Kin must have pretty good reaction times...

Savio - heh, it has happened that they cast CoF right as I was going to use WY! I usually get it off though.. so it's no big deal really. just annoying as hell. I put it down to pot luck really.. they were prolly trying to get Alesia with it and instead timed it just to get me instead.. pfft! LOL

Red Sonya - heh I know, there's plenty of ways of working with the henchies and their AI (or lack of it *coughs*Alesia*coughs*). I'm a whole lot better now than when I first started playing GW.. back then I had no clue what I was doing or how to pull or work with henchies.. I was your a-typical "rush blindly in" type player... no wonder my initial E/Mo died so much.. LOL

gotta say I'm doing a whole lot better now that I know how to work with henchies. And btw, even sending in the henchies first I'm still getting backfired.. usually after I decimate a few of them with spells tho.. hehehe by that time I don't care tho as the backfire = time to regain energy.. LOL

lg5000 - Riverside.. this mission with my W/Mo was a real PITA! In the end I had to do it twice.. silly wipe due to silly henchies deciding to aggro more than I wanted... pfft! LOL

but yep, Mesmer's can be a real pain and do quite a lot of damage and stuff, just not obvious. You know whats funny.. is I've seen people whine in-game about mesmer classes creature's.. but refuse to even think of taking a memser with them in a mission... What was truly sad was one person was griping that his party got wiped by a group with a few memser critter's in it.. but then went on to say "Mesmer's are useless!" when a mesmer offered to help him through the mission..

pfft! i couldn't help myself and told him that if mesmer's were so useless.... how come his group had been wiped out at by a group with mesmer's? (and he'd been wiped out at same point twice).. I mean.. how stupid.. to complain that mesmer critters are too powerful but then claim memser's are useless.. pfft!

Damn! I've been diverted from the topic yet again.. *looks around for the evil, evil Mesmer responsible for this*

*hides*

Uh... _Storm_ Riders, that's like in the desert, isn't it? You must surely have shatter hex then?

Fwiw, the only problem I've had with stormrider type monsters, is that the earlier ones (ie the wind riders around the lagoon in maguuma jungle) spam cry of frustration. It's completely impossible to get off any spell which takes longer than a second to cast against a group of them. Some of them also have hex breaker, so if you manage to cast backfire and hit one of those, you'll take about 50 points damage...

The storm riders in the desert don't interrupt as much, and I've never had a problem with them unless I take on more than 4-5. Archane echo + backfire FTW!

you know the best way to deal with the riders? just kill em. get the warrior to kill em since they dont cast empathy. but if they cast CoF, let the nuker get em. you still get off the spell when u have backfire u just take damage. and i saw what youe second profession is kamatsu a monk secondary. when u take damage from BF just heal up! use healing breeze so u gain regen when youre taking damage from backfire.