Spinal Shivers Shutdown

2 pages Page 2
G
Gabriel Fallen Monk
Academy Page
#21
PVP archer your a fool. Did you even try the build I listed or did you just jump right into criticism? I've played that so many times and I have never had any problems with energy. Penetrating doesnt work with eviscerate? am I confused or are you stupid. Its there cause it costs 5 adrenaline and does a nice chunk of dmg. smite hex? give me a break.

When it's played how its supposed to be smite hex is not a problem at all. I CRIPPLE FIRST dumba@@. that means I hit them enough to axe rake so that once i cast spinal i dont have to run all over gods creation trying to hit him. Or maybe you didnt read the rest of my post, the whole parasitic bond hex buff thing???? once again, the axe attacks do plenty enough dmg to knock them out quickly. and If i have someone else helping me (anyone ever heard of team arenas?) i may interrupt them three to four times. hmm thats about 25 energy with frenzy and sprint, about half of my total mana pool, which is constantly regenerating. do some research before you go calling people ignorant.
I
Iere
Frost Gate Guardian
#22
I was wondering when people would start using spinal shivers. It's a brilliant skill when used properly, with decent energy management- something that isn't all that difficult to do when you're a mesmer or elementalist primary.
Zenny
Zenny
Lion's Arch Merchant
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Gabriel Fallen Monk
hmm thats about 25 energy with frenzy and sprint, about half of my total mana pool, which is constantly regenerating. do some research before you go calling people ignorant.
You also have to consider your target is recovering energy as well, and when they cast they lose energy as well as you. Stack that with your Frenzy and Sprint and I'm sure you could find yourself out of energy before them if they constantly try to cast through.

The build is good damage, but lacks the ability to sustain Spinal Shivers with no way to gain energy. This is why Offering of Blood or Marksman's Wager (for Rangers) is required.
U
UberRusty
Banned
#24
God Zenny I didn't know you had an account on here...

This is my N/W build, and to be frank, it rocks. But if you're looking to shutdown someone completely, get a Mesmer.. I've ran this build in the past, those who may have faced it in 4v4 or Tombs may have noted as an "uncommon" sight, before I pummelled you to death. I don't run this build anymore. No point...

1. Flurry
2. Penetrating Blow
3. Dismember
4. Disrupting Chop/Executioner’s Strike
5. Malaise
6. Wither [E]
7. Spinal Shivers
8. Rez Signet

Notes: Malaise and Wither on team’s target, Spinal Shivers on the target you want to interrupt. ALWAYS keep Flurry on, otherwise you may not be fast enough to interrupt all spells/skills. Spam axe skills as they come up. I prefer Disrupting Chop for HoH; Executioner’s Strike for Arena.
V
Veraticus
Ascalonian Squire
#25
I went and rolled up a PvP character and used this build. I must say that it completely rocks; there's nothing like running up to the Monk or Elementalist on the team and completely owning them while they scream, "WTF I CAN't CAST?!?!?//<die>"

My only real problem is my survivability. I'm in the random 4v4, so I won't always get paired with warriors and monks, and if I run into their team first I almost invariably die. If I can live and get around the frontline then things work out gloriously; if not, then... not so great.

Interestingly, this build is good against almost everything. I can dispatch hybrid warriors with it quite easily, as well as rangers. The only real difficulty for me are pure warriors, especially of the hammer variety. If they aren't casting, but instead trying to pound me to death, I generally die.
S
Spura
Wilds Pathfinder
#26
I guess I will post mine, as it addresses the issue of arena survivability.
Copied directly from my guild's article section . Admins can put this into builds directory if they want.

Spura's Assasin

Necromancer/Warrior

Curses 10+4
Tactics 11 (10)
Swordsmanship 10 (11)

Spinal Shivers
Plague Touch (Parasitic Bond)
Sever Artery
Gash
Hamstring
Victory is Mine! {E}
Shield Stance (Watch Yourself, Distracting Blow)
Healing Signet (Frenzy)

Arena (8v8)

Icy sword of Defense and Shield

You may want parasitic bond in arena as well, depends on how much of a problem is hex removal.

Generally try to get close to target as possible before casting Spinal shivers. In arena that usually allows you to interrupt attempts to self remove hex. If you are pacting parasitic bond, then cast bond first to get through possible hex breaker. If you encounter hex breaker, watch for activation animation. After they activate it the second time, break it with bond and cast spinal shivers. Generally, try to have covered spinal shivers with parasitic bond all the time. Learn to recognize remove hex target (not casting) animation and you can detect smite hex, because you take damage. In that case recast Parasitic Bond. Also recast it if you receive 114 health. That means 20 sec timer has run out. Anyway, after spinal shivers is on target(and covered with bond if you are using 8v8 variation) just attack the target with sword and you will interrupt their skills. Use sword skills: Hamstring->Sever Artery->Gash. After that use Victory is mine, that should give you enough energy and health to keep going.

Ideally you will have poison ranger or disease necro on the team and with few enemies around you, you will easily get healed 300+ HP per victory is mine.
In arena use healing signet to avoid getting dotted to death and shield stance if you are getting focused. In 8v8 use frenzy cautiously.

Generally skills cost at least 5 energy(rangers are exception here). So in the worst case you are trading 5 en for 5 en, while doing damage and they get no effect. But usually you can get 5 en for 15 en.

Target Selection:

Elementalists are ideal targets:
- Exhaustion kicks in even if spell is interrupted
- Attunements don't give energy back if spell is interrupted. Those double attunement elementalists will soon find themselves out of energy.
- The have quite long spells and thus are easy targets for disruption at the rate of 1 per 1.33 sec.

Monks are good as well:
- Disrupting a few consecutive heals in arena often kills the monk.
- Sometime you can manage to disrupt few Reversals of Fortune in a row (0.25 sec cast).

You can disrupt Troll Unquent, various resurrects, preparations even warrior and ranger attacks. I even disrupted Power Spike.

Another funny thing in arena is people putting backfire and shame and stuff like that on me, after I have gotten the Spinal shivers off.
Enigmatics
Enigmatics
Jungle Guide
#27
Oh, ViM! That should help the energy issue more.
V
Veraticus
Ascalonian Squire
#28
I personally never experienced an energy issue. However, I really do like Spura's build (and I think I have enough faction for all the necessary sword skills) so I'll go give it a shot. ViM sure would increase survivability, at that, though I think I may stick with axe for now just since deep wounds are so terribly giggle-inducing.
U
UberRusty
Banned
#29
Quote: I must say that it completely rocks; The sound of skills being interrupted is beautiful. *sniff sniff*

Quote: Interestingly, this build is good against almost everything. I can dispatch hybrid warriors with it quite easily, as well as rangers. The only real difficulty for me are pure warriors, especially of the hammer variety. If they aren't casting, but instead trying to pound me to death, I generally die. Since Spinal Shivers will interrupt every skill, and you're generally hitting faster than Hammardins, blam blam blam, no more knockdowns for you! =D But to really test out builds to their full extent, I would find a couple PvP buddies and try out TA.

Quote:
Oh, ViM! That should help the energy issue more. The only way Spinal Shivers build experiences an energy problem is if you go onto a target for the whole match, OR, you stay on a target for 50 seconds while the target is stupidly spamming every skill on his skill bar while you're interrupting it... THEN you move onto another target.
S
Spura
Wilds Pathfinder
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by UberRusty
The only way Spinal Shivers build experiences an energy problem is if you go onto a target for the whole match, OR, you stay on a target for 50 seconds while the target is stupidly spamming every skill on his skill bar while you're interrupting it... THEN you move onto another target. I don't agree. Unless they pack a lot of signets and cheap skills you should be fine. You regen equal amounts of energy. They are bound to have some 10 or 15 energy skills, and those put you way ahead in energy race, enough that you offset any energy management(exception being energy drain skills in your face). Hitting Heal Party is just beautiful, 15 en down the drain. Whenever that happens, I am thinking "JACKPOT BABY!!!". One skill that can cause trouble is rez sig. Doesn't cost them anything to try in infinite times in a row. Usually if I have full energy pool, I just keep interrupting them, killing them before I run out of energy(if they have monks healing them, I let them rez).
S
Spura
Wilds Pathfinder
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Veraticus
I personally never experienced an energy issue. However, I really do like Spura's build (and I think I have enough faction for all the necessary sword skills) so I'll go give it a shot. ViM sure would increase survivability, at that, though I think I may stick with axe for now just since deep wounds are so terribly giggle-inducing. I would keep the sword. Sword has cripple on demand, axe doesn't. And this is critical, since you don't have strength, being secondary war, sprint sucks for you. Besides I like bleed + deep wound + cripple. Much more useful than deep wound+weakness+cripple. Weakness doesn't help much on casters, bleed on the other hand is always useful(and it has low adren cost). You can also try "I Will Avenge You!" instead of shield stance. It stacks with frenzy. With both on, you attack each 16/27th of a second or each 0.6 sec. But if you are the first guy focused in arena, tough luck.
V
Veraticus
Ascalonian Squire
#32
If you don't mind me asking, Spura, why did you decide on Shield Stance as a defensive option? One of my primary problems with this build (so far) is that casters will almost instantly try to run from me once I start interrupting them. Though I am still using axe with this, which is not particularly optimal for crippling, I'm not sure I like the idea of being slowed another 33%...
U
UberRusty
Banned
#33
Quote: I don't agree. Unless they pack a lot of signets and cheap skills you should be fine. You regen equal amounts of energy. I've only used this build a lot in a 4v4 environment, only a few times in Tombs. The 4v4 build I run already has a shutdownner. So I go for the casters. Why?

1) Casters generally have slower casting spells.
2) Monks are already completely shutdown.

And since this is 4v4, even though the casters have already been interrupted around 10 times, they keep on casting. Therefore, they have a larger energy pool than me with their Elemental + Element Attunements, and sometimes I find myself running out of energy. And then they got WTF NUB HAX OMG when they lose.
K
Kyune
Ascalonian Squire
#34
Spent several hours testing a Spinal Shivers build today, and just found this thread about five minutes ago...haha.

I tend to be more offense-minded, and this is what I came up with for a W/N, based on what I have available (still missing a lot of locked runes)

Tactics 10(11)
Swordsmanship 10(11)
Curses 11

Frenzy
Bonetti's Defense
Hamstring
Hundred Blades
Thrill of Victory
Galrath Slash
Final Slash
Spinal Shivers

Generally speaking the strategy was pretty much the same--find a caster, and use shivers, hamstring to slow them down. From there I pretty much launched into frenzy and blasted away with the sword skills. If necessary (or oppurtunity permitted), I would use Bonetti's defense to protect myself and recharge my energy for later shivers.

I'd have to say results were mixed though--some targets died pretty quickly, while others were able to escape via their teammates' efforts. And usually this resulted in my death not too long afterwards--what really, really hurt me the most was fragility comboing and blindness, coupled with the extra damage taken through frenzy.

At this point I would definitely agree flurry is more appropriate, although it may be better to use berserker stance--it doesn't take use up shivers energy and it helps build adrenaline for the big attacks along with bonetti's defense.
R
RukusTrueshott
Ascalonian Squire
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Pvp Archer
Er... Penetrating blow doesn't work with evis/exec/rake, why can't I fight more ignorant people like you who think they have "perfected" their build when it actually sucks. =/ One smite hex and you're done. Also, frenzy and sprint both cost energy, it's not just spinal. What do you mean penblow doesn't work with those skills.. it's just a dmg skill lol.... i dunno maybe i missed something im just browsing this half assedly.
S
Spura
Wilds Pathfinder
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by Veraticus
If you don't mind me asking, Spura, why did you decide on Shield Stance as a defensive option? One of my primary problems with this build (so far) is that casters will almost instantly try to run from me once I start interrupting them. Though I am still using axe with this, which is not particularly optimal for crippling, I'm not sure I like the idea of being slowed another 33%... Well I only use shield stance if I get focused. If enemy team is 3 W and 1 Mo, you aren't gonna do much interrupting, if wars kill you in first 20 sec of the match. Generally I don't use it. If one warrior keeps killing me while I pound on a monk I generally use ViM to tank the damage. Good trick here is to select warrior while attacking monk, then do sever artery on warrior and switch back to monk right away. Gives you 50 extra heal and 5 extra energy. No point in bleeding the monk every 4 hits if bleed lasts 17 sec. In that case I don't use Shield stance. Usually after a while warriors and rangers get me down to low HP. In such situation I like to use shield stance and heal sig(unless there is an ele on me). Better to live longer than to die for a few sec of denial.

2 more reasons 33% slow isn't that bad.
- Cripple makes them just as slow and when they cast, they stop and if spell is 2 sec or more, you can usually hit them, if you started next to them.
- Some people don't move
S
Spura
Wilds Pathfinder
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyune
Spent several hours testing a Spinal Shivers build today, and just found this thread about five minutes ago...haha.

I tend to be more offense-minded, and this is what I came up with for a W/N, based on what I have available (still missing a lot of locked runes)

Tactics 10(11)
Swordsmanship 10(11)
Curses 11

Frenzy
Bonetti's Defense
Hamstring
Hundred Blades
Thrill of Victory
Galrath Slash
Final Slash
Spinal Shivers

Generally speaking the strategy was pretty much the same--find a caster, and use shivers, hamstring to slow them down. From there I pretty much launched into frenzy and blasted away with the sword skills. If necessary (or oppurtunity permitted), I would use Bonetti's defense to protect myself and recharge my energy for later shivers.

I'd have to say results were mixed though--some targets died pretty quickly, while others were able to escape via their teammates' efforts. And usually this resulted in my death not too long afterwards--what really, really hurt me the most was fragility comboing and blindness, coupled with the extra damage taken through frenzy.

At this point I would definitely agree flurry is more appropriate, although it may be better to use berserker stance--it doesn't take use up shivers energy and it helps build adrenaline for the big attacks along with bonetti's defense. You are never gonna be able to keep interrupting, because of energy.
Bunch of other problems. In arena I would just DoT you when you come into cast range and ran. You'd never reach me to hamstring and you would die to degen. Or weakness + faintheardtedness + life siphon. You have no healing, and you'd die.
Let's take a look at energy. Frenzy is 5, spinal shivers is 10, hamstring 10, thrill of victory is 5, hundred blades 5.

So even with +12 energy focus, you will interrupt the target twice max. Then spinal shivers will end.

Practically, you have 1 damage combo and if you fail to kill target in that combo, you generally die. So anything that prolongs the fight will ruin your build, just about any warrior hate skill and any healing. Your interrupting is minimal, which makes you a crappy warrior without strength. If enemy team has no casters, you stand no chance in warrior 1v1.

My build can outheal most mesmer and necro damage by using heal sig+vim, and vim lets me heal without stopping attacks. If I go 1v1 vs warriors I have about 75% chance of winning. The only ones I can't defeat are W/Mo and warriors who run with sprint to get room to heal. I serve their conditions back to them, and I keep getting healed by ViM, and they don't get healed cos I interrupt heal sig/troll/whatever. You on the other hand won't outlast a warrior.

Sorry, but I don't think your build works.
S
Sigil
Ascalonian Squire
#38
Tested this weekend (arena only):

Poor Man's Shivers Build

N/W - W/N simply doesn't have enough energy or regen to maintain a lockdown.

Curses - 11 (w/rune)
Swords - 12
Tactics - 8 (not really necessary, I just used it for messing around with other stances and shouts)

1st ver.
Spinal Shivers
Plague Touch
Sprint
Frenzy
Hamstring
Seeking Blade
Savage Slash
Res Sig

2nd ver. - after some testing.
Spinal Shivers
Plague Touch
Parasitic Bond
Sprint
Frenzy
Hamstring
Wild Blow
Res Sig

The theory behind both versions is lockdown and kill 1 target. To achieve lockdown you have to land Spinal, avoid conditions, and break stances. Plague touch as soon as blind or cripple hit you and stay on target. Wild blow as soon as you start to see <block block block/evade evade evade> - since you use no adrenal skills wild blow has no downside. I am a big fan of non-attribute skills.

I found a lead/cover hex is necessary, viru/frag mesmers are getting more people to bring hex removal. Para bond isn't a great skill, but it works pretty well for this build because it gets you by hexbreaker, covers spinal, and gets you some much needed healing - without breaking your lockdown.

I call it a poor man's build because when I tested I didn't have any decent runes or many warrior skills at all. The ViM build sounds interesting, although I like not having to worry about adrenaline. One benefit to not having decent runes was a high base health, helped a bit with survivability.

I found Energy was not a problem until you have completely locked down your third target. If frenzy is on you can hit every spell a monk casts with the exception of the odd RoF - although you will still get about 50% of those too. Even with frenzy not on, you will interrupt most attempts to cast and most skills. I was surprised how effective this is against other warriors simply by disrupting their skills - however this build will generally lose to another warrior due to lower armor and no armor penetration. The other major weakness is hexes as necros have no real defense against crippling hexes - however, for the most part you are not a primary target so you can get behind the lines.
D
DarkAynjil
Frost Gate Guardian
#39
I found that the N/W combo could be devastating, but lacked survivability in 4v4 due to Degen/Frag builds, and no real healing.
My other SS is a Mes/Nec using SS, Faintheartedness to cover, and Distortion (4 illusion drops it to 2 mana cost to evade) coupled with Spirit of Failure (4 mana every time they miss 25% chance, but with distortion up, you lose 2, gain 4.) For the elite slot, i used Energy Drain, and carried Inspired Hex to get rid of Life xfer and Conjure Phantasm. After a Res Sig, and ether feast to keep your health up, you'll notice that you have NO damage, although I have literally wanded casters to death. :-)
It's survivable in Arena, and very viable in tombs, but there's no damage to the build, you are simply ruining someone's day. Also, at 11 curses, SS eats 6 mana for an interrupt, but I usually only ran outta mana after 2 mesmers drained me simeultaneously.
D
DarkAynjil
Frost Gate Guardian
#40
I will have to try ViM, though... The more I think about it, the more I think it could work.