Althea's Ashes - Game Creators Hypocrits?
Wolf89
One of the creators main design in the game is balanced, all seems good and fine but in post world there is no balance whatsoever. Im doing altheanas ashes quest and seriously where the **** is the balance there. With the ascalon strikers and 3 other members we just barley survived and the strikers were almost all dead. The next group we died and cannot get past it. The difficulty is ridiculous they make diablo 2 yet they dont realize how crazy unbalanced monster/ human player is. They need to either make less enemies grouped together or something I mean cmon 6 is hard but 10 enemies in a group? Just an opinion post yours.
Riale
If you have a good healer, a good tank, compentant people and you're not too low level... You'll be fine.
Obviously one of those things is wrong.
Obviously one of those things is wrong.
kaycha
There is a difference between an area being unbalanced and an area requiring strategy. If you fail the first time, try figuring out what you did wrong rather than coming to the forums to scream unbalance. Maybe you caught the group when two patrols merged. Maybe you didnt bring a (good enough) healer. Maybe your party simply sucked. You cant expect every single quest or mission to be a walk in the park, can you?
parabola
So much strategy is involved in this game, i love it.
Perishiko ReLLiK
All im gonna do is "laugh my ass off"
it's people like this in which i love to watch get murdered when those patrols come... i back off slowly, as the party gets slaughtered... and low and behold im the last one alive on alot of instances. People think they can just run in and kill anything, and it's actually something that makes me keep playing, it adds its own humor to the game. Thanks Anet, keep it up.
it's people like this in which i love to watch get murdered when those patrols come... i back off slowly, as the party gets slaughtered... and low and behold im the last one alive on alot of instances. People think they can just run in and kill anything, and it's actually something that makes me keep playing, it adds its own humor to the game. Thanks Anet, keep it up.
Dreamsmith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf89
They need to either make less enemies grouped together or something I mean cmon 6 is hard but 10 enemies in a group? Just an opinion post yours.
There aren't any groups of monsters that big, at least not that early in the game. If you see what appears to be a group of 8-12 monsters, what you actually have is two groups that happen to have come together. Wait for them to separate, or carefully draw them apart by luring one group away while the other stays put. Easier said than done, I know, but it can be done. You do have a longbow or other extreme range weapon, right? Everyone should carry one, I don't care if you have marksmanship or not. The point isn't to kill anything with it, it's to draw attention of one monster (and thus the group it's in) without coming into aggro range of anything in the other group.
tkn
I made the mistake of running head first into a pack of monsters 4 levels higher than me last night. Upon respawn (it really couldn't go any other way), I found a different route past, and I think that "sneaking" through the dried out river bed was probably one of my most exciting gaming moments ever. This game is so cool that way. Not like say Diablo 2, where if you can't get past an area, you go level up in an easier place for a few hours and go back.
Dreamsmith
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkn
I found a different route past, and I think that "sneaking" through the dried out river bed was probably one of my most exciting gaming moments ever.
I frequently do explorable areas "Lytha style" (meaning no combat, ideally without even being seen). You don't get anything for it but the thrill: no XP, no loot, but it's still a lot of fun, and if you're really good at Lytha style, it can get you places in the game you couldn't possibly fight your way to (particularly if you didn't bring any henchmen, since they're a liability when you're playing Lytha style).
Now if only we had some water arrows...
Now if only we had some water arrows...
Perishiko ReLLiK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
I frequently do explorable areas "Lytha style" (meaning no combat, ideally without even being seen). You don't get anything for it but the thrill: no XP, no loot, but it's still a lot of fun, and if you're really good at Lytha style, it can get you places in the game you couldn't possibly fight your way to (particularly if you didn't bring any henchmen, since they're a liability when you're playing Lytha style).
Now if only we had some water arrows...
it's hillarious to see that other people are doing the exact same thing... i find it incredibly fun to sneek past some area's that i would otherwise die in, but i gotta correct your no loot idea, since i open chests and barrels on the way... woohoo...
Now if only we had some water arrows...
it's hillarious to see that other people are doing the exact same thing... i find it incredibly fun to sneek past some area's that i would otherwise die in, but i gotta correct your no loot idea, since i open chests and barrels on the way... woohoo...
Freyas
Theres a difference between "balance" and "challenging". This game is supposed to be challenging, not something you can walk through easily. However, it is balanced in that there are no uber skills, items, or character builds.
For the Althea's Ashes quest, it is supposed to be quite difficult- look at the experience reward for the quest. That quest alone gives as much bonus experience as doing an entire mission. If you're failing, try looking at what could be done to improve your chances of success- did you have enough healing, or need another warrior to help tank? Maybe some AoE damage, or more ranged damage to take out the enemies without getting in close enough to aggro another group of mobs? Try the mission with a few different party compositions, and see what you can do to improve. If there are never difficult places to get through in a game, it quickly becomes boring.
For the Althea's Ashes quest, it is supposed to be quite difficult- look at the experience reward for the quest. That quest alone gives as much bonus experience as doing an entire mission. If you're failing, try looking at what could be done to improve your chances of success- did you have enough healing, or need another warrior to help tank? Maybe some AoE damage, or more ranged damage to take out the enemies without getting in close enough to aggro another group of mobs? Try the mission with a few different party compositions, and see what you can do to improve. If there are never difficult places to get through in a game, it quickly becomes boring.
Silmor
Edge of Extinction placed on the bridge towards the main body of the Charr forces can trigger a full wipeout if set up properly; alternatively you can use that bridge as a chokepoint to get the most love out of area of effect spells. It just requires teamwork and some planning.
perendengue
another option is to find highground that either they can't get to or it takes a long time for them to get to. then just rain death on them from a distance...that works well.
can't shake this feeling that I read that rangers get more damage if they attack from higher ground as well...think it was one of those ingame popups or something.
can't shake this feeling that I read that rangers get more damage if they attack from higher ground as well...think it was one of those ingame popups or something.
Elfis
Uh, from his description, it sounds like he went where the quest description tells you to, which is the wrong place, and which has ridiculously hard groups of 8-12 mobs standing INSIDE EACH OTHER. I went there myself, and I can imagine the horror of his experience because I was level 16.
The actual place you want to go is just south of town. You don't even go past the tar pits.
The actual place you want to go is just south of town. You don't even go past the tar pits.
=HT=Ingram
Many times those large groups can be coaxed out of the group to follow u into a party ambush. do that a few times and walla group down... Archers are good for that... Hit a distance so others do not see em and the one hit follows u...
thaumaturge
I think timing is very important, later in the game you will see patrols of around 5 enemies, attacking at the wrong time will lead to another group seeing you and taking up the chase = ded 
Team should stay close at all times, retreat together to draw off enemies when there are large groups. Just make sure you work together and don't do things on your own or bring enemies from other groups into the fight, and keep your healers alive! I never got to the stage where I was completely annoyed at the difficulty, often with groups I could tell that we wouldn't do well in that co-op mission. I repeated many many co-op missions because I suck
Team should stay close at all times, retreat together to draw off enemies when there are large groups. Just make sure you work together and don't do things on your own or bring enemies from other groups into the fight, and keep your healers alive! I never got to the stage where I was completely annoyed at the difficulty, often with groups I could tell that we wouldn't do well in that co-op mission. I repeated many many co-op missions because I suck
baranovan
The quest is balanced enough, I managed to do it with 3 henchmen.
Elfis
I hope the original poster stuck around long enough to read past all those insensitive replies to find the solution to his problem.
To restate: there is a zone called the flame temple corridor, which the quest description seems to point you to. The quest does not show up on your map. The flame temple corridor has groups of 2-12 mobs, sometimes standing inside each other. They don't move until they see you. They just vaporize your healer in 2 volleys and go from there.
The quest objective is actually south of town. Still lots of enemies, but spread out and pullable.
To restate: there is a zone called the flame temple corridor, which the quest description seems to point you to. The quest does not show up on your map. The flame temple corridor has groups of 2-12 mobs, sometimes standing inside each other. They don't move until they see you. They just vaporize your healer in 2 volleys and go from there.
The quest objective is actually south of town. Still lots of enemies, but spread out and pullable.
Oni No Arashi
Heh, not on that quest, but it's been fun to watch some with Elementalists or Rangers (like my own) and they run HEAD FIRST into a swarm of ANYTHING and just die....
If you're characters main attacks are at a range, then use them... at a range.
Let the tanks draw them out and get them into a group and either AOE them or pick them off one at a time.
And the ones who just go off half ****ed as it is and run into everything... and die, then get rezed, die, then get rezed, then call it 'gay' and log off, they're even funnier.
Know your character and what you're after. I made it on the quest to Yak's bend with an E/R 10 and took no damage, in fact the party took almost no damage other then the 'fodder/tanks' that drew everything for the big punch.
Yeah... strategy is a good thing in this game.
If you're characters main attacks are at a range, then use them... at a range.
Let the tanks draw them out and get them into a group and either AOE them or pick them off one at a time.
And the ones who just go off half ****ed as it is and run into everything... and die, then get rezed, die, then get rezed, then call it 'gay' and log off, they're even funnier.
Know your character and what you're after. I made it on the quest to Yak's bend with an E/R 10 and took no damage, in fact the party took almost no damage other then the 'fodder/tanks' that drew everything for the big punch.
Yeah... strategy is a good thing in this game.
Wolf89
Its not patrols its just that I would rather have foes as henchmen than the current they are so dumb its unbelivable. If I run away they wont start running till Im a screen or 2 away they are so stupid they made great enemy ai but stupid allys this is unfair.
tvienti
Hm.. I'm going to back up Wolf's claim, and my previous claim, that henchmen are useless. They COULD be useful, if we had any kind of control over them. But I've just whiped 4 times in the same mission for just terrible reasons. First, the idea of "pulling" a patrol is just a waste of time with henchmen. They're great at charging what you attack, not so great at running when you run. Every time I (ranger) try, my fighter henchman charges in, pulls everything under the sun, and dies while I'm still high-tailing it out in an attempt to draw the fight away. The second whipe was funny, but not really a "whipe". The healer made it out because he was stuck on a sign halfway between us and the previous battle. Not so good at healing then. The third and fourth time we lost were both because the healer was standing in the middle of us, instead of behind us, where he would've been safely around the corner from the barrage of arrows raining down on him.
So.. in short.. grouping with other people works good when they're the right people and not l337 h4x0rs, but more often than not I can't get a group for my side quests. And the henchmen are sorely incapable of being anything more than punching bags for a short time before they get me killed. =(
EDIT: After my post I went on a 5th run and while I didn't whipe because of it, I got almost back to where I last died and realized my healer - who apparently is logistically challenged - is yet again missing.. no doubt stuck behind a tree stump or some other unimaginable horror.
So.. in short.. grouping with other people works good when they're the right people and not l337 h4x0rs, but more often than not I can't get a group for my side quests. And the henchmen are sorely incapable of being anything more than punching bags for a short time before they get me killed. =(
EDIT: After my post I went on a 5th run and while I didn't whipe because of it, I got almost back to where I last died and realized my healer - who apparently is logistically challenged - is yet again missing.. no doubt stuck behind a tree stump or some other unimaginable horror.
Anarchy 2k
I solo'ed that quest with a group of henchies. Go lvl a bit more and you'll get it.
heeman
Don't give up. Ashe is difficult quest. You just have to get good group together. I think some quest are too easy. I'm glad there are difficult quest like ash and more.
you got to have a strategy. There are many many ways to do.
Also, remeber to call your target (ctrl+space) and it should have little icon by your name. Everybody can hit the icon and everybody can attack the same target. You can kill one monsters at the time. so, you can elminate the mob faster. Always kill the Healer first.
i hope that helps.
Also, THis game gets better after Nolani acedemy. Keep playing until you get to SHiverpeak mountains. It's hella fun.
you got to have a strategy. There are many many ways to do.
Also, remeber to call your target (ctrl+space) and it should have little icon by your name. Everybody can hit the icon and everybody can attack the same target. You can kill one monsters at the time. so, you can elminate the mob faster. Always kill the Healer first.
i hope that helps.
Also, THis game gets better after Nolani acedemy. Keep playing until you get to SHiverpeak mountains. It's hella fun.
Roken
Atleast you didn't pull a Roken. I see a lever and I pull it. That didnt help much in the Rin City mission.
Loviatar
you dont have to take a fighter
take either the mage or the archer instead of the fighter so they dont charge in
take either the mage or the archer instead of the fighter so they dont charge in
nechronius
A few days ago i used my ranger/monk 12 in four different PC party groups to try and crack the ashes quest. Party composition was balanced for the most part, with tanks, spellcasters, and healers. Levels were between 10-13 in all four groups.
Needless to say, we pretty much got mauled in every case. On the fourth attempt the whole group of us with a -60% penalty made a final suicidal charge up the ramp and managed to just barely touch the ashes before we got vaporized.
The two of us who actually decided to push on beyond the ashes and see the Dragon's gullet were met with an interesting display of creatures that tore us to shreds, what with our two man party with big penalties.
My char is now 15th level and will try again with a new party. My goal is to beat the ashes quest fair and square. Having been to Beacon's Perch, I am confident my next attempt will be much more successful, but we'll see.
Needless to say, we pretty much got mauled in every case. On the fourth attempt the whole group of us with a -60% penalty made a final suicidal charge up the ramp and managed to just barely touch the ashes before we got vaporized.
The two of us who actually decided to push on beyond the ashes and see the Dragon's gullet were met with an interesting display of creatures that tore us to shreds, what with our two man party with big penalties.
My char is now 15th level and will try again with a new party. My goal is to beat the ashes quest fair and square. Having been to Beacon's Perch, I am confident my next attempt will be much more successful, but we'll see.
Wolf89
I shouldnt need to lvl up more (Im done all that now Im lvl 18.5) cause when I did it I was like 13 or 14 and could kill them in 4 hits max but they still managed to kill my other teamates when I charge in first. I think they should attack the first person they see. Another big thing that I hate is the life pods and their kind doing the wilds was the hardest thing ever when I had to face 4 life pods( Isnt holy wraith supposed to drain their mana.) It seems they have unlimited mana pools as I attack each one a few times so it should drain their mana but then they just heal themselves and I take dmg to myself.
eventhorizen
lol Altheas Ashes is a classic though, for the level you get/attempt the quest, and the number and types of foes it must be one of the very hardest quests in the game.
If you make one noob error, like not pulling mobs away from other mobs, or watching your map so others dont sneak into range etc. then you will get owned. The best way I found was either snipe the sentry mobs at the bottom of the steps etc. or lure them away with arrow fire and kill them, then do the sam with the mobs across the bridgeway thing and have tanks ready to rush in. That way every area of effect spell will hit every mob, your monks dont have to worry about people running away if they are taking pain, and you wont get ambushed. If you pull every single mob across the bridge thing you will die, if you rush in you will die, you must lure them to their deaths.
The thing that makes this quest hard is the henchies that will rush if you use arrows, or idiot party members that wont listen to a word anyone has to say and wants to take on 20-30 char single handedly.
If you make one noob error, like not pulling mobs away from other mobs, or watching your map so others dont sneak into range etc. then you will get owned. The best way I found was either snipe the sentry mobs at the bottom of the steps etc. or lure them away with arrow fire and kill them, then do the sam with the mobs across the bridgeway thing and have tanks ready to rush in. That way every area of effect spell will hit every mob, your monks dont have to worry about people running away if they are taking pain, and you wont get ambushed. If you pull every single mob across the bridge thing you will die, if you rush in you will die, you must lure them to their deaths.
The thing that makes this quest hard is the henchies that will rush if you use arrows, or idiot party members that wont listen to a word anyone has to say and wants to take on 20-30 char single handedly.
Mephaestus
We managed to do Ashes at around level 8. Maximized AOE, 2 or 3 elems. Did it in the corridor too, didn't know that ashes were south of town as well. We basically went along the right side and snuck around the back of the temple near the Dragon's whatever gate. At the top of the temple the ashes were held. Wasn't too bad, generally no more than 6 mobs at a time. The hardest part was breaking into the zone. We just avoided those huge groups of 12. And is Lytha style a reference to Thief? I always called that ghosting.
salatious
all you need for this is 2 Warriors level 10 and up, 1 monk level 10 and up, 1 elementalist level 10 and up....
what you want to do is have the 2 tankers run into the groups and have the elementalist do area attacks while the monk just sits back and does nothing but heal.
if you make the travel out there without dieing you get a group of 4 archer (NPC's) that will help you. but be ready becasue the archers do there own thing and as soon as you meet them there off to kill stuff so you have to keep up.
what you want to do is have the 2 tankers run into the groups and have the elementalist do area attacks while the monk just sits back and does nothing but heal.
if you make the travel out there without dieing you get a group of 4 archer (NPC's) that will help you. but be ready becasue the archers do there own thing and as soon as you meet them there off to kill stuff so you have to keep up.
timts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfis
Uh, from his description, it sounds like he went where the quest description tells you to, which is the wrong place, and which has ridiculously hard groups of 8-12 mobs standing INSIDE EACH OTHER. I went there myself, and I can imagine the horror of his experience because I was level 16.
The actual place you want to go is just south of town. You don't even go past the tar pits. could you tell me more about where this place is?
I tried the athlea mission as w/Melv6, the group died but I got the quest completed. But the ashes is totally a different story, we followed the strikers, they got slaughtered in one blow by the enemy, instant death then 8-12 enemies just ran to us. I found out my W/Me sucks, after it gets to lv10, something was wrong, I didnt have much useful spell, etc. I started a new char Mo/Ne and it kills faster than warrior. I dont have a lot time so I use henchman for those easy quests.
Please tell me how to get to 'the south of town' place? I dont want to follow that arrow any more.
The actual place you want to go is just south of town. You don't even go past the tar pits. could you tell me more about where this place is?
I tried the athlea mission as w/Melv6, the group died but I got the quest completed. But the ashes is totally a different story, we followed the strikers, they got slaughtered in one blow by the enemy, instant death then 8-12 enemies just ran to us. I found out my W/Me sucks, after it gets to lv10, something was wrong, I didnt have much useful spell, etc. I started a new char Mo/Ne and it kills faster than warrior. I dont have a lot time so I use henchman for those easy quests.
Please tell me how to get to 'the south of town' place? I dont want to follow that arrow any more.
PhineasToke
You should have tried it in the March Beta weekend. Took nearly four hours and intense patience and strategy. The image below is from our victory then
The new version is a cakewalk compared to then.
The new version is a cakewalk compared to then.
trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf89
...they make diablo 2 yet they dont realize how crazy unbalanced monster/ human player is...
what? they didnt make diablo.. blizzard did... Arenanet is the same host as Battle.net(right?) but they never made diablo.
Raiddinn Beatdropper
What the poster before said - Something along these lines, is true.
If you cant beat an area you either dont have enough level or dont have enough skill or arent using the right strategy.
For the record, I have beaten Towers quest with henchmen, doing that is far far more difficult than doing this with henchmen.
Also, henchmen will run when you do, as long as you cast when they are behind them and begin to run before they engage, sounds working as intended to me.
Secondly, Henchmen will stay and fight *after* they engage, in order to let *you* escape and possibly come back and rez later, or just try and continue without them.
I would prefer that I run and they stay instead of they run and I die... I dont know about you.
Tsunamii Starshine
If you cant beat an area you either dont have enough level or dont have enough skill or arent using the right strategy.
For the record, I have beaten Towers quest with henchmen, doing that is far far more difficult than doing this with henchmen.
Also, henchmen will run when you do, as long as you cast when they are behind them and begin to run before they engage, sounds working as intended to me.
Secondly, Henchmen will stay and fight *after* they engage, in order to let *you* escape and possibly come back and rez later, or just try and continue without them.
I would prefer that I run and they stay instead of they run and I die... I dont know about you.
Tsunamii Starshine
butcherboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
you dont have to take a fighter
take either the mage or the archer instead of the fighter so they dont charge in
I noticed my henchies seem to charge into just about any mosh pit. The good thing is I noticed that I am faster than my henchies so I have about 2 seconds to draw a group to a more advantageous position or Stephan will charge to his demise followed by the rest of the group. Hence why disposition commands are needed - defensive, agressive, and free-range(indicate where you are going on the map and send in the henchies to clear out all of those pointless -6 level monsters).
I'll have to re-arrange my group for the "Fire Temple" bonus on the rescue the prisoners and keep Prince Valium alive mission.
take either the mage or the archer instead of the fighter so they dont charge in
I'll have to re-arrange my group for the "Fire Temple" bonus on the rescue the prisoners and keep Prince Valium alive mission.
Mystic Chinese
You can get better henchmen from Piken Square - they are lvl 6 vs lvl 3 in ascalon. And yes, strategy is definately needed to complete Ashes. You have to lure small groups and kill them one at a time. Those creatures in Dragons Gate are incredible. I can't wait to see what else this place has in store for me!
Lewick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK
All im gonna do is "laugh my ass off"
it's people like this in which i love to watch get murdered when those patrols come... i back off slowly, as the party gets slaughtered... and low and behold im the last one alive on alot of instances. People think they can just run in and kill anything, and it's actually something that makes me keep playing, it adds its own humor to the game. Thanks Anet, keep it up. He obviously hasn't reached Black Curtain and beyond yet. The first time we encountered the patrols in Black Curtain I was, erm, annoyed.
I like the fact that the game requires strategy. Coming from several other MMORPGs, it's refreshing to have a game that doesn't require me to sit in one place and slaughter the same respawning mob repeatedly until I gain a level.
it's people like this in which i love to watch get murdered when those patrols come... i back off slowly, as the party gets slaughtered... and low and behold im the last one alive on alot of instances. People think they can just run in and kill anything, and it's actually something that makes me keep playing, it adds its own humor to the game. Thanks Anet, keep it up. He obviously hasn't reached Black Curtain and beyond yet. The first time we encountered the patrols in Black Curtain I was, erm, annoyed.
I like the fact that the game requires strategy. Coming from several other MMORPGs, it's refreshing to have a game that doesn't require me to sit in one place and slaughter the same respawning mob repeatedly until I gain a level.
Tobyus
Quote:
I assume there are 2 places that count for this quest, it just seems strange for her to have died in 2 different places...neat trick.
Noahoneill
Althea's Ashes is an extremely easy quest..
Mongo Like Beans
My group killed everything at the altar without a single death. It is really pretty damn easy if you don't just go running head long into mass amount of mobs...
Azmodan
I have never had so much fun doing a quest. It was a little difficult, but fun as hell.
I decided to start from Yak's Bend and hike to the corridor. I figured, having a party of 6 would be much better then a party of 4.
We drew single groups out, killed them, re-grouped and did it again.
I decided to start from Yak's Bend and hike to the corridor. I figured, having a party of 6 would be much better then a party of 4.
We drew single groups out, killed them, re-grouped and did it again.