Defeating IWAY?

How exactly does this work? How would you get people to actually kill your pet? Wouldn't people just ignore you sit in a ball and about 7 pets run at you. i just kill them and watch all the w/r's go "score!". ofcourse pets are really bugged sometimes and get confused and start running all over the place. so its not really gonna work all the time unless you like bring a longbow and start shooting someone. and anyway the ghost totally owns those pets

good build is 8 ne/m or m/ne using life transfer, life siphon and conjure phant on each warrior/r self healing and kills pretty fast if they dont have many monks. Also since the whole team uses the same build they can go for seperate targets e.g. player 1 attacks opposing player 1 and so forth. Without hex removals that team is going to be dead fairly quickly i seriously doubt 10 pips of regen will save you from an axe warrior attacking with a 33% or 66% increase. have you tried this or is it just an idea?

the big question is, what do you do if the entire team is in a ball and wont leave it? you just stand around talking? eventually someone has to run in, and especially in an altar map its just funny..

um... if the pets die.. it doesnt do a thing. 6 pips of regen, but theyre taking about 22 a second from BA, 37 every like 1.__ seconds from zealots, 60 every 3 seconds from meteor shower, and about 120 everytime someone dies from putrid. if you think that BA doesnt hit everyone, think again. it does unless you have the some of the most seriously incompetent players balling up. why attack someone who has seed on him? asking me? the IWAY teams always go for their opposite number, and if its a monk they generally dont switch just because of seed. not to mention the fire ele usually takes things like phoenix and flameburst. that adds alot.

and no, necros are not the first down when playing against IWAY teams. when sitting in a ball its not that easy to kill the necro when hes standing some distance away spamming orders. thats why you *try* to have the mesmer go for him, which works like 70% of the time, and fails all the time when theres more than one.

you guys should seriously go into tombs and ask anyone in a decent team what they think of an IWAY team... 99% of the people go "free fame". these IWAY builds are ridiculously bad. you wont roll over anything with it.

and FYI, in altar maps, the reason IWAY teams lose isnt totaly based on the fact that they cant prot their ghost. take a 3 way HoH for example. ghost reses all the time, so you might as well just leave him at the start if your an IWAY. question is, if these builds are so strong, why dont they just run in at 2:00 and kil everyone then bring their ghost? thing is, they cant kill anyone. and theyre all bunched up on the altar. altar maps like broken tower and the hoh are really no different from a 1-1 other than the timer (for iways). its the courtyard map that stinks for them because they need to keep someone (the priest) alive to res the ghost, you cant rely on an orb/spawn point.

i seriously thing like 99% of the people who post pro-iway comments are just out of touch/havent played gw recently. GO PLAY THE GAME, then talk. iway builds are laughed at now, you only see these ppl going "rank 2 w/r with a pet LF iway team, i only have ts!!11" and the guys name is like "avenge you i will"

its like the old spike teams. which reminds me, i actually got owned by a spike team lol. it was some crazy guild using it. it was sad. ...

This just shows you aren't reading what anyone's saying. Quit trolling cause that's all this is.

This isn't about bad teams. This isn't about the scrubs who make groups based on rank. You're the only one talking about IWAY played by the masses, aka the bad people, who would lose no matter what they ran. Nobody else here is.

Here's what happens when teams ball up vs us:
-We stand back and pummel away with some ranged weapon to gain adrenaline.
-Fear me spam comes.
-They have 0 energy and stay at 0, even the ether renewal eles, and we chop them up when the enchants are down with the 50% damage increase from IWAY thanks to smiting killing the pets. Signet of Devotion won't stop 7 buffed wars.

We're not near the pets, no putrid, sorry. Because you're stuck in a ball you cannot kill anyone who runs thus without a good ranged spike, which you don't have because you're pbaoe heavy, you can't kill anybody.

That's what staying in a ball accomplishes.

Like Pharalon said the key to IWAY is good player skill. A good build isn't too hard to figure out, but the execution is what will decide the outcome.

I don't care what the average 'decent' team thinks of bad IWAY. They'll lose to good IWAY if they don't run the proper counters (degen/hexes). The only places where a well run IWAY build can lose to non-optimal counters is in courtyard (have to kill both teams offense before you bring the hero) and the hall (same reason). So in other words, in 1v1 any standard stuff will get owned. We aren't out of touch with the game, we're talking about the build we ran and was very successful at any 1v1 map.

Oh and by the way, spike is actually very powerful and can beat up smite teams with ease since you just keep ganking the eles and their support till they can't use any more resses. The beauty of well executed spike is that it makes non-spellbreaker monks useless. They can't keep up with IWAY teams though. Too weak to energy denial and the res sigs will allow them to last long enough.

I was just wondering if there is anyone out there that would like to share a good tombs group build for defeating an IWAY group.

I been trying to think up some ideas, but have been fairly unsuccessful. fight fire with fire. first, im only posting our build to help ppl out. it was being copied the first day we made it so i might as well post it.

make 2 w/r with the IWAY. make sure the pets have 0 in mastery. run double smite off off the warriors. run a healing ball/whatever 2 healers and a prot, make sure you bring martyr. all 3 monks bring ageis, 7 seconds minimum so it can stay up. have a necro for the last character and go 16 death/12 inspiration. run inspred hex/inspired enchantment/drain enchantment/putrid/suffering/profane/tainted/rez sig.

beat them to the punch. if they have 2-3 pets they want you to kill them so they can do IWAY. ablige them and drop one right away. as soon as one goes down putrid so they cant put up a well. then next suffering, then profane. if you notice those 3 spells are in order of casting time. if you dont beat them to the corpse GG yourself. spam tainted the whole time but stay on leaders taget and strip all the enchanments. try to steal tainted from their necro if he has it and double spam that, they wont be able to get rid of the disease unless they martyr.

...

This just shows you aren't reading what anyone's saying. Quit trolling cause that's all this is.

This isn't about bad teams. This isn't about the scrubs who make groups based on rank. You're the only one talking about IWAY played by the masses, aka the bad people, who would lose no matter what they ran. Nobody else here is.

Here's what happens when teams ball up vs us:
-We stand back and pummel away with some ranged weapon to gain adrenaline.
-Fear me spam comes.
-They have 0 energy and stay at 0, even the ether renewal eles, and we chop them up when the enchants are down with the 50% damage increase from IWAY thanks to smiting killing the pets. Signet of Devotion won't stop 7 buffed wars.

We're not near the pets, no putrid, sorry. Because you're stuck in a ball you cannot kill anyone who runs thus without a good ranged spike, which you don't have because you're pbaoe heavy, you can't kill anybody.

That's what staying in a ball accomplishes.

Like Pharalon said the key to IWAY is good player skill. A good build isn't too hard to figure out, but the execution is what will decide the outcome.

I don't care what the average 'decent' team thinks of bad IWAY. They'll lose to good IWAY if they don't run the proper counters (degen/hexes). The only places where a well run IWAY build can lose to non-optimal counters is in courtyard (have to kill both teams offense before you bring the hero) and the hall (same reason). So in other words, in 1v1 any standard stuff will get owned. We aren't out of touch with the game, we're talking about the build we ran and was very successful at any 1v1 map.

Oh and by the way, spike is actually very powerful and can beat up smite teams with ease since you just keep ganking the eles and their support till they can't use any more resses. The beauty of well executed spike is that it makes non-spellbreaker monks useless. They can't keep up with IWAY teams though. Too weak to energy denial and the res sigs will allow them to last long enough. you just say the same thing over and over. seriously. instead of taking a crappy build and working really hard to make it work, find another build and stop arguing. this is pointless.

Hey, I'm not going to argue that you've probably beaten bad players.



Sure, the necro will gain energy from the dead pets when they die, but will that matter? Is he the person that's going to keep his team alive? No. Unreliable energy gain isn't going to help you when you have roughly -25 to -30 pips of energy regen from 7 warriors pumping out fear me's with 33% increased attack speed and dark fury.



You know those bad players I mentioned before? Those are the players using Tiger's Fury in their IWAY builds. Go figure.

Saying that a build is bad because you've beaten bad players using bad versions of it along with bad strategy doesn't really justify anything at all.

I've yet to see fear me used in an IWAY. While I've only seen one iway with IQ people in it, it was a hammer build without fear me.. was in the hall, and you didn't win.

If you're using frenzy, then the aoe would really really destroy the team. I'm sorry, but between the blackouts, frenzy, and the aoe.. your version of the good iway would drop quicker than the bad one against a ball.

I think iway's good enough to be put on a bar, but I don't think it can be the basis of the build. The easiest counter is the ball, so the iway team has to have counters to that (it's own aoe, 2 necros with profane, etc).

If you have a fear me team running with iway and frenzy, maybe you can prove me wrong, but I've yet to see it.. and I seriously doubt it would touch a ball.

I've only seen one good iway team, and that was the guild that started it apparently (the transformers). They had their own ball counters (like an aoe earth ele, two necros) and they did beat our ball.

While you say we've seen a bunch of bad iways, I can say you must have seen a bunch of bad balls. Any group with 7 w/r's is going to be bashed IMO, and in my experience has by our ball. The mesmer is on the support, and the warriors have two choices.. stare at the ball, or come get slaughtered by it.

I have no doubt that IQ can run a significantly better iway group than almost all the crap iway teams we've come up against in the tombs, but until I see it.. it's just a theory that I don't agree with.

the big question is, what do you do if the entire team is in a ball and wont leave it? That's what most teams do, so we're pretty used to breaking balls with IWAY now. Since I don't expect any random pug to follow this, I'll spell it out.

First thing you do is send your pets in at long range. Sometimes a group will kill them, sometimes they won't. It really doesn't matter, they're just there to make a mess of things. After that you test their defenses. Do they have Tainted up? Putrids? Traps? Smiting? Some teams don't have the tools to ball up with, and if that's the case you just run over them anyway.

If they do have the tools you have to go into Fear Me mode. That means you all pull out your Wands, Staves, or Bows, and start sniping at people in the ball from outside of melee range but within Fear Me range - it does have a ward-sized radius, after all. It doesn't take very long to devastate the ball's energy, and a ball with no energy can't use Aegis, Smiting, or the other things that give you trouble. Once they're out, you run in, gank their Necro, repeatedly if neccessary, and mop up.

The pet corpses you have to deal with as well. If it's a map without any auto-res, you simply start running in and out to draw out corpse exploitation skills until they run out of corpses. They don't have any advantage until they use them, after all, so force them out. Usually takes a few minutes to run them out of corpses. If it's a map with auto-res, you simply do the Fear Me anti-ball maneuver until the res mark, then the pets res, and you go smash them.

Of course that's the textbook case. In reality, they usually start running like hell once they've been devastated by Fear Me and the Necros start dropping, and they're left playing as though they never balled up in the first place, except they have no energy to start with. It isn't pretty.

---

Now in fairness, we're the only IWAY team that I know of that can break a decent ball. I'm sure that most IWAY teams run into those balls and die a horrible, well deserved death. To that extent, I agree with you that most IWAY builds are bad.

I don't like seeing that used to dismiss the entire build concept, however. In particular, when the most common counter is something that, in my opinion, allows a *good* IWAY build to operate from a position of strength. Balling up against most IWAY teams will beat them, sure, but if you try and ball up against our IWAY team, *YOU WILL LOSE*, no matter what you're running.

So in that, it does come down to a matter of play skill and most people not knowing what they're doing.

What does beat good IWAY? A selection of good degen, power AoE hexing, liberal use of Aegis, a sprinking of snares, and tight play. Learning how to mitigate their DPS by running is key, and you need to just chew through their weak defenses. Good field awareness is also important, because while you can't ball up, spreading out too much is also certain death - IWAY exploits mismatches viciously, and dividing up your team gives them free kills that'll turn the game into a rout.

The relative simplicity of the build makes it a popular build for your average PUG - the difficulty of holding the HoH with it makes it less popular with more organized groups. I'll repeat that for emphesis - IWAY sucks balls at dais, and will rarely if ever win in the HoH unless a team plays kingmaker for it. It is a devastatingly good build for relic runs however, and is something you should underestimate in a 1v1 situation at your own risk. If you don't have any expectation of winning the hall, I think it's one of the best builds available.

Peace,
-CxE

you can screw over 'fear me-ing' like that by simply running up as a ball to the nearest warrior clump using fear me and eliminate them, something that really isnt hard. rinse and repeat. in your fear me build you are assuming the ball will just sit there like a lump and watch the energy fall. So you're a ball, moving as one, eliminating warriors with likely multiple speed buffs available one by one. Right. *omg, that entire ball is running straight at me, I better stand here and die like a nub* As I said, retreating is essential if you're running with no monk support. You've got 8 characters geared for damage, and that gives you leeway to pull out and have a rest when you get condition/hex stacked. More often than not you'll get lucky and have a nub (or a ball of nubs) try and chase you down, which is just easy kills.