i ran the R/W and it is brilliant, everybody seemed to think they were really bad. did anybody actually sit down and play with the builds?
http://www.1up.com/media?id=2348483
Anybody actually try the 1up builds?
Hanuman li Tosh
White Designs
Who would want to play such a garbage character?
Jenosavel
The R/W was one of the worst ones. Allow me to raise a few questions.
First off, it's obviously a PvP build, because if it were for PvE there'd be absolutely no reason not to run it as a W/R instead. The added AL is invaluable when on the front lines.
9 Tactics without a single Tactics skill? Cyclone Axe in PvP? When do key targets all clump up for you? Using an axe without 16 axe mastery? That's a hell of a hit to your damage.Ranger primary for Expertise? Ha! All of the attacks but Cyclone Axe (which I addressed above), use adrenaline not energy. Way to solve a problem that didn't exist...
The damage gained through Apply Poison doesn't even begin to compare to the damage lost in those 4 points of Axe Mastery and the usual 10 or so strength.
So... if by "brilliant" you mean "different" or "creative," then yeah, the R/W build is brilliant. However, I tend to view "brilliant" as meaning "effiecient" or "best option." The build is neither of those things.
First off, it's obviously a PvP build, because if it were for PvE there'd be absolutely no reason not to run it as a W/R instead. The added AL is invaluable when on the front lines.
9 Tactics without a single Tactics skill? Cyclone Axe in PvP? When do key targets all clump up for you? Using an axe without 16 axe mastery? That's a hell of a hit to your damage.
So... if by "brilliant" you mean "different" or "creative," then yeah, the R/W build is brilliant. However, I tend to view "brilliant" as meaning "effiecient" or "best option." The build is neither of those things.
Hanuman li Tosh
well i used it and it was brilliant. the tactics effects other (read descrip) skills and allows the use of a sheild, there are 2 stances which allow for +20% damage all the time, along with 45 hp and -2 damage. you never run out of adrenaline and can easilly spam all of your attack skills. anyway i actually tried it and my stats from g stats were 56 kills:3 deaths. thats why i asked if anyone else used it, you can 'theorycraft' all you want...
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Up
You may substitute Light of Dwayna for HoH PvP Builds
LMFAO 
As you can see, they were never serious about giving REAL builds
As you can see, they were never serious about giving REAL builds
AeroLion
The R/W was one of the worst build I've ever seen anywhere. Where did you win? Random Arena? Try that build in Tombs or GVG and see how quickly you are rendered useless.
Also, even if you were running in random, there are so many builds out there that would be much more effective that the crap Anet told to 1up. This isn't theorycraft. It's a fact.
Also, even if you were running in random, there are so many builds out there that would be much more effective that the crap Anet told to 1up. This isn't theorycraft. It's a fact.
Eonwe
All of those builds are actually quite terrible.
pagansaint
Quiet terrible.
Sword for a R/W.... And you BEGIN to have a build that works...
Sword for a R/W.... And you BEGIN to have a build that works...
BBoy_Manchild
R/W is good for random arena, but in team when they start bringing anti stance and removers this build is garbage, so if you wanna have a lil fun in lions arch arena this is the way to go, other then that, have fun being stomped like the ant
cookiehoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenosavel
First off, it's obviously a PvP build, because if it were for PvE there'd be absolutely no reason not to run it as a W/R instead. The added AL is invaluable when on the front lines.
9 Tactics without a single Tactics skill? Cyclone Axe in PvP? When do key targets all clump up for you?
So... if by "brilliant" you mean "different" or "creative," then yeah, the R/W build is brilliant. However, I tend to view "brilliant" as meaning "effiecient" or "best option." The build is neither of those things. 9 tactics for the sheild genius, I know it's not the best way to spend attributes, but there is why they did it.
AeroLion
And that's a ridiculously stupid reason to spend 9 points in an attribute outside of the primary profession. Stop trying to defend it like it was a good decision.
pagansaint
LoL.
Grab any req 4/5 shield with 10 some AL and a bonus and drop the extra points into Expertise.
It works rather well.
Grab any req 4/5 shield with 10 some AL and a bonus and drop the extra points into Expertise.
It works rather well.
Hanuman li Tosh
its amazing how many people will say something doesent work without trying it. its par for the course tho, ive been told that its impossible to win the hall with smite, iway, and ranger spike on these very forums. lol.
oh and 2 other things...
1. it doesent say builds gaurenteed to win the hall every time, it says "looking for a good character build? here a a few of arena nets favorites...". Probably becasue they have fun playing them...
2. GW is about teamwork, if you think one character build alone can win the hall or get your guild ranked GG.
oh and 2 other things...
1. it doesent say builds gaurenteed to win the hall every time, it says "looking for a good character build? here a a few of arena nets favorites...". Probably becasue they have fun playing them...
2. GW is about teamwork, if you think one character build alone can win the hall or get your guild ranked GG.
Arathorn5000
It's just plainly a bad build. Can you have success with awful builds in arenas? Of course. Can you have success with awful builds in HoH? Of course. But for reasons already pointed out, the alternatives to this build are so much better.
smurfhunter
actually, im reasonably sure a team with intelligent players and excellant teamwork can do quite well regardless of the build (assuming its not like thaaat bad)
but then why would you want to use worse builds than you could? doesnt make sense to me.
but then why would you want to use worse builds than you could? doesnt make sense to me.
Schorny
This build isn't the worst build ever. It does ok damage. It does fewer damage than a standard warrior - but the damage loss is not that big. So I think it won't matter that much in a good team.
You can easily prove that this build is bad, by doing a bit math. Calculate the damage this build does and compare it to a 'standard' warrior build.
You can easily prove that this build is bad, by doing a bit math. Calculate the damage this build does and compare it to a 'standard' warrior build.
Slade xTekno
The problem with R/W is that it is incapable of the Warrior's spike damage. Yes, it could run Eviscerate/Executioner's, but it doesn't have the Strength to make it work well.
R/Ws are best at consistant damage, like a sword would do. They can consistantly spam attack skills that add damage. If you run this next to a W/Mo Axe Spiker, you can easily take down a target.
A small note that someone may want to try; substitute your KD Hammer Warrior for a KD Hammer R/W that spams Irresistable Blow. Since the Protection Monk is now standard in most 8v8 builds, KD from the IB should be easy to do consistantly.
R/Ws are best at consistant damage, like a sword would do. They can consistantly spam attack skills that add damage. If you run this next to a W/Mo Axe Spiker, you can easily take down a target.
A small note that someone may want to try; substitute your KD Hammer Warrior for a KD Hammer R/W that spams Irresistable Blow. Since the Protection Monk is now standard in most 8v8 builds, KD from the IB should be easy to do consistantly.
BBoy_Manchild
i have tried every sort of r/w build i could think of, cause at one time i thought it was pretty fun being a ranger with their stances, until the time when people brought anti stances and i had my ass handed back to me more then i would their's back to them, R/W is garbage and thats that
pagansaint
LoL, haven't played some of the more niche and team oriented ones then I take it. 
beginners_luck
Best reason to play a R/W is for Throw Dirt and the extra energy for sword and hammer attacks like was mentioned. And the armor kicks ass against elemental damage. Otherwise, warrior's the way to go for melee in most cases.
Hanuman li Tosh
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
i have tried every sort of r/w build i could think of, cause at one time i thought it was pretty fun being a ranger with their stances, until the time when people brought anti stances and i had my ass handed back to me more then i would their's back to them, R/W is garbage and thats that
wow. i wonder why several top 20 guilds have one then? better get on the horn and let them know.
i never said they were the be all end all of builds, but people go out of their way to say they suck. thats the part that blows my mind.
i never said they were the be all end all of builds, but people go out of their way to say they suck. thats the part that blows my mind.
entropy
Umm they DO SUCK. The 1UP builds are just bad. "theorycraft"? Why in the world would you run cleave for eviscerate? And what is with people and them saying OMG the top 20 guilds run a R/W. Now I must create my UBERl33t version. The R/W could be the runner though a R/Me would do it better... I mean I don't go and look around for top 20 guilds and their builds but let me tell you taht I will bet my life on the fact that they don't run the 1up garbage.
JYX
Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by entropy
The R/W could be the runner
Or he could be a ranger who uses frenzy.
entropy
But the ranger has expertise why not use tigers fury??? The skill lockdown is a pain but its not that bad. What stance would the ranger use to cancel it out sprint? Then you might as well have run a warrior. You already mentioned it before against me but I mean cleave can't spike. Especially on a R/W I would definetley run eviscerate for the damage boost. Cleave is mroe dps but without 16 axe mastery its already a pretty weak spike.
JYX
Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
But the ranger has expertise why not use tigers fury???
You need 12 beastmastery to get tiger's fury to 10 seconds. If you use a choking gas or IA build...or both...then you will leave an extremely large window of opportunity in which your enemy can cast. You will want to boost wilderness survival high to make choking gas last long, which is why you can't spare much into beastmastery. The inability to use preps is also debilitating here for obvious reasons, Tiger's Fury is just too hard to synch with all your interrupt preps which you NEED up. Frenzy...or even Flurry helps.
Not that I recommend using a choking gas build anyway...but erm...a topic for another day...
Hanuman li Tosh
Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
Umm they DO SUCK. The 1UP builds are just bad. "theorycraft"? Why in the world would you run cleave for eviscerate? And what is with people and them saying OMG the top 20 guilds run a R/W. Now I must create my UBERl33t version. The R/W could be the runner though a R/Me would do it better... I mean I don't go and look around for top 20 guilds and their builds but let me tell you taht I will bet my life on the fact that they don't run the 1up garbage.
the obvious point being that if R/W just plain sucks then top 20 guilds would not run one. i never said they run the 1up build, i never said to copy your build from another guild. you would choose cleave instead of eviscerate becasue you can spam it twice as much.
Neo-LD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
the obvious point being that if R/W just plain sucks then top 20 guilds would not run one. i never said they run the 1up build, i never said to copy your build from another guild. you would choose cleave instead of eviscerate becasue you can spam it twice as much.
That is the kind of argument that only had a shred of kindof maybe validity in the spriti spamming era. Arguing that now is just silly, show me one good guild that uses a R/W (a non-bow R/W) oh wait, ther arent any.
If you would kindly use the search button there are at least 15 different threads about Warrior primaries vs R/W. Highly spirited debates, and plenty of better R/Ws than ANET's were posted. But they still sucked. Go use the search button and see ifyou can tell me why. (hint, look for my thread, "Disproving the R/W" read the first post) But ever since the pvpx update, when the age of spirits came to a close, there are no more threads like that. Why? Because QZ, the only thing in the meta-game which made R/Ws kind of maybe sort of almost worth it is now GONE. Seriously fella, get with the times. No one uses R/Ws anymore (finally) Especially not the top 20 guilds. lhurgrokoyv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
wow. i wonder why several top 20 guilds have one then? better get on the horn and let them know.
i never said they were the be all end all of builds, but people go out of their way to say they suck. thats the part that blows my mind. if you honestly think top 20 guilds use r/w in their builds, your sadly mistaken
VGJustice
oddly, I run a R/W that was somewhat similar to the 1up build. But, I use a sword, I spam many conditions (not just poison, like the 1up build), and I don't use either Frenzy or Storm Chaser.
I've noticed that I'll get treated only one of 2 ways when I PvP with this character: I'll either get ignored until much later, or they will do their best to take me out early. Not too sure why that is, I'm still a PvP newb, so take my words as you will. I've seen that the build can be VERY effective for spam poisoning, not on a single target, but by bouncing around between targets. If the healer isn't too bright, I can drain their energy by making them want to cure all the sudden poison. That, plus Bleeding and Blind, can make a Healer's job really annoying. But, yeah, the 1up R/W build had the wrong idea for that type. You should NEVER try to run a damage build with a Melee Ranger. You are FAR too fragile for that. entropy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
the obvious point being that if R/W just plain sucks then top 20 guilds would not run one. i never said they run the 1up build, i never said to copy your build from another guild. you would choose cleave instead of eviscerate becasue you can spam it twice as much.
I don't look at top 20 guild builds and why would they give them out??? Do you play with them often? Cleave sucks in general. Special conditions apply to everything. IF you really want to argue the cleave and eviscerate debate go and read all the posts in the Library of Wisdom section. There is a VERY long thread on it and you will see it. Stop comparing yourself or the 1up builds to the top 20 guilds. Its a Primary and secondary combo. IT does not mean they run the 1up shit. Which it is. Tell me exactly what they run their skills and attributes. Does it use cleave and a shield??? Does it use axe??? COME ON. The top 20 guilds are good but that does not mean that they are GODLY and that them using a certain combo means that it is great. They could be testing something out. I think you put too much reverence on them. And all I have seen in your posts are They run it so it must be good. Use you brain and your finger. Click the search and look.
Hanuman li Tosh
Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
all the time Cleave sucks in general. Special conditions apply to everything. IF you really want to argue the cleave and eviscerate debate go and read all the posts in the Library of Wisdom section. There is a VERY long thread on it and you will see it. so every person who says cleave doesent suck in that thread is dead wrong according to you. why would you ask me to read a thread that you admittedly dont agree with? Stop comparing yourself or the 1up builds to the top 20 guilds. i never did either Its a Primary and secondary combo. IT does not mean they run the 1up shit. i never said they did. i said they run a R/W. someone said R/W was useless so i pointed out its not Which it is. Tell me exactly what they run their skills and attributes. Does it use cleave and a shield??? Does it use axe??? COME ON. your back or your chin? thats obviously what you want The top 20 guilds are good but that does not mean that they are GODLY and that them using a certain combo means that it is great. yeah, but they got to the top 20 by being closed minded pricks, right? i cant see why a top 20 guild would run a test build in rated gvg They could be testing something out. if only one guild ran it once, i wouldnt post about it. I think you put too much reverence on them. And all I have seen in your posts are They run it so it must be good. really? you should read the whole post then. Use you brain and your finger. Click the search and look. that last statement is hilarious. i can also do a search that will come up with threads that say you cannot win and hold the hall with iway, smite, or ranger spike. already done 2/3 of those. i did use my brain and my finger. i used my brain to be open minded and try something new and my finger to execute the actions. and finally, this is the internet. i really dont care who thinks i am a 'noob' or not. i saw grubby come into netol once and people called him a noob. at the time he had just won several thousand dollars in a tournament. i'm not quite as good at GW as he is at wc3 but the point stands. no matter what i say people will flame me and call me names. i put this post here to see if anybody else actually tried the builds, voice my opinion, and maybe get one person to try something different. if you dont like my opinion thats fine. but since you admittedly havent played any top 20 guilds and you havent tried what i voiced my opinion about it makes your case weak at the very best. entropy
LMAO
 Hall is not hard to get to. Get any decent group on vent or just halfway decent and you will make it their with a balanced group. I have Held hall with IWAY. Its harder but it can be done. Wait so I haven't played with top20 guilds i suck? I have played against top 20 guilds. And BTW ranking doesn't mean much at the moment. The guild wars ladder is really really really bad at determining who is good or who is bad. The ladder system sucks in general. If you want to debate the ladder system anytime I'd be pleased to. Hmm so searching is a bad thing? This is GW not WC3. You stated that the 1up builds were brilliant. They sucked. Trying to pull it onto whether R/W's are good or bad.. well start a new thread. All I see in your post is condescendance. Its in the last paragraph. I never ever say someone is noob. I say you are wrong and why. If you don't agree run the 1up garbage. I am simply stating my opinion as well  What is with the comment on my chin??? The thread in the Library of Wisdom is by Ensign in IQ. ITS math simple math. If you see something wrong in his equation message him. DPS just does not kill competent teams. Spike does. Eviscerate spikes and cleave is bad in general. Find a special way to use cleave good for you. You just made a sucky skill halfway decent. And the opinion by ensign was that cleave sucked. My last point is that Why should I try half the builds on here. I don't have time to try and run them all. But its pretty obvious the 1up builds sucked. So I don't try them. I run funky weird and sometime stupid builds but I never put it off as brilliant. edit* I'd also like to add that the only way you justify the R/W is by saying the top20 guilds run it. Now WHY do they? Tell me its role and how it fufills it. I guess from playing everyday with them you should know it. Also Give me how many top20 guilds run it. You keep making these extraordinary statements with no proof or even any logic. BTW did you even read the Eviscerate/Cleave debate thread and I mean the whole thing? Spam cleave twice as much. Well it hurts your other adrenal skills as well. If you have no idea what I'm talking about actually read it. Cause I'm pretty sure you haven't And feel free to post in it. I have many recent posts in it so quote me all you like.
kawaii_bat
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
i have tried every sort of r/w build i could think of, cause at one time i thought it was pretty fun being a ranger with their stances, until the time when people brought anti stances and i had my ass handed back to me more then i would their's back to them, R/W is garbage and thats that
I was in the Thirsty River mission and the only tank we had was a R/W and she kicked monster butt!
I thought: ''wow that's interesting never though about an evasive warrior.'' But I would indeed understand that such a thing is more difficult to play in PvP
Neo-LD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
that last statement is hilarious. i can also do a search that will come up with threads that say you cannot win and hold the hall with iway, smite, or ranger spike. already done 2/3 of those. i did use my brain and my finger. i used my brain to be open minded and try something new and my finger to execute the actions.
and finally, this is the internet. i really dont care who thinks i am a 'noob' or not. i saw grubby come into netol once and people called him a noob. at the time he had just won several thousand dollars in a tournament. i'm not quite as good at GW as he is at wc3 but the point stands. no matter what i say people will flame me and call me names. i put this post here to see if anybody else actually tried the builds, voice my opinion, and maybe get one person to try something different. if you dont like my opinion thats fine. but since you admittedly havent played any top 20 guilds and you havent tried what i voiced my opinion about it makes your case weak at the very best. would you care to enlighten us as to exactly why that R/W or any version close to that R/W is good? I mean, comon, its not like people here are debating weather they are an "almost" or a "close but..." or a "pretty good" its more like most good people around here think they are the biggest joke since mass gyros. You have to realize that the majority of people dont want to here more R/W arguments, and particularly dont want someone (someone who they percieve to be an upstart scrub) to come in here with an R/W that he thinks is the best thing since sliced bread. You are fighting uphill. There are people to convince. Hint: dont play innocent and say "i only wanted to discuss these jeez cmon man it was a simple question. if that were the case you wouldnt have bothered to defend their viability when people voiced their disapproval. there must be some logic behind it, but most people around here just dont get why it is preferable to use a character with substandard damage, substandard skills and a substandard elite. perhaps because, as you claim, you have played with the top 20 guilds, you could explain it to us, instead of standing on top of your soapbox and shouting "THEY ARE GOOD THEY ARE GOOD THEY ARE GOOD".
JYX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh and finally, this is the internet. i really dont care who thinks i am a 'noob' or not. Everybody thinks you're a noob.
Quote:
i saw grubby come into netol once and people called him a noob. at the time he had just won several thousand dollars in a tournament.
Grubby is a noob. He used shadow hunter first and got his ass handed to him. Showtime handed it back to him at the champs when he thought he'd be clever and use Blademaster. Spirit_Moon hand it to him, just casually. Its all downhill for him now, 4K can't compete on the same level. Going to Korea to play pro?...I guess Korea has 5 new manual labourers now.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
if you dont like my opinion thats fine. but since you admittedly havent played any top 20 guilds and you havent tried what i voiced my opinion about it makes your case weak at the very best.
No I think the fact you took a really bad build, then tried everything under the sun to justify it. From saying its fun, to saying it can be effective, to saying its a team player...that makes your case look weak. Speaking of weak, Grubby's a whiner as well as an underachiever.
pagansaint
Except he lost the popular vote.
edit: Except for when the people had to choose who they actually wanted. edit: and 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot! 
Neo-LD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagansaint
edit: and 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot!
including that one?
unienaule
Flamewar ftl.
FrogDevourer
Closed as pointless.
@Hanuman li Tosh: you earned a second bad note on your profile with this stupid picture. Next time will be the third and last note before we hit the ban button. Consider yourself warned. |
