The Hand of Death Ideas

PvE GvG Idea for Guilds by Hand of Death and Zhou Feng

I was talking with a young man in GW while we played he goes by the name in game of The Hand of Death. While we where talking we came up with some ideas to add more conflict to GW. This is just a sketch. It consists of making Guilds more Influence/Political based capable of controlling Lands, Subverting other Guilds, Banding/Alliances with Other Guilds... in short a lot of Guild vs Guild stuff other then just combat for recognition.

This idea is right now under works as the time of writing this. Who knows maybe it will get implemented maybe not. Some may believe it is a complicated or complex idea. Keep in mind no one is forced to use these features. There are just another way for conflict in the GW World.

Plot of Lands

The main idea at work. Guilds are now capable of controlling Plots of Lands. These Plot of Lands are not "random" but instead predetrmined by the Map. A maximum number of Plots of Lands are available in certain map sections (ie Kryta, Ascalon) Only Guilds with a proper Guild Hall can benefit of controlling Plots of Land. In order to gain control of a Plot of Land Guilds interested must vie for it. This is determined in some way. Specifics are still on the works.

When a Guild succesfully controls a Plot of Land it gains Resources from this Plot of Land. This is translated into gold and crafting materials as means of a Tribute the land dwellers pays to the Guild Hall. Each Plot of Land however has a Manteinance Rate. This Manteinance Rate determines the Plot of Lands Feelimgs for the Guild Hall overall. Therefore:

Higher Tribute/Lower Manteinace = Higher Chance for Land to rebel. (Oppresed People)
Lower Tribute/Higher Manteinance = Lower Chance for Land to rebel. (Happier People)
Normal Tribute/Normal Manteinace = Moderate Chance for Land to rebel. (Moderate People)

Theres a max number at which tribute is paid so Guild Halls cannot over tax a plot of Land. keep in mind however that at a maximum Tribute payment Plot of Lands feelings plummet faster. The more Plot of Lands the Guild controls however the higher the overall Manteinance becomes. Remeber IF Manteinance is not paid the Lands Feelings plummet faster and they can Rebel. A Land that Rebels does not initially become open for control. At this point before the Plot becomes free the Guild has one last chance to retain control but success rate is averaged depending on Guild Fame and how the overall Land feeling is (the lower it is after rebelling the lower the success is) In this last chance the Guild can use ONE special Guild only "Influence" skill. Like subvert population. Or reward population or even brainwash population. Hell we could even put Torture population for those sadists out there :P. Each skill has a diffrent effect. THIS IS STILL AN OPTIONAL FEATURE STILL DISCUSSED! It might just be Land Rebels and Plot is lost for simplicity. Keep in mind that the better the Manteinance is the Plot of Lands feelings grow higher which entitles to bonus resources including rare items and crafting materials.

A Guild can challenge another Guild for control of a Land if both have proper Guild Halls. The challenged Guild can refuse BUT this translates as losing face to your Plots AND the challenger gets a free chance to "harass/raze" Land. if both decide to combat for Land then the GvG map is taken to a map location non random which represents that Lands characteristic (all farm plots would have a farm type Land to fight on) Defenders start out with an outpost manned depending on Plots Feelings. The Higher Feelings the Plot has for Guild the higher Defense will be a to a certain Limit. Defenders killed in this skirmish cannot be revived. Attackers gain depending on their amount of resources (Ties into my Guild Politic Ideas) diffrent war machines up to a certain limit. (I WANT WAR! YES WAR!) THIS IDEA IS ALSO ON THE WORK! DONT SAY IT SUCKS GIVE CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS!

Nice idea ;p

this game should have other kinds of fun things to do too besides only fighting.

i think the idea is too complicated.
guild wars has a great pick up and play game style, and i think this might hurt it a bit.
i also think that this might drive some guilds away from GvGing.

thats just my opinion, nice thought though

Interesting ideas... I'm curious about some aspects.

What do you mean by renting out land to other guilds? Like, if they can't afford a sigil for their own hall, they become sort of tenant farmers until they can scrape together the funds?

What are the "random lands" you refer to? Are they separate from the hall, require a different sort of sigil to acquire?

Who controls the resources the lands provide?

see main post please for answers but to avoid confusion

renting out Land is just that. A Guild with proper Hall can choose to rent out any of its Plot of Land properties to any Guild even without Guild Halls. This Guild will pay the renter a Fee and in exchange benefit from the Lands resources. While the Land is rented out the Guild that has it gets a pre determined bonus. Manteinance also beomces predetrmined. Renting affects Population Feelings of Land.

These Lands are predetermined by Map. Ascalon and Kryta would have a maximum amount of Lands for which Guilds can vie control of. They dont require a Sigil to obtain but only Guilds with Guild Hall can vie for them. Specifics of how to gain control of land are still in works.

This feature is optional. Only Guilds with proper Guild Halls can participate in it. And its totally optional. Just that Guilds THAt do participate gain resources and benefits. GvGing will then become two disticnt ones. Normal one and GvGing for Control of Lands. This gives you even more game options for those bored with the other options.

My Guild Politic Idea is for Bigger GvG battles as in various GvG teams. WAR YES WAR!

LOL way to make it seem like I didn't read the original post!

What I meant by "who controls the resources," is what particular individual? The Guild Leader? Some kind of committee of officers? Held in trust for the guild at large by Power of Attorney?

Sounds a little bit like Civilization or something.

i dont think it would be very good, but as i said - nice thought!

you know what, i have no problem with this, so im gonna do an amazing thing. something that will shock all readers, causing some of them to soil themselves:
/signed

Reminds me of Sim city's tax system

Not an RTS

/not sign

It's like Civ III! Quick, research to Modern Armor before they can get Strategic Bombers! We must introduce a Tech Tree as well!

ZOMG, THEY RESEARCHED NUCULER WEAPONS ZOMG! Where's PRESIDENT BUSH?!?!?!

And they're the Ottomans too.....I always knew they were up to no good! QUICK! GET MISSILE SHIELD! DIVERT ALL INCOME TO TECHNOLOGY ZOMG!

OMG, Face it. The Germans are the best race ever. I mean, Scientific AND militaristic? You totally lose. Unless I'm the Japanese, then you UBER lose since I just spam government changes.

Yes, I play Civ III WAY TOO MUCH. Too bad.

Face it. It's an mmoRPG. Role-Playing Game. Not an mmoRTS.

Agreed and understandable. However theres not much RTS involved. And its more of a PvE GvG thing.

Lands just give gold and craft benefits. Also its having other maps to fight on. Guild Halls already have "defenders" and the Guild Lord. In these combat maps its almost the same thing except only the defenders get an outpost. The attackers can get catapults though just like normal GvG. There isnt much of RTS just a neat way to add more conflict to the game. And by the way THERE are MMORPGs that rely heavily on politics and land control. I thought you knew that :P

It does? Wierd never played it. I did play a few MUDs that use a similar but much more complex system but its designed primarily to create war between player controlled cities.

I dont c how this game can b changed into an RTS no matter how much RTS values u add to it. For one u r not creating units which is the main part of an RTS and u r not creating buildings. If u own land how is that changing the whole thrid person gameplay. Well it isnt and like zhou said over and over its optional. U gain benefits from the guild owning land and some new maps for gvg would be another nice gain. And the profit made from lands will probably bring guilds into gvg just for the benefits of getting money. U r not making units and building new buildings. The only RTS feature being added is resource gain and what in real life people dont get wages? Well this is like adding wages to the game. There had to say something.

do this yourself next time and maybe i'll actually read your post

i genuinely love this idea. after all this game is called guild wars.

edit: i still like the general idea, but maybe working pve into it. like the undead attack if in kryta and you have to defend it

Wow U did that for me Y thank U but since this isnt really a formal paper there is no need to right like I am righting one. But seriously it was my in put and I don't need you to correct things like that.

the forum rules state otherwise buddy, take a glance through them sometime

I find your ideas intriguing. Perhaps you have an informational pamphlet I might peruse.......



seriously, I like this idea as an optional addition to the current game. gives it spice

Heh. Ill I have now is what is posted here and in the main ideas thread. The whole point is this system:

Should work with the new Guild Vault system being implemented. Its just a benefit a Guild can get for their coffers as well as gain crafting materials which they can use/sell/trade.

I believe there should be something else to do. I mean this can give some sort of fun incentive for guilds to gvg in pve but not the usual gvg. NOTICE this gvg is not a standard gvg and doesnt count towards Ladder. so even more reason to engage in it:

a) You risk nothing IF you dont own a land, and helps to practice for standard gvg. IF you own a land its an incentive to do the best you can even though it isnt a proper "ranked" match.

b) Having land not only gains benefits but there should be other bonuses as well like recognition (something spoken in a PvE GvGing thread) or something on those lines.

c) It offers new more varied maps to fight on about eight more new maps would be nice representing diffrent locations.

d) It offers, although similar, a diffrent style of GvG combat: Attacker vs Defender seeing as unlike proper GvG there are NOT two outposts, rather just one. Id have to work out details on rezzes but for now I think neither group has auto rezzes. Or attacker can have a small "attack" camp like the ones attackers set up when sieging their enemies. More on this later.

e) It doesnt hurt to have other gvGing options too.

Finally slow it down with Hand hes just 15. Although no excuse for lack of reading rules :P Hes just a young man cut him some slack.

Ahhh I hadnt thought of that possibility! It would be sort of "random" quests for the Land villagers. Like charr razing your land or undead in kryta. Or maybe brigands. It shouldnt happen too often though. Also we could add an option when land rebels to go directly and give the npc villagers a whooping. That could be another PvE thing to engage in.

Nukers could finally live up to their name though.

'I'm using Fat Man on Undead Lich!'

Thank you but Kakumei you didn't have to be so rude to me. I mean who reads rules at my age. Just tell me if I'm doing something against forum rules and I'll change it but don't shove it in my face. As for the idea I will talk more about it to Zhou before I add to it.

You are aginst this idea too?

Seriously I dont see why people dont like the idea.

'Oh itll be like an RTS' Just for adding something else to GvGing other then the normal one?

I don't see how adding one RTS aspect to an RP makes the game an RTS. For a game to be an RTS it must have much more than land ownership. We are not adding things like produce these units or build these buildings it is just something that may be a good compliment to the game.

I don't recall saying I was against it.....

Just indifferent to certain aspects of it I guess.

Actually, I think it'd be fun. Just thought I'd add in a little humor.

Or...

You can just enslave the people so there is no possible way for them to rebel while you get rich and fat

>> this is GW not a Castle sim like Stronghold.<<

on a more related note, this is a bad idea simply because it's so far and away from what guild wars is

it would be ridiculous to add something like this in

From now on if you agree with the idea just
/Sign and what would you change, suggestions you want to make, how would you improve the system.

If you dont
/Unsigned AND give me REAL reasons of why the system wouldn't be a good idea (Saying it will turn GW into an RTS is a real lousy reason. Give me a much better argument because I know what an RTS is and this system isnt turning it into an RTS) Support you counter arguments with real reasons. Saying its a bad idea cause it isnt GW without saying why its not a real reason for me. Also post up your own idea of what system you think PvE could use to enhance GvGing or offer incentive for GvGing. (No the Ladder is not enough for PvE Guilds. They couldnt care less.)

Well then why don't you suggest something viable to enhance PvE Guilds? The truth is Guilds where implemented to fight between each other and to fight for control of HoH and recognition (Ladder) PvE Guilds are not all into PvPing, fighting each other or anything. They couldn't care less about Ladder. What then incentive is there for the PvE Guilds enjoyment? None really.

This simple idea was to enhance PvE GvGing because it would be for something PvE Guilds would like: Gold, Items, Rare Drops. Unless PvE Guilds dont enjoy these things either... Also this GvG is a non standard one so it wouldnt affect their rating. Guilds in PvE would then be less wary of trying this approach. Also having more GvG maps would have been nice.

How is fighting over land GW unrelated. Wouldn't you have the slightest thought that guilds would fight for something more than a rank. It would be like roleplaying a part of the guild's army. You are one soldier in the army, not a bunch which takews away from that RTS aspect, and it is possible to roleplay in an army. I've done it in other games so why can't it be done in this. If I was part of a guild and since the guilds seem in the story line very greedy to carry on a war that long there should have been higher objectives than to see who was the best. The guilds fought to defend their home land and if they were defending it then they owned it or fought for someone who owned and it they fought under. Even if anyone dislikes the idea there is no reason to say it is totally bad because it would not be a requirement to do.

it's not that the idea itself is bad, it's just a bad idea for guild wars

there is nothing currently in guild wars that's even remotely like this, and this idea would just feel entirely shoehorned in

its a reasonable idea but it might make GW too much like a tycoon game

Its quite possable that these plots of lands would be monopolized for a large majority of the time by the most experanced and competitive PvP players.
This idea rewards a select few people that are fortunate enough to beable to achive a plot of land.

The way I precieve the pvp aspect of this game, its a mixture of magic the gathering and a teambased FPS.
So in my mind, large scale battles would be confusing and fustrating because I would probably have trouble tracking and corrdinate the amount of action that would happen.

However, large scale battles are still enticing.
Though I dont care much for npcs in PvP matchs at all, I could image...

Alliance matches.
Accessable only at guildhalls.
With 2 teams of 8 on each side composing of atleast 2 or up to 4 guilds.
Multible task to accomplish.
Hordes of NPCs that you must resource.
Winner takes trip to a new armor crafter.
There you can purchase unique armor much like how fissure armor is set up.
The rare materals of this armor would drop in alliance maps through some sort of resourcing.

Now what we have here is a PvE rewarding PvP gametype.

Your not competing for fame, or ranks in the latter. These are PvP focused goals.
Your competing for a customized set of armor on your toon, which is a PvE focused goal.

PvE'ers would then have to shift into PvP mode to achive a PvE goal.
Whereas PvP'ers would just have another option to enjoy PvP.

Hm either I lost the post or forgot to post this.

Many people are ocncerned over the "control" mechanism. However I present an alternative which is borrowed directly from the manual. No longer do Guilds would control land... more like depending on their "status" their "influence spheres" will be better thus acquiring support from various lands... however theres a catch... influence is a fickle thing... and so is the lands support... so you dont own the land they just offer their support cause you are the next hot thing... but if someone is hotter they break support and go with that other person... something like this im working out the idea as an alternative... and dont come saying it isnt GW stuff cause this is straight from the manual and how Guilds influenced the people around them. And how their influence overlapped each other at times within places.

I was also thinking on the lines of guilds getting monopolies and one thing I figuered out was something that would discourage gaining control of many lands. I thought that for every land your guild owned the higher the maintenance cost for each land. For example if you owned two lands each land would have a maintenance cost of 2k each a week. Well your guild gets a third land. Now the maintenance cost for each land is 3k a week so soon owning to much lands maybe become unprofitable and there would be no sense in keeping them.

/signed

Some additions would be not to let guilds have more than say, 2 or 3 plots. That ways it would be fair. One thing i don't get is if one guild decided to challenge the land why not just wait until like midnight and attack when no one is there or when they don't have a good 8 person team. They would have to schedule an attack like, o how 'bout tuesday the 13th at 3, can we attack you then? Will you be free for a butt whooping? I still like the idea but i don't know how you would do this.

Ha-ha. Thats true I didn't think about scheduling, but after reading I think i may have an answer. I thought about the rebellions. The way I thought a rebellion would work was that it would start and depending on the size of it you would have a certain time limit to stop it. Well maybe for land challenging, one guild challenges another and that other guild has a time limit of a day to answer that challenge. If they don't the challenging guild has the right to attack the land without a guild team fighting. Of course there will still be oppostition from the lands inhabitants and maybe small armies but it shouldn't be overly hard to take with the challenging guild group and their fighting army. But I don't know we still have to talk about it.

sounds good to me.