after playing much pvp and faction farming a few things come to mind. the time it takes you to win a battle vs faction reward.
hoh and gvg gives alot of faction, but takes alot of time to assemble a group, strategy and fight the battles.
teams fall victim to still having to find a party and many chances of them leaving after the first loss. at least 1 monk is in most parties so battles will always take some time.
competition is really different considering you don't get to pick your teammates. battles can be done quickly and assembled in 30 sec. more killing more faction.
everyone complains its hard to get a monk and that's what the battle really comes down to. so why not be the monk yourself. knowing you will always have a monk really helps in consistant wins vs random people. being the monk yourself also gives you the edge that it won't be some noob at the helm with the most important job (sounds familar GWB).
here is my build that gets me 7-8 flawless consistantly no matter what party i end up with.
Mo/Ele
Armor:
all tattoos with healing helm
sup healing
minor all other
sup vigor
Attributes (with runes included):
16 healing
9 divine favor
9 protection
7 earth magic
Skills:
healing hands
healing breeze
orison of healing
armor of earth
blessed sig
life bond
balth spirit
res sig
Start of battle life bond your party and cast balth spirit on yourself. this will cut the dmg by attacks in half (aka rangers and warriors). with the dmg is redirected to you and reduced by LB balth spirit will trigger giving you 1 energy. even if the dmg is reduced to 0 ballth spirit triggers. blessed sig recharges every 10 sec giving 12 energy with each use.
monks are always the first attacked and always will be in competition. tank warriors do you no good seeing as they are last killed. what's the point of a tank if it never gets hit. your monk needs to be your tank. cast armor of earth and don't even try to run just sit there. you now have 100 armor vs physical and magic. basicly you cut the dmg delt to you in half from physical and elemenatal. if you run you are not casting to heal yourself or your party. you also make it harder for your party to hit the enemy since they are chasing you. cast breeze with 9 hp regen and just watch the battle unfold. spam breeze as much as possible on the team. if anyone gets really low start with an orison spike then hands if needed.
this build farms faction very well with 1-2 minute battles and 80% of them will be flawless no matter what teamates you get.
Faction farmer
twicky_kid
Dont Look At My
well the lifebond one is good, but the other skills in your setup really arent. If you want lifebond, focus fully on protection, but dont do everything, u'll have too low attributes.
Btw your combination is fine with attributes. But your heal spells arent that great ....
Try to bring in WoH instead of Healing Hands (personal opinion). I think its much better then any other Heal-Elite for Monks.
Btw your combination is fine with attributes. But your heal spells arent that great ....
Try to bring in WoH instead of Healing Hands (personal opinion). I think its much better then any other Heal-Elite for Monks.
FrogDevourer
At first glance it looks good against physical damagers, but how do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? I don't like B.Sp as energy management because it's unreliable. Generally speaking, you'll be the first to die in random arena so the resurrection signet is optional on a monk.
You can get flawless on a regular basis when you play a monk. If the opponent team doesn't have a healer it generally crumbles so fast you can't be killed.
You can get flawless on a regular basis when you play a monk. If the opponent team doesn't have a healer it generally crumbles so fast you can't be killed.
Dont Look At My
yep ... thats why I never really liked Heal monks, first off they cost too much energy, secondly you dont have a good spell against conditions. Protection spells cost less energy, you have Mend Aliment against condition spammers and you heal your teammates pretty well.
What you want more?
hexes cant kill your teammates anyways, just try to find the middle way, protect yourself from hexes (not spamming self protection enchantements, because your team gets down then, only against hexes), for the rest you'll be fine.
What you want more?
hexes cant kill your teammates anyways, just try to find the middle way, protect yourself from hexes (not spamming self protection enchantements, because your team gets down then, only against hexes), for the rest you'll be fine.
Dont Look At My
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
I don't like B.Sp as energy management because it's unreliable.
Yey it is, because there are some people who cast like Balthasars Spirit, Mending, and 2other enchants for self defence as monk.
And they just dont get attacked and have to watch their team die. Not a very good combo.
But if you combine Balthasars spirit with other skills, it turns out to a very good energy management system. Just up to you if you like more the +4mana regen, or gettin energy for being hit.
And they just dont get attacked and have to watch their team die. Not a very good combo.
But if you combine Balthasars spirit with other skills, it turns out to a very good energy management system. Just up to you if you like more the +4mana regen, or gettin energy for being hit.
FrogDevourer
It's good against poor sword/axe warriors who aren't dealing a decent amount of damage, and that's it. How do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? Getting 1 energy per hit doesn't help much when you're killed in 4 hits or by max DoT. And what do you do if an ally is smart enough to disable the opponent attackers with curses or blindness, or if an opponent uses enchantment removal?
Simply put, in the best conditions, B.Sp can be a great energy management skill, but in most cases you can't squeeze enough energy out of this skill to count on it when you need energy, and especially against a competent enemy.
Simply put, in the best conditions, B.Sp can be a great energy management skill, but in most cases you can't squeeze enough energy out of this skill to count on it when you need energy, and especially against a competent enemy.
Dont Look At My
yey sometimes you have problems, but its not an essential one, I use the full power of mend aliment ... If they are condition stackers, I just wait till my health drops very much down, then use mend aliment, to fully heal myself. But with my build i get enough energy from balt spirit, before I was using Essence Bond too, but dropped it due to space problems.
If I get the time I will experiment, as the most ppl go for Warriors, my whole armor is melee-defence, so warriors arent really my main problem. To counter the eles, im a prot monk, reducing their dmg with my prot skills by a very huge amout. So the only thing that could kill me then are hexes, thats why I use hex breaker, because necro cant cast fast enough to come trough it, or just with 2-3hexes out of 8. And Mesmers dont really have harmfull hexes, you can evade mesmers hexes, by just watching yourself and knowing each of their hexes. So you know what to do against which one without being able to remove them with a spell. That of course requieres lods of experience, but it works so far.
and trust me, B. Sp. is the best energy management a monk got, if you combine it with other skills, focused on u alone, it surely doesnt give you enough energy.
If I get the time I will experiment, as the most ppl go for Warriors, my whole armor is melee-defence, so warriors arent really my main problem. To counter the eles, im a prot monk, reducing their dmg with my prot skills by a very huge amout. So the only thing that could kill me then are hexes, thats why I use hex breaker, because necro cant cast fast enough to come trough it, or just with 2-3hexes out of 8. And Mesmers dont really have harmfull hexes, you can evade mesmers hexes, by just watching yourself and knowing each of their hexes. So you know what to do against which one without being able to remove them with a spell. That of course requieres lods of experience, but it works so far.
and trust me, B. Sp. is the best energy management a monk got, if you combine it with other skills, focused on u alone, it surely doesnt give you enough energy.
Dont Look At My
As you closed the other thread, just one last thing.
The hexes might get one of the teammembers down, but dont kill him, and its not necessary to win a match, because if the monk stays alive, and keeps on healing the team, the hexes disappear after a while, and the battle goes on. The Monk is the importanst part of the team. So far, Im not only playing random arena, but also tombs and team arena. Well, I wanted to bring something to the bord. Know what? The only answer I got, offering them my help, was a slap in the face. Think thats great? I dont really.
The hexes might get one of the teammembers down, but dont kill him, and its not necessary to win a match, because if the monk stays alive, and keeps on healing the team, the hexes disappear after a while, and the battle goes on. The Monk is the importanst part of the team. So far, Im not only playing random arena, but also tombs and team arena. Well, I wanted to bring something to the bord. Know what? The only answer I got, offering them my help, was a slap in the face. Think thats great? I dont really.
twicky_kid
hexs are not a problem for the majority b/c i'm a smart player. my fav class on the game is a mesmer so i know what everyone of the icons are.
there are only a few hexes on the game do bother me but then agian those hexes bother everyone.
btw spike dmg with armor of earth is no longer spike dmg. got hit by a maxed lightning orb for 60 dmg. that is cutting the thing in half even with the 25% armor penetration.
i play it smart and watch my guys. breeze does most of the work by spamming it on entire party reduce the amount of orison i need to cast. if i'm not being hit i get the 12 energy ever 10 sec, and if i'm not getting hit bond is redirecting to me anyways give more energy. energy management is the hardest thing with a monk. this build takes care of that easy. you hit me it gives me energy. you don't hit me you still give me energy.
just try it before you bash it.
there are only a few hexes on the game do bother me but then agian those hexes bother everyone.
btw spike dmg with armor of earth is no longer spike dmg. got hit by a maxed lightning orb for 60 dmg. that is cutting the thing in half even with the 25% armor penetration.
i play it smart and watch my guys. breeze does most of the work by spamming it on entire party reduce the amount of orison i need to cast. if i'm not being hit i get the 12 energy ever 10 sec, and if i'm not getting hit bond is redirecting to me anyways give more energy. energy management is the hardest thing with a monk. this build takes care of that easy. you hit me it gives me energy. you don't hit me you still give me energy.
just try it before you bash it.
FrogDevourer
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Quote: Originally Posted by twicky_kid btw spike dmg with armor of earth is no longer spike dmg. got hit by a maxed lightning orb for 60 dmg. that is cutting the thing in half even with the 25% armor penetration. Simply put, enchantment removal will break your main defense, and you have no backup. The same stands for energy stealing. You have no way to reliably gain energy against a good inspiration mesmer.
Quote: Originally Posted by twicky_kid
breeze does most of the work by spamming it on entire party reduce the amount of orison i need to cast.
Great. Now how do you fuel a 10e skill like breeze with 0pips of energy? Balthazar's Spirit? Either your opponents are fighting you with zero damage attacks and zero enchantment removal (typical palanoob), or you have a secret trick I'd like to know. A decent warrior build will do more damage with each hit than you can heal with the energy gained from B.Sp.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
just try it before you bash it.
I didn't bash it. I just explained to DLAM why I didn't like B.Sp as energy managment skill, încluding in the random arena. As for your build, I asked a couple of questions which you answered or not, and I gave a few tips which you can ignore if you want. If you don't want questions and constructive criticisms, then add a warning to the OP.
EDIT: Learn from the best. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=31 http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=92 http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=122 Detrius
You guys really need to revisit the competition arena. Remember that you are going to almost always be facing n00bs. Focused fire almost never happens. Condition stacking and good inpiration mesmers are even more rare. Fighting a group with 3 W/Mo happens all the time (ok, I exagurate but Warriors are by far the most common opposition and will be disorganized and without complementing skills). I like this build considering the realities of CA.
Dont Look At My
twicky, there are a few problems with your build, Im sorry but this has to be said, so you can make improvements.
1) As you have earth magic to protect yourself, this has some negative consequences: you dont have all your attributes to spend on monk spells. 2) Bad energy management, I mean the thing with balthasar is a good idea, but lets be honest. you get 12 energy every 10seconds, by not getting hit. Against a bad team ok, you can get out of it. Lets just get the case with the ennemi team having one ele, no matter which one. 3) Bad Heal skills: actually your orison heals like 75 or something. Now lets come back to our ele: *The damage doesnt get halfed by Lifebond, because it only considers attacks. *Conclusion: You dont get energy for the ele hitting you or your teammate. Now Healing hands doesnt really help against 100+ air damage, now tell me please. how do you want to keep yourself or a teammate against an ele alive with 12energy for 10seconds? thats like casting orison twice which makes about ~150healing. Thats how much he takes off from you in 2-3seconds. Any case like that, no matter if its Ele, Necro or Mesmer with -Life regeneration hexes. Lifebond doesnt half the damage and you dont get energy. The only thing it really works for is a nooby paladin-prebuild warrior, for the rest, forget it. Try to get something other. Like Divine Boon is really good for energy management. Try Peace and Harmony+Divine Boon, you still have +4 mana regeneration and heal for much more. anyways, good comments FrogDevourer
twicky_kid
this is made for CA to get flawless victories no matter what team you get. for people that have just started getting into pvp and need some faction this is the build i'd go with.
i know its not something you normally see which is why i think it works so well. make it and see what happens. there is always going to be problems but you have to consider most enemies are warriors and rangers. they make you an energy machine while doing almost nothing with the armor of earth on. if they hit anyone else on your team it will be cut in half while still giving me energy. i spam breeze on everyone and wait till they are <50% hp to cast orison or hands. if there are 2 in trouble i cast hands on one then breeze the other followed by orison. then i go back to the person that has hands and breeze him. Dzan
16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
It's good against poor sword/axe warriors who aren't dealing a decent amount of damage, and that's it. How do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? Getting 1 energy per hit doesn't help much when you're killed in 4 hits or by max DoT. And what do you do if an ally is smart enough to disable the opponent attackers with curses or blindness, or if an opponent uses enchantment removal?
Simply put, in the best conditions, B.Sp can be a great energy management skill, but in most cases you can't squeeze enough energy out of this skill to count on it when you need energy, and especially against a competent enemy. i don't die in 4 hits which explains why this build is designed for flawless victories in the CA (competition arena). frag is easy to counter considering it has a 3 sec window on its dmg dealing. 2 orison negates a frag. i have since removed my res for mend ailment and it seems to work much more stable than before. i don't encounter much enchant removal in CA but when i do i always have breeze as a cover spell. main problems i have is backfire, soul leech and diversion, but any monk w/o obsidian flesh or spell breaker are going to have problems with those hexes.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
before you comment on this build on paper go try it out then come back to me.
many builds look good on paper but when you accually try them it could be the opposite.
Dont Look At My
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
this is made for CA to get flawless victories no matter what team you get. for people that have just started getting into pvp and need some faction this is the build i'd go with.
i know its not something you normally see which is why i think it works so well. make it and see what happens. there is always going to be problems but you have to consider most enemies are warriors and rangers. they make you an energy machine while doing almost nothing with the armor of earth on. if they hit anyone else on your team it will be cut in half while still giving me energy. i spam breeze on everyone and wait till they are <50% hp to cast orison or hands. if there are 2 in trouble i cast hands on one then breeze the other followed by orison. then i go back to the person that has hands and breeze him. err ... resulting to this post I think you didnt read mine, go and read the one I posted just above that one, and then please post again. Read it carefully and think about it before you post again, thank you.
Dont Look At My
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
I agree with twicky, your proposition is way worse than his one, way too worse. Look at his spells, do you see anything that would be greatly improved by Divine Favor?
I dont see a single one, so doing your proposition would just be a waste of attributes, and gettin healing power lower.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont Look At My
err ... resulting to this post I think you didnt read mine, go and read the one I posted just above that one, and then please post again. Read it carefully and think about it before you post again, thank you.
just the same as i said to Dzan go try the build then come back and talk to me. no point in arguing about.
Dont Look At My
well I think you dont know who you talking to, I playd so many variations of this build, you just made it up in your head, so I think I'm the one who should tell you:
"Go, follow my advices and practise a bit, grow up, and after you're a bit more mature come back again!" Do I talk like that? No I dont, but if you want it that way, I can also go like that. Of your last post I think you still didnt read mine, stop posting worthless staff and start reading my advices. If you want help, first read the stuff I posted down, or ask FrogDevourer to close the thread, that's up to you.
twicky_kid
this build has nothing to do with you in the first place. i put it here for people that might want a good monk build to use in CA to get faction with. if you don't like then don't use it. as you said you've used every variation of this build. well that's great. if you've moved on to bigger and better things then good for you. glad to see you grow. since you have already unlocked these skills and others then you won't need this now will you.
so far i haven't seen anything but attacks from you. go troll someone else's post. i do appreciate frog's replies b/c it didn't say that this wouldn't work he just asked questions about certian situations. i responded to those questions and if he wants to post a reply on my answers that's fine. NO BUILD IN GW IS FULLPROOF!!!! this one is more consistant in CA and very easy to run. never said this would own team arenas, hoh, or gvg. its made for COMPETITION ARENA.
Dont Look At My
well as you said you want people to get a good build, I want just to show you where you could improve it to help other people?
well tell me where I said it wont work, as Frod I did just put your build into certain situations and show you whats bad on it, cuz actually orison is a really bad skills, only good for starting off in PvE. Now I just wanted to help you, didnt really go rude on you, but as far as I see, you just go rude on everyone who hasnt got some moderator rights, and who comments you, correct? well dzan was wrong, and I posted that, but theres no reason for going rude on him as you do on me, where I only try to help you and other people.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont Look At My
well as you said you want people to get a good build, I want just to show you where you could improve it to help other people?
well tell me where I said it wont work, as Frod I did just put your build into certain situations and show you whats bad on it, cuz actually orison is a really bad skills, only good for starting off in PvE. Now I just wanted to help you, didnt really go rude on you, but as far as I see, you just go rude on everyone who hasnt got some moderator rights, and who comments you, correct? well dzan was wrong, and I posted that, but theres no reason for going rude on him as you do on me, where I only try to help you and other people. this is for a new player that wants some quick faction. there are better builds out there when you have a cordinated group. CA is not cordinated in the least. orison works in this case b/c its 5 energy and spamable. with my divine favor its a 100+ heal spike. you don't need alot of healing due to breeze and life bond. armor of earth cuts the dmg to you in half. its for emergencies so i can reup breeze or hands and move to another target. since orison can hit anyone for cheap affective healing it works for this build perfect. i can take any build you think up and put in a situation where it will fail. that agruement has long sailed. frog asked a question of what i do in those situations. you just pointed out that it won't work b/c of this at this time will kill you. wasn't rude to other people that posted here. dzan said 16 healing is bad. suggested that he go try then come back and talk to me. that is not being rude that is encourging him to accually try it out and see it might broaden his horizons. when i see a build i always go try it as is and use the strategy that person suggested. even if i know its weak in some areas i see how it plays out in real combat b/c that's all that really matters. btw i did remove the res sig and replace it with mend ailment. that is working much better but the core values of this build hasn't changed.
Dont Look At My
yey you're right, I just wanted to point to you, your build is really good,
but the best way to go against eles, the situation I showed you, Is to go fully into protecter, which will also make lifebond less harmful to you, just a suggestion, but thats something everyone has to decide for himself.
twicky_kid
i did think about doing that but prot monks rely on divine boon for healing. noticed anything above 17-19 reduction on LB isn't worth it b/c its just physical attacks (some wands but you know.....). i never receive any dmg unless its an axe warrior using his skills. other than that the dmg to me is 0 and triggering BS.
Dont Look At My
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
btw i did remove the res sig and replace it with mend ailment. that is working much better but the core values of this build hasn't changed.
yep, I never use Res Signet as monk, because I have to heal, and while the only monk resses, a new teammember can be taken down in that time.
"If there's noone dying, there's no need for res signet." where is the problem? flawless victory, everything perfect xD Dzan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont Look At My
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
just remember this is ONLY for competition arenas for consistant flawless with a very easy to use monk. Precur
I must agree that bring a Monk to the Competitive Arenas for farming faction
is probaby the best choice to get alot of wins. Imho, Prot/Healer Monks shine in CA .. straight healers are too mana intensive .. been there done that. Aegis, Rof, Dwayna's kiss, healing touch, mend aliment, res. signet are staples of the good CA Monks. |