Moving lips for cutscenes
Xue Yi Liang
- it's no big deal. just wanted to bring it up.
KvanCetre
Meh, if you had to pick between having someone working on chapter 2 or someone animating lips, what would you pick 
Xue Yi Liang
- it's no big deal. just wanted to bring it up.
sledgeunderhill
And synchronized to which language?
Jenosavel
Being an animator myself I can tell you that you really don't want this to happen. As you've hopefully noticed, Guild Wars uses the actual game engine for its cut-scenes. That means that to be capable of lip-syncing in those cut-scenes the game engine itself is gonna have to have all that added animation information tagging along while you're playing. Trust me, that would be a lot of useless baggage information slowing down your play. I say more baddies on one map than some moving mouths! ...since that, or something similar, would be the trade off.
Arturo02
this is because it is one of the most difficult things to do in animation.
Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by Arturo02
this is because it is one of the most difficult things to do in animation.
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Arturo02
yah maybe I should have said pain in the arse. More appropriate.
But am I off base here? I thought this was a difficult area for animators.
But am I off base here? I thought this was a difficult area for animators.
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by Jenosavel
Being an animator myself I can tell you that you really don't want this to happen. As you've hopefully noticed, Guild Wars uses the actual game engine for its cut-scenes. That means that to be capable of lip-syncing in those cut-scenes the game engine itself is gonna have to have all that added animation information tagging along while you're playing. Trust me, that would be a lot of useless baggage information slowing down your play. I say more baddies on one map than some moving mouths! ...since that, or something similar, would be the trade off.
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I guess it'll be another 5 or 6 years before I can see my characters grimace in pain or rage in gameplay battle. Until then I'll settle for stoicism.
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by sledgeunderhill
And synchronized to which language?
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Sister Rosette
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Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang
How about Japanese? "Oh no! It's Godzirra!"
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Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by Arturo02
yah maybe I should have said pain in the arse. More appropriate.
But am I off base here? I thought this was a difficult area for animators. |
LifeInfusion
I agree. It is kind of wierd when they talk and their mouths are closed.
John Bloodstone
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Originally Posted by Jenosavel
Being an animator myself I can tell you that you really don't want this to happen. As you've hopefully noticed, Guild Wars uses the actual game engine for its cut-scenes. That means that to be capable of lip-syncing in those cut-scenes the game engine itself is gonna have to have all that added animation information tagging along while you're playing. Trust me, that would be a lot of useless baggage information slowing down your play. I say more baddies on one map than some moving mouths! ...since that, or something similar, would be the trade off.
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Considering how technically advanced this game is in all other respects, I think lipsync is a bit of a glaring omission. Granted, its to save time and money, but it should be added in in Chapter 2 imo.
Lipsync by no means has to be as good as Half Life 2, but if you've ever played Dawn of War, the ingame models there have rudimentary lipsync which I think would be a good level for Guild Wars to aim for.
Jenosavel
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| Granted, its to save time and money, but it should be added in in Chapter 2 imo. |
The thing is they currently don't do a swapping of character models just for the cut-scenes, so I doubt we'll see it in the next chapter either. I really would like to though!
John Bloodstone
Aye, it'll never happen and I know it, but a Man can dream!
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by John Bloodstone
Aye, it'll never happen and I know it, but a Man can dream!
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John Bloodstone
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Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang
going out on a limb here, but were you, by chance, referencing an episode of Futurama right there? If not, forget I asked...
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Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by John Bloodstone
Heh, that sounds about right. I don't always remember where I get my sayings from, but I think you nailed that one right there. On this instance however I'm not referring to the fing-longer
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Ultimate_Gaara
its not needed but it would be really nice to see... sometimes i think maybe this is based in the grim future where people can read other's thoughts
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
its not needed but it would be really nice to see... sometimes i think maybe this is based in the grim future where people can read other's thoughts
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btw - your avatar gives me a small headache if I look at it for more than 5 seconds ...
Ex Animo
/signed , with one milion sales , they sure can spend some more money on the cinematics ... and another thing ... real motion capture for char movements ... i know this is a lot of work , but it would make the game even more state of the art ... SWG as this feature , even with old school grafics , real motion capture makes its more real , then gw movementes , that are robotic and feel fake.
Cassius The Bold
Funny thing, CGW just had an interview with GW personnel and this was one of the questions... the answer was basically "hmm, interesting, we'll get around to it eventually." But if you think about it logically, it would be a pain in the *** to lip sync all the different languages to the characters and I'd rather they work on more content than moving mouths.
Racthoh
Even if their lips don't match up to what they're saying, it just looks awful during the cutscenes. They show no emotion, they just stand there moving about and talking.
Rieselle
Incidentally, characters have blinking eyes, so we know the engine is capable of facial animation. I see no problem with having a mouth that just opens and closes for the duration that character's speech audio. It doesnt have to be matched to what words they are saying or anything.
In pseudo code, it would look like:
While (Playing Speech("I an Rurik! I am Roxxor!"))
{
Play Animation("Flapping lips") on Rurik.
}
In pseudo code, it would look like:
While (Playing Speech("I an Rurik! I am Roxxor!"))
{
Play Animation("Flapping lips") on Rurik.
}
Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by Rieselle
Incidentally, characters have blinking eyes, so we know the engine is capable of facial animation.
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Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by Jenosavel
I'm fairly certain that this is a moot point. If I guess right, it doesn't involve poly-manipulation like a mouth movement would. ...unless you're advocating texture-only mouth animation? That could look really funny if you got a decent view of it, and I don't mean "funny" in a good way.
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The closest thing I can think of is those Clutch Cargo cartoons from the 1950's - (also shown in a flashback scene of Pulp Fiction).
It looks even stranger with CG.
True speech simulation requires distortion of facial maps - which often means you need to approxomate lines of tension and distortion - even then, when it isn't done right it can look odd - sometimes more grotesque than Clutch Cargo.
Zaklex
This is the exact reply from GG in the CGW article:
"CGW: OK, now for a pair of real riddles. First off, why don't characters' mouths ever move during cut-scenes?
GG: Because [they] have the amazing ability to emit sounds and communicate their messages without such mundane things as mouth movement! OK, OK, fine...due to the fact that GW has been localized into six languages thus far, we felt that our development time was better spent creating more content rather than expending the time and effort to lip-synch dialogue to various languages. We'll continue to refine the immersion of the story, and having more realistic facial animation is definitely something we'll look into for the future"
"CGW: OK, now for a pair of real riddles. First off, why don't characters' mouths ever move during cut-scenes?
GG: Because [they] have the amazing ability to emit sounds and communicate their messages without such mundane things as mouth movement! OK, OK, fine...due to the fact that GW has been localized into six languages thus far, we felt that our development time was better spent creating more content rather than expending the time and effort to lip-synch dialogue to various languages. We'll continue to refine the immersion of the story, and having more realistic facial animation is definitely something we'll look into for the future"
Cjlr
They don't need to animate the lips, come on. The characters are just *all* psychic, every last one of them. /sarcasm
Actually it'd be kinda cool, but not something really important. I'd rather have something more gameplay-related.
Actually it'd be kinda cool, but not something really important. I'd rather have something more gameplay-related.
Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by Zaklex
GG: Because [they] have the amazing ability to emit sounds and communicate their messages without such mundane things as mouth movement! OK, OK, fine...due to the fact that GW has been localized into six languages thus far, we felt that our development time was better spent creating more content rather than expending the time and effort to lip-synch dialogue to various languages. We'll continue to refine the immersion of the story, and having more realistic facial animation is definitely something we'll look into for the future"
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Sagius Truthbarron
/sighned
Mumoto
CGW: OK, now for a pair of real riddles. First off, why don't characters' mouths ever move during cut-scenes?
GG: Because [they] have the amazing ability to emit sounds and communicate their messages without such mundane things as mouth movement! OK, OK, fine...due to the fact that GW has been localized into six languages thus far, we felt that our development time was better spent creating more content rather than expending the time and effort to lip-synch dialogue to various languages. We'll continue to refine the immersion of the story, and having more realistic facial animation is definitely something we'll look into for the future.
Read this interview here: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144221&did=1
I totally agree with this, because I'd rather have content than having graphics
I'd rather see a WORKING and FUN game than something that's more graphical.
GG: Because [they] have the amazing ability to emit sounds and communicate their messages without such mundane things as mouth movement! OK, OK, fine...due to the fact that GW has been localized into six languages thus far, we felt that our development time was better spent creating more content rather than expending the time and effort to lip-synch dialogue to various languages. We'll continue to refine the immersion of the story, and having more realistic facial animation is definitely something we'll look into for the future.
Read this interview here: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144221&did=1
I totally agree with this, because I'd rather have content than having graphics
I'd rather see a WORKING and FUN game than something that's more graphical.
RTSFirebat
They should keep it how it is, its funny when you see some ingame movies and the lips are moving:
Frost Gate Mission:
Player: "Rurik! No!"
Rurik: "Go, get them to Kryta"
It just seems funny how there is no emotion of the players faces and they don't move their lips
Frost Gate Mission:
Player: "Rurik! No!"
Rurik: "Go, get them to Kryta"
It just seems funny how there is no emotion of the players faces and they don't move their lips
The_Janitor
I'm fine without the lips moving and all, just think that it would look a bit cooler though. But yeah.. it'll take awhile if they decide to do it. I say, AN go work some more on the sequel.