What's the rush?

And you knew that on your first run through the game?
Riiiight.

Because LIKE I SAID, people should be perfectly free to run/taxi their second to N'th character as much as they want.

I haven't seen anyone here who've had a problem with that.

Despite this, most of the replies are along the lines of "this is my 14th character and I don't want to do the same stuff all over again".

If I was going through the game in a regular fashion, I wouldn't even want to group with a twinked character like yourself. Getting Droknar armour is a conscious decision on your part to eliminate a significant portion of the challenge, so it becomes even more of an exercise in repeating old tricks. Increasing the challenge by consciously gimping myself (by taking oddball builds and/or taking a minimal amount of players along) for quests and missions is the one thing that is keeping things interesting for me to play missions yet again, making it even easier than they already are seems seriously counter-productive.

What's the rush? I think the question should be - where were you when everyone was playing their second and third characters through the missions? Do you expect everyone else to wait up for you while you take your time spending four months playing casually before starting a new character? Let's talk again when you're on your fifth or eight character, see if you still want to experience the full content PvE has to offer after all that.

I like them wannabe-Mesmers who power-leveled/ran to ascension and find themselves being useless not only their whole team but also to themselves because they copied a build they gazed at in wonder (in PVP, in a video, wherever). Funny too those Blitz-Solomonks who after the "nerf" delete their chars because of their inability to master the arts of healing/protection.

I'm in it for unlocking skills, not to expierence the full PVE content. The missions are just for unlocking cities for skills. Get off your high horse already.

Hi my primary character is a Mesmer/Monk of level 14 - not much I know, but I don't want to speed to the end, get elite skills - then sit back and laugh at people who are doing all the missions - because later you'll realize you have wasted your gaming experience, but moreover you'll learn Guild Wars is a learing process, learning how to best play a character - picking which skills to play with - and if you think it's fun to get to the end in a day or so then I think you've brought the wrong game.

It's not about grinding but about skill.

Ekpyrotic, PvE teaches you painfully little about how to use mesmer skills or which ones work well. I can run at Azure Shadows with my mesmer character and hit Cry of Frustration straight away, and interrupt their Signet of Judgment. Simple facts about Azure Shadows: they have Holy Wrath, Retribution and Signet of Judgement as their skills, and will take turns casting Signet of Judgment at whomever was closest by, with roughly two second delay inbetween their individual casts. I can plan around their skills and behaviour with ease, and don't even have to pay much attention fighting them - their patterns never change.

In PvP, you don't know for sure which skills your opponents will use. You don't know for sure when exactly they'll use them, you don't know for sure who they'll use them on. You don't know how they'll react to you trying to stop them. As a mesmer you have to be paying immense attention to what is going on around you, and be ready to adjust to changed circumstances in an instant. The nature of this sort of play is a completely different world from the controlled and predictable environment of PvE, and I'm convinced playing mesmer in PvE ultimately makes you a worse mesmer for PvP than if you don't play it at all.

Yet someone who wants to play a mesmer in PvP will still need to go through PvE to collect all the skills, even though there's very little room for him to make the most out of his specialized tools with creatures dropping very fast from simple tanking/nuking/healing already. Even if PvE did give you understanding into your class, that would still be grind, just grind with an advantage of learning something, much like a lengthy tutorial you can't skip.

Now imagine you already know very well how to play a mesmer, know exactly what every skill does and still have to go through this 'tutorial' regardless of the fact that it teaches you nothing.

You cant teach timing to someone, that is more intuitive than learned behavior similar to lead in fps games. I would say timing is probably the most important thing for a mesmer and nothing in the pve really helps with that, since all of the pve can be steamrolled via brute force opposed to using a punch and counter setup.

Um... yes. Why is that hard to believe?

I have a problem with people running thier first chars through everything. I have 2 Chars with whom I finished the game, long befire "taxi" services were available, and I only plan to get my 3rd hero through the game fast because I dont want to farm 100+ skill points on my monk for some skills.

People who run their first char learn absolutely NOTHING about how to play, and then go to Random Arena/HoH and say they are "Pro tankers" because they can take some damage in PvE. They join your team, get thier ***es owned, start crying about monks not healing or if they are a monk, that the team is stupid for not charging, and leave.

Oh, I have seen this happen. Good players know what builds will not work from just the skillset.. Rushed people wont. I saw some SWORD MONKS in Random a few days back. My WAND was doing more DPS than they could, and they needed to be constantly healed because they brought only healing breeze with them. As well as the common WaMo noob tutorial build, which teaches people nothing, since most people think, "Oh, I got a monk on my team, now I can charge into those rows of traps and take down that other WaMo and my team will heal me and make me a god."

I was going to help a friend through Elona Reach a few days back, and guess what happened? We got owned before we even reached the first crystal. Reason? The other monk, who sail he was healing, tended to simply stay there and do nothing, pretending we were going to do everything. The warrior, who still had ASCALON armor, decided to tank 4 Arcanists and 2 Elems by himself, thus dying in a few hits. After calling the target, ressing people, and trying to organize something, I gave up since no one could even dent a single Arcanist, because they were all hitting something else.

To put this into perspective, the first time I did this on my monk as a lvl 17, 2 1/2 months ago, I finished the mission in under 10 minutes, on the first try, without anyone dying.

I love the fact that the Doppleganger is still there, he greatly reduces the amount of morons going through to the later stages of the game. This also means that stupid UW-Farmers who rip off builds cant get into UW without passing the missions.

Sorry for the long rant.

Morons are the ones who do that. I've seen nothing to make me believe that there are any fewer morons doing PVE, or that morons who do PVE first learn anything from it.

And how do you know that these people never played the PVE game?

Again, do you have some way of knowing that they were rushed to the desert, or might they just be fools who bumbled their way through all the missions till there?

Maybe Arena Net should have some kind of special 'reward' for people who go through the game and follow the proper progression...a skill, additional attribute points, an extra quest/mission/story related area....? That way, people can still 'run' if they want to, but if they do, they will miss out on something that will help them through PvP or will enhance their experience of the game.

That said, runners hurt the arenas for new players. Something must be done about that soon, and quickly.

the thing that should be done is not allow them into the arena if they have any skills/armor that are past yaks bend.and for yaks arena nothing past druids outlook.

Good to see that pve players are finally complaining that noone cares to play this pathetic pve anymore. Believe me, noone would play with you even if running would be impossible. By now, every person worth teaming with has figured out that henchmen >> PUG. Even if this would not be the case, people would still only play through once, and then farm the exp for all the skills. Since a 2nd or 3rd character is only worth it when you rush.

There are lots of very bad parts in books, movies and games that i would skip. This is less of a problem in books and movies, because they are very short to begin with, but the occasional "aw, lets have emotions" scene here or there still is annoying. Games? Even the best games have parts that are so boring that you rather dont want to do them. Too sad that GW contains around 90% of boring content. Sad thing: most of GWs content is inefficient (farming > playing the game) and boring on top of it. You should be suprised you still see people in the game at all...

To the original poster of this thread: Whatever you do, don't dispair! There are a lot of people out there that don't really care to enjoy the PVE part of this game, and instead spend their time running, getting run, selling things, etc. Ignore them as if they don't exist. All they do for me is eat up a chunk of the server's CPU time (and spam the local chat channel, for example the sellers in Lions).

I play a lot with henchies because I think its the best way to learn about a new mission (you don't have to rush through it!) and because in many cases it is a lot easier than having to deal with the kinds of players one finds in PUGs. But I enjoy playing with human players, and it is great when the group is great. And this does happen often enough for me now. There are still a lot of good players who are mostly interested in enjoying the PVE part of GW. Nothing you can really do about the ones who don't.

Two things I do: I usually never join a group, instead I form my own one by advertising for teamplayers only, fun players only, no leavers, no bullies, etc. etc. This gives a better chance of attracting the good players. I avoid high level players who offer "to help" with the quest or mission (yesterday someone answered my call with "I'll help with the quest" and I replied that I was not looking for help, but looking for people who had to do the quest). The other thing I do is I often take along a couple of henchies instead of filling up the entire party with humans. Less chance then for misunderstandings and different playing styles.

In fact, lately I have been playing the PVE game basically two ways: with human players for entertainment and with henchies in order to advance in the game. Like, I almost completed Thunderkeep mission yesterday with henchies alone (was my first time and I made one blunder near the end). Then I decided to do it with a human group for a laugh, to see how they would do it. The human group also failed, but did far worse than I did on my own.

I think actually no-one should be complaining,wat have runners or ppl that get ran have ever done?.Nothing except you's all say that you's dont have any partys to join wat a bunch of lies there are so many ppl that can get party pretty easily.i completed the game with my first char and then got drok's armor and then with my second char i got ran to droks to get armor and get ascended with-out leveling through missions and quests.I was actually going to do the whole game again without running but a guildy offered so i accepted,does it matter if you get ran or not it has nothing to do with any body else but yourself.


If you wanna get ran and ruin your game then fine,if you wanna do the whole game every single time you start a new char then fine.But complaining about it like a bunch of babies isn't going to sort anything.


Thats my 2 cents $

Myself like playing the game too, but I can understand people that are being rushed. After playing the game once, it's nice playing it again. But I've completed it 3 times now, and I won't do it again, because it does get boring

Well, if you've never actually played the PvE the way it's supposed to - how would you know if it sucks?

Why can't you just play the game the way YOU want to play it, and let the others play it the way THEY like to play it? I'm betting you don't like when others tell you how to play too ...

I'm opposed to new players being run to places because I feel that they never learn to properly play their class, which later creates problems for other people who're stuck to do missions in Fire islands with them (you often see newbies in Augury asking for directions before asking to be run to places, which indicates they've never been to those places with another char). If I'm gathering a group for Thirsty, and ask the eles to bring ward against melee, and BOTH ask me: "where can I get such skill?", I feel odd!

But I see no point in doing ALL the same missions in exactly the same order with my THIRD character. So I skipped the desert missions and instead made a VERY fun journey from Druid's through many previously undiscovered areas down up to Fisherman's ... then proceeded to Sanctum and ascension missions. I will ofc return to jungle later to do the skills quests, but that's it.

I run to most places myself (easy with W/R), except paying a professional Droknar runner). Personally, I think Beacons - Droknar's is the only one worth paying for, since others are so much easier. But if someone believes it's worth paying to be run around the desert - let them play the game they want to play it!! Maybe they don't think eating through gazillion of scarabs and scorpions for the 10th time is a great way to spend your evening ...

Whee, level 3's in Ember Light.

I'll pass...

If they would just make it easier for PvPers to get the things they need(be it UAS or whatever) thru playing PvP this rushing crap would happen far less frequently.

Sooooooooooo Devs... plz make it so PvPers dont even have to touch the PvE game. Make it so they can unlock all thier skills & whatnot much much much faster while they PvP.

Am I a PvPer? No. I'm just tired of PvP ruining PvE.

Gee, dont people get the concept of "Its my game I play how I want to play and how I waste my time" anymore? -_- it seems that everybody seems to be pushing their "feelings" to everybody.

The whole point for me to start a new char is so that he can do what my other char can't do at things only a max character can. I couldn't go to UW solo w/ a warrior, so I created a monk which I"m not about to spend a week playing the game doing the same things I've already done. Not everyone is so willing to spend so much time as you do.

Those level 3's would at least be somebody who beat Thunderhead Keep on another character.

While not explicitly hard, Thunderhead Keep provides a decent barrier to the Ring of Fire missions, due to the fact that it seems to drag on so long (giving plenty of time for someone to drop or making a party wipe-worthy blunder) and it's less forgiving to terrible PuGs.

Obviously, if something were to ever be implimented, it certainly wouldn't be so easy as my idle musing on a message board. I also still think it would be a good idea. It's much better to play with people who want to be there instead of those who have to be there because it's in their way.

There is, in fact, a difference between "never played PVE at all" and "got sick of it before finishing all of the missions".

i dont like henchs , but i understand they are usefull , mainly when outposts are empty ...

i would remove the henchs from the game , so it would be much harder , but we have the new areas that are henchs free , so im happy with that ...

new areas as in sorrows furnace and grenth footprints? if so then WOOHOO NO MORE HENCHIES.

Omg! Omg! Look at him he is skipping the game! He is refusing to repeat it for the third time. Someone ban him! Someone make him redo the missions!

Omg! Look at all these people playing GuildWars the way they want to! This is Totaly Unacceptable! Everyone should be playing the game the way I play it!

OMHB! I have noone to repeat the mission with for the fifth time!?! Someone PLAY with me! I have no guild to play this mission with. I feel so rejected and lonely. HUG ATTACK!

I kindly request for you to agree. Please agree with me. You should agree. Agree now. AGREE OR I BAN YOU!

/sarcasm

yes plus Fiss and Uw that are already henchs free

You shouldn' have put </sarcasm> there, you should've put </completely misses the point ONCE AGAIN>.

Noones said that you shouldn't be able to run your second -> infinity character. Many, myself included, say that one shouldn't be able to run ones FIRST character, or, at the very least <*snip* .. read my warning post below. Aria>

I really want to repeat this, as it seems a really difficult concept to grasp: noone cares if you run your second, third, fourth, fifth... character. Honestly.

talking about running , i start learning to run just for fun in the desert , i sometimes take people for free where they want , its nice , the desert is easy , big places to run ...

and since im a E/W i have sprint , that actualy its the only warrior skill i use most of the time.

Excuse me -- we interrupt your regularly scheduled showings for this special service announcement:

Double posting is becoming rampant and multiple instances of "STFU" are being hurled about like rocks. Please don't. If you can't post something without resorting to "STFU," please do not post it at all until it is possible to contribute without degenerating to near-flames.

Thank you.

That wasn't in fact double posting (which is posting identical messages, isn't it?) but three different replies to three different posts, only one of which contained the offensive acronym - and you deleted the two which DIDN'T contain the offensive acronym or were near-flames.

I'll concur, rushing your first character through PvE is a shame and a waste. There's no point, plus you don't get to grips with the game adequately enough. You don't discover the world, find out all those little places where there's some good stuff, and basically all you're doing is throwing the money you paid for the game down the toilet.

However, I don't have any problem whatsoever with players being run through PvE a 2nd time with new characters. I would suggest though, that they do play the game properly up to Beacon's, get run to Droks, then do all the missions up to (And including) Dragon's lair.

This is what I did with my 2nd character. I don't see the point in getting run to anywhere else (Including LA - Sanctum Cay), as a good player with henchies can get there by themselves anyway. Beacon's - Droknars on the other hand is different.

The thing with people rushing the game is that they want to do it for different reasons. Some want to pwn in Ascalon & Yak's PvE and have better armour & elites (Quite sad really if you ask me). Some want to develop a 2nd character for farming (This was my intention, cos farming with my ranger sucks!), some want to open skills for PvP, and can do this quicker with a new char and some money rather than the faction points, and some just want the map as open as possible so that they have full control over where they can go at their own leisure. - With the exception of the people who want to tip the balance in the early arenas, I can't see a problem with any reason why someone should want to rush the game with a 2nd character, but I don't slag off or criticise people who choose to play the game in any way they want either, as long as it doesn't affect other players having fun, it's fine by me.

No, please, hope they never remove henchies. They are sorely needed! There are a lot of good human players out there, but there are a lot of bad ones as well, and playing with henchies only or mixing a few in the group is a great way to avoid a lot of hassles now and then.

This may be off topic but I want to say it. Henchies don't suddenly go afk or leave during a mission because dinner is ready. This happens to me all too often, and I am utterly astounded each time. What are people thinking when they join a mission or quest?

I have only been to FOW a few times, and not really to UW, but I guess these are two areas of the game that I just won't bother exploring. And the reason is because you can't take henchies. From my brief experience at the temple trying to get into a group, and from my other experiences with human groups of 8, there is simply too great a chance of getting in a group with one or more who don't know how to play as a team or who get ticked off and leave.

I played through all the missions for each of my 3 characters.
I think that if you do not experience the roles that your character fills, you will be severely lacking in the PvP department.

(Well, i sympathize with role-players as they feel that they are forsaken by A.net with the changes made only applying to PVP, so they resort to ridiculing those who dont pve with them the way they would like to. hope sorrows furnace will appaise u)

I must confess that i am of those u soo rightly put it " skip chatpers of the book to get to the end". i made 6lvl 20 and i have never done the mission between ascalon and sanctum cay more than twice and only finished the last mission once. The reason for that is that i am not interested in doing something over and over again. Doing something once or twice is fun but more is just like grinding which i thought this game's philosophy was against.
Then why 6 char u may ask, the answer is simply skill points. i had realised that it was far easier to create a char then lvl it to 20 then use it skill points and deletle than having to constantly grind to get the nxt skill point on the old character. This is also why most simply run.

There is also the problem of most PUG being by far worse than the lengedary henchies. So most players have realised that they better take henchies than wait 30min for a pug then achieve nothing. This is also why it feels so empty.

One last point which has nothing to do with this :
This games isnt an MMorpg where u spent hours grinding and role playing, and i completly disagree with the politically correct statement that this game is "50%pve 50% pvp and they are interdependant". This isnt the case, this games mostly caters for pvp, the pve side is only the training ground where u get to learn about your char and capture skills. Running throu the game, getting to max lvl easily, getting skills easily with faction and skill points ... all of that which makes the game very accessible and easy to finish are an intent so that one may start to PVP quickly.

To conclude, making a post everyday about how a.net should stop low lvl people getting ran or that they should make some kind of barrier prevneting low lvl char from accesing high end content isnt the purpose of this game. if u which to take your time lvling then why do u complain some have it the easy way

The point is that I can unlock skills with less work. This is a good thing. I do more than enough work at my job; I don't feel the need to do more work for a game.

Why should I or anyone else care if I "discover the world" or not? Some people like exploring, and I'm glad they're enjoying themselves. I don't like it. It's not like having less of my world map filled out is going to affect my PVP game. I can look up what all the skills do and go get any that I want to try.

I find the PVP game to be quite satisfactory for the money I paid. I don't see how spending my time doing something I don't enjoy would make the cost more worthwhile.