Henchmen idiots

JAGeAkurei

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

The Dark Side of The Moon

DEUS

I had a long rant with valid points but instead.

Why are Henchman NPCs, not as smart as Monster NPCs?

I know the smart ass answer is to make you group with real people. I want to know other reasons.

Simply put it seems a henchman NPC even higher level than you, fights about 5 levels weaker than you. Or in other words, a lvl 20 elementalist sees 8 players or monsters charging him he's dead. Meanwhile I'd bet any Dev of the game that same elementalist could solo a group of 8 charging henchmen.


Oh well /vent off, just erks me when I see a game made by actual developers with worse AI than the henchman scripts I made for NWN.

Burodsx

Core Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

I do agree henchmen need some major changes, I think adding "commands" would be a nice feature.

"Wait here"
"Flee"
"Attack My Target"
"Hold Position"
"Protect <character>"
"Suicide" < oh wait, Henchmen are already good enough at this


Also Henchmen are stupid when it comes to canceling a Spell.

For example: Healer starts to cast Ressurect, the character being revived is now alive thanks to me. Healer is still continuing to revive a living player... 6 seconds later we have a canceled spell.

Xavier

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

California

Yea, I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it seems as if the mentally challenged nature of the henchmen is a way of "encourgaging" players to group with other players. The reasons many PvE players have for not grouping with other players are legion. Even if they needed to amp up the enemy A.I. to keep things balanced, that would be ok as long as I could keep my hench-warrior from running hell bent into that pack of Charr that are twice his level.

Empirism

Empirism

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

nice idea those commands

Mimu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

England, UK

Call of Destiny [call]

Believe it or not, they are not as bad as some of the human players I have had the misfortune of teaming with.

"Hey, there are 5 monsters here and 4 up ahead who have not spotted us yet..I had better tell them we are here and call all 9 over here at once!"

[dead]

"Hey..my monk and necromancer team-mates seem to be having trouble with that monster..I think I'll just walk over here and pick up this item whilst they are both dying.."

[dead]

Unfortunately both of those are true stories, therefore I believe that the henchman were built in order to simulate the true wonders of 90% of the party play.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

How about having your monk henchman run into the middle of a melee fight even though she's a spellcaster and can attack while staying far back from the fight? I've even had a monk henchman run past me(Tank) into an open spot surrounded by Charr enemies, and immediately get stomped.

Master Mercenary

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Well I personally have had pretty good luch with henchmen. Yes most of the things you say are true but at least mine always seem so come out on top. Maybe it's my name. I usually get a healer and a mage then whatever else depending on what i have to do and my mood. Like earlier I had myself (a warrior/ranger), a healer, a mage, a brawler, a fighter, a cultist, and my pet. Worked out great. Just my 2 cents.

Pevil Lihatuh

Pevil Lihatuh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Yorkshire, UK

R/Me

lol i've had mixed luck with both henchies AND real players. Just dont get a henchie with 1337 tank as his name lol. Nah seriously the commands would be great. If i take a healer I want them to concentrate on healing the party instead of killing things; thats what the players are there for.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

I'd just like a healer henchman that doesn't run to the target and stand right next to it while we are fighting it.

ApOcAlYpSe

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

The one thing i hate is when you are on the Gates of Kryta Mission near the end there is a swamp. When in the swamp you are poisoned so obviously the monk henchman has to stand right in the water until she dies 40 or 50 times.
"No thats ok Hench i didnt want to fight anymore people today, all i wanted to do was to ressurect your sorry ass."

Chev of Hardass

Chev of Hardass

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Under a rock

zP

Me/

I was somewhere near Riverside last night (this morning) and I watched a hench monk attack the crowd attacking my friend while she stood over my dead body, for at least 2 min. It was bad enough that she wasn't healing, but then when I died she did nothing even though she was not in harms way.


After my friend died, she managed to get herself stuck in a glitch and would not die, res, or kill the monsters. We had to abandon the mission and that was very frusterating.

How about some help with the glitches and rezzing aspects here?

Perishiko ReLLiK

Perishiko ReLLiK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

Divine Guardians of the Soul (Soul)

Mo/E

i only agree with a command for flee / wait here....

Other then that ive never had one problem with the way they battle, concidering they go after your target, it actually makes them better then stupid humans that don't go after the target... it's rather annoying playing with someone who wont just hit the target... and run off trying to kill the warrior's rather then the healers. Not to mention the cultist who will normaly cast his blood spell to give you mana regen when you're out of mana... i personaly havent had any bad experiences with my healer die'n because i guard the healer, just like people should do in guild vs guild... takes pressure of them. then they Can heal you.

I get pissed when they run into the poisonous swamp waters and such, but other then that i havent had many problems with them, unless they don't flee from a obvious losing battle... but that's why i agree with /flee, and /wait here.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK
i personaly havent had any bad experiences with my healer die'n because i guard the healer
It's hard to do that when they run into the heart of battle...

Rizzen Khalazar

Rizzen Khalazar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Salt Lake City

The henchmen in the early game are not very good. But I think the ones in Yaks Bend put some players to shame. I have not had one problem with those hancies, but I did have alot with the earlier ones.

LordCrono

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Ihate the healer npc's bah.

butcherboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

I've had better work coming from my pet than any henchmen I've had. At least my pet attacks what I am attacking. The henchmen pick different targets and die one by one. The last thought usually on my PC is "where'd everybody go?" when I notice most of the NPC names are all gray.

SOT

SOT

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

East Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mercenary
Well I personally have had pretty good luch with henchmen. Yes most of the things you say are true but at least mine always seem so come out on top. Maybe it's my name. I usually get a healer and a mage then whatever else depending on what i have to do and my mood. Like earlier I had myself (a warrior/ranger), a healer, a mage, a brawler, a fighter, a cultist, and my pet. Worked out great. Just my 2 cents.
Ditto. I crossed over into Old Ascalon for the first time, as a level nine mesmer/ranger, and accidentally hit "join mission" while viewing some other player. I ended up on a siege type run with 4 NPC robots, fighting 3-4 or more charr every bend I rounded. I got 2k xp in total, and nearly breahed the north wall remains before finally biting off more than me and my NPC automatons could chew, and got pasted to the sand. All in all though, the robots are much easier to rely on that people with differing opinions, and I get all the items :P

I think the NPC allies could use some serious spell variety, but other than that, they kept me goin all night last night, day 3 of my GW experience. No real gripes from me

Blight And Ruin

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Never guilded ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimu
Believe it or not, they are not as bad as some of the human players I have had the misfortune of teaming with.

"Hey, there are 5 monsters here and 4 up ahead who have not spotted us yet..I had better tell them we are here and call all 9 over here at once!"

[dead]

"Hey..my monk and necromancer team-mates seem to be having trouble with that monster..I think I'll just walk over here and pick up this item whilst they are both dying.."

[dead]

Unfortunately both of those are true stories, therefore I believe that the henchman were built in order to simulate the true wonders of 90% of the party play.

I'll take a Henchie group over an unknown group any time. I didn't group once until I was 16 or 17 so I was amazed when I got groups of real people who were dumber than the henchies during the first BWE I played.

Super Awesome War Bunny

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Have you tried setting your hemchmen down for a meeting before you go out on an adventure? Set out some mead and wine and cheese and grapefruit and while they are eating, explain to them that if things don't change, you are gonna fire them and get different henchmen.

Dreamsmith

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOT
...and I get all the items :P
Actually, you don't. If you're adventuring with three others, each person has a 1 in 4 chance of getting any drop. If the three others are henchmen, it still rolls that random assignment same as it would if it was three people, it just doesn't actually drop the item on the ground if one of the henchmen wins the roll. In effect, they get their drops, you just don't see it happening.

Nicholai Phoenix

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

I love the henchmen, they saved my life once XD

I don't remember what mission it was in but I actully was the first to die, the henchmen started fighting on there own, and by the end of the fight, only the ranger one was still alive XD
Thankfully he didn't res me, he resd the monk with his signet, then the monk resd everyone else... Least to say that mission was a breeze XP

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

I think after the Iron Mines, henchmen should automatically be infused if they aren't already, friggin they die so easily to Spectral Agony, how can ANYONE expect to use henchies to win? You'll get slaughtered.

Argent

Argent

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

desert monk henchies suck buns..... screw them to hell.

Gh0sT

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

R/Me

I dont HATE henchmens ... they are just plain stupid sometimes...

It has been a dozen of times where i saw a big charr group and (as an archer) tried to pull them, breaking them up and take them on one at the time...

But as i come near all my henchmen run in like headless chickens... even the monk thinks he is a super invincible warrior... WTF !!!

Fleeing as well, the moment i see we are about to lose (monk running low on HP, warrior dead, elementalist dead, im about to die as well) i think lets run out so we can heal up and try again, but then the darn monk just wont come... FOLLOW ASS IM UR MASTER

So those commands would be nice...

But then again you woudnt believe how many times i would have died without henchmens... as long as those monks stay behind you and away from enemies... you can go on forever...
Warrior makes nice meatshield and the elementalist has a firestorm that saved our lives dozen of time...

Just today i had it... there were 8 charr, bashing in on my warrior his HP was going down fast... and IF they would have finished him and went after me and the monk we'd be dead as can be... but luckily the elementalist used firestorm and saved our lives...

---

Humans are more fun to play with though (as long as they arent mindless noobs which most of them are actually), 2 days ago i played a great game with 3 other rangers in the ascalon arena... we won about 60 games in a row... just because our tactic was solid: stick together, focus fire, help eachother (signet of rez)... we were unbeatable untill 2 of them left and were replaced by some noobs that just ran in rambo style...

Joiry

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/Me

I've had mixed luck with henchmen. Clearly they have some sophistication in their scripts, but it does break down.

The monk seemed a lot better at knowing when to heal in the betas. I could often just go around with the monk alone in EAs and missions. Now, I routinely die but the monk has no problem keeping the other henches alive. I am often directing the battle while dead with target calling and all the henchmen live... Personally, I think they've unionized against me, given all the times I've used them as bait to run overland from one outpost to another thru high level areas.

Once after a battle was over I was suffering from major dotage and low health, spamming my signet of healing as much as I could and the monk just stood there and watched me die (all the other henchs had plenty of health left). Then, a minute later figured, maybe, just maybe, she'd rez me.

I find the archer to have become the most intelligent, often being the last alive if an extra group of mobs aggro'd. She manages to get into a safe position and then rezzes the monk and wins the fight. That's kept my progress thru a map going at least half a dozen times.

The axe warrior is pretty good too, I just want to be able to prevent him or the swordsman from rushing my targets if I'm trying to pull the mobs away from another mob group that's lurking a little to close.

The elementalist needs better AI when to use his firestorm and other AE. He does it right about 60% of the time, but often will wait to use firestorm when there is only one mob left...

Soul Monarch

Soul Monarch

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

In the between.

Heros Etc.

Me/N

I've found that once you get to Yak's Bend everything gets a lot more fun.

Having both the brawler and the fighter at once for tanking is nice. The healers just keeps them alive, while the elementalist nukes and my enchanter DoTs and Hexes.

I've also noticed that the enchanter henchman is unfairly intelligent. He's always the last guy alive in a pinch, because he can spam distortion so effectively...

Szechwan Chi Qin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
In effect, they get their drops, you just don't see it happening.
Actually, we do! One time after a battle, I saw my elementalist henchie kneel down and get back up. I was going, WTF?!?, when I realized he was picking up loot from a MoB corpse! So you do see them picking up loot, just not the loot itself.

8^B

Cael

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burodsx
I do agree henchmen need some major changes, I think adding "commands" would be a nice feature.

"Wait here"
"Flee"
"Attack My Target"
"Hold Position"
"Protect <character>"
"Suicide" < oh wait, Henchmen are already good enough at this


Also Henchmen are stupid when it comes to canceling a Spell.

For example: Healer starts to cast Ressurect, the character being revived is now alive thanks to me. Healer is still continuing to revive a living player... 6 seconds later we have a canceled spell.
As a monk, I find it impossible to hunt with the henchmen simply because I have no way of ordering them to attack. Having commands like these would be very helpful because I would be able to fullfill my primary occupation of being a healer instead of having to tank while the henchmen attempt to take down a group of mobs.
I can understand ArenaNet encouraging people to party but I rarely, if ever, see anyone who wants to go somewhere which is not part of the missions.

JAGeAkurei

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

The Dark Side of The Moon

DEUS

In some zones I've now found, henchman are simply worthless.

In frozen forest, I've never come across so many hench problems as I did today.

Now normally when I attack a target and use the keyboard setting to do so, the hench fighters go for my target every time(unless blocked in). In FF I hit buttons nothing would happen, they'd just stand there. As others have experienced the healers stand there and attack THE ENTIRE TIME. Watched as they never once cast a spell. Meanwhile my elementalist has run off the clipping plain and died who knows where.

All the while I have 13+ mobs on me, 3 of which are healers who seem damn better than henchman at healing.


Further more how is it monster npcs ALWAYS go for the weakest person, be they just rezzed, lowest level, or player controlled. Meanwhile I've watched as henchmen switch off a near dead target move to a full health target. Then the near dead fully heals, and have to fight him all over again.

Now I know in the last beta, they beefed up the lower level henchmen. Did they forget the high end? It just seems that post ascending, you might as well do everything solo or with people, as henchmen will just get you killed.

yaosio

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Henchmen always attack the target you are attacking with your weapon but not your skills. This causes a problem where a monster is almost dead so you switch targets to kill another and all your henchmen come running over leaving the other one alive.

Griffry

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I have to say, in defense of the Henchmen... I had a group of level 16 or so players attempting to do a quest, and they got themselves killed repeatedly. Despite being a fairly well balanced group.

Now, after they all left because "The group sucked" I decided that I'd just grab some henchmen and attempt to, at the very least, earn some extra xp... These level 12 henchmen actually performed better than thier player counterparts with extra levels. I was able to complete the quest with only one of my henchmen dieing at any point in it.

Oh, for those that are wondering, the quest was Eye for Profit. Though I've had similair results on many other quests.

yaosio

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Here's a story about my henchmen.

In one quest me and my henchmen were being beaten up by a bunch of level 11 Snow Ettins outside a small cave. My stupid henchmen would not bunch them together to allow me to AOE them to death(reminds me of pubbies)and we went down one by one. Me and the healer were left along with two Ettins, I was blasting away at one Ettin and killed it, then I died. That left my healer to fight against a full health Ettin, she stopped attacking and I was thinking "Don't run away" forgetting she's not a pubbie. She runs over to me and starts doing something while she's getting hit by the Ettin, "what is she doing?" I thought. She was ressing me! I got back up and killed the Ettin while the healer healed me.

Had this been a human group the healer would have run away and then left the group becuase "ur grp sux u suc".

Earlier I asked my guildmates what the difference between a pubbie and a henchmen was, somebody said "henchmen don't give you any lip."

Eoden

Eoden

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Richmond, VA.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this. I know people have said the henchmen do get loot and pick it up. But what is with the henchmen getting my money? Why, when i kill an enemy and pick up money left over, it is split with a computer controlled person? What in the world does he/she need to buy after we get back from the mission? NOTHING! He/she just gets back in line to get re-hired.

That is just plain annoying. If someone has already mentioned it im sorry for saying it again. I read every post but may have missed it.

Harlas Kije

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

NW Indiana

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eoden
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this. I know people have said the henchmen do get loot and pick it up. But what is with the henchmen getting my money? Why, when i kill an enemy and pick up money left over, it is split with a computer controlled person? What in the world does he/she need to buy after we get back from the mission? NOTHING! He/she just gets back in line to get re-hired.

That is just plain annoying. If someone has already mentioned it im sorry for saying it again. I read every post but may have missed it.

there is a fee they have to pay daily to get in that line to be hired..not unlike taxis have to at airports. Also the HOA union fees are pretty steep. I think it was mentioned in the last Henchman of Ascalon meeting notes that they are also saving up for a guild hall and cape. If you notice--they still do not have a cape.

Kidding aside--it does annoy me too--esp since I am slowly saving up to buy all my armor and what I am lacking right now is GOLD

But then again--I never have to waste time trying to find a group---having henchman saves alot of time--I can grab them and get my -60% death penalty all that much faster

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

YOu need to pay for their assistance. How hard is this to understand? If you're out by yourself, and you can handle it, then you get all the gold, and all the drops. It's a reward for having the stones and skills to venture off by yourself. Now if you have 3-7 henchies tagging along helping you out, you're going to have to split the booty a bit to compensate for your lack of skills. I just don't like it when I'm out with player characters and I see rare item drops but they're reserved for other players, especially when I just took that monster out all by myself while the others were taking care of another enemy. They should reserve items for the person who dealt the most damage to that monster, and give the mesmers/monks the occasional drop to make up for their support. Keep it even, but give the good drops to the people who did the work.

Chev of Hardass

Chev of Hardass

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Under a rock

zP

Me/

I see a lot of complaining about the sharing that goes on in Guild Wars.

Quit.


This is a team game, not a solo game. If you want to get all the loot, do it solo.

If you need assistance you share the loot.

If you are a team player and you join a guild you share the loot amonst yourselves and distribute the stuff to who needs it. I am personally keeping my guild supplied with Ranger items, but I play Necro. Others are keeping me supplied with necro items. We share.


Now flame if you want, but you know I'm right.

Zantar45

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Suggestions if I may

The Henchmen should have somewhat higher defense/armor or more life. The attack power seem's fine, just need some tweaking to ensure that they survive battle's with more then 3 enemies.

or

Maybe the henchmen could level up a few times in battle? Not to any extreme's(3-4 max), just so that you can improve your team's odd's. They do get some experience points and money afterall. Of course when you enter town's/outpost's, the levels would go away or a timer could pop up and when it run's out, the levels are reset.

Tanaric

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Today a guildie and I were walking from Lion's Arch to the Wilds. We get about a screen away from the Wilds zone, and all of us die except our healer henchmen. She gets in a spot where she's fighting a Mesmer named mob, standing on my buddy's corpse. She heals herself over and over again, and occasionally tries to cast Restore Life, which the Mesmer interrupts with Cry of Frustration every single time. In short, we were trapped in an infinite loop, and, after about 20 minutes of waiting, ended up having to drop out of the zone and rewalk from the Temple of Ages.

That said, despite everything that's bizarre or incomplete about henchmen, there needs to be a way to either kill one of them or force a party respawn.

Two other bugs I notice all the time (I group with henchmen constantly):
1. Henchmen, after a party respawn, will often run off into space or deep underground, doing who-knows-what. This caused me to have to reload once too: my healer henchmen was stuck deep underground, couldn't die, and so my party couldn't respawn.

2. My party will often respawn before all of us are dead. While this in some occasions could be useful, like the infinite loop described above, it is currently a bug, and is uncontrollable and unreliable.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

If the party respawns before all are dead, it's because the remaining characters/players don't have an available resurrection ability. Healer NPC's who get stuck/lost/left alive healing themselves are what ruin NPC play for everyone. I actually had a battle once in the Breach with my new character, the healer NPC got stuck behind the signpost at the bottom of the stairs. Honestly. We didn't notice it, so we went on our merry way, and subsequently got whuuped by the waiting Charr because we had no healer. And we had to reload it because she wouldn't move for anything.

Kriegar

Cowbell Boy

Join Date: Apr 2005

Great Lakes, IL

Treacherous Empire

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApOcAlYpSe
The one thing i hate is when you are on the Gates of Kryta Mission near the end there is a swamp. When in the swamp you are poisoned so obviously the monk henchman has to stand right in the water until she dies 40 or 50 times.
"No thats ok Hench i didnt want to fight anymore people today, all i wanted to do was to ressurect your sorry ass."
That part frustrated the hell out of me. What part of get the hell out of the poison swamp is tough to figure out?