Don't listen to the Whiners Anet

As one of the "harder people to please," I'm still extremely happy with the update. It's a large step in the correct direction.

this entire forum is under the impression that ArenaNet is playing Santa Claus....I point out ArenaNet's shortcomings and get flamed...I'm not buying an expansion if ArenaNet can't fix simple problems...and there is a large conglomerate of other players that won't be either. ArenaNet delivers the updates to you to keep you interested long enough for them to get the expansion ready for release....Shinsei(and pretty much everyone else with a brain...which appears to be the minority) is right, they aren't doing you any favors.

Algen.. i understand why you are bashing the update but think about this, we only pay for the game in the beginning (we don't need to pay monthly fee like WoW) also its hard for them to include EVERYTHING in one update. Think from a company point of view, if they included everything that we ever wanted in the next patch (toggle cape, more weapons, better armors, better storyline, more interaction with environment, better overall balance for PvE and PvP) than there is no point for any company to make sequel. The whole point of videogame.. is to make sequel with better ideas or features to get more business. If they don't include things into their update, its the company decision if they want to or not.

Its not that the OP is telling us to ignore the opinion of others. But it seem that people want the next patch to be perfect (allow people to farm in UW, FoW, or SF, bring back the smiter.. etc) but like i say above... game industry do this for living. you don't like it.. tough luck. But eventually, a-net would make this game better with either next update or sequel.

These update are free but eventually (from what i saw) a-net will charge money for different updates (correct me if I'm wrong on this) I must admit $54.00 for a game seem harsh ( I mean come on, just a disk and you still have to download different areas) These update seems to slowly fixing the problems that already existed in GW but i guess too little too late. Recently, i do felt bored of the whole formula. Go to point A, kill somethings, Go to point B and grab this than come back to point A. And most of you are right, we're not getting our money worth in this patch but what do you expect. You pay them and now its on the company's hand to choose whether the next patch should be fun for everyone or to screw us up.

/signed the update was great, and now the only people that need to farm are the ones who want pretty things, like fellblades and chaos axes

they said your precious auction house would be coming but not as fast as you want it.

your favorite boogyman overpowered skill wasnt nerfed yet

they are fixing things but simply not as fast as you want them to.

how about putting GW back on the shelf for a few months and seeing what changes/fixes they made while you cooled off.......you might get a pleasent surprise

I don't play very often..maybe a couple of hours a week.

the auction house isn't for me, I have nothing to sell, and will never have anything to sell, gold is pointless. The auction house is for the sellers. And while this is certainly not an easy project to undergo...they certainly had enough time to include it(or atleast a viable alternative in the mean time)

It has nothing to do with how quickly I want things...as most of the things I bring up don't effect me anyway(the auction house, toggleable capes, Ether Renewal, etc etc)....but they are issues that have been around for some time and it's pathetic that they weren't so much as addressed in the "Big Summer Update"

You know everyone will buy chapter 2 lockstep. Probably even me...sigh.
Just so I can mix it up with you guys in the forums

I am sure the process of making global game changes isn't as simple as a dev seeing a nice idea in a forum, and then implementing it. They have to work through it completely, see how it will affect everything else, meet with everyone to make sure it's worth implementing, and then set time aside from regular duties to implement the change. The coding part is probably the least complicated part of the process.

You complain about things that don't effect you, then why do it? And you seem to be speaking out of ignorance, because I doubt you know the inner workings of ANET and the dev team.

can we all just get along and play some counter strike

I know the inner workings of a development team.....I know how development teams SHOULD run...I complain about things that are wrong, things that SHOULD be fixed and aren't. Because I know what it's like to work for a development team that SHOULD be picking out the most important issues and implementing them as soon as possible. Do you think I'd still have a job if I looked at my consumer and said "I know that version 2.17 leaves your server open to a buffer overflow attack and that we didn't include a fix for this in 2.18 release, we're trying to keep you around to buy the next version"??

Lets look at the popular things the patch missed, and when these things were addressed for a second:

Cape toggling: Addressed the same day capes were implemented (before release). Has been addressed over and over again ever since. Ignored.

Guild storage: Addressed before release. Has been "coming soon" ever since.

Observer mode: Addressed before release. Has been "coming soon" ever since.

Etheral Renewal fix: Addressed before release, quietly, but it was addressed. It was ignored and claimed to be balanced, but that argument seems to have gone out the window with the popularity of the emo smiters. Holding on to their argument of ER being balanced, their "big fix" to the emo smiters was increasing Divine Boon and Draw Conditions recharge to 1 sec, increasing the overall rate of fire by a whopping 0.4 seconds (?), decreasing the dps by a barely noticable figure. Maybe you should play your own game a little there devs?

Real PvP content (maps/scenarios etc): Addressed since....forever. Their response to this prior to release was the infamous Crag. The map everyone and their grandmother still wants out of the game. No new tombs map since release. 2 (?) GvG maps since release, and 2 (?) new arena maps since release, only one having a unique scenario (but flawed), The Crag. Looking back at the famous IGN - Jeff Strain interview video, most of us call BS. "One team will try to escort a caravan through a mountain pass while others try to destroy it" - "Guilds who win our frequent tournies will have their banners put up in Lions Arch, and NPC's will have dialog about their victory, because our streaming technology rocks your socks".

A Real Ladder System: Addressed since forever. Anyone know where the heck the C from "CORPG" came from?

Too tired to put more out on the table, but these (and probably a few others) are the typical and viable complaints A.net deals with everyday. Yet after their "big summer" update, A.net decides they still want to hear these complaints. When making such a decision, prepared to recieve unsatisfied results from your customers.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not against what they implemented. I'm against what they didn't implement. The issues your community is not pleased about should always be the first issues you deal with. Who was asking for green items anyway?

/signed

This is such a strange thread.

While some people are "whining" about the wrong reasons, I think that others are being rather earnest and trying to explain to ANet how to further improve the game.

Making a thread that puts everyone who is not 100% content with the current state of affairs into the "idiot whiners" camp is hardly fair.

ArenaNet knows that it did a good job fixing some things; the feedback is there. ArenaNet also knows, and has known for some time, what else needs fixing.

The subject of the auction house comes up often, but I'm not sure how *critical* it really is. People are upset about WTS being spammed. It's only truly a bother in the first couple of districts of Lion's Arch, WHICH YOU ARE WELCOME TO AVOID, it's not that hard -_-, and you can turn off the trade channel and see virtually *no* WTS messages anywhere else.

It's not the traders and buyers that want an auction house so bad as it is the people that pretend they're somehow seriously inconvenienced by the crush in LA dist 1 and 2. Just don't go to those areas! I only go when I feel like shopping or selling.

Also, the auction house is tricky to implement and preserve the economy, I think. Being hasty with it wouldn't be smart.

I am really looking forward to observer mode, though. PVP is really the heart and soul of Guild Wars, and I do want to check out the best playes in action ^^

On the issue of Guild Wars or expansions being "free," I'd like to point out that you SHOULD NOT go easy on something because you didn't pay as much for it as you'd expect. GW wasn't free, for one thing, it cost me the same as Ninja Gaiden did, and I don't go around saying "quit whining about NG's difficulty because the game is free!" It's not. Never was.
Granted you can consider SF free (although part of the reason I bought GW was that I knew there'd be additional content at no addional cost), you can't say "if you don't like don't complain since it's free!" So much stuff is open-source, Apache, etc, but does that mean it's ok if it's crap? Heck no, and if it IS crap I definitely have a right to say so. Otherwise, what kind of precedent are we setting? Should we assume that if you paid for it, it's good, or better, than what's free? (As a proponent of open-source, I hope not.)

So please, don't DEFEND anything by saying it's free. It's not a defense at all.

Also, please stop dismissing each other by teling the other person to "quit Guild Wars." It's just plain rude, and all that happens is you come off as total dicks.

As for Sorrow's Furnace, I am generally happy with it. Wintery dwarf levels are from an aethetic viewpoint not exactly my cup of tea, but what's done is done quite well. The green items are cool; it's just a shame they're actually a bit low on variety, or so it seems. So many Yakslappers, heh.

I haven't played too much of it for now, but I have really liked what I have seen. It's in general an improvement over the rest of the PVE campaigns, as these are a tad bit more sophisticated in terms of mission design. Too bad henchmen suck at complex, strategic missions ^^

I like the addition of new crafters' weapons. But one thing: where did the +5 energy, +10 armor, etc., weapons go? At least give us an explanation, or assure us they'll be back.

Is whining about whiners any better than the initial whining?

I agree 100% with shinsei, especially on the 'coming soon' idea.

I agree with you. Also i don't get why A-net have to give in to this "unique items" rant and give us another set of items that is in green text. I already seen people selling it for 10 or 20k per items. Look to be like a gold sink to me!

None of which, except for observer mode, were scheduled to come out with the Sorrow's Furnace update.

What happend to observer mode, anyway?

Hey, I can understand being annoyed with ANET for putting certain things off, I've been waiting for certain features since beta. But why put down the great update that this latest one has been?

Instead of saying "This update sucks ass!" can't you recognize that it was a big step in the right direction and give it credit? Then you can complain all you want separately about what hasnt been implemented yet.

Maybe Anet had some coding problems with Observer mode. Who knows?

The only thing that made me "sigh" was the fact that there are still a zillion people spamming trades in the local chat channel.

Other then that, it was a decent update.

Look at what you just posted and tell me what's positive.

Why don't you post about what you liked?

I'm so sick of people thinking everything has to be a flamewar... if you have a different opinion try SAYING IT, not attacking the people who's views differ from yours

They had functioning observer mode that people saw at E3 earlier this year. I'm sure it was not release quality. Maybe there are a few bugs.

In general, I think ANet knew from the beginning what we want and need and are just giving things in bits until the release of Chapter 2. They were expecting to get one or two chapters a year out but now they know how long it takes to make a chapter and how long it lasts. So they need to buy time/keep people occupied until the release of Chapter 2.

Making the Fansites a main method of communication with customers, having people beg for what they want and then finally giving it just in time for them to almost get bored before the release of the next chapter may be the strategy. I don't think SF will keep people busy until Chapter 2, but if people get a lot of stuff unlocked they might get into PvP.

I guess observer mode will come at a time people are starting to get bored with the new areas and have lots of unlocks. Then ANet will make a song and dance about it to get people into PvP like the PvPX weekend did. Based on that I guess 2 months or maybe longer. Same for a trade system.

Well, why don't you (along with the rest of the complainers) sit down the GW Staff and describe your issues, concerns, complaints, rants, etc and voice your opinions to them personally. While you're at it fill out an application for a job there so you can help them on some of these things. Seriously kids, unless you're a programer or even have a clue as to how much work goes into a program like this, you should really find out before you go complaining about all the little problems of the world!

I have to say that I was very excited about the new update. The only thing I wanted to see which they didn't add yet is a guild vault. The other thing I will add is I was very disappointed by the final fight in sorrows and lack of a reward.

and how do you know how many of us are programmers? or developers? or UI designers? If gaming were still the industry I was in I would gladly fill out an application for a job with ArenaNet...however ArenaNet can't even come close to affording my salary(that I'm not willing to part with)....these forums offer us an opportunity to say what we think and be heard by the developers. We are in essence all scoping analysts....a forum allows our thoughts to be heard. Telling the "whiners" to stfu and be happy with the half eaten cookie arenanet has given us is ignorant.

To Charcoal Ann.

My, my. I just to know what to say to you. Coming out and saying "whiners this" and "whiners that." I mean, the nerve.

THANK YOU. Someone needed to put something positive up here, and it was you, and you did a fabulous job summarizing my exact feelings on the matter.

/signed
~zehly

It's not that Anet doesn't know what to do or they need more hands or programmers doing it or even that they are running behind.

I would probably agree with Sauron/KARMA-guy that they are just doing this to string people along.

I find that my problem is people who can't even play the update at all for complaints of what they didn't add - no, scratch that, I don't care what they do with their own copy of the game.

My problem is with the people who are trying to get Green items removed and the economy reset to the old 60-100k per monk rune so that can get a fat and hefty profit to fork over on e-bay or buy 20 sets of FoW/UW armor.

This whole "WELL! THE POINT OF THE GAME IS TO GET GOLD ITEMS!" arguement needs to stop being spammed. It's ruining the forum for some members who don't enjoy searching out the one good post out of the 100 mounds of junk and discouraging people looking to buy the game.

I'de like to post on these forums without the presence of the disgruntled and immature.

not scheduled for this update

geez.. even for a regular guy like me.. this thread is hijack and too many personal attacks have been posted. People, lets end this once and for all, and do something constructed like watching leeroy jenkin video 20 times in a row or try and create your own leeroy moment in Guild Wars!

Stop this crap of calling people to STFU since they like to complain!

*countdown till mod axe this post*

10.. 9...8.........

once again.. stop this flame wars

To those of you comlaining about complaining about complainers and that strange remark about my not saying anything positive about whiners: i am not trying to start a flamefest. i am trying to stop GW devs from giving up on us because of what they see on this forum.

if you read other threads you will see that the observer mode was always going to come out after SF. all of your problems are being addressed by Anet. representitives on this forum have said so. give them a break.


would everyone have prefered SF to come to us before being populated? then to be upgraded over time? it would have been out sooner wouldn't it? but you would then have complained that it wasn't finished. they released it when it was finished not a moment before, not a moment after. they were conducting last minute tests the hour before release.

i have given up telling whiners to stop. i am contenting myself now with simply showing ANet that what they have done IS good.

some people need to look on the bright side. what has been done is great; what hasn't been addressed will be before the year is out.

you will enjoy the cookie more if you pace yourself. if they had fixed absolutely everything you would not know what to praise most, what to do in game. you would have too much choice.
this way you get to enjoy SF now. Observer mode in a couple of months and toggleable capes before that.
It will keep you occupied until Chapter 2.

who am i kidding... you are likely to complain about something else anyway.

Addresing some other points: Guild Vaults may not be a good idea. The scamming potential would be massive.
the reward for completing SF is COMPLETING SF.

Also. Please don't say things like it takes a couple of lines of code. or well you make us a better update in 4 months. or i am a computer programmer and it does only take 3 lines.

Personal attacks do not add weight to your argument. attempting to shut the other down by flat contradiction is worthless. we all know it takes a bit of work to do ANYTHING in programming.

Observer mode requires making players almost like partial Administrators... to be able to see what is hapening to someone else (and the time delay is also hard to make reliable i should think)

After PvPX they said that organised competitions will be more common now.
you seem to be axpecting a few people to do the work of a thousand. i don't know how big A-Net is but i do know that most companies of its type are very small by industrial standards.
you expect them to render the entire area of sorrows furnace, create many entirely new character models AND do all that other stuff as well? they are only human.

if you are going to complain about a lack of toggleable capes why not complain about third world poverty? this is much more important i should think.

please try to put everything into perspective. are you expecting a country like Italy say to suddenly be able to fix third world poverty? all in one go. within 4 months.

no that is unreasonable. but it is reasonable to expect a smallish company to make very large changes to an inhabited game whilst maintaining balance and reliability at all times?

Threads devoted to a certain opinion never survive. You cannot post a thread and declare it to be "Only for positive replies!", because in reality, people have their own opinions. This thread was asking to be hijacked, and the OP was asking to be shot.

*still waiting for mod to lock down this thread*

I was willing to be shot as well. i hope to divert the flames away from A-Net.

really and trully this thread was intended to get the multitude who DID like the update to actually say so. if other barge in then i don't really care. i have seen them all across the forum. you get to know the names after a while...

Trying to stop them from stopping to earning money? I'm pretty sure they don't need you to keep them focused.
Observer Mode was concieved before Sorrows Furnace was even close to the drawing board.
More common eh? 2 times, maybe 3 times more common? 3 X 0 = 0.


Would it kill you to, you know, capitalize?

see this is your major problem understanding our(the "whiners") point of view....the developers aren't gonna give up on you because they don't care about you. They care about making a buck....this is a business. You might want to believe that it's a labor of love....but if they weren't getting paid they wouldn't be doing it. All the updates and the promotions and the PR bullshit is to keep you playing the game so they can sell copies of Chapter 2. ArenaNet is not Santa Claus giving you free presents because you were a good little girl...they are an entity of corporate America trying to make a buck.

What a hero you are.

You misunderstand. Complaints and criticism is what pushes a developement team to improve their product. If the demand for a certain change is high enough, it should be high on your priority list. If you're the kind that gives up when given criticism, goodluck getting a job.

You know.... WTF is up with the whole /signed thing? It's pretty freekin stupid if ya ask me. I hate to flame but if your going to waste bandwidth for heaven's sake just say you agree.

While I hate to side with people who worship the ground that Anet walks on, I can't help to think that they know what they are doing. For all you peeps that think you can do better, by all means go ahead. Truth be known most game companies are run poorly, but you all bought the game and if you continue to play despite never liking the updates that's your problem... not thiers.

I'm just trying to keep things upbeat

no i don't think that it is a labour of love Algren. i do think that it is business. however ALL online games are a business. why do you expect GW to be oh so totally different and give you everything all in one go so that the developers can go home penniless?



the thing that i most dislike is the complainers who complain for the sake of complaining.

a little lesson: constructive critisism is good. constructive critisism is along the lines of: this, this and this where good but you could do with doing this, this and this. maybe you should do this as it seems to be the best way to get this done?

Pointless critisism: this this and this are crap. fix it.

try and keep to the former form of critisism. it is the only worthwhile kind.

Yeah, these days video games typically aren't made of sunshine, gumdrops and the smiles of childern across the world.

They're made from money for money. I'm sure nobody is going to quit their job at Anet because someone wrote a nasty thread about how they hate that they can't solo endgame content with a netbuild anymore. Nor is NCsoft going to yank funding on patching and marketing of Guild Wars no matter how much forum noise there is when it is still making them money.

Customers are going to give the feedback they feel suitable and whether it is polite or not doesn't matter. It is up to Anet and NCsoft to judge whether it is valuable. No matter what you think, there is absolutely no obligation for a paying customer to be constructive.

But more importantly, there is absolutely no way to stop people from venting their frustrations in front of an audience of peers on a forum without zealously moderating posts. Which, unfortunately, is a good way to kill off a forum.

With that out of the way, I really like the update, and I think Anet is doing a great job.

/signed my hats off to a-net for a "overall" good update, i myself and probably every other player had a problem with one aspect or another but imho murphy explains it best

-"Behind every little problem there's a larger problem, waiting for the little problem to get out of the way."
-"Every solution breeds new problems."


my favorite of the day-
"Smile . . . tomorrow will be worse."

This thread has gotten way out of hand. It IS possible for people to have differing opinions and be able to state them in non-inflammatory ways. That said, enough with unproductive posts.

Back to the playground, kids.