the underworld is too cool for your country

Even though this is one of the finest and well thought out games I have played there are several game mechanics that I fell would be better if changed. One of the most annoying is that one can only get into the under world of fissure of woe when their country has favor. PVP and PVE have been treated as two seperate worlds by the game untill this. Builds and even players play better in role playing than in the arena and visa versa. Most characters in the arena are infact PVP only characters. This treatment of PVP and PVE as seperate entities is good for the game. With the restriction on the underworld and fissure based on the arena there is little most PVE people can do to get them open again. It's not like some one who wants to get into the undeworld will simply get a group together and head off to the hall of hero's and clean the place up. Maybe but not likely.

How is this a suggestion? If you have a great PvE player ready for UW or FoW, then all you need to do is go to your character screen, make a PvP character, make them as good as you can, and fight. That or you can use your PvE character. Really when it comes down to it, if you have the best items, the right build, you don't need a PvP only character to be good. A PvE player with a foci that adds 1 to their favored skill with only 11% really isn't going to tip the scale against the PvP person who's got 20%.

And it's not like this is anything new. It's been like this since GW went gold(maybe before then?) so why complain now like it's something new? If you want to win the HoH for your country, get in a PvP guild, make a set time for everyone to get on, use TS, Vent, or any other voice communication you see fit, and fight. You're not going to win at first. A lot of the people in HoH have played it before, and their experience with it alone will smite you. But if you keep working at it you eventually win. It's really not hard. There's hundreds of chances a day to win.

@The OP
--
Can you provide some suggestion as to what you would consider a better system to be?

The only suggestions that i can think of is getting rid of the restrictions on entrance to the underworld or fissure. This or something that involves a 5 minute wait for people in countries without favor and none to those from the country without. This way it would be more of a hinderance for your country to not have favor than a problem in my opinion.

Personally, I enjoyed Darkness Falls for DaoC a hell of alot, sadly with the system it won't be nearly that but, it holds the same ideal, conquer more towers and your realm can now enter Darkness Falls, those within were allowed to remain in and could RvR (realm versus realm) with people coming in, a few, such as infils and such, would stay in just praying on the opposing sides no matter who owned it.

Though I am sort of with you on the aspect of PvP being seperate from PvE, this is not really a case of joining them, as much as it is a good bonus to winning, they could as soon do nothing, many games have similar. Plus, I do not know a time when I have been actually unable to get into UW, it just is not a big deal when it is gone, or when it is here.

You have to remember that America has favor basically all the time (90%) and that Europe and Korea share the other 10% (with about 7% korea). people who don't like the WaW system tend to be European (as when europe gets it is is about 2-3am in europe)
People who like it are usually American.

Americans need to open their eyes to the suffering that the rest of the world bears for the sake of american affluence.

you saud i don't know any time when i can't get in. that either means you are american or a very positive european who works the late shift.
koreans i think basically have it at their peak time so no problems there.

i don't think that totally splitting PvP and PvE would be a good idea but ToPK does need rethought as americans have had exclusive access rescently.

the addition of SF does a lot to make things better. giving everyone a high lvl area to kill stuff.

I thought to op was suggesting removing the requirement for your region to have favour before gaining access to FoW or UW. Many people (myself included) don't play PvP, but still want access to the fissure and underworld.

/signed

I think it`s good that PvE and PvP aren`t splitsed;

I mean (for european ppl speaking) you would get bored when you can go in there all the time. And for the ppl who are PvP, they have something to fight for.

I am American and I know we have it a hell of alot, but, I think the problem needs to be readdressed not for losing this feature, I enjoy the feature and do not merely because we have control, but for making shifts easier, like the longer a country holds it the less rounds must be won against them, the less a country holds it, the less rounds they must win against others, both are stacked, while increasing the "overall" number for battles needing to be won to ensure that if one side continues its victories after losing say one, it won't change hands too fast.

Now, what would need to happen is a creation of a contiuum designed on favor of the gods, where at a set amount of raising this, the favor of the gods transfers to you, but they do not move their "eyes" so to speak from the others. As one side (calling it side since America and Korea are countries while Europe is a continent) retains the FotG for longer, then the ability to garner that attention and retain that attention begins to fade, only by a constant supremacy could they keep it with no lapse in victory.

We can give this continuum a number of say 100, notice this does not require 100 favor to be gained, so keep this in mind. It moves on who is at the highest for favor, so at the beginning of the system, no one has held it for any given time, all are on a level playing field, say America wins the first, and gains favor at, let us call it 5, notice that unless all time is equal between the three sides, it will not be at 5 out of 100, nor will it realistically ever be at 100 except in extreme cases. Now the next time if a side were to gain up to 6, let us say Korea gained 10 to make my next example easier, favor would transfer to them, and that is the new area to achieve, though at this time, it kicks America down by a percentage rounded down or up whomever cares, let us say 10% BASE Percentage of the current victors, meaning America drops by 1 down to 4, Korea is at 10, Europe is at 0.

Now, sides are assigned a number based on how long they have held favor, not on wins or losses, simply time holding favor, within an average period of say the last 4 hours, this will also help facilitate victory and loss over a set amount of time, if one team lost a lot earlier and is now winning everything then only recent victories will eventually begin to count. The longer a team has held favor, the harder it becomes to hold it as favor is gained slower, the more of a loss they will sustain during changing of hands, and the more of a loss they will sustain from losing. The shorter a team has held favor, the inverse, favor is gained faster and lost slower. Notice that both of these stack, and are in relation to any side, meaning you can gain favor by defeating one team constantly that is not currently holding the favor, and not lowering their point value at all anyway.

Thus, if America has 100 favor at time of taking it, say Korea had 95, this drops them to 85, while Europe has 65 and has not held it for a noticable amount of time. Next victory against America, Europe gains say 12 points, meaning they are up to 77, while America loses say 6 points, they are down to 94, and still hold favor. Were they to do this once again, they would gain favor at 89 and America would lose favor to 88, though with that change of favor, America and Korea will both, let us say percentage is rounded up, lose 9 points, but America has held it so long to increase that enough to suffer 10 points, while Korea has not held it long enough and only loses 7 points.

Thus, Europe is at 89, America is down to 78, and Korea is at 78 as well. Now, Europe begins holding it for a while, let us say no battles take place for a two hour period (just bear with me), now Europe has a much greater average percentage, America has a fair amount, and Korea has less, next victory Europe claims over Korea, Korea only drops by say 2 points, while Europe only gains say 4 points, we are now at E93, A78, K76.

Notice with the system, favor changing hands is facilitated a lot faster and more often depending on time held, and will remain constantly within a widely varying range, most often I would be considering it to build to around 75-90 points, though the system is sort of flawed because I cannot do all of the math to assure that it doesn't simply even out. Just realize, losses are going to be smaller inherently than victory, and holding it longer makes it more difficult on your side to continue holding it, while it becomes easier for the others to gain it. A side can take favor without ever engaging your side "technically", and can do so with a couple of quick victories, while you may need to achieve 5 victories in a short period of time, though if you have a long lull time between that 3rd and 4th, you may only need the 4th to move you up enough.

Side note, percentage drops are based on the amount of points, I believe it should be this way at least at first thought, at time of acension, which means if you had to get 79 or greater to gain favor, got 85, then it is based off of 85, not say your 76 you had earlier.

A lot of numbers thrown around, but, I hope someone decides to read it, believe me I want balance as much you do.

Sure thing this system is not flawed... yeaaah... suuuuuure thing. I'm quite sure there are more europeans on the american servers than there are playing on european servers in total. But that is of course not flawed. As the remaining europeans can simply (!) go into the hall and get favor. No problem at all, those screwy europeans need to shut up.

Enough of that, i'm european myself and i refuse to change over to america. And while the situation improved a bit lately, favor is a luxury. And to those saying go and get the hall... well, did you try it yourself? I'm quite sure you will realise real soon that it is not as easy as going in and claiming it. Besiders, i don't want the PVPers to do PVE. So the PVP Folks should not force the PVErs to do PVP.

I had always considered the Temple to be sort of an extra for those who do want to PvP, those who do not want to PvE can lose the massive storyline, all of the quests, and the interaction outside, now that they have unlockable content, though I am unsure of how this works since I've unlocked most of what I may ever need in PvE.

The only problem is, what PvP aspect are you going to give them to make them want to conquer the Hall besides simply that desire? As great as it is, I will go play an FPS game when my victories are just for victories, when it is an MMO style, I get sick of winning when it means absolutely nothing. PvE is the easiest way to design it, since it is an addition, as opposed to simply difference as an arena or something would be, which does not amount to much, while that addition is far from necessary.

Or perhaps, I could offer a suggestion to that side where both contribute in a similar manner, I'll do that in another topic, titled "Trials of the Gods".

Just a thought:

How about a new arena at ToA, and to enter UW/FOW your team must win a single round against a team from Europe/Korea (who is attempting to do the same thing as you)

This avoids the favor issue, and also eliminates the need to conquer the top level teams for UW/FOW access.

If you win, you automatically enter UW/FOW (no more 1 plat)
If you lose, you try again. (against another team)

It also basically eliminates solo farming in the UW/FOW!

And also totally screws over every inventive build that would work in the Underworld but would NEVER do so in a PVP Environment. Come one, how good will for example a geomancer tank do in PVP? Or a Hydromancer with Glyph of Concentration skilled on AoE Interruption? Those will simply get crushed and you'll head down there with the typical "Smiter" build. Great Idea.

Once again could the PVP Crowd please answer me why PVE Content should EVER be dependent on PVP? And vice versa? Let the PVErs play the game to its FULL content if they want to, don't force them into the mind***king PVP Experience there is. With all those wannabe elitists, rank-***res, egomaniacs, morons etc...
PVP is not fun, unless you like playing in an environment of assholes.


/edit:
Stupid Autocensor.
I'd consider asshole more of an offense than rankwho*e -.-

nice attitude.


Once again ill state i am a PVE'r 90%, and i dont see why its always PVE vs PVP.

I think what Anet are trying to promote is PVE'rs to try PVP and visa versa to gain favor.

I have no problem with favor (i did once), my problem is with the unfairness of the way it is won.

There are more americans playing and they have +5 hours peak time gaming than us due to time zones.

We have some good people playing for europe and winning favor, but always it seems to be at around 9 to midnight that we get it during weekdays.

Not really ideal for the majority of us.

Grow up

Not sure why UW and FoW are totally locked out unless you have favor. Making it possible to gain entrance by paying even more money seems feasible to me.

I guess it's mainly just a.nets way to try to force PvP and PvE to have a common link in some way.

I think promote is a better word, as you dont NEED to pvp to get in there. you can just wait for someone else to win.

I really cant see this being an issue if it wasnt for the fact we have it around 5-10% of the time or something ridiculus like that.

if we had it say 30-40% of the time, only those who like to complian would still do so.

5-10% favor is just rubbish.

So in short, you can be a pure PvPer and have access to all contents, but you can't be a pure PvE player ?


I don't know. I guess most PvE players are not trying to find a replacement prize, but just saying they'd don't like PvE being limited by PvP.

Most (american) PvPers will just say, go out, and fight for the Favor of the Gods. As previously pointed out in this thread, PvP and PvE are two different beasts. I'm a pure PvE player, with very little experience in PvP. What good will I do ? Best thing for Europe would be for me to move to America. I pity the team that will take me on

I'm sure I could learn, but I bought GW for one good reason : it advertised being geared toward the casual player, which I am. I don't play that much, so it might as well be fun, and well, what little I have seen in PvP didn't seem fun at all. Not the crowd I want to hang with.

So A.net gave us new zones, it's a nice move. Still, I'd like to try Fissure and Underworld a few times, but won't play at 2 a.m. for that. I thought the whole WaW idea was fun on paper, but it ends up being two high-level zones for America only. I won't stop playing over that, but I can't help but feel that, I don't know, Europe and Korea should be given a discount for not having the full game.

Europe and Korea can just as easily take the favour as needed ... they just dont cause we have a boat load of idiots who play all hours of the night cause we are addicted. Dont have to say it ... I just did. Many times before I have seen Korea with the favour but europe was unfortunate because they had it the least. Not to say that they din't have it at all ... they have and quite often they took it before we get off of work. Then they all (not entirely all but alot of them) decided to jump onto our servers in america ... now we have basically knocked 1 of 2 opponents out by having them play with us on our servers ... I dont think they deserve a discount cause its almost a pathetic attempt offering them pity. I would be insulted if I was from Europe or Korea at that. Euro's have alot of pride, from my experience, hence why they rarely ever teamed up previously.

But you wouldn't be playing 'typical' PvP builds. You'd be playing other UW teams, who are also tying to reach uw/fow. Neither team could re-skill after the battle, so you'd have to take the UW build into PvP. Your geomancer tank will do just as well as the other teams tank.

I don't see the problem, please explain.

Don't flame me here, flame the community. Or have you closed your eyes on what is actually HAPPENING in PVP?

Example a:
Team joins
A: "Have fun and a fair match"
B: "LOOOL STFU NOOB; ME ROCKZ0RS!"

Example b:
A: "What skills did you bring?"
B: "I'm rank 9!!!!!!"
A: "Yes, i don't care, what skills did you bring?"
A: "Noobs!!!"
A Leaves

And this is VERY common in PVP with all the elitists around. To me this is clearly a display of a community of assholes. And the only way to avoid this bullshit is to not PVP at all. Did you understand it this time? It's not my attitude, it is the arrogant attitude of large amounts of the PVPers. If you didn't get it, look aroud in these forums and have a look as to who mainly is trying to bash others. Olé.
If you read in these words that ALL PVPers are assholes, you need to learn how to read and how to stop reading things that are not written.

Because it is the both extreme sides and thus they are both compared in comparison.

Let them do it then, how many of those that want to go into the UW did really try the Hall of Heroes to gain favor? I'd like to make an estimation that most PVErs who were excluded from the UW/FoW mostly quit the game.

Free speech, censorship and your wannabe try to flame me have nothing in common. Try again, try harder. But know that i don't care what you think of me and that i don't care if you get offended by a few words that got censored anyway. On a sidenote, also know that i am 34 years old, have a family, a wife and two small children. I've got a job which i'm very happy with. I'm 1,93 m large. Now where exactly should i grow up again? Maturity? I'm more mature than most. Size? Same here.


It was an extreme example. It is just a fact that some builds do better in PVP than others. You do agree on that don't you? The same build that works in PVP won't probably work in PVE (like the invinci monk - they got literally shattered to death). Do you still agree?
The builds that would dominate in the fight would be those that are leaning into PVP. They would reach the Underworld as they were more fitting to the PVP Environment. But they won't stay down there for long as their build is less fitting in a PVE Environment.

Nonetheless, every concept that blocks out a specific build just because it is not able to compete with another party in PVP while it would be THE answer in PVE is just taking away from the freedom of choice.

I'd like to hear some people from Anet about it.

If they don't want to change it then they should say so.
If they are planning on some fix, they should say so.

Either way, and despite some comments from the dev team in these threads, they don't seem to care at all about it. I may be harsh and apology if i'm wrong.

There is not any clear and official statement from Anet that says they are going to do/not going to do something about it. Supposedly they are close the the gamer community... Please prove it and give us some infos, not screenshots.

First off, i may come across as a bit of a troll. But i wasnt trying to flame you.

Yes i have come across that before, i simply ignore it as i find thats its the attitude of a few that act so childish (sometimes it does seem like everyones out to call you and your team noob so i now where your coming from), and ive come across WORSE than that in PVE.

one guy was whispering to me every name under the sun because i didnt do what he said to, despite the fact that through everypart of the mission he completly ignored anyones instructions and did his own thing.

People can be tits, But normally its only a fair few like this.

Making a comparison is one thing, what i am sick of hearing is some PVE's trashing PVP and vica versa.

like calling them all assholes.

Well youve abviosly taken this badly, so ill say this.

I didnt set out to flame you so sorry on that note.

But go round calling all PVP's assholes and swearing everyother word, does not make you look like a grow up.

Yes, I understand. I am all PvE, but would rather have my fate in my own hands, so to speak, and not depend on some mysterious PvP team to gain favor.

How about this:

There is a PvP arena in ToA.
Only PvE chars can enter this arena.
Victories gain Favor and Rank/Fame, but no Faction or Rewards.
When your Nation has Favor, everything works like it does now.
When your Nation loses Favor, YOU can help get it back.

Currently, if your side loses favor, the vast majority of PvE players can't DO anything about it. Were SOL. By putting the arena here, PvE players aren't dependant on PvPers who don't really care about Favor anyway.

Mhh ... I don't really see what it will change from the actual game mechanics. You would see people turning their PvE character into IWAY, Smites, N Builds to enter the arena, just as it is now...

Just for humor's sake... Shouldn't the title of this read: "The underworld is too cool for your continent"

anyway, I can honestly see the frustration of the Europians, back upon release, America couldn't wrestle favor from the Korean's for very long... I'm guessing they all got bored, and moved to another game, since America always has favor these days...

It is INCREDIBLY Difficult for Europe to win HoH, since their teams are outnumbered 100:1 most times... not to mention if they come across a counter build to theirs, not only does their team lose, but now their whole Continent suffers their tragic defeat.

I'd kinda be in favor of underworld being free to those with favor.
pay to play for those without.

oh and much like skills, just friggin double the cost to get in, everyone wins -- sorta =P

Some interesting thoughts, but i like it how it is im a european in american servers and every european i know is also in american servers, euro is getting it back quite a bit recently and koreans have had it very little but ive stopped going as it has got as boring as smiters and iway builds, they need something to bring new life into it

It doesn't change the nature of the PvP battles, it changes the composition of the PvP battles. They would be filled with PvE characters, people discouraged/disenchanted with PvP Ladder play, fighting for a simple purpose. Favor.

There is no obligation beyond a couple of battles. No guild crap, No HoH crap.

CTF, Capture The Favor.

The problem is, I believe with anything besides a simplified system (notice within my own, one victory after 4 hours straight holding it by a team, would probably allow a team to control it, as well, if a team won it and held it for 2 hours, then the team with 0 time to it has a major advantage and would only have to win twice, though maybe if the time was moved out to say 6 or 8 hours it would make it more obvious if one team claimed it, another team held it for a while, without allowing that first team to immediately claim it once again after only 4 hours, which is a rather short time.

I would almost agree with paying for it lacking the favor of the gods, there still needs to be some system within the game giving that HoH a true purpose and merit beyond simply ranking and ladders, it has to be a reason to win it. I cannot see that the few plat you spend for a decent run is that big of a loss when essentially you will be a PvEr, who has been slaughtering dwarves and giants left and right, I think you all can scrape together 2k without much of a problem, even inside.

As much as, to be honest and blunt, you PvErs want to whine, piss, and moan about being forced into PvPers, anyone who has ever wanted to PvP has been cut off at the ankles in practically every game ever released, even DaoC, which had one of the best focuses and systems for PvP, shifted heavily towards a highly PvE aspect, and realistically it was far more difficult to level purely via PvP within the BG (I did it 32-37, but that is another story), and many games do force people to PvE if they want to PvP. Thus, if ArenaNet wants to place a bit more of a pinnacle to doing PvP, since you can truly assign top seats and so forth (notice that is possible with Trials of the Gods!) in such a way, and give something unique towards that victory, I am all in favor of it.

Until someone gives a reasonable other reward for winning the HoH that is a much more worldwide and linked effect, and an alternative system to gaining UW via PvE means that is better than TotG or something akin, I could not, for what it is worth, agree with changes to the system, except with respect to how I did it, making it easier to claim the less you have it and more difficult to hold the more you do.

Sort of one word to explain why Koreans aren't so big in hoh "Lineage 2" (not sure about the "2" but whatever). Last I heard 1 out of 3 over there play lineage2. Now, I play mostly pvp anymore...because honestly the pve gets very repetitive to me (no offence), and there are many assholes in pvp but ignore them. I will always say "gg" at the end of a match regardless of win or loss, regardless of how they ranted or raved. It is actually for people like that that I wish there was a monthly fee, so that they could not afford the chunk out of there allowance to play everymonth :P (no need to flam, for those of you who didn't catch the sarcasm it was mostly a joke). The assholes in pvp are most probably idiots in reallife anyhow, so a person with 1.93m large or something like that can simply overlook them...cause well, you have a life they wish they had...maybe.

Anyway, I like the idea to fight a tourny into uw/fow, it would probably cut down on FOTM builds because they suck in pve.
However if thats not good enough, I say free for favor nation, 1k a person for non favor, so total of 8k a run per team...lets you get in but only if you really must have it now, and you can make over 2k a trip atleast with a non idiot team.

I have an off the wall idea's.

With the next expansion, introduce 1-2 more relams with the statues. Open up Fow/Uw to the world but put the new realms in the same "favor" system.

Create a secondary access (like someone said eariler) keep favor system but if you beat Hoh, you can go on to access (reguardless of who has favor). Maybe go on a difficult PvE quest that's only access w/o favor to gain access (and make it challenging) but retain your PvE team.

Have everyone access Fow/UW but if you don't have favor, things will be missing (like Fow Armorer) or have drops be at 1/2 rate or some sort of penalty for not having the favor (jack price to 2k plat maybe as mention elsewhere?).

Some ideas, nutshell kinda keep the system but allow an alt access to it that has to be earned each attempt in a non-HoH way or the access isn't "full" featured if you don't have favor via HoH.

About EternalTempests Idea, i think we allready have highlevel content for those that completed the game. If you could only repeat the quests there once you completed the final assault

on paper the World at War system is good

in reality, it sucks

reason being is because anyone who is peeved off at not having favor has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Guild Wars is designed in such a way that a bunch of angry players can't just go and say "let's all meet in Tombs 3 and get favor back". they would lose in round 1 in Tombs.

in short, the PVE reward has no direct connection to the players who win that reward for the realm in the HoH. hence, the current system makes no sense whatsoever

they should keep the concept of World at War, but change it so that PVE players who are peeved off at having no favor can actually go do something about it directly

one way would be to make sure that teams from the same country never ever fight each other in Tombs.

another way would be to take the connection of ToA/HoH away from Tombs entirely, and attach it to an entirely new PVP mode

in any case, the current system of players who happen to win the HoH having no relevance whatsoever to the ToA side of the game is obviously a ludicrous one that must be changed

You're right, this is blunt. To be as honest as you are, I don't think PvE players are whining. I don't want to whine. I don't even want to have to whine.
Your point is, PvP players have been served scraps in other games, so it's OK if they get the good stuff in this one ? I beg to differ. It's OK if PvP gets good stuff, have your fun. It's not OK that it gets _the_ good stuff, and deprives non-PvPers in the process.
It's fine if GW is PvP-friendly, but that's not the reason I bought it in the first place, and certainly not what was advertised at the time.

The whole PvE-PvP interaction is going awry anyhow. A.net finally admitted it was stupid to force PvPers to run PvE just to unlock upgrades, and created factions. WaW is going so great that European servers feel like ghost towns (dommed from the start because of server switching anyway), and massive exodus hasn't even increased the overall player level : PUGs become hard to come by, and are no better than before. Why not create a PvE faction system ? Earn some <name> points in PvE, that you can spend to access restricted zones.

As for proposing an alternative : why should I ? I don't know the PvP population. Well, what little I saw, I don't like. Isn't the rank thing with the animal emotes enough ? Why don't PvPers make a wish-list for PvP rewards ? All we (PvE players) want is a PvE-based way to access a PvE element.

The problem is, both sides don't really try to see the other sides view, and each side seems to think the other has it better. There seems like PvP/PvE will always fight eachother as most cannot see the merit of the opposite side. It honestly seems to me that PvP and PvE have already completely seperated regardless of how much the developers wanted it to work together. Most PvE'ers rarely go in to arenas or tombs, and vice versa.

As for the list for Rewards, I did that and got mostly flamed by PvE'ers who thought I wanted to steal all their pve fun.

I honestly think everything should be open to both sides, give the PvE'ers some sort of "hero" emote to compete with the animal emote, same difficulty to achieve though.
Let the pvp'ers unlock some of the cool "vanity" stuff the pve'ers have. Make them pay same prices in faction as the end cost in gold(including materials) for them to get unlocked though. Flame away, but I think nothing should be held from either side, not the fame emote, or the FoW/15k armor.

problem overview:

- Fame unequally divided, America has it too much.
Reason: American Server has a lot more players.

- For some PvE PvP connection.
People don't want to PvP to PvE so to speak.

- Too many Europeans in American Server.
Reason: Mainly because they have the favor more often.
Which leads to problem finding proper parties for.. a lot of things not only the Tombs.

- Europeans and Koreans have less of a peak time.


Yes you can say it only takes 8 skilled players... but that's the problem.. they're hard to find.. especially if a lot of them transfered to the American server.



Here are some solutions.. I'm not saying I'd be pleased with any of them.. they're just posibilities.

Solutions:

- Disconnect the link between PvE and PvP, thus always having free entrance to FoW and UW.

- Make the price like 8K (1K p.p) if your continent doesn't have favor, but you're still allowed to enter.

- Get everyone back to their original servers and don't allow swapping of servers.

- Add new areas which are similair to FoW and UW, which are free to enter at any given time.

- Add certain parts/quests in FoW and UW, that are only accesable if your continent have the Favor, but the rest will be accesable.


again.. I'm not saying these are THE solutions that MUST be implemented.. merely stating posibilities.

The problem also is America vs Europe and Korea. I don't think PvE players in America complain too much, considering they are disconnected from PvP for all practical purposes. And no, PvE and PvP have not _completely_ separated yet. I just wish A.net would cut that final link. Or make it 2-ways. Like, no-one can obtain his tiger emote before a given number of PvE players complete some stupid quest. 'Cause that's what it feels like to wait for Favor : like hoping for rain, you can't do anything but wait. And no, don't even bother to tell me to compete. I'd rather move to another game than eat up 100+ hours of PvP just to up my PvP skills.

I wouldn't want that. It's a good thing that people can choose who they play with.
On the other hand, I wonder how this plays out for A.net. How do they deal with half of Europe's population loading America's servers ?

I thought they had Geography in elementary school.
Let me teach you all a shocking fact. "American Servers" covers all countries in North America, Central America and South America.
I am playing from Argentina, and upon registration automatically got assigned to American servers.
They ARE players from all countries of America (as in, the continent, or continents, depends on who you ask) playing. I am currently in a Guild with +20 players from Argentina alone, and I know at least 2 more Argentine Guilds of similar size or larger are out there. Canadians are here too.
If you do simple math, even if europeans played in the servers they are supposed to, Koreans and Europeans are still in statistical disadvantage, assuming those servers cover only Korea and Europe. However, I wonder, what servers are asigned by default to players who are neither European, American or Korean?

BTW: USA citizens should really start calling its country by its name, but I guess they are too lazy to add those 2 words that go before America.
I just had to type that

First, I never said to go compete, I don't like the people who try to tell eachother the way to play the game. You like pve, great, some like pvp, great too. It really doesn't bother me, what does is the fighting that occurs between the pve hardcore, and the pvp hardcore. Both sides always think the other has a one up or something, and refuse to think they deserve anything else. I agree a pve place should not be held from pve'ers, I even gave the 8k for teams with out favor idea.

And for all purposes pvp and pve are seperated..the only thing that ties them together is the favor system and *both* sides unwillingness to see eye to eye on any issue.

I believe Anet's reason for favor is to somewhat mimic the system in Lineage2 to steal some of its following, and if you don't think people live and breath Lin2 in korea, go look here www.mmogchart.com . In lineage2 the person who controls a certain area or something gets to set taxes for all items bought in that area...somewhat similar to getting the ability to go to a place with good drops when you hold favor.

Lol, exactly what I did (or tried to do).
2 weeks (and about 15x galrath) later I swapped server and took 6 european friends with me and we never regretted doing that ever since
It's sooo much better now that we can go trapping in UW whenever we friggin want to instead of like once every night, and sometimes not atall.

And if we'd be forced to stay on euroserver I'm sure half of us would quit

And that's exactly the problem.. The euroserver needs to be at least as attractive as the American one.. I mean we're allready divided in language districts.. it's hard to find a party as it is.. but a lot of people go to the American server with the single gain of FoW UW entrance.

I've promised myself and some others that we wouldn't do that, since we'll just stick in Europe.. then it's a bit harder.. and you get in FoW UW a bit less.. we still have lots of fun playing it, and I've tried to get HoH with some groups.. never succeeded but in my point of view.. it'll only make me more experienced after all the more times you're countered the more you'll learn...
apart from the times where the party is just filled with noobs..

But there is potential in Europe quite a lot.. they just need to get together in a party.. and that's the problem since we're divided in languages and people leave to the American server.