Thunderhead Keep: My help to you

I've read these boards for a while, and have seen one complaint time and time again that rarely gets addressed positively. You've seen it (I suppose...), I've seen it: all those monks/elems/war's complaining about how they can't beat Thunderhead, regardless of how many healers and nukers they bring.

Sure, you can bring 3 monks, 3 elems, and 2 warriors, and hope for the best; as this party "technically" should not have any problem with the mission. However, as most people have seen, listening turns into ignoring; ultimately finding the nearest monk or warrior as the scapegoat.

This mission should not be hard, yet people "believe" that it is. If you have had trouble with this mission, or are currently struggling with the aspects of accomplishing it, I suggest that you take a minute and look at what I have to tell you.
If you have no problem with this mission then, by all means, criticise my tactics and tell me why your strat works better. However, I beg of you, constructive criticism is far more beneficial than calling this post a complete waste of bandwidth.
Also, I am aware that there may be other threads on exactly what I am posting. If so, this is in addition to those strategies, and I hope that it is able to help anyone who still tends to have trouble accomplishing this mission with any "decent" group.

**Spoiler Alert**
just in case...

Rather than using a cut/paste group consisting of monks/wars/eles, look around. It is great to have two healing monks, as the King may come into harms way as your group fights into the early part of the mission.

Reasons to bring these classes. My oppinions...

Two warriors.
This helps keep some mobs off of your lighter armored allies, and can obviously help hold off the Jades in the latter parts.
One/Two Monks.
Healing. You don't need much protection in this mission, other than the lackluster amount of Jades that rush you in the keep.
One Necro.
Wells. Enough said. Ask them if they have Well of Power and Well of Blood, as both of these can help dramatically in keeping your warriors alive, and keeping your spellcasters a little higher in that blue bar.
One/Two Rangers.
Often overlooked (other than their trapping), a ranger can be effective. Simply enough, one ranger can talk to the King, keeping him back for part of the fight while he applies his preperations. They can also be useful in interrupting some of the named mobs later in the mission.
One/Two Elementalists.
Have them use fire, as this tends to hurt the larger groups much more than any other element. I don't need to tell you why they are needed, as their damage speaks for itself.
One Mesmer.
If anything, you will want a Mesmer in your group. Like the ranger and necro, they are often overlooked because "support" tends to be ignored in comparison to healing/damage. Domination can really assist you when defending the keep, as they can easily cripple and interrupt the strongest of targets.

Basically, you want to bring sufficient healing, tanking, support, and damage. A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

Starting:
Assuming this is your group, as these classes should not be too hard to find with 5 minutes of waiting.

Two Warriors
One Necro
Two Monks
One Mesmer
Two Elementalists

With their popularity, one of the warriors is a W/Mo. Have them max their weapon, shield stat if need be, and as many into healing to get mend to +3 (9 I belive). The warrior hits the King with a Mend, and keeps it on him for the entire mission. Perhaps they focus on adrenaline, so energy isn't too much of a problem with keeping mend up.

Have a spell-caster (not monk) grab the King. This will help keep the king out of harms way (hopefully), and prevent him from taking too many hits early on. The reason I keep him off of a monk is because the monk will be running around, spamming warriors and the group with heals. In this situation, the King can go wherever, which is not what you need when you are clearing the keep.

Move out slowly, and have one person barking orders. Designate this before the group starts if possible, so you do not end up having three arrows pointing every which way as you manuever yourself to counter-agro. A warrior tends to help with this, as they usually lead the group into battle. Leadership is crucial, and shout NOT be overlooked. This is the main reason why groups fail this mission is because of the lack of leadership/communication between members.

Make sure the warriors do not rush when you are 10/70 energy. Have someone spam something in the beggining about clicking their energy whenever it is "hazardous". This way you don't have any unecessary deaths early on that can cause tention and fewer persons in the game. It's all helpful to the group, and can easily prevent problems when the warrior thought you were "good to go".

Manuever through the area, taking out a group at a time. Once you come to the long bridge, have 7 people wait at the far end while a warrior pulls a lone group down. Make sure your allies are not too close, as often times the Monk Boss patrols that area, healing everything with little effort.
If this happens to you, make sure the mesmer knows his job, and unload quickly on the Name. If you don't have a mesmer, try and take out as many minions as you can before you attack the Name. If you try and fight the Name with 10+ minions attacking your casters, you're done. Energy gets too low, and...well...lots of pissed people.

Move up the hill, and take out whatever is in your path. Again, make sure your casters are ready.

**Remember that necro? If you have one, his wells are very helpful in this part of the game. Of course, they can be a minion-master, yet in the end corpses grow scarce, and their power dwindles.**

Take out each enemy group in the "town?" (whatever it is), then have your ranged persons take out their archers in the two towers before the King opens the door.

Wait until one of the Dolyak groups moves up, and engage the lone group at the bottom. Take your time, as there is no reason to rush and get swamped by mere stupidity.

Now you are at the keep, where a plethora of persons jump to quickly, and end up getting themselves or the King killed.
Take out the groups before the "First set of stairs on your left". I've found that taking these stairs down (the ones that led to the bugged gate) into the courtyard, and "hugging the wall" to avoid the Named (can't remember his name, cut Ruric's head off). Then you will be on the opposite side of the keep. Begin taking out the mobs in a clockwise fashion, as opposed to counter-clockwise. <<You must go through the courtyard in order to engage in a clockwise figure>>
I suggest that way because you tend to get fewer adds. This is my own oppinion, and is what works for me; it is not necessary if you do not want to.

By doing this rotation, you can take out all the mobs while ignoring the "Ruric Killer" (can't remember name!!) in the middle. Blast away with the cattapults and lay waste to the giants. Now attack Ruric Killer.

Next, is debatable, but is what tends to work.

Guard the KING, not the DOORS. If you split your party, your damage is lessened, as is your healing. One named can decimate one side, causing you to run over in assistance. In the meantime, two Jades have walked by from the other door, unscathed and unnoticed. Now the King is dead, and the screen floods with angry blue messages.

Keep your group at the King. It is far easier. Have the warrior keep Mending on the King (just in case). He will not fight unless an enemy happens to break through and attack him. The Mursaat tend to be far more interested with your casters, so have your warriors engage the enemies while they are 3/4 up the stairs. This prevents Line of Sight to your casters, preventing Jade Bows from bothering your lower armors.

Engaging mobs in the Keep:

Targets are as follows, take them out in this order:

1) Jade Bow
2) Mursaat Necro
3) Mursaat Mesmer
4) Mursaat Elementalist
5) Jade Armor
6) White Mantle Casters
7) White Mantle Melee
8) NAMED MURSAAT

First thing that cathes your eye may be the named mobs. Sure, they do lots of damage, but they tank like nothing else. Ignore them until surrounding minions are finished, as your task will be far easier.
Dumping your mana and time into a Named may get it killed, but all the while, 5 more mobs have overwhelmed you, possibly even dropping a few of you. Take out any non-named mobs first, as they will fall much faster, and lower the enemies damage significantly.

I've found this method to be far more effective than having all 8 of you dump your time into a single Named.

Stay up top, and do not stray into the courtyard if at all possible. Let them come up, as they tend to come up 2-3 at a time, and can be picked off quite quickly with all of you assisting on one target.

Through time, good leadership and communication, this mission is easily accomplished. However, with no communication, randomized leadership (and despite the fact you may have 4 elementalists), a group is severely troubled.


If this guide helps you, then I have accomplished my goal. I have ran this tactic five times this week, with five straight wins. I know that it works.

Any suggestions, comments, criticisms, and gratitude is appreciated. If this helps you, let me know. If it doesn't, by all means, post it.

I wish you intelligence, because 'luck' runs out.
-anonymous

Post Statement:
Perhaps a sticky of this, as this guide can be of some help to many people rather than it being lost from the lack of bumping.

This is a very good guide to "The Keep". Changes on the familiar tactics that most people employ actually helped alot. I found the mission alot easier with my necro after trying it your way. Took a while to convince people of the plan since it didn't follow every typical mission rule in the book, but it paid off. Thanks for all the tips.

Yes, that is exactly what I see from most people. They hear this idea, and try to avoid it because it is different.
Glad to see that it helped you!

this mision was easy just stay in the middle and set traps at the steps and put wells

but heres the group i used

2 monks(2 healers)
1 IW(thats me)
2 warriors
1ranger
1 nuker
and 1 blood necro


and BTW stay in the middle with Jalis in the end!its way easier and u must stay together

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I had trouble with the keep as my warrior in the end i did this

2 warriors
rest hench

reason for hench?

You know exactly what a healer hench can do where if u take a human they might be the worlds worst healer but you dont find out until 50 mins into the mission
reason for other henchies is basically that they listen to calls and with 2 people they split up pretty much equally


I did this on my 10th attempt and flew through it no problems

I agree, it's not hard at all. I've done this mission so many times (helping guildies and what not) and only ever failed it once.

It can be put much simpler. STAY WITH THE KING. When he props himself up onto his little throne thing, stay there with him. You can send two competent party members to man the catapaults if you want but you don't need to.

Then you just let them steadily flow into the keep and wipe them out as they come up towards the king. Rarely fails.

I don't know what takes longer.. reading your post or finding a decent group for the mission.

At any rate, that is an excellent guide. Someone should sticky this in the Quest section.

It's an okay guide, but lets be realistic. You have a better chance of hell freezing over and cows jumping over the moon than you have at getting 2 healing monks for the Thunderhead mission within 5 minutes of waiting.

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Mehno is pretty good at healing and I prefer to fight with henches. The main problem with the heal/protection henches is not there healing and protection, but its that they can't rez properly. You could have the entire team down except for the healer and protection hench, and they would rather wand monsters to death instead of trying to rez a human player (very very frustrating). I've yelled at them many times but I think I'm on their ignore list.

Are henchies infused now? Because they always get killed by Spectral Agony whenever I use them in any mission with Mursatt or Jades in it.

I have one suggestion.

Don't give Jalis to the Ranger. Have your ranger run ahead a ways and set traps. Makes things easier once they get close... so long as Jalis doesn't follow the Ranger.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

cant say it often enough:

A well rounded group works better than a group that is not rounded! Anywere!

I find it still funny people demand on 3 monks for the tombs, wasting one space for a "good class" like a ranger AND a mesmer AND a necromancer.

oh and ask the warrior if it usses mending, it he says yes, or nothting at all, get rid of that ignorant egoistic bastard before he screws you up!

Well, I did it. I beat Thunderhead last night with my ranger after 17 attempts to get into a good group. Some luck was really on our side because we had the healer and protector henches and 4 people in our random pug had never done the mission before. Luckily I had completed this mission several times before with other characters, and there was a necro in my group that had done it before. We walked the other guys thru it and it worked out really well. We had 2 elementalist on the team and had them fire the cats. It was an additional bonus having the ele's up top so they could nuke incoming enemies at the gate entrances. I set traps at the entrances accordingly. The necro raised minions and used them to block the entrances so nothing could get thru. We didn't need to watch the King, and we basically stayed down below except for the ele's on the cats that pinged the map when there was activity on their side. The healer/protector henchs followed me because I was calling the targets.

This worked so well, that I helped a friend beat the mission after I finished.

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Not watching the doors is what gets the king killed. If you properly guard the doors then you don't have to worry about the king.

wsmcasey is correct. Did this mission my el/mo 2nd attempt last night, i wud stadn with the king, and call East Or West. I Put Mending On The king incase. And if i knew East was guna get attacked i wud simply shout East. Vice Verser. And If I felt, the King was being threatened by an onslaught coming his way,i wud shout KING.

The King didnt take one hit, and my party, had 2 hench (healer+ protector), 2 Warriors, 3 Ele, 1 mesmer, 1 Necro.

Its Really not a hard mission.

In medieval times there were 5 main methods of attacking a castle. You will notice that none of these methods are available to the enemies invading Thunderhead Keep.

1) Fire - This was the best way to attack the early Motte and Bailey castles since they were made entirely of wood.

2) Battering Ram - The thick stone walls of the Stone Keep castles were difficult for men to knock down. The battering ram was particularly useful since the weight of several men would be put behind it. This would make it a considerable force that could seriously weaken and possibly destroy doors or walls.

3) Ladders - These were used by those attacking a castle to climb over the walls and fight the castle inhabitants within the castle walls.

4) Catapult - A variety of catapults or siege engines were developed during the Middle Ages to fire stones, fireballs or other objects such as dead sheep, cattle, or plague victims, at the castle walls or into the castle itself. (The defenders of Thunderhead have this feature, the enemy does not).

5) Mining - A good way of attacking a castle was through mining. Attackers would dig a tunnel underground up to the castle walls, under the gatehouse if possible. They would then set a charge and make an explosion which would make the walls crumble and collapse.

6) Siege - Another good way of attacking a castle was by placing it under siege. Attackers would surround a castle with both men and catapults so that no one could enter or leave the castle. Sieges could last for months, usually until the inhabitants of the castle ran out of food and were starving.

Since this is a video game and not the real world your options to defend the Keep are rather black and white. The only option the enemy has is to go thru the gates on the east or west side of the Keep. That means that the 2 gates are choke points that are used to control the success of the mission. Guarding the king is great and all, but if your Perimeter has been breeched it's pretty much game over.

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when i was newbe i beat the mission with 4 monk ,1 ele,3 warr

You can have the best strategy, but it all boils down to communication in the end.

I completed this on my first try, as one of two healing monks. I believe our group consisted of four warriors, two healers, and two elementalists. It was pretty damn easy, actually, and we did it with guarding the doors. The other healer even went AFK in the battle, leaving me to run back and forth to heal. The mursaat didn't even see the king.

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That's a rather long post for such a... simple "strategy".

Bring 7 henchmen. Stand beside the king. Engage /dance.

I did it with an empty skillbar (Mesmer), just to prove a point. So long as you can click on targets to set the henchmen priorities straight, the mission's a cakewalk. Ditch the catapults, light those beacons, get your arse to Ember Light Camp.

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Wow. It took me 3 tries. Honestly, I don't think it's "easy." I just feel that it is easy for some people because they beat it. If you don't feel that way, great! That's good.

But this mission has its key points to taking their time, and knowing when/where to go. For the first part of the mission up until the castle part, luring can be a key plan.

I've done this mission plenty of times and never guard the king. Always 2 groups at each door and USE the friggin' cata's! Cata's are the lifesavers...

Two ranged characters (El/Ne/Me(/Ra)) at a cata each pulling them constantly and sensibly (i.e. pull when red dots are getting close to the 2 brown spots on the minimap and keep pulling the lever until they are past those spots), 2 Monks in the middle ('Life Bond'-monk any1?), 2 'tanks' (Wa(/Ra)) at a door, rest following commands when someone says "EAST" or "WEST".

Ah well, usually do this mission with my guild to help a guildie or two. Ventrilo works magic...

I think the problem with the Keep is not that the mission is hard (It isn't), but because of it's overwhelming reputation and a few stumbling blocks where many groups fail.

Once these key areas are worked out, the mission becomes a doddle.

Stumbling block 1. The last few groups in the "Clearing the town" area. The first 3 groups are all well known. Where the group may first fail is on going for the wrong group cos it's closer, and getting ambushed by the other patrolling group. Also, the last group (with the boss) is usually safer to complete if you take out the giants & rangers on the other side of the door (with your own ranged casters & damage dealers)

Stumbling block 2: The area immediaely after the door. Stone summit Anarchists & gnashers. Should be easy, right? If you have the good sense not to aggro the giants too.

Stumbling block 3: Getting Ironhammer to his podium. There are a lot of close mobs, and it's easy to aggro them accidentally. Just keep the "King Babysitter" back at all times, and don't shhot your bolts.

Stumbling block 4: The first wave - Perhaps the biggest stumbling block you'll face. This is where the team either works or falls apart. The concept is simple. EVERYONE STAYS IN THE MIDDLE. Here is where someone will trot off to fire catapaults, to go and help out the undead allies at the door, to go light beacons, or to pick up something on the battleground. The moment someone does anything like that, you know your team is in trouble.

Stumbling block 5: The quiet bit. There's probably about 3-4 minutes after the first wave where there is a lack of enemies. It's quiet. There's loads of stuff on the ground, and people are getting restless. This is a good time to go pick up all that loot, to light the beacons etc., but one person must at least stay close to the king and keep watch. As soon as a red blip appears, ping on the minimap, and everyone goes back to base. It's also usually the point where someone says "I think there's a bug. Let's go outside and find the groups" - WRONG!!!!

Stumbling block 6: The 2nd wave. Just save the boss til last! Easy!!!

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Well this is good to know. I beat thunderhead keep the first time. The next 12 times I tried with my monk and couldn't win. It's always when it;s time to defend the castle that we lose. Basically it's poor communication. When I lost it always almost always goes like this.

We get to defending the caslte
Someone Leaves for some reaosn so we usually have 7 players.
We defend the first few waves easily enough
2 waves come at both sides at the same time and verything falls apart
The monsters either rush and kill king or theyh overwhelm us.

I tried to beat thunderhead keep 4 times today and this is how it happened each time.

Is it just me... or has this mission become easier within the last few patches? No... that can't be right. /shrug

Anyone else experience this?

Thunderhead Keep needs to be much harder.

Communication is the key. Try taking a mesmer. F*ck the warrior going on this "last" and tenth run.

Want to know what makes this ridiculously easy? Tank holds torch. Tank takes ALL the aggro. gg, noob mursaat.

Just did it a day ago with henchies.. first time I did it with henchies. Just stay near king.. perhaps it was because instead of pefect armour the Ele boss came.

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I think Anet "nerfed" badly this mission with the last patches.

I did mission and bonus (the only bonus i was missing) a week ago with my r/mo and 7 henchies, with no troubles at all.

I just waited near the King. No catapults, no gate glitch, just fighted the enemies as they came close.

Throw Dirt and dust trap are really nice in the last part, to kill the mursaats casters quickly without worrying about the jades.

And most important thing, no problem with retarded players talking to the king before opening the chests around the fort.