Ok, I've been involved in a rather depressing thread over at GWO (see it here ) and I would like to instigate some action.
I myself am a Smite Team player. A lot of people hate smite. Now, since I'm more interested in the health of the metagame than I am in winning in its current state, I would like to ask the GW Tombs-playing Community to start sharing and collaborating on strong builds which can stand up to smite.
Let's not have a silly vocal minority nerf this game into oblivion every time a dominant flavor of the month build comes out. Let's show them that all you have to do is adapt to the metagame, and thereby shift it in a new direction.
Thanks.
a call for Tombs Builds which can stand up to Smite
primitiveworker
Nash
Ether Renewal is overpowered. Flavor of the Month is for noobs with no clue, but disregarding real balance issues as Flavor of the Month is a mistake.
primitiveworker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Ether Renewal is overpowered. Flavor of the Month is for noobs with no clue, but disregarding real balance issues as Flavor of the Month is a mistake.
So, rather than disrupt the ability of the Ether Renewal user to spam spells and keep enchantments (each of which are easy, and widely applicable) you'd ask ANet to change the skill too?
Spura
Quote:
Originally Posted by primitiveworker
you'd ask ANet to change the skill too?
Pretty much.
Nexx
I love my zealot fire on my warrior and like to spam tactics skills... but errr.. shatter enchantment owns me so I'm not entirely convince that Zealot fire is m4d pwnage.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Ether Renewal is overpowered. Flavor of the Month is for noobs with no clue, but disregarding real balance issues as Flavor of the Month is a mistake.
lol. ether renewal is overpowered, and will be nerfed. but fotm is not for noobs, plenty of guilds got their reputation from running spirit spam just last week. the trick is to have a 'modified' fotm, and most completely original builds dont work.
if i may ask you, what builds do you play in tombs right now?
if i may ask you, what builds do you play in tombs right now?
primitiveworker
Let's try to stay on topic: Tombs team builds which can disable a Smite team. Consider the common counters to Smite, and try to not be vulnerable in the same way.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by primitiveworker
Let's try to stay on topic: Tombs team builds which can disable a Smite team. Consider the common counters to Smite, and try to not be vulnerable in the same way.
ok sorry i get diverted alot. anyway i see the problem with smite teams is they are beaten by better smite teams... i was once in one of those 'modified' fotms that won hall a few times, they were running 3 monks, but only 1 emo/warrior pair. the othe rwas a pretty standard n/r. and instead of the pair there was a mesmer and a fire ele (also emo to confuse people).
the trick was the meteor shower + other aoes ( i was the nooby smiter so im not sure what s/he did exactly
) coupled with the smites was more effective at aoe damage, while someone (i forget who.. some ele secondary) was trying to snare them into the huge aoe (smite + fire) with ward against foes.
basically this was a pretty good build to run, only we totally owned the hall because the smite aoe coupled with meteor shower + fire storm on the altar was total pwnage.
just like the spirit spam.. they were beaten ony by better spammers. BUT its only been around for like a week now and im not the most experienced player out there, so lets hope theres a non smite that can pull it off
the trick was the meteor shower + other aoes ( i was the nooby smiter so im not sure what s/he did exactly
) coupled with the smites was more effective at aoe damage, while someone (i forget who.. some ele secondary) was trying to snare them into the huge aoe (smite + fire) with ward against foes. basically this was a pretty good build to run, only we totally owned the hall because the smite aoe coupled with meteor shower + fire storm on the altar was total pwnage.
just like the spirit spam.. they were beaten ony by better spammers. BUT its only been around for like a week now and im not the most experienced player out there, so lets hope theres a non smite that can pull it off
Zeru
I made up a spot outline which should prove decent in another thread.
3 monks. 2 heal 1 prot 2 seeds is needed as well as aegis/guardian/shielding hands.
2 Mesmer/Necros. Diversion Symp visage, enfeebling blood/shadow of fear, mantra inscriptions, energy drain, signet of humility, arcane echo/rend.
1 El/mo Warder/basic prot.
2 Hammers with JI
Mesmers shutdown the elmos, an enemy mesmer, or enemy monks depending on team setup. Half attention of a mesmer on a monk, and two hammers will make killing not too hard. The teams with only two monks will go down fast.
Warder is there to keep your team alive long enough for the elmos to be neutralized. Warrior hate is to prevent energy denial via fear me. Overuse sympathetic visage.
Sidenote: Smiting is not overpowered, ether renewal is. If you think Ether Renewal is fine you should end every post with a sig of "I have no clue what I'm talking about."
Second sidenote: Try airspike. Carry multiple copies of Rends, energy management (perhaps Ether Renewal
), and coordinate your spikes on the elmos first.
3 monks. 2 heal 1 prot 2 seeds is needed as well as aegis/guardian/shielding hands.
2 Mesmer/Necros. Diversion Symp visage, enfeebling blood/shadow of fear, mantra inscriptions, energy drain, signet of humility, arcane echo/rend.
1 El/mo Warder/basic prot.
2 Hammers with JI
Mesmers shutdown the elmos, an enemy mesmer, or enemy monks depending on team setup. Half attention of a mesmer on a monk, and two hammers will make killing not too hard. The teams with only two monks will go down fast.
Warder is there to keep your team alive long enough for the elmos to be neutralized. Warrior hate is to prevent energy denial via fear me. Overuse sympathetic visage.
Sidenote: Smiting is not overpowered, ether renewal is. If you think Ether Renewal is fine you should end every post with a sig of "I have no clue what I'm talking about."
Second sidenote: Try airspike. Carry multiple copies of Rends, energy management (perhaps Ether Renewal
), and coordinate your spikes on the elmos first.
primitiveworker
Signet of Humility, Diversion, Blackout and any number of Interruption and Enchantment Removal skills make Ether Renewal useless. Disabling the E/Mo smiter also turns off the smite bomb, so you've effectively removed two enemies from play.
Ether Renewal doesn't do anything at all if they have no enchantments or cannot spam spells. It may be powerful when it works, but turning it off is easy enough.
Is say this as a smiter who has been turned off effectively time and again. Once the E/Mo's are turned off they can be slaughtered.
I am inclined to agree that it may be a bit too powerful, because I can start the engine up immediately after being res'd with a signet at 25% energy. In the seconds it takes to cast Renewal, Boon, Reversal, Aura of Rest, Zealots, I'm at full operating capacity again.
But Well of the Profane and Nature's Renewal can be used to significantly diminish the ability for an E/Mo to spin back up to full operation from res. That's the only real unfair advantage I see: they become immediately effective upon res.
Ether Renewal doesn't do anything at all if they have no enchantments or cannot spam spells. It may be powerful when it works, but turning it off is easy enough.
Is say this as a smiter who has been turned off effectively time and again. Once the E/Mo's are turned off they can be slaughtered.
I am inclined to agree that it may be a bit too powerful, because I can start the engine up immediately after being res'd with a signet at 25% energy. In the seconds it takes to cast Renewal, Boon, Reversal, Aura of Rest, Zealots, I'm at full operating capacity again.
But Well of the Profane and Nature's Renewal can be used to significantly diminish the ability for an E/Mo to spin back up to full operation from res. That's the only real unfair advantage I see: they become immediately effective upon res.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by primitiveworker
Quote: Originally Posted by primitiveworker Ether Renewal doesn't do anything at all if they have no enchantments or cannot spam spells. It may be powerful when it works, but turning it off is easy enough. if im in a jam like that all you need is like 18 energy; ether renewal, when you don you have like 10 energy so aura, then hit draw for some regen, put up zealots, and spam draw. i agree its not the funnest thing but the only time im in that kind of jam is when i get resd (usually)
Quote:
Is say this as a smiter who has been turned off effectively time and again. Once the E/Mo's are turned off they can be slaughtered.
not entirely true... slaughtering emos doesnt take 10 seconds. and once again you cant exactly ignore tanks, they have res sig and can do a bit of damage on their own (something thats taken me a bit of time to learn really)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by primitiveworker
I am inclined to agree that it may be a bit too powerful, because I can start the engine up immediately after being res'd with a signet at 25% energy. In the seconds it takes to cast Renewal, Boon, Reversal, Aura of Rest, Zealots, I'm at full operating capacity again.
But Well of the Profane and Nature's Renewal can be used to significantly diminish the ability for an E/Mo to spin back up to full operation from res. That's the only real unfair advantage I see: they become immediately effective upon res. natures renewal wont do a thing - only works on maintained enchants ( with the -1 energy regen) smiters dont use those. as to well of profane, its usually a war of corpses all over agan. the necros use traversa/consume to keep it under the lid, and if the enemy isnt useing corpses you make your own. and actually if im resd at 20 energy i dont go straight back to fully operational - i need to cast zealots, renewal, aura, and *then* im back. this is easy at full energy and when theyre all recharged, but are a pain if you just used them before you died. so all in all those are counters people use, but they arent as effective as you make them seem. (you cant base a build on it)
primitiveworker
Nature's Renewal still makes all enchantments take twice as long to cast, and so are twice as easily interrupted.
twicky_kid
i do see ether renewal as a problem in balance. everyone is yelling just remove it its easy. WRONG. only 2 spells on the entire game can remove all enchantments in 1 shot and 1 will most likely kill you if you remove all the enchantments that the ele/mo uses. single enchant removal won't work. it is quickly covered up by reversal, guardian and breeze.
only way i see this being interrupted is a small team of mes all using shatter enchantment on the same target at once. it will be changed soon. hopefully before this becomes a wild fire like natures did. at least natures took "some" skill to use. this build is totally newb friendly.
knives
Well of Profane
Signet of Humility Mantra of Inscriptions Diversion All of those shutdown an E/Mo smiter. Mass degen also kills smite teams. Conure phantasm + well of suffering + tainted + etc will work. If you dont want to delve into the death line because you are afraid of martyr monks, go curses and combo suffering + faintheartedness + conjure phantasm 3 + 2 + 5 = 10 degen. Not too hard to spam degen on everything. You could even put iron mist on them and the degen would still work.
Ensign
Find the best tools to shut down opposing smiters. Then work those into your own team, add a couple of Emo smiters, and go wreck people.
People never listen. Peace, -CxE Tevash Szat
To make the e/mo worthless is either have a diversion spammer while they r spamming draw condition since they probably wont notice it, backfire which will hurt them alot, or have a ranger fire a distracting shot into the draw conditioning. Oh yea, seed does help alot against smiters.
Swifty
quick casting + Backfire + Conjur phantasm + phantom pain=E/Mo death
GreatLich
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Find the best tools to shut down opposing smiters. Then work those into your own team, add a couple of Emo smiters, and go wreck people.
People never listen. Peace, -CxE Isn't that kinda like... Fighting Zealot's Fire with Zealot's Fire? ;p Warskull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifty
quick casting + Backfire + Conjur phantasm + phantom pain=E/Mo death
Ether renewal heals, in fact it usually outheals backfire.
magicplayer.exe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warskull
Ether renewal heals, in fact it usually outheals backfire.
then lets do this then
quick casting + Backfire + Soul Leech + Conjur phantasm + phantom pain=E/Mo death or you could always use an enchament removel after the backfire Cranky
Spinal Shivers, Backfire, Dazed, Migraine/AC, Diversion, Enchant Removal, can all easily take down an E/Mo smiter. All you need to do to completely shutdown a Smiting group is run a few more */Me's and Me/*'s.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Find the best tools to shut down opposing smiters. Then work those into your own team, add a couple of Emo smiters, and go wreck people.
People never listen. Peace, -CxE let me just expand a bit on what you said and post a build which is probably more powerfull than the standard 2 emo/warrior pairs and monks. so the list of 8 people should be: n/r me/e heal monk #1 heal monk #2 prot monk emo smiter warrior -damage dealer- its like a modified smite build - you have one emo smiter/warrior of your own. that part is obvious, you just let them be emo the 3 monks is pretty obvious too the necro should be part ranger mostly for frozen soil, and his job should mainly be to spread disease, debuff the *primary* target, and use corpses (skills i would use: consume corpse, tainted, chilblains, rend, well of profane, soil, etc) the mesmer should shut down the emos, and ive never played a mesmer in tombs, but from what i hear a mesmer should be able to atleast shutdown one emo, if not two. i put in the me/e just as an idea, maybe the mesmer can setup wards (the only one you really need is ward against foes), and maybe since its also earth magic, iron mist can help alot too damage dealer is the other part - you wont be able to kill a team with just a warrior and an emo, so you need someone else to actually do damage (your necro/mesmers wont be doing much, they play support here). i usually bring a fire ele for this, working with the already aoe-ish damage of the smiter you can really hamper the monks. and meteor shower is excellant in king of the hill maps (the most notable one being the hall of heroes) so all in all, with the mesmer working the emos, the warrior/emo working the monks, and the fire ele just doing as much damage as possible, you should be able to beat a standard emo team. *edit: you can go n/e and me/r with the necro setting up wards/debuffing with the mesmer just bringing soil. this may actually work better than the mesmer setting up wards, and ive actually tried a ward necro (they work  ) so that may actually be better.
Pinch
Use Power Leak when they try to use Ether Renewal. If you have crappy reflexes though, don't try.
White Designs
After the patch, I don't believe N/R deserves to exist in tombs, and N/Anything is sketchy at best.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Designs
After the patch, I don't believe N/R deserves to exist in tombs, and N/Anything is sketchy at best.
umm why? ive seen n/mo as prot, some domination/curses n/me, n/e for wards.. theyre good as a utility character doing everyone elses dirty laundry
why dont you like them? White Designs
Well, I can't think of any way how a N/Mo prot is better than a Mo/X prot, or of how N/E warder is better than a E/N warder, or especially how a N/Me can come close in terms of curses and domination to a Me/N, considering the long cast time of a lot of the good curse skills (rend, lingering, etc.)
timmo567
I've been using an E/N lately
13 energy storage, 10 death, 11 curses Chiblains Strip enchant Rend enchantments Rigor Mortis Glyph of lesser energy (probally gonna swap out due to 30 sec. recharge) Lingering Curse Well Of Profane Res sig Chiblains the warriors carrying the smites, Rend 1 E/Mo, then Lingering Curse + Rigor Mortis the 2nd, and get your team on the second one. Obviously hex removal hurts but it seems to work ok. The biggest problem is when the E/Mo's are spamming reversal, becuase the chiblains hits the reversal and not the aura. EDIT: Havn't read any posts, but just thought of this. 2 necros, spiking chiblains, 1 Ele warder with ward against harm. Zelots fire now does shit all damage and the 2 chiblains should hopefully remove the auras. The necros then rend an ele each ect. Avantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Designs
Well, I can't think of any way how a N/Mo prot is better than a Mo/X prot, or of how N/E warder is better than a E/N warder, or especially how a N/Me can come close in terms of curses and domination to a Me/N, considering the long cast time of a lot of the good curse skills (rend, lingering, etc.)
The main point of a N/X isn't really to use curses. The Necro primaries are usually necro primaries to use runes to boost blood/death (usually blood) to 16. Though I do agree that there is far less reason to be a necro primary, rather than another primary, except in very specialized builds because soul reaping just isn't very useful in PvP. Count
This is my guild's smite hate build.
Me/N Diversion Energy Drain {E} Inspired Enchantment Drain Enchantment Rend Enchantments Shatter Enchantment (seeing a theme here?) Well of the Profane Rez Signet (attributes from the top of my head, might be off a bit) 9 Fast Cast 14 Domination 11 Inspiration 7 Death 3 Curses 2x +20% Inspiration skill recharge, 1x +20% Inspiration Cast speed It is essential that you rend the E/Mo from Zealot fire immediatly. Don't bother with the Warrior's Balth Aura too much, it will run out in 12 seconds anyway. Tab through all targets and strip whatever enchantments they have while dropping a Diversion here and there. You can't allow yourself to focus on 1 target too much, so keep tabbing (shift+tab selects previous target in case you tab too quickly). Don't allow yourself to go below ~10 energy to keep Inspired/Drain enchantment online. Even if you're not up against smiters this build will still perform quite well as hardly any build is completely devoid of enchantments.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Designs
Well, I can't think of any way how a N/Mo prot is better than a Mo/X prot, or of how N/E warder is better than a E/N warder, or especially how a N/Me can come close in terms of curses and domination to a Me/N, considering the long cast time of a lot of the good curse skills (rend, lingering, etc.)
actually if you want to have someone exploit corpses at all, it has to be a n/_
pump soul reaping to 10, and then bring consume corpse. that way you can always at least use consume corpse when someone drops. n/mo as a prot is effective because you dont actually need 16 prot to be a decent prot monk, and 16 soul reaping gives you a large energy boost when someone dies. its really just for energy, and im not a big fan of the n/mo prot myself as to a warder, some builds dont have space for a e/n to *just* do wards. notably in the ones i play, you really need the necro to double team and exploit corpses/debuff ppl/setup wards. its a pretty full list, and its not an easy job. and just fyi, last night i setup a pug in the build i mentioned. it was awesome, we beat the 13th legion (in the uw map, that was great), nintendo power, a pug of all plus/13th members, it was way awesome. (our pug was r3+ ). so it actually works ^^ (we LOST in the hall to some koreans. i did something dumb and we ended up getting shafted by both teams. it sucked.)our only weak point was relic runs... we only managed to win 2 of those because we were up against some pretty crappy groups. well w/e... beating those guilds was dam satisfying
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