Everyone knows how annoying 8 vampiric spiders can be in the Maguuma Jungle. This team is that on steroids x 3. How could an opposing team counter the following 8 players constant 68 dmg Vampiric Gazes that are cast from the distance of a ranger?
Enemy Team:
8 N/Me
Soul Reaping (Max+3)
Blood Magic (Max+4)
Max Energy Armor
Max Energy Staff
Before encounter, Energy Regen is +10 for 10 seconds which covers for their entire setup cost. Max soul reaping, Blood Ritual, mimic'd Blood is power{E} or Offering of blood{E} keeps them going.
After using Echo{E} triple setup and Arcane Mimicry for the Elite, their Skill bars are:
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Awaken the Blood
Blood Ritual
Blood is Power{E}
Rend Enchant
Rez
Some can Mimic Echo{E} for four Vampiric Gazes in the skill bar. N/Me's typically can have 60 energy, which will be enough for plenty of Vamp Gaze casting.
Counters?
Counter 8x68 dmg Vamp Gazes Pvp?
[email protected]
Racthoh
Spellbreaker? 
Well protective spirit would make it so 10 are required to kill. So you'd have to cast 10, and in that time I'm sure the monks would be able to recover from the first wave of 8.
Well protective spirit would make it so 10 are required to kill. So you'd have to cast 10, and in that time I'm sure the monks would be able to recover from the first wave of 8.
Mercury Angel
Vampiric Gaze isn't going to be enough self-healing when you're under focus fire back.
The energy management will net at most 24 extra energy over 12 seconds, 24 if you recast before Arcane Mimicry ends.
I really don't see how this team build is going to be able to maintain the damage long enough to take out the other team, let alone survive.
The energy management will net at most 24 extra energy over 12 seconds, 24 if you recast before Arcane Mimicry ends.
I really don't see how this team build is going to be able to maintain the damage long enough to take out the other team, let alone survive.
Zeru
You have no way to keep a focused target alive.
Arathorn5000
fairly sure spell breaker does not affect life steal damage
Moltov joss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathorn5000
fairly sure spell breaker does not affect life steal damage
It does not affect damage period. It prevents enemies from targeting you with spells like vampiric gaze for example.
rii
vampiric gaze is a skill not a spell. therefore, sb will not work methinks.
BrokenSymmetry
Vampiric Gaze is a spell, and Vampiric Touch is a skill. So Gaze is affected by Spellbreaker, but Touch is not. Also, Touch does slightly more damage. However, with Touch it's impossible to focus on a single target with more than 2 or 3.
Nash
Eh, Vampiric Gaze. If you really want to spike someone you'd use Lightning Orb or so... And we all know how well spiking groups work...
Spura
What a dumb idea. Seriously, why would you want to use gaze or even touch(body blocking your own team ftw)??? Steals are total crap in any serious pvp. You could make 100 topics where you go: 8 people using (insert 60+ damage skill) FTW.
Vamp gaze is pretty horrible in that regard. Spamming Signet of Judgement from 8 monks would be WAY WAY WAY better:
- Costs no energy
- Damage is AoE, you can kill multiple targets at once
- Harder to interrupt
Vamp gaze is pretty horrible in that regard. Spamming Signet of Judgement from 8 monks would be WAY WAY WAY better:
- Costs no energy
- Damage is AoE, you can kill multiple targets at once
- Harder to interrupt
Ishamael Sedai
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Everyone knows how annoying 8 vampiric spiders can be in the Maguuma Jungle. This team is that on steroids x 3. How could an opposing team counter the following 8 players constant 68 dmg Vampiric Gazes that are cast from the distance of a ranger?
Enemy Team:
8 N/Me
Soul Reaping (Max+3)
Blood Magic (Max+4)
Max Energy Armor
Max Energy Staff
Before encounter, Energy Regen is +10 for 10 seconds which covers for their entire setup cost. Max soul reaping, Blood Ritual, mimic'd Blood is power{E} or Offering of blood{E} keeps them going.
After using Echo{E} triple setup and Arcane Mimicry for the Elite, their Skill bars are:
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Awaken the Blood
Blood Ritual
Blood is Power{E}
Rend Enchant
Rez
Some can Mimic Echo{E} for four Vampiric Gazes in the skill bar. N/Me's typically can have 60 energy, which will be enough for plenty of Vamp Gaze casting.
Counters?
healing...
Enemy Team:
8 N/Me
Soul Reaping (Max+3)
Blood Magic (Max+4)
Max Energy Armor
Max Energy Staff
Before encounter, Energy Regen is +10 for 10 seconds which covers for their entire setup cost. Max soul reaping, Blood Ritual, mimic'd Blood is power{E} or Offering of blood{E} keeps them going.
After using Echo{E} triple setup and Arcane Mimicry for the Elite, their Skill bars are:
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Awaken the Blood
Blood Ritual
Blood is Power{E}
Rend Enchant
Rez
Some can Mimic Echo{E} for four Vampiric Gazes in the skill bar. N/Me's typically can have 60 energy, which will be enough for plenty of Vamp Gaze casting.
Counters?
healing...
film
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spura
What a dumb idea. Seriously, why would you want to use gaze or even touch(body blocking your own team ftw)??? Steals are total crap in any serious pvp. You could make 100 topics where you go: 8 people using (insert 60+ damage skill) FTW.
Vamp gaze is pretty horrible in that regard. Spamming Signet of Judgement from 8 monks would be WAY WAY WAY better:
- Costs no energy
- Damage is AoE, you can kill multiple targets at once
- Harder to interrupt
just have to point out how wrong you are.... sig of judgement is not an aoe attack, has a 2 second cast compared to the 1 second cast of vamp gaze making it more likely to be interupted, then compare the 5 second recharge of vamp gaze to the 45 second recharge of sig of judgement.... i think we got a winner.
Vamp gaze is pretty horrible in that regard. Spamming Signet of Judgement from 8 monks would be WAY WAY WAY better:
- Costs no energy
- Damage is AoE, you can kill multiple targets at once
- Harder to interrupt
just have to point out how wrong you are.... sig of judgement is not an aoe attack, has a 2 second cast compared to the 1 second cast of vamp gaze making it more likely to be interupted, then compare the 5 second recharge of vamp gaze to the 45 second recharge of sig of judgement.... i think we got a winner.
miteethor
Signet of Judgement {Elite} - Signet
Target foe is knocked down. That foe and all nearby foes take 15-63 Holy damage.
SoG IS an aoe. Also, since it's a signet and not a spell, it's immune to many more forms of interruption than Vamp Gaze.
Target foe is knocked down. That foe and all nearby foes take 15-63 Holy damage.
SoG IS an aoe. Also, since it's a signet and not a spell, it's immune to many more forms of interruption than Vamp Gaze.
Carinae
I like it.
In order for Spellbreaker to work the opposing team, would:
a) need to have SB equipped and...
b) have to see it coming, and activate SB ahead of time.
Also, the only two ways I know to remove SB are both necro spells. Finally, just wait out SB. it's recharge is longer than it's effect. Attack another target. Unless it's an all Monk vs. an all Necro battle there are other targets to get. VG ignores armor, so all targets are soft targets.
In order for Spellbreaker to work the opposing team, would:
a) need to have SB equipped and...
b) have to see it coming, and activate SB ahead of time.
Also, the only two ways I know to remove SB are both necro spells. Finally, just wait out SB. it's recharge is longer than it's effect. Attack another target. Unless it's an all Monk vs. an all Necro battle there are other targets to get. VG ignores armor, so all targets are soft targets.
Janssen
U can just as well go '8 guys with energy Burn' or '8 with Obsidian Flame' or '8 tanking warriors' its just obvious. I dont think Monks are just gonna do there usual thignys when they see 8 necros coming. Ur only recovery is the gaze, so if the monk[s] just run off, and u haev 2+ warriors bashing u, and some more dmg, ur killed easily. Then u can switch target etc. ; Takes time.
Plz correct me if i made some crucial mistake..
Plz correct me if i made some crucial mistake..
ElderAtronach
One thing to note: Vamp Gaze will NOT kill a target if they are below whatever your vamp gaze's damage is, it will simply take them down to 1 HP, and any vamp gazes afterwards will steal 0 health.
I'm not going to comment about how practical this build would be, but I will give you these pointers.
- If you can coordinate, shadow strike is a much better spike to lead off with, followed by vamp gaze
- Echoing vamp gaze on all 8 team members is inefficient and leaves big holes in your team defense
- 2 superior runes will make sure your necros die faster if they get concentrated fire
- Energy Drain > Offering of Blood in a 8v8 setting, and you're going all N/Me anyways...
- Blood Ritual is inefficient for PVP
- At least one of the necros should be bringing putrid explosion and other corpse-exploiting skills
- Only the putrid guys should have high soul reaping (the others can run inspiration)
- You should run some warrior counters, some caster counters, and some hex-counters.
I'm not going to comment about how practical this build would be, but I will give you these pointers.
- If you can coordinate, shadow strike is a much better spike to lead off with, followed by vamp gaze
- Echoing vamp gaze on all 8 team members is inefficient and leaves big holes in your team defense
- 2 superior runes will make sure your necros die faster if they get concentrated fire
- Energy Drain > Offering of Blood in a 8v8 setting, and you're going all N/Me anyways...
- Blood Ritual is inefficient for PVP
- At least one of the necros should be bringing putrid explosion and other corpse-exploiting skills
- Only the putrid guys should have high soul reaping (the others can run inspiration)
- You should run some warrior counters, some caster counters, and some hex-counters.
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderAtronach
One thing to note: Vamp Gaze will NOT kill a target if they are below whatever your vamp gaze's damage is, it will simply take them down to 1 HP, and any vamp gazes afterwards will steal 0 health.
Where did you get this from? Of course it will kill you in this situation. I do it all the time.
ElderAtronach
I have played with vamp gaze extensively in the arenas. When I was the only one attacking a target, I would shadow strike/vamp gaze repeatedly. The times that he was low on health (only a sliver of his health bar remaining), I would steal VERY low amounts of HP with vamp gaze. One time I stole 4 HP from a warrior. Yeah, 4. And he was still alive.
Of course, having 1 HP remaining would ensure they died the next time I hit them with a wand attack, but that's beside the point for your question.
Of course, having 1 HP remaining would ensure they died the next time I hit them with a wand attack, but that's beside the point for your question.
Carinae
Can anyone else confirm this behavior? It absolutely does NOT work like this in PvE.
Enigmatics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Eh, Vampiric Gaze. If you really want to spike someone you'd use Lightning Orb or so... And we all know how well spiking groups work...
Yep. Aeros with 16 Energy Storage will be doing upwards of 100 damage, while healing themselves by 60 points per orb via Aura of Restoration.
Nash
16 Energy Storage, what a waste of headgear/Superior rune. :/
16 Air, obviously. Aura of Restoration you only use with Ether Renewal.
16 Air, obviously. Aura of Restoration you only use with Ether Renewal.
Enigmatics
Let me clarify: I was trying to demonstrate the 100 damage/60 health gained from spamming orb, which outstrips the 63/63 of Vampiric Gaze. Needless to say, this is an unorthodox way of doing things; I was trying to be objective. Not trying to mindlessly peddle the most direct build I can think of.
Oh, yeah, you don't need level 16 air magic to have a 100 damage orb. Let me reference my above paragraph if your next argument is that aeromancers need level 16 air, no matter what.
Oh, yeah, you don't need level 16 air magic to have a 100 damage orb. Let me reference my above paragraph if your next argument is that aeromancers need level 16 air, no matter what.
ElderAtronach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Can anyone else confirm this behavior? It absolutely does NOT work like this in PvE.
You can test it yourself, you'll see that it's the case in PVP, for whatever reason.
Carinae
You sure the target wasn't running PB or PS? Lead off with a Rend in that situation and then try VG.
(I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm at work and can't test it now. I just can't fathom why VG wouldn't kill in that situation. If it's true it has to be a bug.)
(I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm at work and can't test it now. I just can't fathom why VG wouldn't kill in that situation. If it's true it has to be a bug.)
Enigmatics
Quote:
Nash
Well, it'd make sense. You can't steal more energy than someone has. Health steals could work similarly.
ElderAtronach
As I've said, I've played a blood drainer in random for quite a while now (in fact its my favorite build there for ambushing unsuspecting nubs). No, my targets were not protbonded, prot spirited, or shielding handed, since my shadow strikes did the full 55 just before the vamp gaze. It literally takes them down to 1 HP. Then I hit with my wand and they fall over.
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Well, it'd make sense. You can't steal more energy than someone has. Health steals could work similarly.
You can't more health than they have, but you can steal up to and including 100%. (barring this discussion)
Enigmatics
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderAtronach
Quote:
Well, it'd make sense. You can't steal more energy than someone has. Health steals could work similarly.
He said that the target was still alive even though his vampiric gaze did 4 damage.
The Red Knight
warriors would have a feild day with this team
Carinae
I doubt that. Why do you think so?
8x68 on one called target. Target dies. Drop Well of Profane. All Necro's move inside Well. Call next target. Rinse, repeat. Warriors cant touch that.
8x68 on one called target. Target dies. Drop Well of Profane. All Necro's move inside Well. Call next target. Rinse, repeat. Warriors cant touch that.
Haodu
Yeah, i'm pretty sure vampiric gaze kills them. I've played many games where i've caught a runner using vampiric gaze to kill them and win the game...
Glasswalker
I never quite put 2 and 2 together, but I can confirm the behavior that Atronach is describing in VG. There are a number of skills that do this. Another I have noticed is Endure Pain. When it wears off, assuming you have less health than it granted you, it gives you 1 health, not 0. It took me a while to figure this out, because I often had degen on me too, and when the spell wore off I fell to 1, then immediately to 0.
kvndoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Can anyone else confirm this behavior? It absolutely does NOT work like this in PvE.
Yes it does. Go farm Moss Scarabs in Maguuma. If you use an AOE on a big group (6 - 10), they ALL start spamming once their health gets low. Even when my health gets to be extremely low (by far less than 68, even less than 10), they can't kill me if I cast Healing Breeze repeatedly. Surviving half a dozen or more chained VG's when your health was already below 68 would obviously not be possible under any other circumstances. The only way they'll kill me is if one gets in a critical hit (which will do 1 damage against my armor instead of 0) immediately after another hits me with VG to take me down to 1. Easily provable with a W/Mo build.
QuitBanningMe
yeh its true, i was once running from a W/N in 4v4 and I had about 5 hp, and the vamp gazes he kept firing off never could kill me.