When I first got here, I would buy items out of the sell forums with almost no problems. It was alot easier, cheaper and more reliable than trying to buy something in the game.
But the problem I'm getting (and usually its with the greens) is that people wont hold up their end of the deal. If you put down a starting bid, or a buy out price, that's fine. Infact, I encourage you to do so. I am not a rich person, I spend my time in PVE having fun as opposed to grind farming. The only thing I bother to farm are Charr Hides. So I rely on buying things here, or in the game to get the weapons and supplies I want.
I bid what I can, and if its not enough, then I'm out of luck. But what gets to me is what I've been getting lately.
I'll see an item that has no requirement for a bid. It also has no "I will not sell if the price is not good enough" listed. Then when it becomes apparent that I am the high bidder and its not enough for them, they decide to edit in that they wont sell to my bid, or that they will only sell for a set ammount. And they do this after my bid. And right around the time the auction should be ending.
Am I wrong to be pissed off at this? I realize we have the trading rater system now, and I could simply just rate them badly. But it seems only logical to me, that if you dont add in those requirements before hand, you need to just suck it up and take what was offered.
Its not right to rip people off, but if I'm bidding as much as I can, and I'm the only one bidding, then its wrong to up the price because they arent happy.
The Sell Forum... *rant*
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Lag Hell
well, i would understand why you would be quite put off and i dont blame u, but if the price for an item is off wat the person expects, he has the right not to sell. theres nothing u can do abbout it
Arcanis the Omnipotent
then they should mark what they expect from the beginning, or they take what's bid.
Lag Hell
well in normal sales, the seller usually puts the starting price lower than their reserve and keep the reserve hidden, to attract more bidders
Akhilleus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
Am I wrong to be pissed off at this? I realize we have the trading rater system now, and I could simply just rate them badly. But it seems only logical to me, that if you dont add in those requirements before hand, you need to just suck it up and take what was offered.
i see ur side, tho i disagree with it.
the most common reason for omitting a minimum bid but posting a "reserve" statement (i reserve the right not to sell, yadda yadda) is so the bid will get activity.
bidding for the item is half the fun.
the most common reason for omitting a minimum bid but posting a "reserve" statement (i reserve the right not to sell, yadda yadda) is so the bid will get activity.
bidding for the item is half the fun.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Yes, bidding is fun. But when the bidding ends and the guy isnt happy with the low bid, then he decides to make his reserve known.
At which point no one else bids, and I'm screwed out of an item.
At which point no one else bids, and I'm screwed out of an item.
Sanji
You didn't get screwed out of anything, the seller obviously isn't satisfied with your offer and isn't any more obligated by the Trade Forum Guidelines to respect any bids he doesn't want to than he would be in game.
The only thing you can do is lower his trader rating, which you already mentioned in your post.
This is really more appropriate for Site Feedback than anything else, since this will only be solved by changing the Trade Forum Guidelines.
The only thing you can do is lower his trader rating, which you already mentioned in your post.
This is really more appropriate for Site Feedback than anything else, since this will only be solved by changing the Trade Forum Guidelines.
Arturo02
that's cause most people are crappy salesmen/women.
Rate them badly and they will go away.
Rate them badly and they will go away.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Yeah, tried that last night. The Trade Rating system went down with the server upgrade.
unienaule
I generally expect people to not make noobish offers on stuff, like 1k for an axe grip of enchanting +20%. When such offers are made, I generally ignore them. Except for one time when i got a 1k offer for a 5/1 Vamp String, then accidentally talked him up to 50k.
Akhilleus
yeah, if you're going to make hidden reserves a break in the rules, then lowballing should be too.
when someone sais no minimum on an item like an 8 15>50 fellblade, they arent expecting someone to start off with 1k, and if by some fluke you win the item, you should not expect them to SELL it for 1k, because you yourself know damn well you wouldnt in the same situation.
as soon as bidders show common courtesy, sellers do too.
when someone sais no minimum on an item like an 8 15>50 fellblade, they arent expecting someone to start off with 1k, and if by some fluke you win the item, you should not expect them to SELL it for 1k, because you yourself know damn well you wouldnt in the same situation.
as soon as bidders show common courtesy, sellers do too.
Arturo02
Quote:
Originally Posted by unienaule
I generally expect people to not make noobish offers on stuff, like 1k for an axe grip of enchanting +20%. When such offers are made, I generally ignore them. Except for one time when i got a 1k offer for a 5/1 Vamp String, then accidentally talked him up to 50k.
How do you expect to haggle if you don't start low?
Slimcea
Why not simply state a minimum bid? You could simply put it at 10% of current market prices, at that price, surely there would be interest in it, and you'd prevent totally crappy lowball offers. There's simply no reason not to put in a minimum price (heck, even 10 times merchant price might serve the purpose) except plain laziness on the part of the seller.
Got to agree with Arcanis here. The Sell forum as I see it now is indeed a terrible mess. The following are some of my observations (primarily from a buyer's viewpoint), and they piss me off sometimes.
Auctions with no stated ending time. I could simply never understand this. Why not state an ending time? The seller doesn't lose anything - he doesn't have to sell if bids don't interest him at the ending date, and a new thread can simply be started with unsold items. The buyer can then know for how long he needs to hold the money he put in on the auction or when to wait up to, and not simply wait around forever in hope of the auction actually ending.
Sellers who simply disappear off the face of their earth. No in game names left, PMs not replied to, threads not updated for weeks or more. If you're not going to bother to check back on your auction once in a while, why start it?
Sellers who sell in-game. Most of the time, I have no issue with that at all, but PLEASE at least check back to see if the leading C/O is higher than your in-game offer before selling. Or if you've sold the item in-game, at least have the decent courtesy to mark it as sold on your auction so buyers' don't go bidding on missing items.
Reserves as well. Please state that there are reserves IF ANY. Hidden reserves are fine with me, but please let me know that they EXIST, and if my bid has made the reserve or not, instead of simply letting me think that I might get that item.
Now, I'm not going to deny that all buyers are saints (that's a rant for another day), but if sellers would actually make the effort to make things easier for buyers, half the problems running rampant would have been solved easily..
Got to agree with Arcanis here. The Sell forum as I see it now is indeed a terrible mess. The following are some of my observations (primarily from a buyer's viewpoint), and they piss me off sometimes.
Auctions with no stated ending time. I could simply never understand this. Why not state an ending time? The seller doesn't lose anything - he doesn't have to sell if bids don't interest him at the ending date, and a new thread can simply be started with unsold items. The buyer can then know for how long he needs to hold the money he put in on the auction or when to wait up to, and not simply wait around forever in hope of the auction actually ending.
Sellers who simply disappear off the face of their earth. No in game names left, PMs not replied to, threads not updated for weeks or more. If you're not going to bother to check back on your auction once in a while, why start it?
Sellers who sell in-game. Most of the time, I have no issue with that at all, but PLEASE at least check back to see if the leading C/O is higher than your in-game offer before selling. Or if you've sold the item in-game, at least have the decent courtesy to mark it as sold on your auction so buyers' don't go bidding on missing items.
Reserves as well. Please state that there are reserves IF ANY. Hidden reserves are fine with me, but please let me know that they EXIST, and if my bid has made the reserve or not, instead of simply letting me think that I might get that item.
Now, I'm not going to deny that all buyers are saints (that's a rant for another day), but if sellers would actually make the effort to make things easier for buyers, half the problems running rampant would have been solved easily..
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhilleus
yeah, if you're going to make hidden reserves a break in the rules, then lowballing should be too.
when someone sais no minimum on an item like an 8 15>50 fellblade, they arent expecting someone to start off with 1k, and if by some fluke you win the item, you should not expect them to SELL it for 1k, because you yourself know damn well you wouldnt in the same situation.
as soon as bidders show common courtesy, sellers do too. Yeah, but it depends on a person really. If someone bids 1K, it might not be because they dont want to spend that much, it might be because they really dont have much to spend.
Giving people the benefit of the doubt is something no one wants to do apparently.
when someone sais no minimum on an item like an 8 15>50 fellblade, they arent expecting someone to start off with 1k, and if by some fluke you win the item, you should not expect them to SELL it for 1k, because you yourself know damn well you wouldnt in the same situation.
as soon as bidders show common courtesy, sellers do too. Yeah, but it depends on a person really. If someone bids 1K, it might not be because they dont want to spend that much, it might be because they really dont have much to spend.
Giving people the benefit of the doubt is something no one wants to do apparently.
huh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
Yeah, but it depends on a person really. If someone bids 1K, it might not be because they dont want to spend that much, it might be because they really dont have much to spend.
Giving people the benefit of the doubt is something no one wants to do apparently. Do you really deserve the item then if thats all you can afford? Its like going to the rune trader and offering 2k for a superior absorption rune because thats all I have to spend. Of course the trader isn't gonna sell it to me. I would rate the traders' prices as a sort of a buyout as you're confirmed of getting the item. If there's a buyout on the item on auction, then you should be entitled to it once you meet the price. But I guess thats not the part you're not happy about.
Giving people the benefit of the doubt is something no one wants to do apparently. Do you really deserve the item then if thats all you can afford? Its like going to the rune trader and offering 2k for a superior absorption rune because thats all I have to spend. Of course the trader isn't gonna sell it to me. I would rate the traders' prices as a sort of a buyout as you're confirmed of getting the item. If there's a buyout on the item on auction, then you should be entitled to it once you meet the price. But I guess thats not the part you're not happy about.
Shadowdaemon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
then they should mark what they expect from the beginning, or they take what's bid.
yeah exactly, if you expect 100k for something, then start the bidding at 100k
and dont think the bad rating thing will work, all they will do is give you a bad rating back, ive tried it on people who make bids they have no intention of keeping, of course now the ratings arent working, so it doesnt matter
hopefuly we will get an auction house in GW soon, the dumb frog wouldnt give a straight answer on that, although they made it clear that a BARD class might be coming, i just hope i can auction my stupid instruments without much trouble
and dont think the bad rating thing will work, all they will do is give you a bad rating back, ive tried it on people who make bids they have no intention of keeping, of course now the ratings arent working, so it doesnt matter
hopefuly we will get an auction house in GW soon, the dumb frog wouldnt give a straight answer on that, although they made it clear that a BARD class might be coming, i just hope i can auction my stupid instruments without much trouble
Akhilleus
you wanna know why most sellers dont put in thier "reserves" (a minimum bid and reserve are COMPLETLY different)? because all the lowball newbs flame thier thread for the price being too high, and it ends up getting closed.
the minimum bid simply exists to keep people from doing the following:
"i bid 1,000gp!"
"i bid 1,001gp!"
"i bid 1,002gp!"
it cuts out all the people who simply want to waste everyones time because they think its cute to offer absolute crap offers.
but if the seller posts the minimum bid at 100k that gets rid of these people, the reason a reserve is not posted is because thats the MINIMUM amount you will sell the item for, and if its posted, people simply hug that number and bid in small incriments, or flame it for being what they think is too high.
since the VAST majority of people on this site lowball everything to death, if someone posts a reserve they might as well save themselves a headache, not post a reserve, and post nothing but a b/o instead.
the best way a legitimate trade should be done is a minimum (or no minimum) bid is placed, then once the reserve is hit, the seller sais "the auction will go on for so much longer, and the b/o wins, if the b/o is not hit in that timeframe then the item will close to the highest bid" (thats how i carry out MY auctions) rather than keeping a hidden reserve, making a timed auction, and when the price isnt hit they yank the item. but like i said, due to the incessant lowballing seen here by many people, most sellers options are drastically limited.
the minimum bid simply exists to keep people from doing the following:
"i bid 1,000gp!"
"i bid 1,001gp!"
"i bid 1,002gp!"
it cuts out all the people who simply want to waste everyones time because they think its cute to offer absolute crap offers.
but if the seller posts the minimum bid at 100k that gets rid of these people, the reason a reserve is not posted is because thats the MINIMUM amount you will sell the item for, and if its posted, people simply hug that number and bid in small incriments, or flame it for being what they think is too high.
since the VAST majority of people on this site lowball everything to death, if someone posts a reserve they might as well save themselves a headache, not post a reserve, and post nothing but a b/o instead.
the best way a legitimate trade should be done is a minimum (or no minimum) bid is placed, then once the reserve is hit, the seller sais "the auction will go on for so much longer, and the b/o wins, if the b/o is not hit in that timeframe then the item will close to the highest bid" (thats how i carry out MY auctions) rather than keeping a hidden reserve, making a timed auction, and when the price isnt hit they yank the item. but like i said, due to the incessant lowballing seen here by many people, most sellers options are drastically limited.
Blue Steel
The real problem right now is the sliding (actually more like "collapsing") economy. People expect old economy value for their items, and they hold out far too long trying to get a little more for their shiny thing, and realize many days later that their item won't get higher offers, and then go back to the old top offer and it is no wonder that those people retract their bid or say it has lapsed: value is eroding every single day. If it is worth far less today than yesterday, it surely isn't worth what a person bid on it a week ago.
The problem you are seeing, Archanist, is what attorneys and other professional negotiators call "irrational emotional attachment." Sellers still think of their items in terms of old economy value and prices, so they don't sell even though they will never get better offers, and they often demand "no lowballs" but then don't get any offers at all. Not much you can do about that: hidden reserves are okay (wise, when you want activity in the thread but know that some absurd bids will certainly be made) and having a short time frame on your auction may not be an option when so many people use this forum that your "24 hour" auction may be completely lost on page 17. My advice is to bid what you are willing to pay and then wait. I can't tell you how many times I placed a bid that 2 or 3 people went on to beat, but the seller held out for more, then finally came back to people and one by one the bids were retracted until he came back to me and I happily paid what I had originally bid. If the seller decides to keep the item, so be it: I keep a lot of mine. But if she really needs inventory space or money, she may eventually come back to you and give in to reality and sell you the item.
Though you didn't ask, here are a few tips for getting good value in a buyer's market if you are selling:
My very few auctions are exceptional items, and they are ecto only. Example, http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=67638
There are a lot of reasons why.ecto only auctions are fantastic for ensuring a reasonable bid increment ecto only auctions appeal to the wealthy people who buy high end items ecto only auctions are more secure trades that do not require trust or moderation when you cannot hold anymore gold anywhere, ecto is the only way to go And here are a couple of my auctioning secrets:low ball bids and off topic discussion are good things, generating interest and keeping the thread bumped I always try to stick in a few things that are very hard to value or that reliably get a few low ball bids on purpose to generate bumps on my thread (good choices are unusual shields or HoD swords) keep your auctions to a couple of themes and only around a dozen items set reasonable buyouts (everyone wants the most possible, but people decide whether you are expecting too much on the basis of your buyout prices on the items that they can value, even if you have some items they cannot value; plus it helps to have a few things bought out quickly to show that you are selling for somewhat reasonable prices) set your own buyouts, not buyouts your friends told you to use: how much do you really want, regardless of whether you might have been able to get more? Pick an amount that you know someone would take and you can be willing to live with
The problem you are seeing, Archanist, is what attorneys and other professional negotiators call "irrational emotional attachment." Sellers still think of their items in terms of old economy value and prices, so they don't sell even though they will never get better offers, and they often demand "no lowballs" but then don't get any offers at all. Not much you can do about that: hidden reserves are okay (wise, when you want activity in the thread but know that some absurd bids will certainly be made) and having a short time frame on your auction may not be an option when so many people use this forum that your "24 hour" auction may be completely lost on page 17. My advice is to bid what you are willing to pay and then wait. I can't tell you how many times I placed a bid that 2 or 3 people went on to beat, but the seller held out for more, then finally came back to people and one by one the bids were retracted until he came back to me and I happily paid what I had originally bid. If the seller decides to keep the item, so be it: I keep a lot of mine. But if she really needs inventory space or money, she may eventually come back to you and give in to reality and sell you the item.
Though you didn't ask, here are a few tips for getting good value in a buyer's market if you are selling:
My very few auctions are exceptional items, and they are ecto only. Example, http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=67638
There are a lot of reasons why.ecto only auctions are fantastic for ensuring a reasonable bid increment ecto only auctions appeal to the wealthy people who buy high end items ecto only auctions are more secure trades that do not require trust or moderation when you cannot hold anymore gold anywhere, ecto is the only way to go And here are a couple of my auctioning secrets:low ball bids and off topic discussion are good things, generating interest and keeping the thread bumped I always try to stick in a few things that are very hard to value or that reliably get a few low ball bids on purpose to generate bumps on my thread (good choices are unusual shields or HoD swords) keep your auctions to a couple of themes and only around a dozen items set reasonable buyouts (everyone wants the most possible, but people decide whether you are expecting too much on the basis of your buyout prices on the items that they can value, even if you have some items they cannot value; plus it helps to have a few things bought out quickly to show that you are selling for somewhat reasonable prices) set your own buyouts, not buyouts your friends told you to use: how much do you really want, regardless of whether you might have been able to get more? Pick an amount that you know someone would take and you can be willing to live with
dsmith1wsc
Great tips from many posted here. I dont think ppl should get upset with hidden reserves, as someone stated earlier - starting low and not stating reserve gets the thread interest and low bids are free bumps. Low ball bids are annoying, but they keep ppl bumped. If I state hidden reserve i may not get a single bid. Dont get mad, the reality is if u want some of the higher end items u should go out and earn the appropriate money for the item. I think many ppl dont state reserves because they dont know the fair price for the item they are selling. My biggest complaint are the lowballers who try to pm me ingame every ten minutes acting as if they gave me a very fair price.
Funki
great tips, gonna apply them to my sell threads where possible
n0fairzer0
this lack of a minimum price REALLY ticks me off cause I'm on a very low buget and I kinda like to know if I can freaking afford something or if I'm wasting my time.
Funki
then look for ppl selling for fixed prices ........ in an auction the price is never certain
Arcanis the Omnipotent
except that it is certain to an extent, because people hide their reserves.
The point of this thread was not that low ball bid give you free bumps so you can get the price you want. Its the fact that people who only get low bids then suddenly turn around and say "Well, I'm not selling for that, even though its as high as the bid went."
The auction went to its conclusion, then the seller didnt like the fact he wasnt getting what he expected and refuses to sell. Well you know what? Too bad. Apparently people didnt want that item as bad as you figured, and you got a low bid because of it. Dont like it, dont auction.
If someone bids all the money they have, and you call it a low bid, its like spitting in their face and calling them a cheat.
The point of this thread was not that low ball bid give you free bumps so you can get the price you want. Its the fact that people who only get low bids then suddenly turn around and say "Well, I'm not selling for that, even though its as high as the bid went."
The auction went to its conclusion, then the seller didnt like the fact he wasnt getting what he expected and refuses to sell. Well you know what? Too bad. Apparently people didnt want that item as bad as you figured, and you got a low bid because of it. Dont like it, dont auction.
If someone bids all the money they have, and you call it a low bid, its like spitting in their face and calling them a cheat.
Akhilleus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
except that it is certain to an extent, because people hide their reserves.
The point of this thread was not that low ball bid give you free bumps so you can get the price you want. Its the fact that people who only get low bids then suddenly turn around and say "Well, I'm not selling for that, even though its as high as the bid went."
The auction went to its conclusion, then the seller didnt like the fact he wasnt getting what he expected and refuses to sell. Well you know what? Too bad. Apparently people didnt want that item as bad as you figured, and you got a low bid because of it. Dont like it, dont auction.
If someone bids all the money they have, and you call it a low bid, its like spitting in their face and calling them a cheat. imagine arcane, or anyone that is poor, that you find an 800k item...an item that you know goes for a standard 800k, and you dont put a minimum bid on it, because you're sick of all the rich guys who put 500k minimum bids, and you want to give poor people at least some oportunity to bid on the item, thinking surely, even cheap people will be willing to meet your 500-600k reserve, because thats still 30% under its realistic potential value. now imagine that because of the over abundance of threads like "WTS 14>50 12 req spatha!!!" your 800k item is pushed to page 5 within an hour, and the people who would GLADLY pay 800k NEVER see it; and you're stuck with 100k offers from people who were admiring your item, and thought they'd be cute (or in some cases courteous in starting off the bidding with free low-ball bumps) by offering low amounts. then a week later, your item is on page 93 and only half a dozen offers have been made. are you going to sell your one good item for 1/8th the value simply because people did not SEE it, and all the poor guys didnt extend you the courtesy of even giving you a REAL offer? most likely not, and you shouldnt expect a high-powered seller to do the same.
its not always a matter of it not being worth that much, its very often (especially here) a matter of the right people not seeing the item they want for sale, simply because items drop off page 1 so ridiculously fast.
if you really want the item so badly, and your winning bid is under the sellers reserve, ask them what the reserve is before you start whining, ask them "hey, what WOULD you sell the item for? because i'm actually interested in purchasing it." but no, people dont do that, they raise a stink that the seller wont give them the item for a ridiculous price, simply because they think its cute to give absurd offers for weapons they know damn well are worth far, far more. many, many times in my life i've had sellers pull an item on me because the bid wasnt high enough; and my solution is pay the reserve, the seller sells the item for a reasonable amount, and you get the item for cheaper than market value; everyones happy, and if you or any buyer is unwilling to meet the reserve it simply shows that you had no intention of making a reasonable offer in the first place, and you dont deserve to have a winning bid anyway. conversly, if the seller is unwilling to sell the item for any reserve less than the b/o, then they are the ones being discourtious, and im sure this may be the case with many; but next time simply ask what the reserve is, and who knows, you may get the item anyway.
The point of this thread was not that low ball bid give you free bumps so you can get the price you want. Its the fact that people who only get low bids then suddenly turn around and say "Well, I'm not selling for that, even though its as high as the bid went."
The auction went to its conclusion, then the seller didnt like the fact he wasnt getting what he expected and refuses to sell. Well you know what? Too bad. Apparently people didnt want that item as bad as you figured, and you got a low bid because of it. Dont like it, dont auction.
If someone bids all the money they have, and you call it a low bid, its like spitting in their face and calling them a cheat. imagine arcane, or anyone that is poor, that you find an 800k item...an item that you know goes for a standard 800k, and you dont put a minimum bid on it, because you're sick of all the rich guys who put 500k minimum bids, and you want to give poor people at least some oportunity to bid on the item, thinking surely, even cheap people will be willing to meet your 500-600k reserve, because thats still 30% under its realistic potential value. now imagine that because of the over abundance of threads like "WTS 14>50 12 req spatha!!!" your 800k item is pushed to page 5 within an hour, and the people who would GLADLY pay 800k NEVER see it; and you're stuck with 100k offers from people who were admiring your item, and thought they'd be cute (or in some cases courteous in starting off the bidding with free low-ball bumps) by offering low amounts. then a week later, your item is on page 93 and only half a dozen offers have been made. are you going to sell your one good item for 1/8th the value simply because people did not SEE it, and all the poor guys didnt extend you the courtesy of even giving you a REAL offer? most likely not, and you shouldnt expect a high-powered seller to do the same.
its not always a matter of it not being worth that much, its very often (especially here) a matter of the right people not seeing the item they want for sale, simply because items drop off page 1 so ridiculously fast.
if you really want the item so badly, and your winning bid is under the sellers reserve, ask them what the reserve is before you start whining, ask them "hey, what WOULD you sell the item for? because i'm actually interested in purchasing it." but no, people dont do that, they raise a stink that the seller wont give them the item for a ridiculous price, simply because they think its cute to give absurd offers for weapons they know damn well are worth far, far more. many, many times in my life i've had sellers pull an item on me because the bid wasnt high enough; and my solution is pay the reserve, the seller sells the item for a reasonable amount, and you get the item for cheaper than market value; everyones happy, and if you or any buyer is unwilling to meet the reserve it simply shows that you had no intention of making a reasonable offer in the first place, and you dont deserve to have a winning bid anyway. conversly, if the seller is unwilling to sell the item for any reserve less than the b/o, then they are the ones being discourtious, and im sure this may be the case with many; but next time simply ask what the reserve is, and who knows, you may get the item anyway.
kawaii_bat
I think they should reset the Sell and Buy forum.
It's just plain ugly and messy.
Clean up the rules and make sections:
Perfect Weapons (With perfect mods)
----Sections of items worth 50, 100 and more than 100k
Near Perfect Weapons (1-2 points off)
Random (Anything over 2 points off or interesting items)
Upgrades
Components
I think buyers will have less trouble finding what they want specifically.
And avid sellers usually post one type of weapon or quality of weapon on these forums when they do.
It's just plain ugly and messy.
Clean up the rules and make sections:
Perfect Weapons (With perfect mods)
----Sections of items worth 50, 100 and more than 100k
Near Perfect Weapons (1-2 points off)
Random (Anything over 2 points off or interesting items)
Upgrades
Components
I think buyers will have less trouble finding what they want specifically.
And avid sellers usually post one type of weapon or quality of weapon on these forums when they do.
Jade
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawaii_bat
I think they should reset the Sell and Buy forum.
It's just plain ugly and messy.
Clean up the rules and make sections:
Perfect Weapons (With perfect mods)
----Sections of items worth 50, 100 and more than 100k
Near Perfect Weapons (1-2 points off)
Random (Anything over 2 points off or interesting items)
Upgrades
Components
I think buyers will have less trouble finding what they want specifically.
And avid sellers usually post one type of weapon or quality of weapon on these forums when they do. I like this idea. The only problem that I see with it is the 6 months it would take the morons (like the guys that spam the talk channel and not trade channel to sell thier stuff) to put thier items in the proper section.
It's just plain ugly and messy.
Clean up the rules and make sections:
Perfect Weapons (With perfect mods)
----Sections of items worth 50, 100 and more than 100k
Near Perfect Weapons (1-2 points off)
Random (Anything over 2 points off or interesting items)
Upgrades
Components
I think buyers will have less trouble finding what they want specifically.
And avid sellers usually post one type of weapon or quality of weapon on these forums when they do. I like this idea. The only problem that I see with it is the 6 months it would take the morons (like the guys that spam the talk channel and not trade channel to sell thier stuff) to put thier items in the proper section.
Slimcea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhilleus
imagine arcane, or anyone that is poor, that you find an 800k item...an item that you know goes for a standard 800k, and you dont put a minimum bid on it, because you're sick of all the rich guys who put 500k minimum bids, and you want to give poor people at least some oportunity to bid on the item, thinking surely, even cheap people will be willing to meet your 500-600k reserve, because thats still 30% under its realistic potential value. now imagine that because of the over abundance of threads like "WTS 14>50 12 req spatha!!!" your 800k item is pushed to page 5 within an hour, and the people who would GLADLY pay 800k NEVER see it; and you're stuck with 100k offers from people who were admiring your item, and thought they'd be cute (or in some cases courteous in starting off the bidding with free low-ball bumps) by offering low amounts. then a week later, your item is on page 93 and only half a dozen offers have been made. are you going to sell your one good item for 1/8th the value simply because people did not SEE it, and all the poor guys didnt extend you the courtesy of even giving you a REAL offer? most likely not, and you shouldnt expect a high-powered seller to do the same.
its not always a matter of it not being worth that much, its very often (especially here) a matter of the right people not seeing the item they want for sale, simply because items drop off page 1 so ridiculously fast.
if you really want the item so badly, and your winning bid is under the sellers reserve, ask them what the reserve is before you start whining, ask them "hey, what WOULD you sell the item for? because i'm actually interested in purchasing it." but no, people dont do that, they raise a stink that the seller wont give them the item for a ridiculous price, simply because they think its cute to give absurd offers for weapons they know damn well are worth far, far more. many, many times in my life i've had sellers pull an item on me because the bid wasnt high enough; and my solution is pay the reserve, the seller sells the item for a reasonable amount, and you get the item for cheaper than market value; everyones happy, and if you or any buyer is unwilling to meet the reserve it simply shows that you had no intention of making a reasonable offer in the first place, and you dont deserve to have a winning bid anyway. conversly, if the seller is unwilling to sell the item for any reserve less than the b/o, then they are the ones being discourtious, and im sure this may be the case with many; but next time simply ask what the reserve is, and who knows, you may get the item anyway. Except for the fact that most auctions seem to run forever. I don't know about you, but unless the item is one that comes by in a century (figuratively) or so, I'll wait at most 2 to 3 days before moving my money out to look for other stuff.
Also, sellers should just be honest about it. Listing the c/o is fine, but FFS, please also let us know if you're looking for MORE or not. It doesn't need to be a fixed reserve price, heck, just a simple message by C/O saying "... looking for more..." would be sufficient to know how much I should be bidding, and if my bid stands a chance of taking the item at all.
its not always a matter of it not being worth that much, its very often (especially here) a matter of the right people not seeing the item they want for sale, simply because items drop off page 1 so ridiculously fast.
if you really want the item so badly, and your winning bid is under the sellers reserve, ask them what the reserve is before you start whining, ask them "hey, what WOULD you sell the item for? because i'm actually interested in purchasing it." but no, people dont do that, they raise a stink that the seller wont give them the item for a ridiculous price, simply because they think its cute to give absurd offers for weapons they know damn well are worth far, far more. many, many times in my life i've had sellers pull an item on me because the bid wasnt high enough; and my solution is pay the reserve, the seller sells the item for a reasonable amount, and you get the item for cheaper than market value; everyones happy, and if you or any buyer is unwilling to meet the reserve it simply shows that you had no intention of making a reasonable offer in the first place, and you dont deserve to have a winning bid anyway. conversly, if the seller is unwilling to sell the item for any reserve less than the b/o, then they are the ones being discourtious, and im sure this may be the case with many; but next time simply ask what the reserve is, and who knows, you may get the item anyway. Except for the fact that most auctions seem to run forever. I don't know about you, but unless the item is one that comes by in a century (figuratively) or so, I'll wait at most 2 to 3 days before moving my money out to look for other stuff.
Also, sellers should just be honest about it. Listing the c/o is fine, but FFS, please also let us know if you're looking for MORE or not. It doesn't need to be a fixed reserve price, heck, just a simple message by C/O saying "... looking for more..." would be sufficient to know how much I should be bidding, and if my bid stands a chance of taking the item at all.
Akhilleus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill The Cat
Sellers should either let the buyers know what your minimum acceptable price is, or keep an updated "Reserve Not Met" or "Reserve Met" line in the post without revealing what that reserve is.
I find it very upsetting when I have to pass up the opportunity to buy an item in-game (because I want to do the right thing and honour the high bid I've currently got in on an item), just to find out that the seller isn't willing to sell for that high bid.
The solution isn't to buy the in-game item and retract your bid - that's a lousy thing to do to a seller, especially if your high bid may (but of course you don't know this) be enough to meet the seller's minimum requirement. Refer to LBS' post about bidders not being required to honour a bid of theirs that's already been beaten - the seller could end up being stuck with an item that they wanted to unload.
SOLUTION: We need to do away with the element of secrecy in auctions. If there's a reserve, sellers should clearly state that fact in the auction and keep potential bidders updated as to whether or not that reserve's been met. Sellers win because nobody will expect them to honour a bid that clearly doesn't meet a reserve, and buyers win because they know that they can spend their money elsewhere if their existing bid doesn't meet the reserve.
Pretty simple, if you ask me...
i agree to some degree.
while i dont think constantly updating it is necissary, at least post something saying "once the reserve is met, i will say so" that way people can assume its not met untill the seller posts it. and if they take thier weet time and post too late that the reserve has long since been met, and people ahve withdrawn bids, thats thier fault for not watching the bids at all.
there is a happy medium, but i just dont think that people should expect sellers to show the courtesy of selling an item when people wont give the courtesy of making real offers.
and conversly, if a seller does not post that they ahve a reserve, and the auction closes, too bad, you should give the item up.
in another instance one of my friends got a bad trader ranking from an angry guy cuz he accidentally posted a b/o for an item at 115k, instead of 1150k, and the guy got infuriated that he wouldnt sell, i mean, comeon, common sense please, its a typo and it was obvious the guy knew what it was worth.
thats what the trading forums need; common sense and common courtesy.
I find it very upsetting when I have to pass up the opportunity to buy an item in-game (because I want to do the right thing and honour the high bid I've currently got in on an item), just to find out that the seller isn't willing to sell for that high bid.
The solution isn't to buy the in-game item and retract your bid - that's a lousy thing to do to a seller, especially if your high bid may (but of course you don't know this) be enough to meet the seller's minimum requirement. Refer to LBS' post about bidders not being required to honour a bid of theirs that's already been beaten - the seller could end up being stuck with an item that they wanted to unload.
SOLUTION: We need to do away with the element of secrecy in auctions. If there's a reserve, sellers should clearly state that fact in the auction and keep potential bidders updated as to whether or not that reserve's been met. Sellers win because nobody will expect them to honour a bid that clearly doesn't meet a reserve, and buyers win because they know that they can spend their money elsewhere if their existing bid doesn't meet the reserve.
Pretty simple, if you ask me...
i agree to some degree.
while i dont think constantly updating it is necissary, at least post something saying "once the reserve is met, i will say so" that way people can assume its not met untill the seller posts it. and if they take thier weet time and post too late that the reserve has long since been met, and people ahve withdrawn bids, thats thier fault for not watching the bids at all.
there is a happy medium, but i just dont think that people should expect sellers to show the courtesy of selling an item when people wont give the courtesy of making real offers.
and conversly, if a seller does not post that they ahve a reserve, and the auction closes, too bad, you should give the item up.
in another instance one of my friends got a bad trader ranking from an angry guy cuz he accidentally posted a b/o for an item at 115k, instead of 1150k, and the guy got infuriated that he wouldnt sell, i mean, comeon, common sense please, its a typo and it was obvious the guy knew what it was worth.
thats what the trading forums need; common sense and common courtesy.
Swehurn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhilleus
thats what the trading forums need; common sense and common courtesy.
Now that would be utopian, but it's probably not going to happen any time soon.
You're right - the seller wouldn't have to update a "Reserve Not Met" line often...they would only have to change that line once - when the reserve WAS met.
Want to avoid stupid lowball bids? Post a minimum. This doesn't have to be equal to the reserve - it can be low enough to encourage some action on the thread, but high enough to avoid having people bid 1 gold for your 15^50 fell. Just don't be offended when people bid at the minimum. No minimum posted? Don't be offended by lowball bids.
Sure, buyers might have an idea what the item is worth, but it's human nature to go after the best deal possible. Let's say you walk into your local computer store to buy a new monitor, and you see the one you really want. You know it's worth $1000, but there's no price tag on it, so you ask the salesman what it costs. If he replies, "Make me an offer", are you going to offer him $1000? I think the average consumer would start off with a lowball offer in the hopes of scoring a great deal on it.
But your point about common sense and common courtesy is dead-on...if sellers gave enough information to buyers, and if buyers took their heads out of their behinds, we would all be one big happy GW family.
Just my two cents.
You're right - the seller wouldn't have to update a "Reserve Not Met" line often...they would only have to change that line once - when the reserve WAS met.
Want to avoid stupid lowball bids? Post a minimum. This doesn't have to be equal to the reserve - it can be low enough to encourage some action on the thread, but high enough to avoid having people bid 1 gold for your 15^50 fell. Just don't be offended when people bid at the minimum. No minimum posted? Don't be offended by lowball bids.
Sure, buyers might have an idea what the item is worth, but it's human nature to go after the best deal possible. Let's say you walk into your local computer store to buy a new monitor, and you see the one you really want. You know it's worth $1000, but there's no price tag on it, so you ask the salesman what it costs. If he replies, "Make me an offer", are you going to offer him $1000? I think the average consumer would start off with a lowball offer in the hopes of scoring a great deal on it.
But your point about common sense and common courtesy is dead-on...if sellers gave enough information to buyers, and if buyers took their heads out of their behinds, we would all be one big happy GW family.
Just my two cents.
Swehurn
...and on a completely different thought, can vbulletin be configured to force a poster to enter an end date for their auction (might as well also use that date as an auto-close trigger for the thread) before the post goes up? There seems to be a fair number of auctions with no end date posted other than "when the bids get high enough"...
Wilheim Eversmann
i think your case is very common, because every seller scare ppl to low ball them....but some of the trader with a "must go" statement should be punished if they dun wanna sell the item to the highest bidder, i have bidde on a mursaat horn bow for a low price (coz there is not starting price and its said must go..) after few days, when the auction ended, i pm the seller, but he said my bid was not even reach his "reserve price"!!!! lol
so that is not a "must go" auction....or am i wrong?? if i am correct, i think all "must go" should be restricted by rules.
on the other hand, sellers who didn't say must go still have the right to reserve the item for themselves....i always set a b/o price or even a fixed price sale, they usually wellcomed by the customers who really want them and also keep out from low-ballers^^
so that is not a "must go" auction....or am i wrong?? if i am correct, i think all "must go" should be restricted by rules.
on the other hand, sellers who didn't say must go still have the right to reserve the item for themselves....i always set a b/o price or even a fixed price sale, they usually wellcomed by the customers who really want them and also keep out from low-ballers^^
Shadowdaemon
thats why i ALWAYS have a starting bid on my items, and if someone bids only that, then i sell it for that bid, i dont know how many rares/greens i have sold for only 1k, and i sold a max crystalline for 86k, i am sure i could have got more, but i ended the auction when i said i was going to, thats what the bid was, so i sold it, alot of these people have an idea in their head that their stuff is so valueable, when it really isnt, i think it is a good idea to shop around for what your looking for on here, if some fool wants 30k for some particular item, you might find it a few pages back for only 5k, so let these greedy morons who dont know how to set a starting price keep their items
as a general rule, if it says anywhere on the thread that they reserve the right not to sell, i dont even look at it, because they will most likely be expecting way to much for their stuff
as a general rule, if it says anywhere on the thread that they reserve the right not to sell, i dont even look at it, because they will most likely be expecting way to much for their stuff
Wilheim Eversmann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowdaemon
as a general rule, if it says anywhere on the thread that they reserve the right not to sell, i dont even look at it, because they will most likely be expecting way to much for their stuff
yea~totally agree, i do the same too^^ coz (reserve the right=not willing to sell) but i my case, i love this line too, but in a different way, i will set all my c/o, b/o and reserve clearly and make that statement...its just because i want to keep it for myself for some reason other than the price
e.g. keep it for friends or other blah blah reason....
so i think statement like (i won't sell it if the price is not right)=not worth viewing it, coz they may simply want a PC for that item or rip ppl off^^
e.g. keep it for friends or other blah blah reason....so i think statement like (i won't sell it if the price is not right)=not worth viewing it, coz they may simply want a PC for that item or rip ppl off^^
EternalTempest
I agree, did one auction but I set minimum price and listed what it was and stated I may take lower bids if it's below the min. If it = or went over (which it did) I honor them.
Best advice is there is a disclaimer, about reserve right not to sell, ignore them.
Best advice is there is a disclaimer, about reserve right not to sell, ignore them.
valtonray
i feel the same way, i don't have the patience to spam all the cities with wts and wtb msgs. so i use boards like this one,(which is a lot easier than rpgtraders.net's setup) anyways i'll usually put in the current acceptable offer or the minimum i'm willing to sell for upfront, and leave my in game sn incase i'm needed. anyone that farms (and yes i do, but most of my items are for guild members or broken down for parts) can easily afford to let something go for a little less than the going rate, as easy as these boards makes it to sell.