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| Prior to the October 1 ladder reset, we will be updating Guild Wars with a comprehensive set of skill balance changes to refresh the competitive landscape. |
Incoming skill "balance"...I'm afraid for us PvE only players
Pandanslesdents
rii
In all honesty, how can you mess up pve? There are no glaring holes in pve besides 1 monk farming the whole level, which i assume is what your refering to. And lets face fact here, as hilarious as it is, no matter how much skill you have/need to execute/design it, the point of gw is team based gaming. So youd think theyd try and nerf it/make it more difficult.
As for anything in pve aside from solo farming, whats there to nerf? I went through as an ele with more or less the same 8 skills that i got at the beginning of the game, up until meteor shower, at which point i turned into a bot.
No matter what they do, as far as im concerned pve wont change. Skill balance doesnt make it not fun (although personally I get bored out of my brains by it- others disagree). Arcane Echo chaos Storm fTw!
As for anything in pve aside from solo farming, whats there to nerf? I went through as an ele with more or less the same 8 skills that i got at the beginning of the game, up until meteor shower, at which point i turned into a bot.
No matter what they do, as far as im concerned pve wont change. Skill balance doesnt make it not fun (although personally I get bored out of my brains by it- others disagree). Arcane Echo chaos Storm fTw!
IceD'Bear
What did thy 'mess up' last time? If you are talking about Protective bond, that wasn't a PvP balance change.
Sanji
Three Words: Working as intended.
Skills are changed to help the environment from stagnating. If you can not accept the fact that PvP and PvE balance is not exclusive then you may want to shop around for a game better suited to you.
PvE won't be unplayable should environment deforming skills be rebalanced to anyone with the ability to think for themselves instead of copying net builds and otherwise relying on being told what skills are good or not.
Skills are changed to help the environment from stagnating. If you can not accept the fact that PvP and PvE balance is not exclusive then you may want to shop around for a game better suited to you.
PvE won't be unplayable should environment deforming skills be rebalanced to anyone with the ability to think for themselves instead of copying net builds and otherwise relying on being told what skills are good or not.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by rii
Arcane Echo chaos Storm fTw!
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It's a decent "softening up" spell, especially against PvE casters, but you can do more damage quicker with other combos.
EDIT: Oh, and we PvE'ers have nothing to fear from a rebalancing. People exploiting broken skills like Protective Bond was, or Ether Renewal/Oath Shot are, will get spanked, but real PvE'ers have nothing to fear.
FrogDevourer
Perfect PvE team to breeze through all missions/quests:
1 tank to take the aggro (warr/ranger)
3 AoE damage dealers (e.g: the boring but powerful echo nukers)
2 monks
2 support characters (necro, mesmer, interrupt ranger)
Good PvE team able to beat all missions and almost all quests:
1 human player (build doesn't matter)
7 henchmen
I don't think ANet can mess up PvE, even with a huge skill balance.
Now if you're talking of solo-farming, it's not there are many threads out there which explain in details why it greatly increased the current inflation, the item drop reduction, and the skill updates on a few skills which were not exploited in PVP.
1 tank to take the aggro (warr/ranger)
3 AoE damage dealers (e.g: the boring but powerful echo nukers)
2 monks
2 support characters (necro, mesmer, interrupt ranger)
Good PvE team able to beat all missions and almost all quests:
1 human player (build doesn't matter)
7 henchmen
I don't think ANet can mess up PvE, even with a huge skill balance.
Now if you're talking of solo-farming, it's not there are many threads out there which explain in details why it greatly increased the current inflation, the item drop reduction, and the skill updates on a few skills which were not exploited in PVP.
Alex Weekes
A major part of the balance changes this time around included a long look at under-used skills. A large proportion of the changes are improvements, rather than nerfs, and when we have nerfed we've tried to do so in a way that preserves the viability of a build while removing the 'overpowered' elements. We don't want to punish players for being inventive 
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KaPe
I'd like to know, what exactly was "ruined" in PvE according to first poster. Solo-farming ability? People still do it, it's just slightly harder. Missions are impossible? Definately not, you can have up to 8 people, surely not all 450 skills were made useless? 
Arathorn5000
Very cool, I'm looking forward to it. Gaile mentioned on TGH that the skill changes will be announced before the ladder resets, so any day now I guess
Vermilion Okeanos
omg... I see light for mind freeze!! I think? I certainly hope we won't have to wait until chapter 2 for mind freeze to get a combo partner or something.
Saerden
Mind Freeze
10 Energy / 1s cast / 20s recharge
Target foe suffers 1...34 cold damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, that foe suffers an additional 1...34 cold damage and moves 50% slower for 2...5 seconds. [You must be really desperate and/or clueless to use this. Therefore we grant you the following benefit: During full moon, enemies that took at least 50 damage from this pathetic skill will drop an ecto. A boss killed by only using mind freeze will summon Gwen. Of course, if you can read this, you hacked into the game since we dont believe in accurate skill descriptions and made this text invisible.]
10 Energy / 1s cast / 20s recharge
Target foe suffers 1...34 cold damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, that foe suffers an additional 1...34 cold damage and moves 50% slower for 2...5 seconds. [You must be really desperate and/or clueless to use this. Therefore we grant you the following benefit: During full moon, enemies that took at least 50 damage from this pathetic skill will drop an ecto. A boss killed by only using mind freeze will summon Gwen. Of course, if you can read this, you hacked into the game since we dont believe in accurate skill descriptions and made this text invisible.]
Charcoal Ann
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
A major part of the balance changes this time around included a long look at under-used skills. A large proportion of the changes are improvements, rather than nerfs, and when we have nerfed we've tried to do so in a way that preserves the viability of a build while removing the 'overpowered' elements. We don't want to punish players for being inventive
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huzzah!
(i hope)...
snepp
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Originally Posted by KaPe
I'd like to know, what exactly was "ruined" in PvE according to first poster.
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My personal breakdown from the last skill balance.
31 buffs
13 "nerfs"
3 bit of both
Theus
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
A major part of the balance changes this time around included a long look at under-used skills. A large proportion of the changes are improvements, rather than nerfs, and when we have nerfed we've tried to do so in a way that preserves the viability of a build while removing the 'overpowered' elements. We don't want to punish players for being inventive
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Seriously.That skill needs a serious buff since its really the only effective skill agaisnt enchantments and other skills that block/evade.
Akathrielah
Warrior's Cunning?
Maybe a bit of a buff, although a warrior shouldn't have a "ignore all enchantments and stances" button that lasts for all too long.
Elementalists definately needs a buff
Subpar DPS vs warriors and rangers in even the supposed DPS lines (air and fire), water needs costs and recasts times cut.
Something should finally be done about Ether Renewal and the stupid high dps that ranger interrupts can output.
As to head back on topic, concidering that nearly all (if not all) of the missons can be completed using henchmen, I don't see why there is any thing to fear. Sorrow's Furnace can be effectively done with 4 -5 people. The only thing the last skill balance did for pve, was to remove all of the idiots who copied the 105/55 build. Those who knew how it worked merely changed a few skills around and went back to farming.
Maybe a bit of a buff, although a warrior shouldn't have a "ignore all enchantments and stances" button that lasts for all too long.
Elementalists definately needs a buff
Subpar DPS vs warriors and rangers in even the supposed DPS lines (air and fire), water needs costs and recasts times cut.
Something should finally be done about Ether Renewal and the stupid high dps that ranger interrupts can output.
As to head back on topic, concidering that nearly all (if not all) of the missons can be completed using henchmen, I don't see why there is any thing to fear. Sorrow's Furnace can be effectively done with 4 -5 people. The only thing the last skill balance did for pve, was to remove all of the idiots who copied the 105/55 build. Those who knew how it worked merely changed a few skills around and went back to farming.
The undead Mesmer
some water ele skills should get a buff and so do some petmastery skills some are yust to weak 
User Name
Why would they balance this game around PvE? PvE doesn't require anything more than the 8 skills you get in pre-searing and some solid organization. Drop the organization..pick up 2 monks for every mission (3 of TK and Fire Island Chain) and an assortment of skills to use and any 12 yr old austitic child could breeze through. If you're refering to Protective Bond...I can assure you that the math was done incorrectly and ArenaNet never took into consideration the lvl17 cast for that skill. It was never intended to work the way it was being used. Skills that get abused by farmers are often noticed more quickly as being incomplete/broken/over-powered. Protective Bond was one of them(broken)...ER is another(overpowered)....
It's called progressing. They're not trying to ruin the game for you. They're trying to improve the game for you. After the skills that are often abused get toned down the skills that are hardly ever used are going to get buffed....
It's called progressing. They're not trying to ruin the game for you. They're trying to improve the game for you. After the skills that are often abused get toned down the skills that are hardly ever used are going to get buffed....
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
A major part of the balance changes this time around included a long look at under-used skills. A large proportion of the changes are improvements, rather than nerfs, and when we have nerfed we've tried to do so in a way that preserves the viability of a build while removing the 'overpowered' elements. We don't want to punish players for being inventive
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Perishiko ReLLiK
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Originally Posted by IceD'Bear
What did thy 'mess up' last time? If you are talking about Protective bond, that wasn't a PvP balance change.
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Without an example you just make yourself sound redundant (op).
Akathrielah
old Nature's Renewal is hex removal as a nuke is a type of bomb.
I mean really, it was stupidly strong in pvp and had little use in PvE, so give it up already.
Like or not interrupts have to be readjusted, they shouldn't spike harder than damn near everything else in game.
I mean really, it was stupidly strong in pvp and had little use in PvE, so give it up already.
Like or not interrupts have to be readjusted, they shouldn't spike harder than damn near everything else in game.
sly_1
It's obvious to me they will nerf mending. That skill is waaaay overpowered!
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Akathrielah
old Nature's Renewal is hex removal as a nuke is a type of bomb.
I mean really, it was stupidly strong in pvp and had little use in PvE, so give it up already. Like or not interrupts have to be readjusted, they shouldn't spike harder than damn near everything else in game. |
As for interrupts, they're fine and far too easy to counter.
The undead Mesmer
try using something different like a errrm WATER ele im sure some skills there are powerfull.
Anet plz buff mist form
Anet plz buff mist form
Snowman
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
A major part of the balance changes this time around included a long look at under-used skills. A large proportion of the changes are improvements, rather than nerfs, and when we have nerfed we've tried to do so in a way that preserves the viability of a build while removing the 'overpowered' elements. We don't want to punish players for being inventive
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So when determining which skills are "under-used" do you mean in the PVP scene or the PVE scene?.. or do you try to improve skills so that they would be more used in both scenes ?
As the balance update was announced in the same breath as the new tourny announcment, I would assume that the skills under review would probably be looking at the PVP Scene, so understandable that peeps should worry about their PvE.
The undead Mesmer
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Originally Posted by Snowman
There are alot of skills which have good use in PvE but not really used in PvP.
So when determining which skills are "under-used" do you mean in the PVP scene or the PVE scene?.. or do you try to improve skills so that they would be more used in both scenes ? As the balance update was announced in the same breath as the new tourny announcment, I would assume that the skills under review would probably be looking at the PVP Scene, so understandable that peeps should worry about their PvE. |
kawaii_bat
They should change Sooooooo many necromancer skills it isn't even funny anymore thinkgina bout it!
I mean dark pact! Who in his right MIND would sacrifice 17% of his health to deal a measly 10-40 shadow damage? WHO?!
Oh! sure it's 5 energy sure it's got a awesome skill recharge but no one uses it!
No one!
Those blood and curses skills need serious upratings instead of nerfs.
signet of agony, touch of agony, defile flesh really blow!
I mean dark pact! Who in his right MIND would sacrifice 17% of his health to deal a measly 10-40 shadow damage? WHO?!
Oh! sure it's 5 energy sure it's got a awesome skill recharge but no one uses it!
No one!
Those blood and curses skills need serious upratings instead of nerfs.
signet of agony, touch of agony, defile flesh really blow!
snepp
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
As for interrupts, they're fine and far too easy to counter.
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MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by snepp
When an interrupt build can deal more damage than a damage build does, it's not fine. The fact that it can be countered is irrelevant.
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Sentao Nugra
skill fixes i forsee:
ether renewal is +5 energy flat, not per enchantment
savage shot is slowed down, along with other ranger interrupts
elemential skills get lower energy OR higher damage and quicker cast times
warriors... dont need any fixes ive seen of late
monks are working fine, and since the regular smiting skills (not ER) were being used before the first patch, they will stay the same and just change ER. but maybe a little boost to healing skills (faster recharge possibly?)
for necros all i see is a slowed down cast or recharge of some corpse skills
and mesmers need a little boost to chaos storm (lower energy or more damage) and something to make echo{e} more efficient than arcane echo other than energy (since really only eles use it or for shatter hex)
thats all i can see, but i havent been playing all my chars lately
ether renewal is +5 energy flat, not per enchantment
savage shot is slowed down, along with other ranger interrupts
elemential skills get lower energy OR higher damage and quicker cast times
warriors... dont need any fixes ive seen of late
monks are working fine, and since the regular smiting skills (not ER) were being used before the first patch, they will stay the same and just change ER. but maybe a little boost to healing skills (faster recharge possibly?)
for necros all i see is a slowed down cast or recharge of some corpse skills
and mesmers need a little boost to chaos storm (lower energy or more damage) and something to make echo{e} more efficient than arcane echo other than energy (since really only eles use it or for shatter hex)
thats all i can see, but i havent been playing all my chars lately
tigernz
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Originally Posted by kawaii_bat
They should change Sooooooo many necromancer skills it isn't even funny anymore thinkgina bout it!
I mean dark pact! Who in his right MIND would sacrifice 17% of his health to deal a measly 10-40 shadow damage? WHO?! Oh! sure it's 5 energy sure it's got a awesome skill recharge but no one uses it! No one! Those blood and curses skills need serious upratings instead of nerfs. signet of agony, touch of agony, defile flesh really blow! |
Ever tried a blood necro spamming dark pact, shadow strike & vamp gaze? 200+ UNRESISTED damage in about 5-6 seconds, and provided the enemy was over 50% health when you started casting you can go dark pact->shadow strike->dark pact -> vamp gaze and deal 270 or so (unresisted) damage and still be at full health.
Signet of Agony and Touch of Agony also work very well with the right build (Dark Aura necro using AotL anyone?)
Haven't really used defile flesh so can't comment on that.
The one change I'd like to see is fixing the glitch that causes kindle arrows to do the kindle damage even when the arrow misses/is blocked/is evaded
kawaii_bat
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Originally Posted by tigernz
Hate to disagree with you here but...
Ever tried a blood necro spamming dark pact, shadow strike & vamp gaze? 200+ UNRESISTED damage in about 5-6 seconds, and provided the enemy was over 50% health when you started casting you can go dark pact->shadow strike->dark pact -> vamp gaze and deal 270 or so (unresisted) damage and still be at full health. Signet of Agony and Touch of Agony also work very well with the right build (Dark Aura necro using AotL anyone?) Haven't really used defile flesh so can't comment on that. The one change I'd like to see is fixing the glitch that causes kindle arrows to do the kindle damage even when the arrow misses/is blocked/is evaded |
I don't agree with a skill that causes you to lose 1/10+ your health and deals maximum 40 damage. Sure it passes armor, sure you can do it often...But it's just no practical in my eyes.
Shyft the Pyro
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Originally Posted by kawaii_bat
You're talking about shadow strike & vamp gaze not *only* Dark pact.
I don't agree with a skill that causes you to lose 1/10+ your health and deals maximum 40 damage. Sure it passes armor, sure you can do it often...But it's just no practical in my eyes. |
Protective Bond would not have been nerfed if Balthazar's Spirit and Essence Bond didn't exist.
Mhydrian
I hope they eff up mesmers and make melee less easily countered.
Sanji
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Originally Posted by Mhydrian
I hope they eff up mesmers and make melee less easily countered.
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Mhydrian
Frag mesmers need to be "adjusted" single spells that disable an entire class(melee) for an entire fight have NO place in competitive PVP.
Imagine if melee had a fire and forget skill that was easy to refresh that rendered a caster completely unable to cast and snared them as well. Imagine the outcrys.
Imagine if melee had a fire and forget skill that was easy to refresh that rendered a caster completely unable to cast and snared them as well. Imagine the outcrys.
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
We don't want to punish players for being inventive
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Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang
That's all I need to know.
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rii
Most of the skills asking for buffs so far really are fine. Either they are weak atm and wont get buffed since buffing them would make them overpowered (e.g. vampiric gaze), or they are fairly powerful anyway (mist form).
Frag mesmers do lots of damage but only on condition.... organisation owns it as has been said many times.
Melee is easily countered but with stuff like martyr its not too hard to uncounter. As for hexes, most monks have hex breaker, so that leaves all the removes, smites and converts for the offense. Aside from rapid hax stacking.
A few skills that might actually get changed (from my point of view);
rust: Upgrade to nearby pllllllllllllease!?
Oh yeah and i was joking about arcane echo chaos storm, although it is reasonable in fairness. I used it in the henge mission to great sucess.
Frag mesmers do lots of damage but only on condition.... organisation owns it as has been said many times.
Melee is easily countered but with stuff like martyr its not too hard to uncounter. As for hexes, most monks have hex breaker, so that leaves all the removes, smites and converts for the offense. Aside from rapid hax stacking.
A few skills that might actually get changed (from my point of view);
rust: Upgrade to nearby pllllllllllllease!?
Oh yeah and i was joking about arcane echo chaos storm, although it is reasonable in fairness. I used it in the henge mission to great sucess.
wsmcasey
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Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Hear hear. I'm happy with that as well.
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Akathrielah
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Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Frag mesmers need to be "adjusted" single spells that disable an entire class(melee) for an entire fight have NO place in competitive PVP.
Imagine if melee had a fire and forget skill that was easy to refresh that rendered a caster completely unable to cast and snared them as well. Imagine the outcrys. |
And the deal with interrupts is the fact that Punishing Shot is basically Power Shot that can interrupt and the fact that all 3 (punishing, savage, and distracting) can be chained in less than a second. Combine this with kindle and you have a potent combo. Use this in a chain RIGHT after you fired dual shot and you've got yourself a rather stupid powerful combo.
And the fact that this can be countered is moot, all damage can be countered, and all forms of direct damage is more or less "easy" to counter (warrior, ranger, elementalist, blood necromancer). Either is an evasion/dodge skill/enchantment (Aegis) or a damage capper (prot spirit) or the combination of the two.