Like Spirit spam it takes a good team to counter IWAY or Smite and a great team to beat top IWAY or smite teams. These builds are here to stay until a nerf.
Unlike air Spike where you could counter with prot spirit, IWAY and smite can not be countered so easier, you must take several skills and use coordination. This is not present in 80% of pugs so we will still see IWAY and smite in 1 years time unless a stronger fotm comes along.
Yummy
IWAY and Smite Will never die
Mr T Bone
KuTeBaka
um.....
IWAY counter
-Ward of melee
-Greater conflag
-Ward against foes
-Aoes
-Go for necro
-Don't kill pets
-Aegis
-Guardian
Smite counters
-enchant removal
-Ward against foes
-well of the profane
-Ward against elements
IWAY counter
-Ward of melee
-Greater conflag
-Ward against foes
-Aoes
-Go for necro
-Don't kill pets
-Aegis
-Guardian
Smite counters
-enchant removal
-Ward against foes
-well of the profane
-Ward against elements
One and Two
just cus there's counters wont mean they will die.
look, air spikes are still being used.
its just cus spike, smite and iway are so damn easy to use that they are popular.
look, air spikes are still being used.
its just cus spike, smite and iway are so damn easy to use that they are popular.
Theus
IWAY does not need a nerf.
It sucks enough as it is..
The only part of Smite that needs a nerf is Ether Renewel.
It sucks enough as it is..
The only part of Smite that needs a nerf is Ether Renewel.
twicky_kid
FoC and desecrate necros kills them in about 30 sec. watch 4-5 of them drop with one spike.
iway is flawed in the same manner of why healing ball doesn't work AoE dmg eats you alive. one meteor shower and its gg.
iway is flawed in the same manner of why healing ball doesn't work AoE dmg eats you alive. one meteor shower and its gg.
Ollj
The "it has easy counters" argument is as worthles as the "it is hard to counter" argument.
Spirit spam had to die!
And [RUS] still runs great Air spikes wirh a lot of EMe and great timing, they drain the prot monk, get inspired by your enchantments and insta kill one after another, also hard to counter.
Those builds builds are NOT popular because they are uber good, they aint, they are popular because they are so simple, 10 year old kids can play them, and thats exactly whats happening.
Those builds will never die, but their amount of different builds will increase.
Spirit spam had to die!
And [RUS] still runs great Air spikes wirh a lot of EMe and great timing, they drain the prot monk, get inspired by your enchantments and insta kill one after another, also hard to counter.
Those builds builds are NOT popular because they are uber good, they aint, they are popular because they are so simple, 10 year old kids can play them, and thats exactly whats happening.
Those builds will never die, but their amount of different builds will increase.
BigTru
I guess I'll be the first to say it... but if you are using AoE against IWAY... you are just... dumb. Hell... I shouldn't even have to explain why, so I won't. GG.
Schorny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr T Bone
Like Spirit spam it takes a good team to counter IWAY or Smite and a great team to beat top IWAY or smite teams. These builds are here to stay until a nerf.
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So few rends and only occasionally diversion on me, when I smite...
Quote:
| Unlike air Spike where you could counter with prot spirit, IWAY and smite can not be countered so easier, you must take several skills and use coordination. |
But it is amazingly how well air spike work atm. I really thought you can throw in the garbage, but even with no chain lightning you can still kill pretty good (even with decent groups).
And it is so funny when you see them casting prot spirit all over the place and wasting energy
Quote:
| This is not present in 80% of pugs so we will still see IWAY and smite in 1 years time unless a stronger fotm comes along. |
GreatLich
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr T Bone
Unlike air Spike where you could counter with prot spirit, IWAY and smite can not be countered so easier, you must take several skills and use coordination. This is not present in 80% of pugs so we will still see IWAY and smite in 1 years time unless a stronger fotm comes along.
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Not present in 80% of PUG's, maybe; ofcourse these will never win Halls consistently.
Seeing IWAY and Smite in a year from now, how is this a bad thing? Diversity in the metagame is a good thing! It's the misconception among (i'm sorry...) n00bs that one must run FOTM to be competitive in HOH. I'm told by friends, who do Tombs more than me, that those "famous" guilds you see winning once or more almost every night are most certainly not running the Smite and IWAY builds you see floating around on Fora such as this.
In essence (IMHO) it matters very little what the FOTM in fact is, the good guilds/players out there will take those builds, improve upon them or design a good counter and dominate with them. The n00bs never get to that point and continue to run the "cookie cutter" FOTM until they wise up to the counter-build (which in turn becomes the next FOTM). And the cycle continues...
YMMV
cookiehoarder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
FoC and desecrate necros kills them in about 30 sec. watch 4-5 of them drop with one spike.
iway is flawed in the same manner of why healing ball doesn't work AoE dmg eats you alive. one meteor shower and its gg. |
I hope IWAY never dies. Free fame and faction for me
Arathorn5000
I like the fact that we'll still see these same builds in the future. Because as time goes on, tombs will slowly become more diverse as people still flock to FotM, but many people stay behind and keep working on and updating the old builds.
Navaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr T Bone
These builds are here to stay until a nerf.
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it would be very, very sad if IWAY was ever nerfed seeing how very easy IWAY is for any competent team to beat
there will always be incompetent teams in Tombs, and there will always be lots of players who use the fastest and most popular builds to farm off those incompetent teams. so yes IWAY is here to stay unless it's gets nerfed, which would be ridiculous if it did
Axle_Fieshe
i've been in loads of smite groups and iway builds, and they aren't that good. a simple well of profane made our whole team useless. I reckon it just encourages people to think of new builds, and to accept Necros/Mesmers.
before IWAY it was fair hard for necros to get into a group, and now loads of ppl want em.
before IWAY it was fair hard for necros to get into a group, and now loads of ppl want em.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cookiehoarder
There is a 3 second space between knockdowns. How is that gg?
I hope IWAY never dies. Free fame and faction for me |
FoC at lvl 18 does about 135 dmg in an area around the target. descration does about 80-100 dmg (all depends on targets). with 5 n/mes on a team spiking while cloning it with archane echos. 1 spike takes down multiple targets if they are close together. iway consist of 5-7 warriors. warriors have to get close. so you all ball up to draw them in then pick off 3-4 of them at a time with the spikes AoE.
enough said
Makkert
Quote:
| IWAY and Smite Will never die |
One and Two
IWAY r2 lfg for HOH! <----(really rank 1)
R2 Smiter looking for smite group TOMBS
or my favorite:
Monk! (OMG) LFG for mission!!!!! <-doesn't realize that the enter mission button is for PVP
then there's the people who ask "what is iway" in tombs, negating any chance they had of randomly being picked up by a rank 0 group
R2 Smiter looking for smite group TOMBS
or my favorite:
Monk! (OMG) LFG for mission!!!!! <-doesn't realize that the enter mission button is for PVP
then there's the people who ask "what is iway" in tombs, negating any chance they had of randomly being picked up by a rank 0 group
FrogDevourer
Do we really have to go over this topic AGAIN?!
Tip: read more, post less.
Tip: read more, post less.
UberRusty
Quote:
| strange, I see them dying often in tombs |
Deathlord
If the W/R are using carnivore pets, you can always toss a steak into the middle of the nowhere so the pets are outta IWAY range. Or you can just pack alot of throw dirt. Even a 250% attack speed warrior with 10% Hit Chance and/or Soothing images won't be able to kill you in 10 seconds.
Hanuman li Tosh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
FoC and desecrate necros kills them in about 30 sec. watch 4-5 of them drop with one spike.
iway is flawed in the same manner of why healing ball doesn't work AoE dmg eats you alive. one meteor shower and its gg. |
as for the debate iway is easilly owned by smite, smite is easilly owned by ranger interupt, and ranger interupt/spike is easilly owned by iway. a game with over a billion skill combos has effectively become paper scissors rock. woot.
one... two... three... shoot!
Azure_Seraph
Hehe. One vs one IWAY sucks vs a very good team with coordiantion. The only time i ever lose is when theres a mishap that leads to utter failure. Iway will either dominate or be mauled. I remember we lost to iway cos we clumped up and our interrupters didnt pay attention to the e/me. Unfortunately a meteor shower dropped and we got rolled over. In about 30 minutes time we faced them again. A lil more focused and warmed up our interrupters kept the e/me down the whole time and we steam rolled them with a flawless.
But, THE BIG ISSUE is Iway in the HOH. It makes way too many bodies and is just a huge sausage fest. Profanes keep off your enchantments so its very hard to get in the middle and cap with all the damage. I wouldn't mind it at all if it wasn't so loved by the noobs and inexperienced players who lack any skill to actually play the game. But EVERY SINGLE MAP has an iway grp in it. Smiters i would not mind b/c they are ez to counter. But ppl now run it to counter iway. A game based on skill, Guild wars, actually is now becoming based on exploitation. I see sub-par players getting rank 9 and its just a misrepresentation.
But, THE BIG ISSUE is Iway in the HOH. It makes way too many bodies and is just a huge sausage fest. Profanes keep off your enchantments so its very hard to get in the middle and cap with all the damage. I wouldn't mind it at all if it wasn't so loved by the noobs and inexperienced players who lack any skill to actually play the game. But EVERY SINGLE MAP has an iway grp in it. Smiters i would not mind b/c they are ez to counter. But ppl now run it to counter iway. A game based on skill, Guild wars, actually is now becoming based on exploitation. I see sub-par players getting rank 9 and its just a misrepresentation.
dbgtboy
I was in an IWAY group where most guys were ranked under 3, and we got to hoh without no jumps at all and we beat AeC on the way there, tombs is getting so easy it aint even funny. We almost won the hoh match too, we defeated both teams on the altar but before we did our hero died 1 measly second before the cap 
and smite isnt really a counter to an iway group, only if teh iway group really sucks, on our way to hoh we faced at least 5 smiter heal ball groups and 1 of them was AeC, just dont attack the seeded guy and try to get a profane and watch them all fall down.
and smite isnt really a counter to an iway group, only if teh iway group really sucks, on our way to hoh we faced at least 5 smiter heal ball groups and 1 of them was AeC, just dont attack the seeded guy and try to get a profane and watch them all fall down.
knives
You know what would be funny? If they implemented something like no duality.
Like if one group already has 7 w/r and 1 n/mo, no other group in tombs can. But if say the necro was a n/r, then it would be allowed. Dunno..just something to piss people off.
Like if one group already has 7 w/r and 1 n/mo, no other group in tombs can. But if say the necro was a n/r, then it would be allowed. Dunno..just something to piss people off.
romO
iway and smite builds are used and they may gain some cheap UW fame, but they never really go anywhere and dont win hall. and those arent even the fotm anymore. check out what people are running in tombs these days ^^
Hanuman li Tosh
hmm, my guild won the hall with smite yesterday, i have won and held the hall with smite and i have got 7 flawlesses up to the hall with both smite and iway.
is your experience not everyones.
Quote:
| never really go anywhere and dont win hall |
KvanCetre
These things don't need a nerf, you just need to learn to use a little more thought in your strategy...
romO
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
hmm, my guild won the hall with smite yesterday, i have won and held the hall with smite and i have got 7 flawlesses up to the hall with both smite and iway.
is your experience not everyones. |
thefox
Quote:
| they are popular because they are so simple, 10 year old kids can play them |
The only problem is the relic map, where they all can spread their damage, while we can't hide in a ward or heal teammate on the other side of the map.
cookiehoarder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
just read the skill and think for yourself
FoC at lvl 18 does about 135 dmg in an area around the target. descration does about 80-100 dmg (all depends on targets). with 5 n/mes on a team spiking while cloning it with archane echos. 1 spike takes down multiple targets if they are close together. iway consist of 5-7 warriors. warriors have to get close. so you all ball up to draw them in then pick off 3-4 of them at a time with the spikes AoE. enough said |
Schorny
Single smite, double smite, ranger spike, iway, air spike - all won the hall recently. (maybe a healing ball too, but I don't know for sure)
I don't really know which game some of you play...
There are many bad groups around and you can defeat them easily. But just because you beat a bad team doesn't mean their build sucked.
I don't really know which game some of you play...
There are many bad groups around and you can defeat them easily. But just because you beat a bad team doesn't mean their build sucked.
Earendil
The total power of a team comes from:
Build output power X individual player skill of the members X team coordination.
The magic of IWAY comes from the ridiculously high output power, even with little individual player skill and no coordination. At lower levels of skill and coordination, IWAY will win over other builds, and this makes it more attractive to less experienced people.
However, once teams have higher levels of player skill and coordination, IWAY loses because of its lack of flexibility. A very good team playing an IWAY will still win over a very good team playing another build, but not on specific maps (altars) - and this makes IWAY a lot less attractive to good players.
The dual smiting setup, also requires little coordination, a little more player individual skill and while it is more flexible, both in offence and defence, the power output is lower (though higher than most). Also a very attractive build for less experienced people.
Basically, a team having well coordinated and skilled players will win many games, even if using only flare.
What really called for a spirit nerf was not really the power output or the fact it was easy to play (it wasn't), but the fact that it was denying the possibility of other builds (based on enchants, hexes or QS-vulnerable). You had no build variation possible and that was a real problem. Currently, neither the IWAY, nor the Smite build has such an effect - they dont affect other builds in any way, so there is no need for a nerf, IMO.
Earendil
Build output power X individual player skill of the members X team coordination.
The magic of IWAY comes from the ridiculously high output power, even with little individual player skill and no coordination. At lower levels of skill and coordination, IWAY will win over other builds, and this makes it more attractive to less experienced people.
However, once teams have higher levels of player skill and coordination, IWAY loses because of its lack of flexibility. A very good team playing an IWAY will still win over a very good team playing another build, but not on specific maps (altars) - and this makes IWAY a lot less attractive to good players.
The dual smiting setup, also requires little coordination, a little more player individual skill and while it is more flexible, both in offence and defence, the power output is lower (though higher than most). Also a very attractive build for less experienced people.
Basically, a team having well coordinated and skilled players will win many games, even if using only flare
. What really called for a spirit nerf was not really the power output or the fact it was easy to play (it wasn't), but the fact that it was denying the possibility of other builds (based on enchants, hexes or QS-vulnerable). You had no build variation possible and that was a real problem. Currently, neither the IWAY, nor the Smite build has such an effect - they dont affect other builds in any way, so there is no need for a nerf, IMO.
Earendil
dbgtboy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romO
if you didnt play good teams and newbs were holding hall
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Hanuman li Tosh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romO
well the thing is those builds are so incredibly easy to counter. if you didnt play good teams and newbs were holding hall, yes, it can win if you are a good team that runs it well. however, against a good team, no matter how perfectly you run it, it will be countered.
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User Name
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
do you consider black rose gaming to be good? what about nuclear launch detected? how about bring back the rifts? marvel superheros? we will own you? zodiac braves? nintendo power? my team has beaten every one of them in tombs with smite, they are all top 100 guilds (except rifts). so whatever you say sporto.
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congratulations?
Hanuman li Tosh
lol, thanks i think. i wasnt trying to brag and thats why i didnt say names the first time around. now im gonna get flamed for posting that, serves me right. im not saying im all that or that i never got owned in tombs (even by iway), i just hate it when people tell you that something you have already accomplished cant be done. notice i didnt say that I beat those teams i said my team did. team is the keyword. a true team will produce a victory against a 'better build' w/o teamwork any day of the weak.
Anraeth
why arent these counters widespread you say?
Nobody made a video yet. Most tombs groups blindly carbon copy. And fail horribly at that
Nobody made a video yet. Most tombs groups blindly carbon copy. And fail horribly at that
NightOwl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romO
iway and smite builds are used and they may gain some cheap UW fame, but they never really go anywhere and dont win hall. and those arent even the fotm anymore. check out what people are running in tombs these days ^^
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With a good iway team, you can take the hall and do quite well. On the downside, I'd estimate that greater than 99% of the iway teams are a mess, and get nowhere (i've been on quite a few of these, sad to say). Coordination and preparation are key, without 'em iway lives up to the reputation for losing it seems to have developed.
dbgtboy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
do you consider black rose gaming to be good? what about nuclear launch detected? how about bring back the rifts? marvel superheros? we will own you? zodiac braves? nintendo power? my team has beaten every one of them in tombs with smite, they are all top 100 guilds (except rifts). so whatever you say sporto.
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KuTeBaka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dbgtboy
i found myself a core group of players ^^ we met after we got to hoh on our first run together and on our second run we made it to the vault without 1 skip and we each made about 50 fame that run, on the way there we defeated MS, a guild thats is composed of rank 9s, i was the highest ranked in the group @ rank 4 and later got to rank 5 that run, the others made it to rank 3 in the run, remember guys, RANK IS NOT EVERYTHING.
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