Thunderhead Keep ''Mission Impossible''?

Hey

I tryed Thunderhead for several times with my N/Me and we just keep failing even with the best party's ever we just keep failing it. I only made it with my warrior after exactly 37 tryes. I hope more ppl think the same about thunderhead as me so we can work out a plan or let Anet do something about it.

Greetz boy

Hey,
I tried the Thunderhead Keep mission 3 or 4 times, with my R/Mo
it's all about team work, you have to get rangers at the ballista, and let no1 in the keep...
And keep an eye on the king, maybe keep a monk near him....

You just need long ranged players, Warriors, and monks...
That's all I can say lol... It worked for me

Bring domination skills such as diversion and arcane thievery. The only real issue is keeping Jalis alive. Impossible ? No.. I just did it today with all henchmen, then again with another PC and henchmen.

Should they change the mission? Yes.

Why? After a while, the siege on the keep becomes tedium. I counted at least 15 minutes where I was killing Mursaat or Mantle in simple pairs that kept coming and coming, each 2 minutes apart from the next (more than enough time to recoup). I was late for class, so I just let the damn thing run with henchmen while I went afk. When I came back, I had won the mission.

So, since 7 henchmen can do it, why does Anet insist on stuffing it down our throats for 30 mins? God, we know there's a siege. We can take on a Mursaat ok? After the first wave and boss, does there REALLY have to be 20 more minutes of the same thing?

Gah...

A single Healing Seed or another spell of that kind will keep the King alive. Healing Seed seems to counter Spectral Agony quite well. But that is probably not the point. I've done the mission for quite some times and completed it in 80% of those times.

And besides agreeing with Lasareth that the Siege gets boring real fast (seriously... after you've defended the first few waves you get enough of time to organize a small dance party with the typical wa/mo screwing the synchro...).

The key to this mission is to be prepared for the siege and you need to be real picky about your team. When i'm there to help a friend i allways insist on forming the party and while doing so following some simple things i figured out while forming partys real often and seeing which of those succeed and which fail.

First off
You don't need more than 2 semi-decent monks for the mission. More is just a waste and a real lack in firepower too. Don't worry if you can't find the monks yet, they'll be flowing in real soon.

Here is the list of classes if found exceptionally useful in this mission and what skills they brought:

A Trapper (don't care if the ranger is a primary or secondary trapper, as long as he doesn't have warrior as his primary {due to the low energy})
A Hydromancer or a Geomancer. Why those two? Snares. A well placed ward against foe really helps a lot in this mission. Same goes to the Hydromancer spamming snare spells and especially maelstroem.
A Mesmer or a necromancer. When taking a necromancer just be sure you didn't get your typical lousy played Minionmaster (don't get me wrong, minionmasters can be useful now and then, but they often screw your teams positioning). Take also precautions to not get an IW Mesmer (once again, IW Mesmers can be great but most are lousy and they are chewing on your monk's energy like a mad person anyways)

Notice how those are mostly classes and Attribute Lines your average Guildwars "Ownzorizer" regards as being noob. By taking them in you've therefore achieved three things. First off, they work as a ward against noobs (not referring to that guild, gnarr :P). As you're bound to have those noobs moan about those classes. Take no hesistation to kick them out if they do. Even if it is like the only playermonk around. Second, they are a great contribution to your team. They really are, just make sure they do their job. But don't tell them how do it. They'll know best. Third off, by publically declaring you're taking those classes in you tend to attract the better players.

So start forming your team by announcing something along the lines of:

Looking for: 1 Ranger (Trapper), 1 Hydro or Geomancer (Snares), 1 Mesmer or Necromancer. Whisper me

The last part is probably the most important part about forming a group for Thunderhead Keep. Insist on that last passage. Let NO ONE in who did not whisper you. This is to make sure they know how to use the chat and they don't have it turned off alltogether. Communication is really important in that mission as well as having a plan. So once again to outline it some more, take no one in who didn't whisper you. This is also usefull to sort out asshats. You'll mostly notice by their name and their choice of words. If you're not sure just pretend to be busy (you'll probably be anyways) and let him or her wait a minute. That is not the nicest way but it is a good way to see if they have a bit of patience. If they start flaming - just ignore them alltogether. If they patiently wait a bit, just whisper them with a sorry and an explanation about being busy.

After you've had some stress and searching your team is now filled with like ~5 spots of people who know a bit of patience, are happy they have been taken into the team and are most probably chatting around and getting to know each other. If they are not, make sure they are by bringing up a topic or stuff like that. If you can get them to like each other, great thing

Once you've set up your team this way you'll notice how suddenly you attract the interest of monks. Speak to them, whisper them (they are somewhat special in most cases) and chat a bit with them. If they refuse to chat, no loss. If they insist on a third monk. Refuse, no loss.
Try getting two warriors or you'll probably have to have the Geomancer tank (they can do quite well i might add).

Once your team is full, don't go in just yet. Explain the plan to your team. Make sure everyone knows his place. Man the catapults and tell your team the trapper will save its ass by trapping the doors and some other random chokepoints. And make sure no one but the monks speak to the king in the first part.

Well after that, the mission is a piece of cake and really pleasant to do, except for the fact the siege tends to get boring real fast. If you didn't figure out: Have the Ranger trap the Doors. Have your ranged fighters man the catapults AND work as a scout as to from which direction the enemys are coming. Have your snaremasters put up some ward against foes or deep freeze them. This makes sure none of the mursaat or Jades break through (the AI stops with their current action when they get snared and attack their nearest target).
After you've cleared a wave head back into the middle (about the place you killed Stonepate). Rinse and repeat. Done.

I just tryed it again and lost again im rly thinking about quiting GW now they change a monk build and then keep this mission so hard let them do something about this mission i think lots a ppl get stuck here...

this missions easy as hell, find a good monk before doing this. just make sure you got a good full heal monk, no hybrid / half smiting crap.

at the end have 3 1 monk at east, 1 monk on west, and have mhenlo stay neutral. rangers, necros, eles on the catapult. 1 on each, and stay there.

and: always bring mhenlo for this mission

That is just funny as you'll never really need more than 2 monks in PVE. No matter where you are, 2 are just enough. The more monks you bring, the less efficient they are. They'll double and triple heal a party member and the lack of one damage-dealer/interrupter/whatever is seriously weakening your team. To be honest, besides thinking more than 2 monks EVER (PVE) is overkill, having more than 2 is cutting down your damage that much that you can't finish of the waves fast enough and will be slowly but steadily fighting a battle with dwindling resources. And trust me, i'm playing a monk with challenges up to completing Hells Precipice as the only monk on the team.
The only reason to bring two monks is to have a full specced healer and a full specced protector. Bringing one more is cutting down the efficiency of either the healer or protector. If you don't stand fighting with just two monks bring a necromancer. Have him specced on blood and woooosh, your two monks will work as if they were 10 monks without clobbering up party space (Blood is Power, Well of Blood and stuff like that...).

I beat it with henchies my fifth time and never had to change my tactics.
3 from the left door and 3 from the right door over and over for like 1/2 an hour, WTF kind of seige is that any way?
"Alright men, there are eight humans in there. We outnumber them about 300 to 1 and the man we realy want to kill is standing in the open ontop of a wall, perfect target for long range assault. So, lets all proceed inside in groups of three serperated by two minute intervals."
"Sir,yes,Sir!"
"Hey, slow down! Walk don't run!"

It took me 6 times but I finally di

A: Balance your team Ive done this mission easily with a person quitting each time.
1 ranger
2 monks
1 ele
1 necro
3 warriors

Early on while defending the keeps have 3 teams, 2 small ones manning ballistas and a 3rd running back and forth between the two. eliminate the 1st wave and fall back to the staircase near the king

hold the staircase with some ppl operating ballistas, only fight on the staircase not at the gates.

this way your necros well of blood is concentrated, your monks can heal you and the king your ele can be more useful and your ranger can trap chokepoints easier....also if you all die near each other......use that little light of dwayna spell.

Did it my first time. Bring two monks, one for each side. Keep the groups together.

When time comes, split into parties. At least one warrior, elementalist, and monk on each.

It's really not hard at all. o.o

seriously, bring henchies. and stay next to the king. henchies are idiots. but in this case, better that pugs.

I was stuck on this mission for a few days with my warrior, then I joined my Guild and passsed it first try with them, so I think teamwork really realy helps, and PUGs don't always play nice.

But sometimes you get a *really good* PUG that gets you through the mission first try.

It just takes a lot of slogging through crap.

And, honestly, it's been like that for the latter half of the game (for me). For the first four tries or so, I get a horribly disorganized team and then I get a team that somehow works brilliantly together.

So really, I don't think it's a problem with the mission... although I agree about the length. It's probably the fact that it's pretty difficult to find a PUG that really works well together.

I might also add that sometimes the more fun PUGs are not the ones who complete the mission flawlessly. <3

Ya, I do agree with that. Truth be told I got lucky with the last 3 ‘Ring of Fire’ missions, I somehow got in with 3 really good PUG teams, I see it as pay off for hacking away at Thunderhead Keep for too long.

But, just like in the real world it only takes a few to give the large majority a bad name.

I laughed when I did this mission my first time. All of the horror stories I had from monks not completing it, all of the PO'd warriors who can't find a decent group for it...and I was playing a ranger.
First group, simple success. How? No, not 3 monks 3 eles and 2 warriors as I see in most groups looking to complete this mission.
Our group:
3 rangers: Two trappers (all with Barrage, very important), and me, using heals and barrage for dps. Rangers also using Judges Insight for holy damage on arrows.
2 warriors: Do what they do, simple tanks holding off the baddies while we spam arrows.
Lina and Mhenlo: Dumb mercs, but they are predictable. If they run in and die, it is probably your fault.
1 person who left because they saw 3 rangers when we zoned in (probably a monk, I don't remember)

Group goes like this...
I talked to King, and hang back while group moves up clustering mobs for barrage damage. Spam heals when warriors need them, heal King when he decides to fight. Kept Rebirth up, which is a teamsaver.

Move around the encampment clockwise, take out mobs easily by taking healers out first (you knew that right?) and spamming barrage. Easy.
Move into the keep, and take out mobs moving counter-clockwise. Easy.
Run to named leader guy, kill him, and wait for the siege.
If anything got hairy, I simply sat back to prevent the king from playing Leeroy and screwing the mission for all of us. Rebirth = god.

Now the assault, which was pathetic at best. Rangers trap each door, wait in middle to attack doors when mobs show. I think we had one person on cats, as it was not necessary to spam them the whole fight. Others may disagree, so let them.

Simply keep the group healed, and CALL TARGETS. It is not that hard, warriors, as this helps in taking down targets fast. Communication is key, and is why most people fail. Most groups, to my knowledge, fail this mission and display their communication skills when they search for a scapegoat. This is why people fail this mission.

Simply keep attacking the mobs moving up, and keep a barbed trap at each door to snare anything that sneaks up. Call targets, bunch up, barrage and it is simple.

This mission is "hard" because people do not communicate, or the leader does not know how to lead. Have one person dictate orders, not 3. Two different arrows on a map only slows down the fight and gets you killed.

People try to put 4 people at each door when you just have to stand right near the king with all 8. Bonus is the easiest in the game aswell. I did this mission with all henchmen and did bonus on my first attempt. With people I'd fail every time.

I actually like this mission because it's like hazing. It helps to filter out the stupid people.

I don't think that A-net should do anything about Tunderhead Keep mission. And yes out of 40+ tries I have been lucky enough to find 3 good groups to win with. 3 outta 40+ not bad. When you finally get to fire island chain, you will start to understand that Thunderhead Keep is a way to weed out noobs. I hate that word by the way. The mission are so much more difficult in fire islands, yet so much easier because most peeps know what they are doing. I really appreciate having Thunderhead, esp. since I have seen lvl 16s try to do Thunderhead.

keep thunderhead keep the way it is please.

I did thunderhead keep in my first try as a R/Me as I lucked out with an excellent PUG.

Important thing is to have 3 monks. Yes 3. Have one monk constantly focus on keeping the king alive and then have the other two doing the regular healing/protecting. The reason we did so well against the Mursaat was we stayed by the King and had two people man the catapults. When the Mursaat came through all grouped by the King and held them off. Actually I found Thunderhead Keep quite easy, just stick together and have follow the called target.

I know an easyer way to do it.. however i promised to never tell what it is so it does not get fixed... Im sure its not a big secret but if you know it please do not post it here for Anet to see

Legitly this mission is not hard, all it requires is 5-6 good people who actualy know what they are doing... one way i know of success was with a group of 5. Old strat, 1 person on one side for both pults (ele or rangers) other eles and rangers on bridge over door, monks and warriors in middle. 9 out of 10 (ok so its actualy only been 4/4 times) times my team uses that we do not lose.. everyone just has to know what they are doing this mission is as easy as pie and very fun

Could anyone please tell me why the Guildwars Community insists on creating their own nemesis? Especially on one side it is begging for atleast 2000 monks for a team and on the other hand it constantly screams nerf the monks...
Is it for the large number of run monk 105 copycats that barely know how to play their character or why do people cry for so large amounts of monk. No they are NOT needed. Not at all. Begging for more than 2 monks in PVE just shows an awful lack of skill and communication.
This thing gets me furious everytime i hear it. With every lousy 3 Mo / 3 Ele / 2 War group i see that states this group is the way to be and the only way to complete the game with. And sorry if i offend anyone, this is a very poor and sad level of skill you brought there. Variety is the key to playing PVE AND PVP (or trendwhoring...), so why do so many insist on the same failing tactic over and over again when all they achieve by doing it is running against walls, getting laughed at and crushed by both... PVE and PVP? I just don't get it, might be my mistake. I don't know. But when i see a tactic fail, and especially fail miserably i change it. However most people in Guildwars just keep bashing their heads against the wall just because "it worked once".
Sure you might get lucky and break through the wall. Big deal. You've just skipped your most important lesson in Guildwars and will now be running against the next wall which is either the next mission or UW or whatever.
Funny, isn't it? To see most of the UW Teams cutting through Aatxes and Darknesses and then see them fail as soon as they hit the Chaos Planes. Why? Just because their typical copied Team Setup just won't and will never work there and there is no guide to underworld yet from which they can copy their solutions.

People? This mission is quite easy, I do this with henches, see:

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/6492/gw0828zc.jpg

Thunderhead keep is one of the hardest missions i know, i did it first time with the beacons lit but i know from my guilds complaints and my subsequent failed efforts too aid them that this is one hell of a hard mission. My only tip is to try and take a couple of E/Mo players, these characters are the highest priority to the enemy AI ( I know they have priorities because i have regularly seen AI enemies run straight past me en route to the party monk while a pump some serious ranger damage into them), hopefully these characters would keep the AI attentions away from the king, his death being the main failing point of the mission.

that's because henchies are smarter than the average player

u definately need a mes for this mission cos backfire rapes the murssaat eles and empathy is wearing on the jades, also they can hold off quite a few people if the king is being attacked and monks are takina while to get ther

i beat it with my necro/Mesmer its not that hard

Yes Thunderhead Keep is hard, but think of the reason why; Joe Shortcut, hires a runner from Ascalon to Beacon's Perch, then another to Droknar's. Once there, he asks his guildmates to help him get to Ring of Fire, to get Elites. They agree and run him through Ice Caves and Iron Mines. But, when they come to Thunderhead, they have a problem; the entire party is needed to fight mobs and defend King. Thus, Joe is left out of the party until he learns to fight.

The alternative reason is that Thunderhead separates the good players from the bad, like Ascension should do.

Here endeth the lesson

It's just a matter of team work. This is what we did. we have 2 monks in the group, 3 warriors, 1 necro, 1 ranger, and 1 ele. have 1 monk and 1 warrior stay w/ Jalis to keep him alive. The rest fight the invading enemies. Most of the failure of this mission is that Jalis was killed. I am sure most of you are capable in fighting the enemy so just try to keep Jalis alive. When fighting, try to pick just 1 target at a time. that will make the fight easy. don't go attacking different targets coz it will take a long time for 1 player to kill a Mursaat or Jade.

Took me 30 $#%$# tries to do it! I finally did it with 6 ppl. You can do it!

First time I beat it with my Warrior in 5'th try. Second time I beat it in first try with my monk. You do not need 3 monks, 2 is more than enough (last time it was me and Mhenlo).
Try to take the position of the group leader and basically just tell people what to do. If you have someone who already beat the mission even better, because you can coordinate everyhing with them. Cooperation and Focus Fire is the key here.
Two Casters on the catapults are of great help since they can dramatically reduce the number of mob that comes your way.

Its doable.

I'm known in my guild as "the one who can do thunderhead" and get called upon to help peops through the mission.

All you need is a viable plan, and people to follow it. Take party leader role, Filter people via basic intelligence, (my usual example is pst for invite and don't let any blind invites in). Inform people that if they do not follow your plan, you will leave, and the group will fail. (Best using a monk to back that up).

Explain whatever plan you wish to use in advance, and then again as you get to the keep. Say "gj" or similar as you progress, make the team feel wanted

I just finished it with my ranger and henchies, wasnt all that tough. But I should mention that the 3-4 times I tried with human players, I didnt even get as far as to defend the damn castle.
My build if you're intrested:-
Trapper Ranger
13 Expertise (11 +1 +1)
9 WS (8+1)
10 Marks (9+1)
8 Healing

Penetrating Shot / Distracting Shot
Oath Shot {Elite}
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Infuse Health
Rebirth

Watcha Do - Whirl Def your way into the middle of enemy groups, plant traps, Oath Shot once, plant traps again if req. When the king starts tanking, hit Troll once and then Infuse Health. well.... its not rocket science is it?

Hohoho, very true

I might add that a protection monk can work wonders for dealing with the King's habit of dying.

My group split in two and we managed just fine. I think one warrior died because he decided to run out into the middle of things when the other monk was AFK, and I decided that running all the way out there wouldn't be beneficial to the goal.

It's really not that hard. I think what most PUGs fail to do is aquire a Mesmer (few of them realize the power of the class, alas, and there's great ignorance surrounding them, even as late as Thunderhead Keep). A guildy of mine needed help with the mission tonight, so I mapped over and we ran it with henchmen. He was a Wa/Mo, my primary is a Me/Wa, and we used: Cynn, Devona, Mhenlo, Eve, Lina, and Little Thom...oh, and of course King Jalis Ironhammer. Mad props to you, Jalis! You rock. Note that neither of us had any healing skills, but my guild comrad was using a hard res (he had to use it...once, I think).

Simply with the henchmen AI, we beat the thing. No balistas needed, no special tactics needed, no gate exploit needed, and we even got the Monk boss *along with* a regular Mursaat Monk. He thought we'd surely lose then, but he apparently forgot I was a Mesmer , and Mesmers own.

If I had it to do over with him, I'd have suggested Durham instead of Little Thom. Not that it would have made a huge difference...

Here's the screen cap, sorry for the low quality.

Remove hex and mend ailment work wonder too. The mission is pretty easy with one healing and one protection monk. I have seen many a party failing with two healers on the other hand.

I did this on my first attempt with w W/R.

At the end we just sat int he middle of the courtyard and killed anything that entered, we also activated teh bonus right form the start, and never suffered. Just stand in the middle and let no one past, do't run around don't separate, This makes the life your your healers easy, it also means other AoE protections can be used.

I like Thunderhead Keep because its the only mission that forces you to play at its own pace.

With all the other missions, you can kill, rest, regroup, etc, and take your time. There's no urgency.

I was in a semi-efficient PUG in Keep, and we had to panic-rush around to defend each doorway, just stopping each group in time etc. Great fun, and we won in the end.

Granted, a very efficient team might mop up quickly and stand around bored until the next group, but that's the price we pay I guess.

Now, that you mentioned a secret, aNet can check logfiles to see what you're talking about.

But the way I see it, that little advantage doesn't help too much.

I'm still trying to beat this piece of crap, but no I dont think it should be changed.

This mission is hard, and it takes teamwork. You really can tell what morons are in this game when you watch a tank and a monk aggro everything in the Keep one after another, with no rest inbetween. Like my last group...

Anyway, I'm trying to get a Guild's help with this, because I cant find any good user groups, and my Guild doesnt have enough members this far yet.