All mesmer/ team. Is it possible? "Taxer Group"

navymrgoodbar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Team Hoax

02 Sep 2005 at 01:15 - 1

YES, I did a search for the question I'm asking and no luck, so here's the first thread to it!

Basically I want to know if anyone has tried an all mesmer/ team. Doesn't matter which secondary.

I know an all mesmer team can kick an all monk team any day, but has anyone tried it? Is it even possible? Also, DOES AN ALL MESMER TEAM HAVE ANY WEAKNESSES?

Say you have 4 Me/Mo, and the rest Me/<anything>. The 4 Me/Mo are basically monks in disguess. Since the Me/ has one of the best energy regens, wouldn't that make them a healing god if they only focused on healing? Then you take the other 4 Me/<anything> and use them to attack. So you have 4 "major monks" (I like to call them.) healing the "major attackers". Since everyone would be using hexes would it be even possible to bring this sort of team down?

P.S. This is if everyone has the best armor in the game as if you were making it straight PVP.

P.P.S. Compare a smiting group to this group (which I don't think has a name yet). If not, let's call this a "Taxer Group" since you concentrate on overtaxing the opponent in hexes/curses.

thegame2009

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Forsaken Sanctuary [FoSa]

Mo/Me

02 Sep 2005 at 01:18 - 2

Doubt it. Unless you go one Me/ healer and one Me/ prot. Else 2-3 warriors would rape you...

navymrgoodbar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Team Hoax

02 Sep 2005 at 01:19 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame2009

Else 2-3 warriors would rape you... How so? Please do tell.

Stayfrosty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Marduke guild

02 Sep 2005 at 01:23 - 4

eh its prolly harder than you think... but mesmers own as healers, they dont heal for as much as a regular monk but they cast spells almost instantly with a lvl ~10 fast cast

navymrgoodbar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Team Hoax

02 Sep 2005 at 01:28 - 5

And what if someone to master this all mesmer team with enough major monks? Would it be a dominating force in HOH?

Say you have at least 2 Me/N that both know Soul Barbs. There goes the pain. Also add 4 Empathys on the major attackers. Now you have those 2-3 warriors begging for mercy. Stack that w/ Insidious Parasite and Spiteful Spirit.

Everything that's hard is almost worthwhile in the end if you're able to control it, don't you agree?

Bast

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Sep 2005 at 01:34 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by navymrgoodbar

Everything that's hard is almost worthwhile in the end if you're able to control it, don't you agree? What is this? a Viagra commercial?

On topic: You'd be running a bunch of weak healers and a bunch of weak attackers. Mesmers are not very good at either of these things and both are necessary in a good team. On top of that, an entire team of squishy targets backed by weak healing would drop like flies.

navymrgoodbar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Team Hoax

02 Sep 2005 at 01:35 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

What is this? a Viagra commercial? LMFAO!

Mercury Angel

Avatar of Gwen

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wandering my own road.

02 Sep 2005 at 01:38 - 8

I'd imagine the important question is whether or not each mesmer can shut down someone.

I'd speculated on a mass Migraine+Imagined Budren+Phantam Pain+Conjure Phantasm with Power Drain, Cry of Frustration, and Power Spike to block attempts to remove the hexes.

You could kite warriors until they degenerate to death, and interrupt attempts to heal until everyone else degenerates to death as well (With ~100 extra damage from power spike).

The problems arise against rangers, who won't be overly affected by movement debuffs or slowed casting as forms of control, and not having enough space to fit in other needed counters, such as enchantment removal.

Edit: That's not to say they're the only problems. Just bear in mind this was only idle conjecture.

Re-Edit: Actually, revise that and drop Imagined Burden, as if the match lasts long enough to use it, no amount of interrupts is going to keep Rez Signet from going off. With the saved space, you get Shatter Delusions.

Unfortunately, after a 'duh' head-smacking moment, I realized that I forgot about Hex Breaker, and the entire build is dead from the moment it meets that.

xpuppetmaster

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

02 Sep 2005 at 01:42 - 9

How do you propose to do damage? Let's look at your options: me/w - what can you do here, well the only thing that would make sense is IW, which is terrible. Maybe a blackout war, but what is the point of w/me instead of me/w? Two extra blackout secs aren't going to make a difference. Regardless of that, blackout wars are gimped for the same reason w/r's are gimped, no sprint. Then you have a me/r and two things come to mind, a frag ranger and conundrum interrupter. Should I even comment on how terrible frag builds are, no it's a waste of time. What about a conundrum interrupter? Wait, I though we were trying to do damage. Me/e maybe the best way for damage, but you don't have the energy. Me/n and me/mo have nothing for damage. Oh noes dots!!! Martyr ftw. As for me/mo being a healing god, are you joking? Usually divine favor is going to account for ~30% of a heal and you don’t have it.

Arcanis Imperium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

nova

Me/E

02 Sep 2005 at 08:58 - 10

This would rock hard and would own PVP, if it was set up right.

First you would need to set it up like a normal team, with the secondaries as needed.

2 Me/W IW Builds, with Inspiration Magic Armor creation spells.

2 Me/Mo 1 Fast Cast Healer with Inspiration Energy Stealing. 1 Protection Hexer, keeping the IW's from recieving much harm.

1 Me/E This design should be built like any E and be made for straight damage. My paticular set up uses things like Energy Burn, Energy Surge, Conjure Phantasm, Phantom Pain and Air Spiking abilities.

1 Me/N Well Creator for to keep up the energy of the group, could also do hexes.

and now 2 pure shutdown Mesmers to take out the casters on the other side.

The matches would have to play out like this, the Shut Down Casters would start by taking out the Monks and the other Casters on the opposing side, the Prot Monk would cast a spell on the entire group to protect from damage. Because the Casters have already been shut down, there is no way to strip the enchantment right away. The IW builds should then begin working on the tanks, and the Me/E should work on killing the monks on the other side.

With Fast Casting the primary concern here, Mesmers would be able to cast their spells before being able to be countered and could very easily take out most competition.

Reasoning behind this failing: A group that contains too many casters to shut down. Too many warriors for the IW's to handle. Other than the team set up would take down quite a few teams.

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Sep 2005 at 15:57 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

02 Sep 2005 at 17:10 - 12

This build will work if you're betting on a good balance vs. a shitty one.

For instance... it's all mesmers, so you'd want a set of 2 disruptors, 2 damagers. [in 8v8 I wouldn't want to think about that]

2 Me/N both geared toward hampering caster and warrior/ranger alike.

the other 2 geared for damage.

A Fragility Mesmer is screaming to take this role.
Me/E does damage faster than any primary ele ever will and he can just steal the energy to make up for a lack of E. Storage.

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Sep 2005 at 17:16 - 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
This build will work if you're betting on a good balance vs. a shitty one.

For instance... it's all mesmers, so you'd want a set of 2 disruptors, 2 damagers. [in 8v8 I wouldn't want to think about that]

2 Me/N both geared toward hampering caster and warrior/ranger alike.

the other 2 geared for damage.

A Fragility Mesmer is screaming to take this role.
Me/E does damage faster than any primary ele ever will and he can just steal the energy to make up for a lack of E. Storage. Ok, I could agree with this, if a few of your mesmers were secondaries. Say a blackout W/ME for example. A Mo/Me healer doing nothing but healing and E-Draining the target to fuel the heals. The whole team as PRIMARY mesmers would be very hard to press to victory, IMO.

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

02 Sep 2005 at 18:47 - 14

Try to run this and ya'll all get owned.

-- Spura

Tom und Metti

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europe/Germany

R/Mo

03 Sep 2005 at 00:42 - 15

Well if that combo should work tell use about it, otherwise the next player come with a hole Smite/Heal/Protection Monk build (that could maybe work, as long they fight vs a Warrior only group )

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

03 Sep 2005 at 01:33 - 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spura
Try to run this and ya'll all get owned.

-- Spura since 1 frag mes usually can take down any single target on the game completely alone in under 10 sec i don't see how you'll get owned.

you'll start seeing all monks carry spell breaker because of this. my frag just owns the monks so bad. backfire, frag, pp, shatter dilusions, virlurence. most of the time they half way kill themselves before they even notice the backfire.

rinse and repeat.

Lebdan

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

03 Sep 2005 at 02:46 - 17

arredondo's been trying to put up a group like that in Tombs. You should PM him if you want to be in the group.

navymrgoodbar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Team Hoax

N/

03 Sep 2005 at 04:02 - 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebdan
arredondo's been trying to put up a group like that in Tombs. You should PM him if you want to be in the group. Right now I don't have a mez PRIMARY. I was just thinking about making it. Plz tell the full name so I may ask that person in the game.

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

03 Sep 2005 at 06:37 - 19

An all Me/ team wouldn't be very good unless they were extremely organized, and even then, why run an all Me/ group?

For damage dealing, you could have a bunch of Frag Memsers each choose a different target, then IW what's left of their health, while your shutdown Memsers target the Monks. It might sound good on paper but I doubt it would work very well.

But Me/Mo healers aren't very good.

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

03 Sep 2005 at 10:20 - 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
since 1 frag mes usually can take down any single target on the game completely alone in under 10 sec i don't see how you'll get owned.

you'll start seeing all monks carry spell breaker because of this. my frag just owns the monks so bad. backfire, frag, pp, shatter dilusions, virlurence. most of the time they half way kill themselves before they even notice the backfire.

rinse and repeat. Fragility build doesn't kill in one spike. Even with 0 death magic there is 3 second window in which target can be healed. You are clearly ignoring the possiblity of any OTHER monk healing the one you are on in those 3 seconds. Just because you put backfire on doesn't mean he won't get healed. Besides they have signet of devotion which they can heal themselves with in those 3 seconds. And then there is hex breaker. If you hit it with backfire, they can heal themselves with healing touch. If they are too dumb to notice backfire, that's their problem. It is not wise to rely on opponent being stupid when designing builds.

On other note, IW mesmers are terrible damage. Me/Mo are terrible monks. And Me/E are terrible damage. Not having 16 in elemental attribute hurts damage way too much. Fast casting only makes spells cast faster, it doesn't get you energy to cast those spells or decrease recharges. Sucky damage and sucky healing team. The only characters not doing subpar job on an 8 mesmer team would be the shutdown one's, because that's what mesmers are for.

octaviancmb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Me/

03 Sep 2005 at 16:23 - 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spura
Fragility build doesn't kill in one spike. Even with 0 death magic there is 3 second window in which target can be healed.
Three *whole* seconds? Since when did this become a significant amount of time? That, of course, assumes the Monk under Fragility never even tried to cast a spell through his Backfire. If he did, he's already dead, no need to wait for the Virulence to end. Add to the equation that *all* the Monks on your team get Backfired...at the same moment, as well as your team's token Mesmer. That generally gives the Me/N's a 10 second window to own whoever they want.

In other sites around the battlefield, your Hammer Warrior can't gain any adrenaline, the other warriors' targets cause them to lose all adrenaline and a hefty amount of energy for the privilige of attacking them, and your Ranger is blind and moving 50% as fast as he normally should. All of them have health degen (the Ranger *did* try to Troll Ungent, but, oops, Cry'd away). Your El/Mo smiters? After a couple Monks die (10 seconds in -- oh, look, the Me/R dropped Frozen Soil...), their enchantments start dropping, they get diversioned, they become worthless.

Yeah, I think the "crappy" Me/Mo's can keep up with this level of healing...even on a bad day...stealing your team's energy when they need to cast their Healing Seeds (in virtually 1 second). Of course, they need an enemy team to steal from, and...you're all dead...

This is all just theory, though. Most theoretical discussions about GW are utterly worthless due to the chaos of actual battle, human error, and the unexpected (surprise doubleteams, disconnections, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura
The only characters not doing subpar job on an 8 mesmer team would be the shutdown one's, because that's what mesmers are for. Clearly, Mesmers are utterly worthless outside of shutdown (which, lets not forget, Rangers are *always* better at, anyway). There's absolutely no other build worth considering for them at all. Ever. I hear ArenaNet's going to get rid of them in Chapter 2 because they're so pointless, replacing them with "Owners," a profession with no disadvantage and no counters. </sarcasm>

Lets look at a few of the tactical advantages and disadvantages of such a team.

Advantages:

1) No clear target. The enemy team will not know who to initially target from among your Mesmers. This buys the Mesmer team a few precious seconds at the critical beginning of the battle.
2) Disruption. The enemy team can count on *several* of their strategies being shut down. No profesion combination or strategy is safe.
3) Hex and enchantment removal. Everyone on your side of the battle can potentially remove 2-6 hexes and enchantments, and has hex-defence built in should they chose to include it.
4) Elite swapping. Everyone on the Mesmer team can share and trade elites back and forth throgh Arcane Mimicry. All your elites can be doubled/trippled.
5) Overall energy advantage. Unless you're facing a very bizarre team (like your own), your team probably has an overall energy advantage. (Addendum due to Smite: This assumes you can stop the Ether Renewal advantage. I am assuming this won't be an issue for an 8-Mesmer team. I could be wrong.)
6) Raw speed. All your casts are faster. You can accomplish more than the other team can in the same amount of time.

Disadvantages
1) Lack of access to other professions' primary attribute. The energy management attributes won't hurt as bad (Mesmers can compensate for lack of Energy Storage, Soul Reaping, and Expertise, at least in terms of energy management, if not skills), but lacking access to Divine Favor and Strength will mean that, for your monks, each and every heal has to count and you'll be somewhat disadvantaged in melee.
2) Skills. Similar to 1, above, the all Mesmer team might as well not take any skill tied to another profession's primary attribute unless that skill has utility at 0 attribute points. Also, they're limited to a 12-attribute ceiling (13 attribute 20% of the time) for all the other second profession skills. This lowers the efficiency of their second profession skills, sometimes by a non-trivial amount.
3) Armor. Several professions can wear better armor than Mesmers. Mesmers have only a couple of armor-increasing skills within their profession, and these armor buffs are always conditional.
4) Non skill/spell damage. Most of your team will have no access to bows or melee weapons. Your non skill/non-spell damage will be lower.
5) Primarily hex-based skills. Outside of shutdown, energy denial, or the second profession, a Mesmer is tied to hexes (and in some cases enchantments). Using a single strategy for offense can sometimes be easily shut down.
6) Difficult profession to master. The Mesmer is not a simple profession. You'll need an intelligent team.

An all-Mesmer team will have to capitalize on its advantages and minimize its disadvantages in order to succeed in a robust environment like high-level PvP. After examining these advantages and disadvantages, I think it is likely an all Mesmer team can accomplish that feat. Thus it is likely an all Mesmer team can be successful in high-level PvP.

However, I think you're likely better off with a balanced group.

cmb

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

03 Sep 2005 at 18:54 - 22

The Mesmer, in my opinion, is the best support character, but totally sucks in the primary slot (except for Me/N). HEY DON'T LET ANET DELETE IT!
Me/E: Exhaustion owns you. Unless you go Hydro or Aeromancing, and they aren't that effective.
Me/N: I Like it. But you can't have a full team of that.
Me/Mo: No Divine favor, as said above.
Me/R: I never said this was bad, but it's quite...well, you'd have to have a lot of creativity.
Me/W: I'll pretend I didn't hear that.

Mesmerists own as a secondary, but a FULL team of Mesmer primaries? I Sincerely Do Not Think you will have a chance against a balanced team. You might kick some moderate teams if your friends are really good, but, as octavian said, you'd be better off in a balanced group.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

xpuppetmaster

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

04 Sep 2005 at 01:57 - 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium
2 Me/W IW Builds, with Inspiration Magic Armor creation spells.

Might as well be 6v8 when playing organized teams.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium 2 Me/Mo 1 Fast Cast Healer with Inspiration Energy Stealing. 1 Protection Hexer, keeping the IW's from recieving much harm. Who the hell is going to attack the IW's?

Quote: Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium 1 Me/E This design should be built like any E and be made for straight damage. My paticular set up uses things like Energy Burn, Energy Surge, Conjure Phantasm, Phantom Pain and Air Spiking abilities. Air causes exchaustion, mesmers have 50-60 energy, see any problems? After 2 min its down to a 5v8.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium 1 Me/N Well Creator for to keep up the energy of the group, could also do hexes. Hexes would make more sense than wells.

Quote: NEWSFLASH! Mo/Me is stealing your energy too, and not much less, while healing a lot more. I don't give a shit about 1 second cast Healing Seed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium
and now 2 pure shutdown Mesmers to take out the casters on the other side.

The matches would have to play out like this, the Shut Down Casters would start by taking out the Monks and the other Casters on the opposing side, the Prot Monk would cast a spell on the entire group to protect from damage. Because the Casters have already been shut down, there is no way to strip the enchantment right away. The IW builds should then begin working on the tanks, and the Me/E should work on killing the monks on the other side. Have you ever played the game or are you suffering from what I call zoo mom syndrome? For those who aren't aware, zoo mom syndrome is when moms at a zoo read signs about animals then turn to each other and pretend they have PhD's regarding the matter. Honestly, there is no way two shut down mes can take out more than 2 casters and its highly unlikely that would even be sustainable other than by constant blackout or constant diversion spamming. Please don't bring up backfire because that skill is a joke. Energy denial mesmers could possible take out 2 casters each, but that is assuming they are pretty good or their targets blow. Don’t start with the “I know a mesmer that can take 3 or 4 casters out of the game” either because they don’t exist against good teams. The best mesmer I ever played was from iQ and he could barely handle two casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium
With Fast Casting the primary concern here, Mesmers would be able to cast their spells before being able to be countered and could very easily take out most competition. How on earth is fast casting the primary concern? When has fast casting ever killed anyone? At the VERY most the other team will have 2 dedicated interrupters with maybe a skill like disrupting chop stuck on a war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium
Reasoning behind this failing: A group that contains too many casters to shut down. Too many warriors for the IW's to handle. Other than the team set up would take down quite a few teams. Reasoning behind this failing: NONE - Conjure Phantasm FTW!!!

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

04 Sep 2005 at 09:40 - 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by octaviancmb
Three *whole* seconds? Since when did this become a significant amount of time? That, of course, assumes the Monk under Fragility never even tried to cast a spell through his Backfire. If he did, he's already dead, no need to wait for the Virulence to end. Add to the equation that *all* the Monks on your team get Backfired...at the same moment, as well as your team's token Mesmer. That generally gives the Me/N's a 10 second window to own whoever they want.

You know what? My monks pack hex breaker. You've failed to address that. Backfire hits hex breaker, which I reapply, so fragility does too. Other than that, when I get backfire as a monk, I just start running. GG. And of course I call backfire. So other monk casts smite hex. Which hits backfire or fragility. Because you chain cast, it will probably hit fragility. If it hits phantom pain, you will shatter delusions on fragility. Anyway, hexbreaker and hex removal throughout the team owns you. Btw in my latest build 5 characters pack hex removal. There is no way you will shut them down with only 2 shutdown mesmers. And yes 3 second is gargautan ammount of time to heal someone. Espeically if someone calls fragility and I know it will be coming. Overall Me/N with fragility = crap. If you do it on hex breaking monk who calls his hexes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by octaviancmb
In other sites around the battlefield, your Hammer Warrior can't gain any adrenaline, the other warriors' targets cause them to lose all adrenaline and a hefty amount of energy for the privilige of attacking them, and your Ranger is blind and moving 50% as fast as he normally should. All of them have health degen (the Ranger *did* try to Troll Ungent, but, oops, Cry'd away). Your El/Mo smiters? After a couple Monks die (10 seconds in -- oh, look, the Me/R dropped Frozen Soil...), their enchantments start dropping, they get diversioned, they become worthless.

Ok, you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk? Write up a group that has all that and I'll believe you. Of course you can't, because you just listed practically all counters mesmer has, ignoring the fact that you have limited amount of slots. Also I would like to see those shutdown mesmers switch from monks to ranger for cry. Yea, that'll happen.

P.S. Frozen soil can be killed in 3 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by octaviancmb
Yeah, I think the "crappy" Me/Mo's can keep up with this level of healing...even on a bad day...stealing your team's energy when they need to cast their Healing Seeds (in virtually 1 second). Of course, they need an enemy team to steal from, and...you're all dead...

Originally Posted by octaviancmb
This is all just theory, though. Most theoretical discussions about GW are utterly worthless due to the chaos of actual battle, human error, and the unexpected (surprise doubleteams, disconnections, etc). No shit sherlock, it is a theory. Try writing such a team down to a skill. Not so easy is it? You keep assuming each of these mesmers has every skill available to mesmer in the battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Lets look at a few of the tactical advantages and disadvantages of such a team.

Advantages:

1) No clear target. The enemy team will not know who to initially target from among your Mesmers. This buys the Mesmer team a few precious seconds at the critical beginning of the battle.
2) Disruption. The enemy team can count on *several* of their strategies being shut down. No profesion combination or strategy is safe.
3) Hex and enchantment removal. Everyone on your side of the battle can potentially remove 2-6 hexes and enchantments, and has hex-defence built in should they chose to include it.
4) Elite swapping. Everyone on the Mesmer team can share and trade elites back and forth throgh Arcane Mimicry. All your elites can be doubled/trippled.
5) Overall energy advantage. Unless you're facing a very bizarre team (like your own), your team probably has an overall energy advantage. (Addendum due to Smite: This assumes you can stop the Ether Renewal advantage. I am assuming this won't be an issue for an 8-Mesmer team. I could be wrong.)
6) Raw speed. All your casts are faster. You can accomplish more than the other team can in the same amount of time. 1. Wrong. When you see 8 Me, there are very clear targets. Me/Mo. This is so obvious.
2. So? You won't be able to keep it up against a team with good hex removal and a few counters themselves. Because that other team actually has damage.
3. Why would that be any huge advantage? If you run into a team not running any hexes or enchantments, you have bunch of useless slots. Besides with 2 Mo/Me and one Me and one N I can get very good enchantment and hex removal.
4. Energy cost(15), recharge times(60 sec recharge, works 20 sec), dubious benefits, requires additional micro and works just as well with secondary mesmer.
5. You are again assuming all mesmers have points in inspiration and a few skills slots devoted to energy management.
6. Doesn't help much with the exception of necro hexes, because they are mostly 2 or 3 sec.

So basically you assume all mesmers have 10 or more inspiration about 2 slots go to energy management skills, 1 slot to hex breaker, 1 slot to arcane mimicry, 1 slot to enchantment removal. So that leaves you with 3 slots to do your business.

So stop with theorycraft and post a build. I'd like to see you cram all this stuff into 64 slots.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

UK

04 Sep 2005 at 20:18 - 25

An all mesmer team is for a start gimicky and stupid. But if you were going to make one, fragility is a stupid thing to use for damage output against, as spura has pointed out, organisation. So in fact is hexing. Except probably diversion, which I just like anyway. Surely a more effective way would be straight up energy denial. Its hard to counter, the main points made against it being foci switching and e management skills, but a couple of characters dedicated to the process would be a lot more effective than casting *backfire*.

i second the point about mimicry. under oath shot then maybe, but 60s is a long time to wait for.... anything.

However, most mo/me e management (healers at least) rely on non enemy targeting, i.e. inspired hex and channeling.... a few are drainers but most consider it a bit too much hassle.

me/mo healers.......... i just, dont see the point. your saying that an all mesmer team cant be stopped (who knows all rangers cant.... not all combos have been realised), but insisting on me/mo for defense is a waste.

Me/E are good duel attunement, the existence of which means you simply spam things that dont cause exhaustion. A continous chain of orbs is more useful than most ex. causers, especially since chain got nerfed.

Arcanis Imperium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

nova

Me/E

05 Sep 2005 at 07:42 - 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster
Might as well be 6v8 when playing organized teams.

Or apparently you've never fought anyone who actually knew how to play an IW build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster
Who the hell is going to attack the IW's?

Same as above.

Quote: Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster Air causes exchaustion, mesmers have 50-60 energy, see any problems? After 2 min its down to a 5v8. Oh darn, Exhaustion. Hey lets count the number of spells that causes it. What's that? Only about 20% of the total number? Wow, that's not preventable at all, is it? Cant imagine how I've run a Me/E the whole time I've been playing this game....

Quote: Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster Hexes would make more sense than wells. Or you know, you might want to exploit corpses so they cant be rezzed, increase health and energy of a Caster primary who has low armor.... No, that would never work

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster
Have you ever played the game or are you suffering from what I call zoo mom syndrome? For those who aren't aware, zoo mom syndrome is when moms at a zoo read signs about animals then turn to each other and pretend they have PhD's regarding the matter. Honestly, there is no way two shut down mes can take out more than 2 casters and its highly unlikely that would even be sustainable other than by constant blackout or constant diversion spamming. Please don't bring up backfire because that skill is a joke. Energy denial mesmers could possible take out 2 casters each, but that is assuming they are pretty good or their targets blow. Don’t start with the “I know a mesmer that can take 3 or 4 casters out of the game” either because they don’t exist against good teams. The best mesmer I ever played was from iQ and he could barely handle two casters. HA! You are such an idiot. I dont know my own primary class on my main character. Your going to lecture me about what someone can and cant do? You do realize its all dependent on the person and the build. Anyone can make a mesmer, hell anyone can unlock mesmer skills through a secondary. But unless your a real quick learner, there's no way your going to know everything about the class unless you spend countless hours as a primary one. You can say anything you'd like, but really that whole post just shows you dont know shit. Backfire is a joke, but only by itself. It doesnt work because its put on casters, who can either break it, have it broken for them, or will just attack the caster. If you combine Backfire with other hexes, it becomes a problem.

Secondly, you wanna know how Shut Down Mesmers take out multiple casters? Would you like to know? They use Mantra of Recovery, and have a 12 in Fast Cast. So they cast 4 hexes on one caster, use Energy stealing to pump back up, and cast the hexes again. You take two people who can do this and you take out 4 casters in under a minute. Wow, that cant be done right? I mean, if you didnt think of that, it cant be done, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster
How on earth is fast casting the primary concern? When has fast casting ever killed anyone? At the VERY most the other team will have 2 dedicated interrupters with maybe a skill like disrupting chop stuck on a war. Look above you dipshit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpuppetmaster
Reasoning behind this failing: NONE - Conjure Phantasm FTW!!! If your a moron..... Max Health Degen is a 11. That's if, IF!, people dont break the hexes and deal you damage. Then you still have to worry about other ways to deal damage. And Hexing is not the end all of Mesmer skills.

When you actually know what the hell your talking about, critisize me again. Until then, shut the hell up.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

UK

05 Sep 2005 at 07:56 - 27

Anyone using a hex other than diversion with the intention of a shutdown lasting more than 5 seconds is seriously misguided.

Max Health degen is 10, i.e. -20hps.

Yeah, hes fought people playing iW, they were the people who cast it right at the start, when you havent actually engaged yet, when their mesmers with shatter are looking right at you ^_^. Shattering in the middle of a battle is a little harder. Perhaps someone saying 'shatter this guy please' but a mesmer as ive said before, especially when going for multiple targets is a full time job. iW should kill in around 7 seconds on its own, but its nothing a monk cant outheal tbh. iW as your only source of damage is awful. To put pressure on monks with sustained dps like iW id say a ballpark figure is 160-80 combined dps. And even then, itll take a while to kill them, cause your trying to simply burn them out till they have nothing left and just buckle under the constant pressure. O yeah and thats a minimum^ 2 iW are going to hit about 90 with ias.

if you exploit a corpse they can still be ressed, they just cant be exploited by anyone else. Even with the 5s cooldown, id still say anything besides necrotic trasveral is going to get blown out of the water by putrid, although i am seeing less of it these days.

If you combine backfire with other hexes, thats called hex stacking and will get converted.

4 casters in under a minute? For a start, a fear me or debil shot abuser can take out 3-4 casters in a max of 20 seconds. The debil shot faster, but the fear me probably more consistently :/

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