Fame and Rank

Alot of players complain about the time it takes to get a competent group in tombs. Also about 75% of the players in guildwars are just pver's who have no idea what fame or rank is. Why is this? First of all it takes forever for players to get fame and rank up in tombs, so its a huge turnoff. Also, players cant prove they have any rank at all until 180 fame.

Thats really harsh on new incoming generations of players.

I propose giving a /rank emote for every rank level. And I also propose lowering rank 1 to about 10 fame, and equally adjusting all the other ranks.

IE:
rank1 =10 fame
rank2 =25 fame
rank3 =75 fame
Etc...

I agree with the different emotes, but completely disagree with changing the required fame...

Rank shows skill, and for those with no skill, their ability to be lifeless.

Either way, they're more experienced with the game, and diserve a better rank.

Guild matches, and holding hoh adds alot to your fame...

Guild matches? ...

There shouls be some sort of PvE rank system, so the PvE'ers arent left out.

It could be based on any or all of the following:
Experience Points
Missions Completed
Bonus Missions Completed
Missions/Bonus Completed without Henchmen
Quests Completed
Elite Skills Aquired
Normal Skills Aquired
UW or FoW Entry
UW or FoW (or SF/GF) Quests Completed

I un-suggest this suggestion.

Hey how bout this, 1 fame for every 1000 faction!!

How about no? I can do 1000 faction with my sword melee ranger in CA in about an hour or so. And that's a really weak build.

Might be too major a change too late but perhaps for chapter 2 it could work.
At the moment high rank players have no incentive to play with lower rank players and a team of rank 6 players get the same reward for beating a team of unranked players as the unranked players get for beating a high rank team. So why not work it like this.

All teams have eight players from rank 0 to rank 9 or whatever it goes up too.
So why not rank the team according to its two lowest ranked members.
So a team of 8 rank 6-8 players would be rank 6 and a team 6 players ranked 6-8 grouped with two rank 0-2 players would be rank 0. Then slighty tilt the amount of fame given in favor of the lower ranked team. Something like if rank 0-2 beats rank 3-5 they get 2 fame. If rank 0-2 team beats rank 6 they get 3 fame and if rank 0-2 beats a rank 0-2 they get 1 fame. Also punish a rank 6 group for losing to a rank 0 or 3 group by taking away fame to the same scale. This would encourage higher ranked teams to take on lower ranked players to either boost there fame or so they dont risk losing there hard earned fame. If things continue the way they are no new players will be able to come to HOH and it will fall away. Obvoiusly a rank 0-2 emote would need to be introduced.

Im rank 0 so this would obviously benefit me so i would like to hear what higher ranked players would think of this idea.

well at least your faction is worth something at a global unlock Now its just sitting there waiting for Capter 2..
Maybe something like Guildfaction. A big bank of spare faction that players can donate to the guild that other guildies can use too unlock their stuff. This game is teambased anyway so why not share the faction.

yeah on the emotes it might be fine, but not to have an animal, but just the number of what rank you are on top of your head, and for lowering the fame for each rank.... HELL NO, if your not gonna dedicate yourself to tombs, and you want to just have a rank 3 so you can some stupid little deer above your head, then maybe you shouldn't be in tombs, it doesn't take to long to get it anways.

FIRST OFF, now a days rank doesnt always show skill. Far too many people have iway'd their way to r3 or even r6 and still suck at pvp when it comes to a different build because they still have no idea what they are doing.

SECONDLY, guild matches do not influence fame. only Tombs give fame

/idea unsigned

There should be some kind of recognition or reward (besides faction) for winning a GvG, if not fame then something else.

First off: Fame shows zero skill.
Only egomaniacs and wannabe pros stick to it to distinguish good from bad players. A simple "which skills are you bringing?" says more than any "which rank?" could say.

About the suggestion:
Tombs and Fame need some re-adjustment. With the current system it highly discourages anyone who is not into top notch wannabe behaviour. So much for the "casual" gamer comment.
I've been doing GVG quite a lot, i've been doing TA quite a lot. Probably more time than any Rank 6 Player ever has put into his Fame Emote. I'd go as far as to say that i know a lot more about PVP than most of said R3, R6 Folks. However, the funny thing is that everytime i try to get into a team in tombs everyone expects me to show my fame emote. And when i don't do that, just because i'm GVGing more than Tombs i have to endure spiteful comments and how i am supposed to noob my way up there as to where the "good" players are.

Fame is a trash emote, shows nothing except how much mental issues someone has when he demands it and actually thinks it represents skill.

Either remove Fame, or implement it in GVG.

I like this suggestion except for the part about "Missions/Bonus Completed without Henchmen." Some people, like myself have reasons for playing with henchmen. That would be like a slap in the face to a decent amount of people. I have internet issues and disconnect a lot, I don't group with people to avoid inconviencing others. I also group with henchmen because I can play at my own pace. Often I have GW in window mode and am chatting with friends at the same time, henchmen allow me to do other things, whereas with a group, I have to take time out and work with them alone, ignoring everything else.

Anyways, I like the rest of it.

Ok, if this should be implemented, I think some things should not be there.

Experience Points (XP)
You get Experience from farming, but does that really mean experience?? XP is just about how many mobs you have killed, that would be almost the same as the fame. (bad idea IMO)

I don't know what you meant by UW/FoW entry, but I don't hope it's about how often you have entered it. Farming smites in UW doesn't mean you know everything about UW.

Normal Skills Aquired
As you know, you can obtain these in 2 ways, quests and buying them. Buying them isn't something you need skill for, but getting them through quests is, so I would suggest: Normal Skills Aquired Through Quests.

Do you actually realize what you say? I always thought this game was made for the people who play games a lot, but also for people who can play a few hours a week or less. They can't 'dedicate' to tombs!
Also, for someone who plays tombs a lot, it may not take very long, but some people don't like to play tombs all the time. They want to just PvP for fun for an hour or so. They don't want to wait that hour, finally join a PUG and then get beaten at the first fight. After that the PUG will fall apart and you need to start over again. I don't know how this is for R3 or R6 people, but for R0-2 this happens a lot.

About the proposal of the OP, wouldn't making those ranks from 10 fame make it even harder for new people?

I mean, gaining 10 fame isn't really a lot, but if you can't show you have 10 fame; it really shows you are new to PvP. Now it shows you are not that long in PvP if you can't show R3. Then you would never be accepted with 0 fame as you really are new and people do want to have a small chance.

My suggestion:
get rid of the whole fame/rank thingy.
and the PvE-famelike thingy shouldn't be implemented, it would just turn out to be the same as in PvP.
And for me I nearly only play PvE because I dislike the PvP system. Don't make me stop PvE pls.

They could make Fame more difficult to acquire and remove the current rank system entirely. In its place, you'd have only 3 ranks. Getting from rank 1 to 2 will be difficult and time-consuming and getting to rank 3 will be the ultimate HoH achievement.

What this would mean is that most players would have no way to show their ranks at all. People will be forced to party with each other in Tombs without discrimination. You get to keep the emotes and the fame, only they become something a lot more special and difficult to obtain, a true measure of skill rather than the farce that it is right now.

There are many players like myself who are relatively new to the game and are more interested in PvP than PvE. Getting into a tombs team is too hard, even PUG Iway teams need you to be at least rank 3 most of the time. Finding a good guild that has 10-12 dedicated GvG or Tombs players is also near-impossible. The system is flawed and unwelcoming to new players as it is, changing the rank system might go some way towards alleviating that problem.

The worst part is that the volume of players unable to get into tomb teams (yet who still want to dedicate themselves to PvP) is steadily increasing. With older players and guilds possibly leaving GW, this could result in >90% of the population being excluded from the highest levels of competitive PvP simply because they havent been playing since release.

Off-topic but creating a guild should be slightly more difficult. I'm sick and tired of "guilds" that are nothing more that carebear chatrooms.

Not signed.

Deers are already wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too saturated amongst all of Guild Wars.

You should not get any emote for being below rank 3. That would be a grave insult to anyone who has ever became rank 3, even if they still suck at rank 3!

I agree there should be emotes for every level above 3, or if not, then at least a way to prove your rank to other people. Ie: List the rank number next to every player name. Of course bad players would complain about this, but oh well, Guild Wars should be catering to the good players, not the bad players.

This is.....
such a good idea!!

But I think this should be combined with an idea of Slick Blade, people should also be able to lose Fame.

Losing fame is such a bad idea. No high-ranked players in their right mind would accept lower ranked players into their group and risk losing his fame, and finding pickups would become much harder than it already is.

getting fame isn't that hard, and the reason why pve players don't do tombs is because they do pve, pvp players do pvp, pve does pve unless you know every single pve player you have no idea what there thought is about pve, they might be new to the game and all they're focusing on is pve, and maybe later on they'll start to get into pvp, 180 isn't to hard to get you can be new to pvp and get that much in a week, you don't have to be dedicated to pvp to get your little deer head, the fame isn't a turn off to pve players it's that they have no interest in doing it because they have more fun doing other things. These new players that are getting into pvp are seeing that they can just go fame farm in american dis 1, it's not hard to find a guild that's intersted in pvp, it's the players choice in what they do when they play the game, fame is something you should earn because of winning not be handed, if you hadn't realized tombs is played through teams around the world, and if your loosing to other teams that's your fault.

In my view the idea that new players should be receiving special treatment is absurd. The reason why fame and rank has meaning is precisely because it's hard to get. If it was easy to get, then it would have no meaning. Getting rank 3 is indeed too easy to get these days, yet still people complain that they want emotes sooner than rank 3. It's getting really ridiculous.

Why not just have a button for new players that they click on and when they do the entire enemy team dies instantly?

If you are handed a "I am a good player" badge on silver platter, then your badge has no meaning. If you are a good player, prove it. The other good players have proven it by their rank. If you can't do the same, then that's nobody's fault but your own.

All the people who already got their fame and rank did not receive any special treatment. Neither should anyone else.

It is true that many bad players have a good rank. Yet it is also true that all good players will be able to achieve a good rank, and most of them already have it.

Those who cannot "put their money where their mouth is" so to speak; those who say they are good yet are incapable of achieving rank - well they do not deserve the benefits that go along with rank. They haven't earned it.

I agree with the idea that Guild Wars PVP is harsh on new players. However, the suggestion to force letting new, clueless players leech off of the skills of good players is unequitable and therefore unacceptable.

Giving an emote for all ranks so they can prove there rank to others, sure. But decreasing the amount of fame to get rank, no.

I don't like the idea of higher ranked players losing fame if they lose to lower ranked players. Sometimes high ranked guilds test builds in tombs and some of those builds ultimately don't work out. If they lost fame everytime they tested a build that failed then you would find that there would be a lot fewer creative builds around and a huge rise in the played and tested builds. This would soon result in tombs becoming boring - it is already infested with flavour of the month builds (you know who you are) as it is.

I am also not totally convinced that fame should be awarded for GvG either. Rank is meant to show how much experience (not skill) a person has in the tombs environment. The tombs maps and the builds you find in tombs do differ from builds that guilds will use for GvG matches and therefore experience in GvG (or any other kind of PvP) does not necessarily show that the player will be good within the tombs environment.

Rank is gained much like experience and that is over time, therefore, it provides a good indication of a players experience within tombs, however, it does not provide an indication of a player's skill - you will have to find that out through trialing or by 'word of mouth'. A recommendation from another player beats any rank/experience/in game attribute in my opinion.

Unfortunately, people put more weight into rank than they should when deciding on team members - its not the ultimate criteria for finding good players, however, I do not feel that lower fame requirements for ranks or providing fame from doing other PvP will resolve this issue.

Rank does not show skill. Only scrubs think that because they see good groups that are supposedly rank 9 (Wow, rank 9, that means you're good right?) because those players happen to actually be better.

I have enough trouble remembering which rank is which emote (except that deer=3), if they had a different emote for each different level....

The idea of Slick blade was that the higher your rank is, the more you lose if you lose against a lower ranked team.
At first, no-one would want to give up a team of 8 rank-9 players right? But those teams lose too! And that way, they will lose fame, meaning after I while a few of that team may become rank 8.
Now... to be sure you don't lose too much fame, you take some lower-ranked people, not even necesarry that they are rank 0.
The team may lose a little more often now, but they won't lose as much fame as they would have with 8 rank-9 players.

There should be a good balance between [8 rank-9] and [6 rank-9 + 2 rank-3]

This way, there would become some kind of mixture between all people. So it will stop that the old players will remain playing with the old players.

That is a good point, but you maybe implement you won't lose the first round any fame, so that if you lose the first round, it doesn't cost you anything?

Bad idea to give every rank emotes, then you will get groups asking for rank 1or rank 2 groups, causing that new players will be totally left out.

Ok, for people who only play tombs, it might be easy to get to rank 3 in a week. But for people who normally PvE, it won't be that easy. Ok, stick with PvE then? No! Sometimes a PvE-person wants to go PvP for once as well. But (s)he doesn't want to wait an hour before getting a group!

Just make it to a combination of the idea of Fallot and Slick Blade.

Yes, it may not be easy for a PVE-person to get rank 3, but that's the whole point of rank. Rank is not candy to be given out freely. It's supposed to something that is hard to achieve.

And just FYI, there is waiting o'plenty for groups at every rank level. Oftentimes a R6+ PUG will take two or three hours to assemble, and then lose in round 3 to IWAY and disband.

I'm just under rank 9, and I've been in zillions of rank 6 PUGs over the months where this has happened. Even with players who are known to hold Halls all the time, it still happens with their groups too.

In Guild Wars PVP, long waits to get into a good group are inevitable.

The reality is that if you can't tolerate waiting to get into a good group, you are never gonna like Guild Wars PVP. Because the waiting is never going to go away, even after you've gotten rank 6.

Ranks and Fame is besides the point. I dont care if I never make a single Rank, I just want to be able to get into a reasonable Tombs team without discrimination. Its not quite so difficult for me, I can just get a group of RL friends instead but other people dont have this option.

True, but you shouldnt have to wait hours to get into a crap group.

Im not saying the high rank players should drop rank when they lose just a few fame points. So what if they lose a few trying a build that doesnt work out if they are good players they should easily make it up again and if not they dont deserve there high rank. I mean once your up to rank6 or rank9 how many loses losing 1 0r 2 fame points would u need to drop to rank5.