peace and harmony bugged??

at my attribute level, peace and harmony is supposed to last 66 seconds, with a recast time of 45 seconds, now i know if i attack someone or do a spell that targets an enemy then it ends, but i am not doing that and it is running out in like 20 seconds, and no one is interrupting/removing it either

anyone else noticed this???

no, i use il all the time and it works fine

Actually it was changed in the update, now if you cast spells like aegis and heal party peace and harmony goes away.

I have the samething happening to me. I think it is just a bug though. At least I really hope that it is. It will suck if they don't fix it.

if that is true then thats pretty lame. Hopefully this is an unintetional bug that will be fixed soon.

ok yes they did screw up peace and harmony which is so not cool since it was a vital part of my favorite pvp monk build
for example if you use a glyph of lesser energy, peace and harmony ends.... VERY retarded

I did a /bug for aegis and heal party, maybe it would help if everyone submitted bugs for the spells they used to work...

It ends when you use Divine Boon, too.

Before you go reporting it as a bug, maybe you should make sure you understand how the spell works.

Peace and Harmony (Elite)
Elite Enchantment Spell. For (Min: 30 - Max: 90) seconds, target ally gains +1 Energy regeneration. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally attacks or casts a spell that does not target an ally.

Aegis doesn't target an ally
Heal Party doesn't target an ally
Divine Boon targets you
Glyph of Lesser Energy targets you

I would guess that the game doesn't consider you an ally of yourself. To me, this looks like a bug fix where the previous workings of the spell were bugged and now it works as described. That said, maybe it is buggy as target ally should not include you so you shouldn't be able to cast the spell on yourself.

i know this but this is an ELITE spell and shouldnt be so unuseful with stuff like divine boon, glyphs, and aegis. Those 4 spells should work under the peace harmony enchant or you might as well not even make it an elite. They need to change it that peace and harmony only ends if you attack or cast on an enemy.

I dont think thats gonna happen dude if u havent notice Anet is finaly trying to do away with the soloers... I just noticed last nite after the patch that there is no refunding of att. points witch is great but theres always a catch u cant rearange your att out of town anymore again trying to do away with soloers.

Or so i think.

I take it you haven't played a monk...

The skill descriptions are usually pretty explicit, you are included as a "target ally" but you are not included as a "target other ally". A spell like heal party may not have an explicit target, but you are certainly the implicit target as you get the divine favor bonus.

Of course it's possible the change was intentional, but it doesn't really fit with the rest of the mechanics of the game or even the name of the skill.

Regardless when something doesn't make sense and used to work differently, I'll take 10 seconds out of my game time to submit a /bug, if it's working as intended they can delete it.

Yourself is an ally - i just tried it, works just like befor here (kinda sure)

peace and harmony has nothing to do with soloing in my book. Its was decent elite for certain pvp builds turned useless by this update.

Yes. This spell was only marginally useful as an elite before the patch--it is difficult to justify this skill over taking some other elite. With this change, it makes it an easier decision to just pass on the skill since alot of good monk spells don't specifically target an ally, but instead target all your allies.

I suspect the change to this and other similar spells was intentional but has had unintended consequences: I don't know this for sure, but I bet the way it worked it was open to abuse in conjunction with many PBAOE spells from other professions.

I doubt it was intentional that it would make the spell useless for many common monk spells.

I would think a good fix would be to change the descirption to read
"...ends if that ally attacks or casts a spell that targets or affects a foe."

If you ask me, the actual point of peace and harmony is to give you +1 energy regen as long as you remain peaceful, ie. you don't cast offensive spells that target opponents, you don't attack, etc. Well, I may be overstepping my bounds here, but that's what the skill comes across as to me.

The build that I used before when I was the primary healer in a group always included peace and harmony. I could cast Heal Other, Heal Party, Healing Breeze, Orision of Healing, Mending, Restore Life, and Convert Hexes and not one of these would make peace and harmony end. Not one! Even casting peace and harmony again wouldn't end it. The only thing that would break PaH when I would use that build was when I attacked. Now I fart and the spell ends.

Everyone will have to get use to the nerfed Peace and Harmany.. not that it needed to be nerfed at all.... but the changes were perment.

Peace and Harmony ends whenever you use a skill that doesn't "target" an ally. This means that skills like Aegis, Heal Party, Blessed Signet, Divine Boon, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and dozens of other skills that did not previously end P&H now do. If the skill doesn't read "target ally" or "target other ally", it'll end Peace and Harmony. It came along with the change to Zealot's Fire which no longer triggers on skills that don't have a specific target like shouts and stances.

Yes, this nerfed P&H which was already a sub-par energy management skill. The best thing to do is hope that it gets changed in the future, and use other skills for the time being. If you want to be pro-active about it, maybe submit an evaluation of the skill and concise reasoning as to why it's underpowered to ArenaNet.

how do you know that?
now peace and harmony is useless to any efficient build i can think of. I seen absolutely nothing wrong with P&H before this unneeded change and have no idea why they added more variants that end it.
PLEASE anet fix this skill to how it was.

this was my primary means of energy regen. >.>

anyone have any REPLACEMENTS? I don't like to use OoB, or MoR...

WHAT ELSE IS THERE? *SIGH*

yeah it is about utterly useless now, elite my @$$

Energy Drain is the best energy management skill in the game for non-Ele primaries.

This is definitely an unintended bug, and I hope it gets corrected soon - I miss my regen =(

It seems like a consistancy thing to me. Look at other skills that work on "spells that target an ally" and they work the same way.

Does this mean P&H isn't underpowered? Of course not - it's probably one of the worst elites in the game right now. But it does mean that there's hope for it getting fixed if it was a result of a blanket change rather than a specific skill balance issue.

Logically I can understand with the changes that were made why it doesn't work the way it used to.

But my gut tells me that peace and harmony should not end when I cast Heal Party. (Especially when I see the divine bonus over my head which tells me I was the target)

Regardless I won't be using it any time soon...

Yeah I understand why it changed. But now that it is "fixed" for all "targetted" spells, they need to come adjust the balance of P&H. Obviously the intention of this spell is to grant you an E bonus as long as you perform "peaceful" actions.

They just need to change the spell to work as such.

When i first used peace and harmony after the update, i was wondering why it was ending.

After reading this thread and finding out WHY it was ending, i am absolutely appalled.

This was my favourite elite skill for healing my teammates and myself. I sometimes used it with divine boon so i could do a good job for my team and
keep my energy management fairly decent.

ArenaNet needs to consider changing peace and harmony back.

I'd also love to know why their public relations officer said that they have nothing against farmers, but the update was full of nerfs to the contrary.

They nerf the skills for solo players and at the same time, that nerf affects team players.

Such B.S. and i for one am not happy with this aspect of the update.
I thought everything was F'ing brilliant until i read this thread.
I'm tempted to rant on but i think i've made my opinion. >> <<

I think it's a good change. Now people will stop using that steaming pile of yak dung and start using better elites, slowly but surely raising the quality of play in this game. Anything that raises the quality of builds, even if it's something absurd like this change, has to be viewed in a favorable light.

Peace,
-CxE

Not to diss on your godly opinion here, but there WAS nothing wrong with it, therefore it WASN'T yak dung. I used to be able to keep my energy at a +1 state at all times (actually re-leveling back to normal with the -1 energy regen ankh). This allowed me +27 energy (before other energy+ mods from weapons) with the same regen. What's so crappy about that? Especially with a measly 5 energy cost. I think high 60s, 70s energy with regular regen is pretty damn good for a monk, considering the alternatives. Not to hate on any other monk elites, however. They are all pretty good if wielded correctly.

But I must agree in point that it has now BECOME a steaming pile of yak dung.

And I know, inherently, that when you mention builds you are talking about PvP builds, or at least I think you are. To a point, I agree that other elites may be better for PvP and GvG, however, not all builds are centered on player vs. player. And even considering the fact that in PvP/GvG you can have more than one monk, there is nothing bad about one having PaH as their elite. Sure it can be stripped just like any other enchantment, but as many have said before there is a counter to everything. It's what maintains balance.

DOnt want to turn this into a argument on whether or not peace and harmony was a good elite but when everything hits the fan and every monk becomes a pay check to pay check 5 energy heal to stay alive, that extra pip comes mighty useful in keeping your mana rolling at a constant pace so you have more breathing room. And in 8v8 if you have a 20% longer staff wrapping and 20% faster recast you can get all 3 monks the peace and harmony enchant and can easily do a two monk cycle keeping both under P&H at all times baring strip.

No, back when it worked with glyphs and Heal Party and the like it was a steaming pile of yak dung. Now that it no longer works with skills like Boon it is not worthy of being compared to yak dung. It's now some unspeakably bad monstrosity of an elite that makes you worse just by looking at it.


So your strategy was to trade your elite slot for a static boost of 15 max energy?

So you take an awful elite, and use it's effect to (almost) cancel out the drawback of a terrible main offhand item? Is this some version of the "Mending is awesome because it cancels the degen from Vampiric!" argument, just like 1000x worse?

I'd like to be able to explain just how awful that is. Unfortunately I'm having trouble understanding why someone would ever think that was good, so I can't exactly refute the argument.


I dunno man, that Unyielding Aura is a real winner. I've sat down and *tried* to find a use for that skill, and I still have absolutely no clue why you would ever take it under any circumstances whatsoever. The closest thing to a 'good' idea I've ever heard was setting up self-sacrifice / Unyielding Aura chains to set up perfect Edge of Extinction bombs. When that qualifies as a good idea for an elite skill you know you're in trouble.


Usually, yeah, but when I talk about skills I try and focus on where they're strongest. Spell Breaker is a Tombs elite, for example - Aura of Faith is strong in arena, Shield of Judgement in PvE, Healing Hands on WaMo PvE tanks. Elites like Signet of Judgement that entire strategies work around, Martyr that serve to keep aspects of the game in check, or elites like Word of Healing that are just supercharged versions of normal skills. The power level of skills does fluctuate wildly from format to format, and even the inherent power of different skills doesn't have a ton of consistency.

Peace and Harmony isn't even on the power map.

I think there's some mistaken assumption that Peace and Harmony actually does something. All it does is give you a bit less than one pip of energy regeneration, at the cost of only being able to use skills that target allies. Remember that the gold standard for an energy management elite skill is *three* pips of energy regen, and potentially even more with the right drawbacks.

The only situation I know of where the skill is even remotely acceptable is on a Blessed Aura Monk with 16 Divine Favor. If that's the case you can reasonably maintain Peace and Harmony on all three of the team's Monks (including yourself) for a bit less than 3 net pips of regen on your team. So on its own that's minimally acceptable, but it has all sorts of drawbacks, from build constrictions (no Energy Drain on the other Monks) to splash damage on enchantment removal, to simply creating a build where your Monks can never attack if tactics dictate, to the opportunity costs of giving up something truly insane on such a character (35 second Spell Breaker in particluar). In other words, if used on a build best suited to abuse the skill in the perfect situation, it's still a weak choice.

In PvE? I really don't know why you'd ever use it.


You assume that Peace and Harmony is something that's worth countering. It isn't. The standard response to a Peace and Harmony Monk is something like "Whoa, this Monk is using Peace and Harmony. GG. I'm going to be seriously disappointed if we don't smash this team's face in less than a minute."

Followed, of course, by some merciless taunting in local chat in hopes of getting a rage quit.

No, counters have nothing to do with the equation. It's simply a matter of only having eight skills on a skill bar, and each of them, particularly your elite, having to pull their own weight. Adding an elite with the speed and impact of wet cardboard to your build doesn't exactly live up to expectations.

Peace,
-CxE

So why was it nerfed? Was it used to fuel untargeted PBAoE effects like aura, zealots and wrath?

um you still havent convinced me. To all who havent known that the trick was out of the bag, divine boon + P&H prot monk "was" the ownage.

You're joking, right? Cause that's basically saying "I don't actually look at what I'm using." Using P&H to offset Divine Boon is a just dumb (compare it to offering/energy drain).

and yet you type a couple hundred words about it?

sounds like you love it to me

From the update page:

Fixed Divine Boon, Guilt, Mark of Subversion, Peace and Harmony, Shame, and Zealot's Fire so that when they say "when casting a skill/spell that targets an ally/enemy," they only trigger on targeted skills or spells, not on untargeted ones.

Steaming pile of yak dung... that made my day so far...

I think most of the players that figured out how good Prot + Boon was, also saw how good E Drain, Inspired Hex, and Drain Enchantment are.

One of my friends actually uses P&H in PVE, but refuses to use Healing Breeze because it's "noob". I don't understand it.