Help with Ranger Shutdown strategy

Well this post might be better served in the build section but I figured I'd post here because it is strategy related.

I play a lot of team arena (cmon 6v6 and tournament style arena!) and it would seem the newest thing floating around teams are these punishing/savage/distracting shot rangers. Most of the time I see them spam all three. For instance last night me and some friends win 6 before we run into a 3 ranger team. All three rangers focused on our monk with kindle arrows and punish/distract/savage, there wasn't much he could do besides die.

I've decided that these rangers pose the largest threat to my teams and have set about finding one single character that can stop all this interrupting. (migraine/interrupt or diversion mesmers come in a marginally close second in annoyance value)

SO join with me in devising a character that can put an end to these rangers interrupts.

So far I've thought that blinding would be good but i think the blinding spells have too slow a recharge and conditions are too easily removed. my other thought would have been to put shield of deflection on our monk during times when rangers are actively pounding him, what i found out was kindle arrows hit anyway no matter whether the arrow hits or not.

One big question I have is do the distracting shot and savage and punishing have to hit to interrupt? or are they like the disrupting slash warrior skill that just says swing at target to intrrupt. If they dont have to hit to interrupt then we are doomed, if they do have to hit then there is so room to work with.

Ideas please!

blind them and interrupt their prep, thats it i guess

They have to hit to interupt. Spamming the three skills one after the other is kinda noobish. I guess they don't feel like attempting to interupt specific skills that are more harmful than others...they'd rather just spam the interupts and hope they catch something.



Mesmer:
a Price of Failure is a nice way to stop them or Mantra of Resolve. You'll be losing energy every time Mantra of Resolve stops an interupt but atleast your caster will be able to cast. Clumsiness might be a better option. Maxed out you can give 7 seconds of Clumsiness which will interupt the next attack made by the ranger and deal up to 76 dmg. Mantra of Concentration is another skill that might be worth it. It's a stance with a long period that blocks the next time you would be interupted.

Elementalist:

Glyph of Concentration keeps your next spell from being interupt and it ignores dazed so it would be a viable option.

Necromancer:

You could use Spinal Shivers and throw a warrior with an Icy sword/hammer/axe on him...though this could cost you too much energy in the long run.

I'd say a mesmer(go figure) is your best bet

Yes, mesmer mantras are the way to go ^-^

Spirit Shackle would stop them. Shadow of fear would also slow them down. And don't forget to kill the Favourable Wind spirit.

Spirit shackles own rangers. I should know. I am a ranger.

Well I'm trying to protect our monk and our e-mo, our mo is a mo/n so he doesnt ahve any of the mantras and obviously neither does the e-mo, so I'm basically screwed there.

I wanted to devise a character that would shut them down. As in either stop them from being able to hit with attacks or energy denial or whatever, or keeping our monk/e-mo from getting hit by their arrows.

If I put both spirit and price of failure on him what is his actual cance to miss?

Keep posting! rangers are pissing me off.

Nailz - you're missing the point. The idea behind spamming the multiple interrupt shots is less to interrupt anything (although if you do, that can add some nice bonus damage) and more to deliver a whole bunch of damage in a very short period, since the interrupt shots fire basically instantly. There's no need to worry about interruption if the spellcaster's already dead...

Gabriel - as a ranger player, it warms my heart to know rangers are pissing you off No idea if the miss chances on price/spirit of failure stack or not, but Spirit Shackles are a nice drain on rangers, as suggested previously. Also consider Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear, maybe Spiteful Spirit; also the usual things like Aegis, Guardian, etc. Failing all else, settle for Essence Bond and Unyielding Aura/Vengeance...

Wow. I know what you mean. In the last 20 odd games, around 10 odd had at least one of those annoying rangers in there. As a monk (even prot...) they were a big pain in the butt. Dodging the arrows will only get you so far. Those arrows are likely not to miss, and that ranger will want to get as close as possible to you.

Spirit of failure sounds like a good thing to bring along.

Have these rangers made their way into Tombs yet?

yes they have seeing as you can do about 120 dmg per ranger within 2 sec while interrupting the target from doing anything.

Incendiary Arrows + Precision Shot makes an unevadable ublockable interrupt. At that point, you're screwed unless you blind them. undoubtedly the best way to take care of those Rangers is to just kill him/her. I myself recently discovered the joys of using this build in Competitive Arenas, and it seems ridiculously effective against casters. I must say, it's the most fun I've had playing a ranger ever.

yes exactly the whole point is that three rangers all hitting you with those three does very quick dmg with an inability to self-heal b/c of it all being interrupt.

I just now realized swirling aura only works on yourself so thats out of the question. Shields up has a really low chance to block, mabye combined with something else it would do better. Guardian is easy to interrupt and also has a low cahnce to block. aegis same as guardian.

Anet can i get a ward against projectiles pls????

I'd say the best way of avoiding them is guardian + aegis. You might also consider taking shield of deflection, especially in 4v4 where switching targets isn't as viable. Combine those with some kiting and strafing, and you should be able to survive.

Blinding them is no good, interrupting them is very unreliable, and mantra of resolve will run your monk out of energy in no time with 3 rangers spamming interrupts. You could try distortion, but it too will be too taxing on the energy.

I'm not really missing the point...I see why they are doing it..I just think it's innefective anywhere but random arena. All casters have a decent way to regen health....it seems quite fruitless. You know it's coming everytime you see a ranger so you throw up a Spirit Shackle...or Mantra...or an Empathy...or a reversal or prot bond...It feels very much like an IWAY build, A way to deliver damage without any thought. I rarely see it work to any decent effect in Tombs or Team Arena. Though I do see it own casters in Random Arena.

The perfect answer has already been given, yet no one listens. Cool.

I agree. Slow their attack speed, take away their energy, both sounds strategies...

Casting Shield of Judgment {E} on the target of their focus fire would also be beneficial. Getting knocked down every time they hit would slow them down a whole bunch, allowing you to heal up the target and hit 'em while they're down.

lol pacifism?

aside from that, spirit shackles, shadow of fear and faintheartedness is what your looking for. Add in soothing images to the build and your good to go on warriors too.

Haha, that was my team I believe you are talking about, we won about 50 TA matches last night with 3 rangers. You got our build close to right, except each of our rangers has a different secondary profession and bring different... well... since we are still using it I'll keep it under wraps.

blurred vison spirit of faliure faintheartedness shadow of fear empathy

didn't see the thread about it in Tombs, eh?

if you know the maps well enough, just find a convienient wall.... seriously.... guardian or shield of deflection help, as does mantra of resolve. Ex: if you have a inspiriation mesmer on your team in the ice map, when you see the rangers you back into your own spawn area behind the walled gates, then hit the rangers with arcane echoed spirit shackles + things like energy tap/ether feast/ether lord (more to prevent the rangers from not attacking to get energy for a prep). If hiding isn't an option, a insp mesmer with mantra of resolve can arcane echo spirit shackles, then use res sigs to counter the spike before the rangers run out of energy.

empathy does NOT shut down ranger damage.... it simply makes their monk work harder. IMO its just crappy degen that doesn't cap out like other degen, and that can be easily turned off... and where is the mention of spirit shackles? SPPPPPIIIRRIIITTT SSSHHHAACCKKLLEESSSS. Also leech signet can help out by interrupting preparations, cry of frustration is also good if you run domination, not to mention how badly fragility/incendiary rangers telecast their incendiary.

If you can find the right map locations to hide behind walls/rocks etc, the rangers have to spend enough time moving around that you can actually use your hate effectively.

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Dzan it may have been you that I played against. I know exactly what you guys were doing, one was a r/n and i forget the others but i know that the r/n was using rend enchantments, might have even been a r/mo in there for some monk support.

And yes I put spirit shackles on all of you. But you were all smart and you didnt attack at all once it was on you and instead you all got into position rended my enchants and then used everything you had on me all at the same time. It was very effective b/c none of you randomly attacked once shackles was up and saved all your energy for the big interrupt spike dmg. You were probably totally drained after that but it didnt matter because you had already killed me.

Take note of that people, spirit shackles is not the do all end all to rangers, a smart team will not attack and wait till everyone is in perfect position to spike the hell outta the monk. They may be drained after that spike but it doesnt much matter considering they got 3 pips of regen and expertise.

Blurred vision is about the best thing I have used so far. Combined with spirit of failure its about equivalent to a shield of deflection. But alas not good enough do to the long recharge.

I thought blinding flash, sig of midnight could be effective, but its just so damn easy to remove blinding. Maybe I'll see if our e-mo can bring swirling aura - I just wish it didnt have such a noob recharge.

When I see a nasty ranger i get axe and chop him until he stops movin ;PPP
I guess this is the best way.

Came across one of these last night in Tombs.

Basically, they'd shoot a couple of arrows here and there, looked like they were targetting different people just to see what kind of spells were being cast. Then they basically all stopped and got in range of one of our monks. Within 1.5 seconds that monk was dead. Rinse and repeated every 10 seconds (the time for distracting shot to recharge?). Any offense against them was blocked.

They were 5 rangers and 3 monks from what I could tell. It seems as though all it takes to perform this group is mobility (of which there are plenty of buffs in the ranger line) and coordination, neither of which is terribly hard to do. FOTM coming up, if it isn't already there by the time I get home from work.

I guess if it does end up being a popular setup, everyone will know exactly what spots to camp at to avoid arrow fire, as this seems like one of the best counters so far. Reduce their ability to mobilize by forcing them into as small an area as possible in order for them to be able to get a clean line-of-fire.

Someone pliiiis come up with a better counter :P


(Edit: I suppose IWAY kills these guys pretty fast?)

After reading this yesterday I tested a bit in comp arena (I know I know...) with an E/Me build.

I'm not sure how one character could stop 3 interrupt rangers at once. Spirit shackles will not do it alone exactly for the stated reason - expertise and regen means the interrupts still go off. Interrupting preparations is difficult because typically those are done just out of range.

What I found most effective against rangers generally is echo + clumsiness coupled with solid degen. It's mostly a mind game, it throws off timing and interrupts a spike. The ranger has a choice of waiting out the clumsiness or attacking, and most of the time you hit clumsiness in the middle of their spike chain so you get a high dmg attack. With echo you get 4 clumsiness in 20 secs. so the ranger (or 2 if you have good reflexes) loses the ability to throw constant interrupts. It also makes them want to kill you rather than your monk. I also threw in gale to break their chains and give me time to get a clumsiness off if I was focused. Sometimes it worked sometimes not. Also - presuming the rest of your team is harrassing their monk, the ranger will have to rely on self healing and 4x clumsiness + degen is usually enough to get them thinking about thier own mortality. It also works fairly well against warriors.

Against an all caster team you won't be nearly as effective with this build, although you can often still get them because of habitual wanding.

Other thoughts - spirit shackles combined with panic and arcane echo ether lord should shut down 2 rangers after the initial spike - untested.

However, it should work all right in theory.

Assume:

Energy pool = 52 (Insightful staff and enchanter's)

Spirit Shackles - 10
Panic - 25
Arcane echo - 15
Ether lord - 5
Ether tap - 5

Casting chain - Shackles -> Panic -> Arcane -> Ether Lord -> Ether Lord -> Ether tap -> Shackles

Your energy (including regen) will look something like, 52 -> 42 -> 18 -> 4 -> 0 -> 5 -> 0 -> 5 -> 20 -> 12.

With 2 ether lords you get 10 pips of e regen for roughly 6 seconds and 7 pips for another 6 seconds.

I have tested similar builds, just not with shackles and targeting rangers.

Anyway, hope this spurs you to some working ideas. If you get a shutdown that works consistently (and better) please feel free to let me know, these rangers are all over comp arena.

Good stuff sigil thank you for the informative post.

Personally so far Ive had the most success with an E/Me build also.

SKills are as follows:

Blurred Vision
Spirit of Failure
Distortion
Energ tap
Ether Feast
Spirit shackles
Signet of Midnight
Res Sig

I basically start out by putting spirit of failure on the ranger and then immediately hit them with blurred vision and spirit shackles. If there is only one ranger I follow this with an energy tap and ether feast, this is total shutdown for one ranger. If there is more than one, blurred vision is an AoE hex so that will sometimes get more than one ranger. By this time Spirit of failure is recharged so that goes on the other ranger or warrior.

I keep blurred vision up constantly since at 15 water magic it only has a 1 second downtime (the casting speed). Spirit of failure is also a must to have up since it is your energy regen and also adds 25% chance to miss.

Signet of midnight is mainly for warriors that run in but it of course works on anyone. This is definitely the skill that could be replaced, ether feast could also be replaced, but I do love being able to drain 5 energy from someone for a 125 point heal.

Scratch what I wrote...I just found out the effects from Preps like Incendiary can't be evaded, thus nullifying Aegis, or Guardian...Have to think about this some more.

Want to know what really slows this build down?

Shielding Hands and Healing Seed. The ranger build thrives on hitting you with 3 ~25 point attacks per shot. Reduce each of those 3 attacks by 75-100% and the DPS goes way, way down. If you can't beat the ranger teams when their dps is reduces by 75% you don't deserve to win anyway.

The only times we lost was when we encountered teams with two monks who used those spells properly.

would putting up ageis and ward against melee do anything or am i just way off

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OK stupid question if they are not useing melee weapons then what type of weapon are they useing is bow its on class of weapon it does sound like a noob question i just want to know

bow = ranged weapon

melee = in your face weapon

yeah preps still hit no matter what. Dzan the whole problem that we had aginst the three rangers (which may have been you) was the massive interrupt. The dps is ok I can deal with that but when you interrupt my mass heal im screwed, that is the real bread and butter of the three ranger build.

Blurred vision and spirit of failure are so far my best chances to save my monk. three rangers, one with rend enchants is a nasty thing.

And dzan i used to play with two monk teams in arenas but I found that they would get countered by the stupidest builds and we would lose to some shitty team that cant beat anyone else but had exactly the right skills to beat us. Nothing more disturbing than that.

Anet Im still calling for a ward against projectiles at least give us a chance to stop punish/savage/distract

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Hmm. Have you tried bringing energy drain and diversion? They may help to reduce the spike, but I have not been on the receiving end of 3 interrupt rangers so I wouldn't know...

I did try using the punishing/savage/distracting ranger and I noticed that an axe warrior can cut me down like butter, so maybe bring one of this would help too...

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