PvP and those without Vent/TS

I've been playing along now for a bit, almost have my RP char ascended (yay) and I've got a good bit of stuff unlocked for my PvP char and some runes and whatnot going on. All fun stuff.

I feel though, that without Ventrillo or Teamspeak, I really can't look forward to getting on a good Tombs team or GvG team anytime ever. My problem is that I play on dial-up, yes, it still exists. I cannot get DSL, Cable, etc. Its just not available in my area yet... hopefully (SBC says) in a few months or so.

I can play fine though. Thankfully, the servers for Guild Wars are incredible (don't agree with me? go try to play WoW on dial-up... yeah). I never have any latency problems, don't get disconnected, and I keep up with PvP fights just fine. Really solid servers. But, I can't even dream about doin Vent or TS while playing GW, it just doesn't happen.

Are there any other options available for me? I really love the PvP of this game, thats what the focus of the game is anyhow later on, more or less. Are there guilds that take non-vent/ts people along and do team arenas/GvG and have success?

Guess I'm just frustrated.

the truth is that it is quite possible to make a HoH-winning team and not have the players use voice software. i've seen it done many times by many different players

of course the "trend" goes the opposite way. most players attach a need of voice software with the idea that voice software will guarantee them a good degree of success

in reality, whether they are successful or not will have very little to do with whether they use voice software or not

granted, using voice software is of course an advantage. and super elite Guilds will use it for ultra advanced tactics like calling out who to interrupt and things like that. for purposes like this, nothing compares to voice software. but a lot of that is a moot point because a team of very good players can beat most other teams without ever requiring tactics as advanced as that (some exceptions apply, of course)

if you get to rank 6, then it's pretty easy to find groups that get to the HoH every time they enter Tombs, and don't use any voice software at all

of course since there is a "stigma" against letting people who don't use TS or Vent into parties, getting there may be much more difficult than if you did have it. not much you can do about that, other than try to get to know some really good players who will take you under their wing

I frown upon TS and Vent, if voicechat was necessary it would've been implemented into the game. I have them just for certain occasions but I'll never use them as religously as some do.

Its going to be hard, you will probably have to find a guild that understands that you cant use ts or vent. In a pug, you will just get kicked out.

It is very possible to win without voice chat (See:IWAY build) it is just handy to have. Pretty much good to have because then someone can call for an enchant removal, anti blocking, interrupt, etc. etc. etc.

Team Arenas usually are fine without TS/Vent, HoH is a different story.

Most guilds will do TAs without voice software.

Buddy, do you know of any RPG like this where voice communication is implemented? It wasn't implemented because it'd be HARD to implement me thinks, I mean party, out of party, who can hear you, all that crap. It'd just get too odd, and also it'd just be more load on their servers 'eh? They don't get payed monthly to keep this shit up. If people want to use voice communication, they'll use it. Do I think it enhances gameplay? Yeah, by all means. But lets face it, there's really only one set of games that implements voice communication WELL and those are the Valve games.

Sure it's not necessary, but it sure makes things a lot more fun, IMO.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. If people understand, that's fine. Sure, havint ts or vent is nice for better organization, but you can always plan ahead, or can use common sense.
Or just keep an eye on all the things going around you so you can be more flexible to your teammates.

Well thats good news, thanks folks.

I guess I just need to bum around Tombs more often and chat. So many guilds out there its really hard to find one that is successful and willing to accept new people.

I'm really a fairly good player, but I feel ... out of place or something. I'm not used to being a noob at an MMORPG lol. I guess I just need to put in more time searching and socializing.

I get a lot of flak for only being on dial up though. Its not good, but its not as bad as most people would think. I've done tons of PvP just fine with it for years, DAoC, WoW PvP stuff, and it works fine most of the time. I just can't do the voicechat stuff, which for DAoC and WoW is fine, we rarely use voicechat software in WoW for PvP, sometimes it helps, but usually you get with a group of people that know their stuff and have played together a bit and you discuss strategy before you go, and you're fine.

GW has a really nice system of being able to quickly call targets, without voicechat stuff, so I don't really see the problem.

If anybody is looking for an experienced PvP'er... Progald the Stout/Wizards and Demons/Progald Demonic in game, I'd be glad to help out.

Yeah I agree with most people here. Good playskill and common sense and experience are probably more valuable that anything. Connection speed and voice communication are probably less important, but when I go to TA's and see "Blah blah group looking for Ele/Me/War/whatever, TS REQUIRED" it really makes it hard to break in. I almost had a decent spiker PUG the other day, then we were about to go in and then they found out I didn't have TS and booted me.... its a shame.

I don't go in without TS/Vent and on dial-up and expect to play an interrupting Mes or any kind of primary healing Monk, because you really need the better connection to do that stuff. An Elementalist that is firing some nukes and doing some general disruption or a fat Warrior tank hacking with an axe, I don't really see what I can't do.

the following reasons are why playing gw without voicechat is harder

threat protection : a monk seeing 2 warriors charging towards him needs to call out instantly for a healing seed or some protective enchantment. it is not immediately obvious to everyone on the team that someone is about to come under pressure, and your healing seed or whatver spell sometimes has a 2 second cast time, which is TOO SLOW by the time you see someone drop to 50% hp.... you have to cast it before they start taking damage, which unless you're psychic or have ts isn't going to happen.

aegis cycling : aegis is a teamwide protection spell that some setups need to cycle. you can arrange players to use the skill in order A B C but there are times when the cycle goes out of whack - morale boosts recharge all skills, a player might die, a player might run out of mana - only way to swap around aegis cast orders in the cycle is voicechat and avoid the dreaded double aegis cast.

hex removal : it's important for hexed players to call out number of hexes and which ones are buried. multiple hexes on a player are better solved with spells such as convert hexes rather than wasting multiple hex removal spells on him. certain hexes like diversion or frozen burst are not worth wasting removal on, or empathy on a caster for example. you could use ctrl click to display but it wastes precious time : and time is precious indeed when dealing with killer hexes such as fragility and lingering curse and rigot mortis.

target kill : it's one thing to call a target, but the "killer" hex on the target needs to be called -> it's sometimes not practically possible to know whether you necro's lingering curse has successfully gone off or not, or it was interrupted.

many more examples : i can't imagine playing in a team without ts. sure you can get so far without ts, but it's just less efficient. also having people think having ts will show to some extent that you're a dedicated player, and therefore the mistaken assumption that you are more skilled and realise the importance of ts or vent.

These are all valid points, I agree. But, I don't try to play a class/build that requires me to have TS. All classes and builds would probably benefit from being able to communicate faster yes, but I don't see what is holding my warrior build down or other such classes/builds? I already said I don't go out there with my monk and expect to do great without TS, or my interruption mesmer and try to pick off the important spells without any guidance.

I think TS/Vent are great, and I have used the before (when I have a chance to stay at my buddy's apartment and use his cable) but I think I should be able to do just fine without it, its just tough to find people willing to give you a shot, know what I mean?

Using TS/Vent has nothing to do with player skill, it has to do with communication. Most people can't type fast enough to say "I'm smiting off you, Bob!", or "Bubbles, smite off me, I'm number 4 on the list".

Yes, you can still play without TS and Vent and I've been in good groups that don't use them; however, you will not be playing with more experienced players and you will not learn good builds that fast becuase most of the skilled people are using those voice programs.

There's nothing you can do about joining groups that require to listen in on TS, only waiting untill the Cable or Satalite companies move into our area. I had the same problem a few years ago.

Yeah, or Tom Clancey games, or Battlefield 2, or those Nazy Seals games for the PS2 I can't remember if Tom Clancey did those, aswell, or not, or ever other Xbox game . But then again, CounterStrike is the only game besides Guild Wars to most people

Counterstrike's Voicechat system works really good I think. Its really nice and fairly bug free, and if people get annoying, just mute them. Just have to have broadband... ugh...

Seriously, broadband availability has been a huge point of frustration for me. I don't really live out in the middle of nowhere, there's a fairly good sized city 15 minutes away from me, with smallish stuff in between. I only live about 3 miles from a major highway, so there are definitely phone lines along there. I don't exactly live in the metropolis or anything, but there are lots of neighborhoods and houses around me. Yet, there is no broadband out here. They ran cable between the town 15 min to my east to the city 30 min to my west, and didn't bother to drop any stations remotely near me...

Yet, game companies seem to think EVERYONE has broadband. I did a little general research the other day, and something like 68% of internet users (not just gamers, all internet users) use Dial up. I'm sure the %'s for online gamers is very different, but still, there are gamers like me all over the place. It really irks me that they make games (World of Warcraft, Counterstrike, etc. etc.) that really require a player to have broadband. GW is plenty playable on dial-up, like I said, I really don't have connection or latency issues. I just can't do that AND run voicechat software. Its bumming me out...

There isn't a profession that doesn't get value out of TS/Vent.

If you're setting up a tombs team, do you want to have a better chance with better communication, or a worse chance without it?

I'm sorry you can't use it yet, but you'd be hard pressed to find a situation/prof in pvp where it couldn't help you.

I tried voice communication in tombs with PUGs for quite some time now and gave up because i simply couldn't endure it any longer.
Hey i don't mind the obsession about Teamspeak but... sorry... i hate those nerds on Teamspeak and you're bound to have them. When their shrieky nightmare voices go off like "OOOOH EM GEE LOOOOOOL! Buncha noobs roffel!" i'm about to vomit. Seriously. I can't stand those. Sad thing is, those freaks are not rare... they are very common and amongst every group you're bound to have one of those nightmare creatures sitting in their dark room only waiting to give your ears some bleeding. Ugh.

In ideal conditions, voice chat is great.

In less than ideal conditions... it can be like Kampfkeks' post.

It's not as simple as having voice chat as much as being able to use voice chat meaningfully. For complicated tasks with people who have absolutely no group synergy, yes, voice chat may very well be vital to enjoy the slightest bit of success. But, that's just compensating for a glaring weakness, voice chat isn't going to make a lousy group work at 100% efficiency. For groups of people who play with each other regurally and actually have a team build they're comfortable with instead of a hodge-podge slapped together Pick up Group, voice chat merely makes the process go much more smoothly.

If anything, I would really like it if Anet would add modifiable text macros and more automated keybinds than just target/health/enchantment/etc calling.

Sure, people can be immature jerks with it... But then, what are you doing playing with jerks?

Ooooh. A macro system like WoW has would be awesome. And the scripting. I do all sorts of complicated timed encounters and such in WoW and just with macros and such you can have things like boss skills/spells sent to you then in turn toss that out to the entire raid easily. A few of the 40 people use voicechat, but its more for entertainment and such than out of necessity. With some decent macros and the like, voicechat wouldn't be nearly so needed as it seems to be.

But this isn't WoW, and WoW isn't nearly perfect by any stretch. I'm actually really surprised and generally pleased with Guild Wars and what Arena Net has made with the game. Considering they don't have nearly the income of Blizzard or Sony, they have made a really great game. I really wouldn't mind paying a monthly subscription for it, but thats really a great part of what the game is, free =)

I don't expect ANet to come out with a macro system or a game-based voicechat, its just a frustration I'm going to have to deal with until broadband is available I guess. I just hope the stigma of "you must have TS or you are teh loss" and whatnot fades out a little, because it really is more about team skill/experience than it is about voicechat.

If you read my post earlier I said somewhere that every class/build would be more efficient/better off with a voice communication software, I agree with you. Its just that having that shouldn't be the all-determining factor when deciding to dump me out of the Tombs groups =(

I really haven't even been able to fight in and TA or Tombs groups very much because not many people give me a shot at it. Will just take a bit of time I suppose.

Edit: Is it just me or is my quote not working? =(

You could always just be really arrogant and say "what, you guys actually need that to win?". Although I'm not sure how many groups wouldn't kick you out after a statement like that.

You can get by without it for sure, but I think a lot of your success would depend on your interface. If you're playing as a monk, it could just be me, but I like to have everything in one spot on the screen. The message log, my skills, what hexes/condtions etc.. are on me, and the party screen. You can't be searching around your screen looking back and forth "Okay that guy has a empathy on him I need to remove that, now where is he on the list."

Voicechat just makes me feel like I'm cheating. Does it really make the victory enjoyable when you had such a steep advantage against a bunch of unsuspecting players? In PvP, it can help, and players are willing to take any advantage they can get.

finding a good group that doesnt require ts/vent is like...

trying to join a smite group as a smiter monk, 9/10 you will get booted, they say your a noob, or give some explanation as to why you CANT do it, but in reality there are very good monk smiters, when you find that 1 be happy that you got it.

Yeah I think I'm just gonna have to be extra charming or something =)

So if anybody bumps into Progald Demonic along the way, gimme a shot, I'm really not bad !

BTW, thanks everyone for the insight on this thread, at least kept me awake during this long... long third shift of work, ugh.

im kinda in the same boat, i dont have a mic and my computer cant support one....i do have the program downloaded though, so i can listen...haha like that helps

This statement strikes me really odd because there are many other games that support macros and keybinds besides WoW. While I do like Guild Wars' Ctrl click system, I can't help but wish there was more like it, not to mention customizable calls for the routine things.

although i agree you can win without voice chat, i do not agree that IWAY can hold the HoH

sure you can win some matches, but HoH? rarely if ever is that going to happen

the reason they do not want you in that group is that their build does not call for a "smiter monk" it calls for an E/MO smiter. there is a huge difference not only in the spells yo must use but in energy management and skill selection

I'm on dial-up as well, but I have minimal problems using the Ventrilo server for my guild. It does lag and break up a bit when there are like 3+ guys talking at once all trying to get their word in, but other than that it works fine. A properly configured Ventrilo or TS server takes up very little bandwidth, even for a 56k modem. However that being said, there are idiots out there who set their servers to have the highest quality voice transmitting, meaning a huge hike in bandwidth usage with a tiny gain in voice clarity. Servers with that kind of configuration will not work (at least they don't on my modem), you'll get disconnected from the server (ping timeout), people will talk in spurts, and they won't be able to understand you either. I've been in a few Tomb groups that had that, and I just left. No point in communicating if you can't communicate, right?

Hmm so you can do Vent with Dial up eh? All I've ever tried was TS, and that wasn't so hot, but maybe it was the configuration, I'll give it a shot tonight...

ping each player starting with the leader of the party. The application will then force a port open on the member with the lowest pings computer and use it to transfer voice data. Problem solved...ingame voice support without server load.

Your close quote command is not correct. It should be "[/quote]" without quotes.