its so unfair
Frost
are u serious u only have one ranger pve char?
Sol_Vie
If you want a good place for rangers... try UW. Traps > Aatxes. Too bad they can't have an AI that makes >_<! =o! and such faces.
Mathias Deathwater
You know what the awesome thing about being an underappreciated class is? The fact that the teams that DO choose you are much more likely to be good, thinking people instead of a noob team that just wants the obvious team build. I'm a water ele and you would not believe how many teams say "What? You're not a nuker? *kick*" But the teams that realize how useful water eles and other underappreciated builds can be usually know what they're doing.
Sol_Vie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias Deathwater
You know what the awesome thing about being an underappreciated class is? The fact that the teams that DO choose you are much more likely to be good, thinking people instead of a noob team that just wants the obvious team build. I'm a water ele and you would not believe how many teams say "What? You're not a nuker? *kick*" But the teams that realize how useful water eles and other underappreciated builds can be usually know what they're doing.
Very true. Although not 100% of the time.
Very true. Although not 100% of the time.
evillorderic
Actually, I play as a Me/E and I have been having a much easier time finding a group, all I have to advertise is 'Fast casting nuker LFG farming', and usually someone replies. The good thing is, I have enough energy to last me anyway, and I can get off way more AoE spells in a faster time frame with fast casting. 
Monica Angelina
I don't know why you even want to complain anyway. The drop rates seems to have reduced to the point that my last 3 runs netted exactly zero green item for the entire party. 
I'm sure people are starting to lose interest in the whole thing.
Amused Observer
Quote:
Originally Posted by evillorderic
Actually, I play as a Me/E and I have been having a much easier time finding a group, all I have to advertise is 'Fast casting nuker LFG farming', and usually someone replies. The good thing is, I have enough energy to last me anyway, and I can get off way more AoE spells in a faster time frame with fast casting.
I should try that ad tag sometime. Do you think it'll work in Tombs too?
I should try that ad tag sometime. Do you think it'll work in Tombs too?
Guizzy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
are u serious u only have one ranger pve char?
I only have one Mesmer PvE char.
You see; what drove me to do the PvE portion was the story and the exploration. I don't want to do all the same missions again just so I get a "popular" character to SF.
And I feel many do feel the same. And we should be able to get into groups just as well, considering we are usually much better players than the average Whammo (mesmers, necros and rangers requiring MUCH MUCH MUCH better field awareness than tanks).
Currently, it is not the case because of ignorance. People don't know how useful the mesmer, necro or ranger is in a team. If he sees the enemy life go down, it surely must be because of the Warrior or Ele! Of course! That can't be because the Mesmer took the Monk mob out, because the Ranger spiked him or because the Necro cursed it! Everyone knows all Mesmers, Necros and Rangers do is twiddle their thumbs while the rest kills the monster! It's a matter of public record!
You see; what drove me to do the PvE portion was the story and the exploration. I don't want to do all the same missions again just so I get a "popular" character to SF.
And I feel many do feel the same. And we should be able to get into groups just as well, considering we are usually much better players than the average Whammo (mesmers, necros and rangers requiring MUCH MUCH MUCH better field awareness than tanks).
Currently, it is not the case because of ignorance. People don't know how useful the mesmer, necro or ranger is in a team. If he sees the enemy life go down, it surely must be because of the Warrior or Ele! Of course! That can't be because the Mesmer took the Monk mob out, because the Ranger spiked him or because the Necro cursed it! Everyone knows all Mesmers, Necros and Rangers do is twiddle their thumbs while the rest kills the monster! It's a matter of public record!
Mathias Deathwater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica Angelina
I don't know why you even want to complain anyway. The drop rates seems to have reduced to the point that my last 3 runs netted exactly zero green item for the entire party. I'm sure people are starting to lose interest in the whole thing.
About that, I think the drop rates for you have something to do with how many you have gotten. I go to SF with Savio and Unien a lot and I usually get at least one green and they rarely do. They have both told me that the exactly same thing happened for them, so I think that A-net may have set up some kind of anti-long-term-farming code that makes it harder for people to get greens after a long time of farming. Just a thought. 
EternalTempest
It's simliar to the old 5 man smite team in UW for farming. I've been in one and when built correctly can tear through the mobs... that being said...
I have to admit we had 4 green items drop >< with Final Asstault mission active.
I do agree with OP... I don't want to farm actually, I want to beat those 3 fire djin >< and most of the pugs are farming / 5 member farms from what I've seen.
I have to admit we had 4 green items drop >< with Final Asstault mission active.
I do agree with OP... I don't want to farm actually, I want to beat those 3 fire djin >< and most of the pugs are farming / 5 member farms from what I've seen.
Sister Rosette
Dear OP: Maybe they just didn't want a whiner.
If you get this bitchy when you don't get a group, I'd hate to
see what you do when someone gets the Green Drop you want.
If you get this bitchy when you don't get a group, I'd hate to
see what you do when someone gets the Green Drop you want.
zeuseden
ok.. i only got a r/n so far .. everytime i go into a game , i would sick to a character for very very long. and frankly speaking i am only interested in bow user in all mmos i got into. but i am getting sick. btw i am a experienced trapper. but u know ..farming in uw all the time doesnt feed my hunger and curiosity of sorrow funance. well i know... ranger = misfit at terrians like sf.
likewise, ranger is overpowered in uw.
and i got over it. well for me.. this is unbalanced. i rather quit the game.
this is one flaw i find in guild wars. and i really find this fatal. no hard feelings.
edit : this game aint worth the money and time to invest in. 2cents. jus like WoW
likewise, ranger is overpowered in uw.
and i got over it. well for me.. this is unbalanced. i rather quit the game.
this is one flaw i find in guild wars. and i really find this fatal. no hard feelings.
edit : this game aint worth the money and time to invest in. 2cents. jus like WoW
Maiyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
Funny how necros aren't wanted in Uw/Fow, but are in Sorrows.
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
Yeah, and to be honest... farming UW with rangers MUST be more profitable or at least AS profitable as hunting green items.
People, listen.. this is why if you want to be in farm groups.. you need well developed pve characters that are able to switch from one element to another for example with elementalist, from prot to heal, perhaps with some smite for monks, between a damage or stance tank, or between a battery/insane minion necro. As examples.
People are very specific about their builds for a reason. A ward elementalist is probably going to be more useful in an UW build.. running support. The function of elementalists in small groups is to deal the massive damage while the monks protect and heal, and the warrior stands up front keeping the elements collected.
Specific needs. It's not a personal slight, it's the fact that some things work in some situations and others just simply don't. A Me/N would be absolutely amazing in these groups. You just need to find a GOOD group, because they will know the value.
A LARGE amount of skills for all your characters is also required. Including elites...
That is my advice....
It's good to have a few "farming characters" because farming requires a lot of diversity :P
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
Yeah, and to be honest... farming UW with rangers MUST be more profitable or at least AS profitable as hunting green items.People, listen.. this is why if you want to be in farm groups.. you need well developed pve characters that are able to switch from one element to another for example with elementalist, from prot to heal, perhaps with some smite for monks, between a damage or stance tank, or between a battery/insane minion necro. As examples.
People are very specific about their builds for a reason. A ward elementalist is probably going to be more useful in an UW build.. running support. The function of elementalists in small groups is to deal the massive damage while the monks protect and heal, and the warrior stands up front keeping the elements collected.
Specific needs. It's not a personal slight, it's the fact that some things work in some situations and others just simply don't. A Me/N would be absolutely amazing in these groups. You just need to find a GOOD group, because they will know the value.
A LARGE amount of skills for all your characters is also required. Including elites...
That is my advice....
It's good to have a few "farming characters" because farming requires a lot of diversity :P
kawaii_bat
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuseden
dude.. when u see a class or 2 fail to fit in a team... common sense will tell u its getting unbalanced. u wanna flame? use some commen sense before u do it.
They aren't unbalanced at all!
Doesn't common sense also tell you about popularity and stereotypes?
Necromancers, Rangers and Mesmers are not unbalanced, their capabilities are just not understood by a majority of players who have not played them.
and the population of *said mentioned* players who don't try out these classes is growing because of this stereotype!
People who think that these classes are underpowered and unbalanced (which they aren't) actually just contribute to their unpopularity and the fact that they aren't used.
------
There is a lack of awe or encouragement for the accomplishments of Rangers, Necromancer and Mesmers because they also lack *evident and flashy* skills (everyone knows this).
This contributes to the lowering of their popularity greatly.
Doesn't everyone like being flatered for what they do?
entropy
Lol the Holy Trinity. Well just take henchies.... And rangers are useful and the classes are balanced decently at moment its just taht other people lack this knowledge. Its a game and a free one at that. People are going to be stupid or asses. LIFE=unfair
infernal
I usually don't have this problem. My guild is just a @chat away!
But when they aren't around..
As far as PUGs go, and regarding my own ranger; yeah, I've been burned.
Attempting an infusion run, my ranger was able to start building a group that had a War and a Mo, we were accepted into a larger group and then they kicked me and kept the War and Mo. That sucked!
It DID take a while longer but I finally did find a group and we had a good time.
As far as farming goes, I hate farming and I hate grinding! Haven't really had the need so far, but then I'm not wearing FoW or 15k armor either.
My two cents..
Infernal
But when they aren't around..
As far as PUGs go, and regarding my own ranger; yeah, I've been burned.
Attempting an infusion run, my ranger was able to start building a group that had a War and a Mo, we were accepted into a larger group and then they kicked me and kept the War and Mo. That sucked!
It DID take a while longer but I finally did find a group and we had a good time.
As far as farming goes, I hate farming and I hate grinding! Haven't really had the need so far, but then I'm not wearing FoW or 15k armor either.
My two cents..
Infernal
monk muffle
lol rangers arent very useful in sf plz tell me how they would help
whenver i go on farming trip this is what i do
4 man team i take 2monks,1tank,and 1 nuker,the monks can heal them and another
for 5 man i take 2monks,1 tank,1 nuker and 1 shutdown mes, backfire on them monk bosses and theyre dead in seconds and also interrupt pwns too
so... as u can see mesmers are useful here but... rangers do nuthing t
the end
(if ur so unhappy go to the UW were u belong rangers!)
whenver i go on farming trip this is what i do
4 man team i take 2monks,1tank,and 1 nuker,the monks can heal them and another
for 5 man i take 2monks,1 tank,1 nuker and 1 shutdown mes, backfire on them monk bosses and theyre dead in seconds and also interrupt pwns too
so... as u can see mesmers are useful here but... rangers do nuthing t
the end
(if ur so unhappy go to the UW were u belong rangers!)
bizarresk
now this was a nice example of stupidity
zeuseden
rangers can do alot. its jus that peeps like ya, monk muffle dont know how to use us. we can interupt and as well as dd. we can even soften up the mobs to make them easier to kill. but well guess sf aint a playfield for rangers. or the dev. didnt intend to put rangers in the sf picture:/
Medion
I have the same feeling as me being a ranger.
The problem IMO is that ppl actually don`t know what rangers are for. Ppl don`t seem to reallize that a ranger actually can do lots of dmg. (sometimes even more then an ele)
I don`t like farming with henchies, as I like the social aspect of this game, meeting other ppl.
I don`t know where all u ppl shouting 'forming group of non-wanted characters' are, but try come to european districts, as there are too few of them overthere
Eey, I might even try myself to make those groups.
The problem IMO is that ppl actually don`t know what rangers are for. Ppl don`t seem to reallize that a ranger actually can do lots of dmg. (sometimes even more then an ele)
I don`t like farming with henchies, as I like the social aspect of this game, meeting other ppl.
I don`t know where all u ppl shouting 'forming group of non-wanted characters' are, but try come to european districts, as there are too few of them overthere
Eey, I might even try myself to make those groups.
Shikaru
The only problem with PvE mesmers and PvE rangers is the fact that a large majority of them suck at what they do. That's not to say that there aren't any good PvE rangers or mesmers out there as I'm sure some of you on the forum are quite skilled with these two classes. For the most part, everytime I party with a Ranger or mesmer the experience has been bad. I get rangers who try to run interrupt using flat bows or mesmers using chaos storm on carvers instead of the casters. I have yet to see an interrupt ranger actually hit interrupt anything useful on a regular basis or see a shatter/interrupt from a mesmer.
Another fact is that most PuGs out there really do suck at playing this game but even the dumbest PuG can nuke given the right spells. As a basic fire nuker you need no field awareness and no timing. (for maximum damage output I guess you would need to cast spells in the right order but we'll ignore that) Basically all a nuker does is sit there and click his spells every few seconds and he'll have accomplished his role in the party. On the other hand a bad PuG playing a mesmer/ranger will hurt your team a lot becuase he's basically a dead weight.
Another fact is that most PuGs out there really do suck at playing this game but even the dumbest PuG can nuke given the right spells. As a basic fire nuker you need no field awareness and no timing. (for maximum damage output I guess you would need to cast spells in the right order but we'll ignore that) Basically all a nuker does is sit there and click his spells every few seconds and he'll have accomplished his role in the party. On the other hand a bad PuG playing a mesmer/ranger will hurt your team a lot becuase he's basically a dead weight.
VGJustice
I think we've had this argument before. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.
If a group wants to shun a Ranger or a Mesmer or whatever other class there may be, let them. It's their loss, not mine. I'll find another group and show them how powerful a Ranger actually can be.
Good gawd, I'm a melee Ranger and I can take on Flame Titans! I have no idea why people whine all the time.
If a group wants to shun a Ranger or a Mesmer or whatever other class there may be, let them. It's their loss, not mine. I'll find another group and show them how powerful a Ranger actually can be.
Good gawd, I'm a melee Ranger and I can take on Flame Titans! I have no idea why people whine all the time.
ratatass
Yes, its a chore in SoF beeing a ranger.
I go Barrage / beastmastery /Healing, buffed Pet and invite.
1. Cynn
2. Mhenlo
3. Lina
Works like a charm. Most green items from that group. Make sure you fire from above or a turn /obstruction if you can so your pet can start running. Also make sure you don't use too long of a range bow after engaging, so Mhenlo and Lina don't forget your pet. Stay in range, but not too close.
Can be tricky, but it is fun.
I go Barrage / beastmastery /Healing, buffed Pet and invite.
1. Cynn
2. Mhenlo
3. Lina
Works like a charm. Most green items from that group. Make sure you fire from above or a turn /obstruction if you can so your pet can start running. Also make sure you don't use too long of a range bow after engaging, so Mhenlo and Lina don't forget your pet. Stay in range, but not too close.
Can be tricky, but it is fun.
rowena
Nice henchies group. I have a monk and a nuker character, but i don't farm with them in sf, i prefer to go farming with my R/Mo. I just love to play a ranger. I usually use Devona , Mhenlo, Lina, pet. And yes, i like henchies, they follow orders, they don't complain and i don't have to wait hours for a group.
I think they don't steal the drops, like some people use to say, they have just they own drops. I have found very much green sets - all items from Fleshcleaver, Galigord, Thorgall, Grognar, Razorstone, Yakslapper, Rockmolder, Vokur, Morgriff, Villnar, Gargash. And 3 times Dragos Flatbow (not vampiric). And when some ranger wanted to come farm with me, i've always took him (i would take other classes as well, but i know just more rangers thanks UW trapping).
I have done all quests with henchies as a ranger, except the Orozar quests. With Orozar i had luck and have found a very nice group, but i would love to do Orozar more times, because some bosses can be find only in this quest. Preferably as a ranger, but it's hard to find a group for Orozar as a ranger, so i've tried with my monk the Orozar quest (but it's not so enjoyable like with my ranger) and u can be sure, when i make a group as a monk, i don't kick any rangers, mesmers or necros.
I think they don't steal the drops, like some people use to say, they have just they own drops. I have found very much green sets - all items from Fleshcleaver, Galigord, Thorgall, Grognar, Razorstone, Yakslapper, Rockmolder, Vokur, Morgriff, Villnar, Gargash. And 3 times Dragos Flatbow (not vampiric). And when some ranger wanted to come farm with me, i've always took him (i would take other classes as well, but i know just more rangers thanks UW trapping).
I have done all quests with henchies as a ranger, except the Orozar quests. With Orozar i had luck and have found a very nice group, but i would love to do Orozar more times, because some bosses can be find only in this quest. Preferably as a ranger, but it's hard to find a group for Orozar as a ranger, so i've tried with my monk the Orozar quest (but it's not so enjoyable like with my ranger) and u can be sure, when i make a group as a monk, i don't kick any rangers, mesmers or necros.
Makkert
I've done a few farmtrips lately in SF. When I lead the group I always asked for: Casterdisrupter (ranger or memser). And guess what? It was harder to get one then it was to get a monk, war, ele or minionmaster. What is worse, after the long time it took to find a casterdisrupter, 50% of the ones I have had in team weren't exactly great casterdisurpters....That isn't exactly an advertisement for the ranger / mesmer profession.
Juicey Shake
guildie farming groups for the win,
guild I'm in does nightly farming trips to SF [oro, FA, normal SF, whatever]
-- 2 monks, one prot, one heal.
-- 1 tank [W/whatever's needed, usually Mo]
--1 minion master nec
and after that it gets tricky, sometimes a mes, or a ranger, or another nec.
whatever we feel like trying out and whatever people feel like playing on, and you'd be suprised at how effective rangers can really be in there
guild I'm in does nightly farming trips to SF [oro, FA, normal SF, whatever]
-- 2 monks, one prot, one heal.
-- 1 tank [W/whatever's needed, usually Mo]
--1 minion master nec
and after that it gets tricky, sometimes a mes, or a ranger, or another nec.
whatever we feel like trying out and whatever people feel like playing on, and you'd be suprised at how effective rangers can really be in there
Alex The Fat
Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
Funny how necros aren't wanted in Uw/Fow, but are in Sorrows.
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
guess you've never seen 2 man uw runs? or all the fissure groups looking for bip necro's? necro's are essential to a good/quick smite run these days and BiP is a nice addition to a party with 3 elementalists and 2 monks but tahts just my 2 cents --- necro power! but i myself play a blood necro and see the difficulty of getting a group, same goes for my mesmer, and my ranger so i just hop on my monk and go with it
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
guess you've never seen 2 man uw runs? or all the fissure groups looking for bip necro's? necro's are essential to a good/quick smite run these days and BiP is a nice addition to a party with 3 elementalists and 2 monks but tahts just my 2 cents --- necro power! but i myself play a blood necro and see the difficulty of getting a group, same goes for my mesmer, and my ranger so i just hop on my monk and go with it
Elena
people seriously need to look at us arrows slinging nature loving hippy's :P
i mean i can do bout 40-50 damage with barrage + conjure to casters without em running away meaning the warrior can pack em all nicely together and take the damage without em running off screaming aoe oh noes! and let me spam barrage like there's no tommorow wee
i mean i can do bout 40-50 damage with barrage + conjure to casters without em running away meaning the warrior can pack em all nicely together and take the damage without em running off screaming aoe oh noes! and let me spam barrage like there's no tommorow wee
Old Dood
Our Guild uses Rangers. They are great for interupts! This helps the Necro MM get his minions built up. I rarely have to heal our Rangers either. I save my Heals/Buffs for our World's Greatest Tank!
XvArchonvX
I have to admit of being guilty of aiming to form groups with the typical MM, rank, nuker, heal and prot monk build. My reasoning is that when you have a small group, you need to cover two bases really well. You have to cause a lot of damage quickly and you have to stay alive to deal it.
Don't get me wrong though, I do think that 5-man SF runs are possible with mes and rangers. The reason I don't usually choose these types in PUG is because there are a LOT of people who have rangers and mes, but simply don't know how to really use them to get the best out of their potential. Admittedly, I believe that mesmers and rangers are some of the hardest builds to be successful with aside from an ele using anything but fire.
If there were players I knew, and knew the build of well, I would incorporate more variety into the SF fa farming groups I form, but I really don't trust most players in PUGs. Too many times to I find someone who is like a monk I had in the group the other day who claimed to be healing and prot, then ran to the front, tried to tank and died...over...and over...
Because of this I think I'm going to start a thread for people to describe their build to join up for SF farming...
Don't get me wrong though, I do think that 5-man SF runs are possible with mes and rangers. The reason I don't usually choose these types in PUG is because there are a LOT of people who have rangers and mes, but simply don't know how to really use them to get the best out of their potential. Admittedly, I believe that mesmers and rangers are some of the hardest builds to be successful with aside from an ele using anything but fire.
If there were players I knew, and knew the build of well, I would incorporate more variety into the SF fa farming groups I form, but I really don't trust most players in PUGs. Too many times to I find someone who is like a monk I had in the group the other day who claimed to be healing and prot, then ran to the front, tried to tank and died...over...and over...
Because of this I think I'm going to start a thread for people to describe their build to join up for SF farming...
Damon Windwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuseden
damn it... now with all these 5 man builds...
nobody fc*king wants a ranger... they want minion masters tanks
monks and nukers but not rangers.....
if theres any guild wars dev. reading this... pls make us abit more powerful.
i feel so third world. damn it I've run with rangers...I've run with mesmers...
A good player playing either one is always welcome in my party!
nobody fc*king wants a ranger... they want minion masters tanks
monks and nukers but not rangers.....
if theres any guild wars dev. reading this... pls make us abit more powerful.
i feel so third world. damn it I've run with rangers...I've run with mesmers...
A good player playing either one is always welcome in my party!
kitten
Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
Funny how necros aren't wanted in Uw/Fow, but are in Sorrows.
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
my 'main' character is a Me/N.
For Fissure I'm usually a shutdown/interupter and have a little trouble getting in to a group. (I take Blood Ritual if there isn't a Battery Necro). I find that Necros are usually wanted for battery purposes.
For UW, I haven't made many runs there, but pre AoE nerf - as a dom mesmer I did great with Echo>Chaos Storm. It took longer to get a group though. However, I'm having a blast with 2 and 3 man Smite runs (with an invinci monk and/or a healer monk) by using almost all Necro skills Echo>Spiteful with Blood Ritual and Blood is the Master (too boost my curses since I'm Necro secondary).
SO - I think Necros are wanted in that area, from what I've seen.
As for SF - My mesmer can't get into a group for ANY reason, minions or not. I only go with my guild, who like the minions and interrupts.
Funny how rangers are wanted in Uw/Fow, but aren't in Sorrows.
Thats what we call equilibrium.
my 'main' character is a Me/N. For Fissure I'm usually a shutdown/interupter and have a little trouble getting in to a group. (I take Blood Ritual if there isn't a Battery Necro). I find that Necros are usually wanted for battery purposes.
For UW, I haven't made many runs there, but pre AoE nerf - as a dom mesmer I did great with Echo>Chaos Storm. It took longer to get a group though. However, I'm having a blast with 2 and 3 man Smite runs (with an invinci monk and/or a healer monk) by using almost all Necro skills Echo>Spiteful with Blood Ritual and Blood is the Master (too boost my curses since I'm Necro secondary).
SO - I think Necros are wanted in that area, from what I've seen.
As for SF - My mesmer can't get into a group for ANY reason, minions or not. I only go with my guild, who like the minions and interrupts.
leeky baby
If ur moaning about being a ranger then go and 3 man farm the UW,thats what i do then monk,warrior SF
Kai Nui
agreed. I'm a mesmer, power us up too. It's like those W/R that can get money by running people from Beacons to Droknors type deal. It's like racist or something lol...
Sereng Amaranth
I have no problem doing a 4 man team for SF. Me, Sticky Icky my spider, Devona, Mhenlo and Lina. :P
Maxiemonster
Hmm, Rangers do suck in SF, just invited one, but he didn't deal much dmg
Meroim
I cleared most of SF with a Curse necro, a pet/smite ranger and Lina+Mhenlo, nothing more. It worked very well.
2_fingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
Hmm, Rangers do suck in SF, just invited one, but he didn't deal much dmg
Which is why if you are the leader, you got to know what skills your guys are bringing. If its a barrage ranger, what enchants. If its a trapper, ask if Oathshot or spike trap is his elite. If you invited him and u didnt ask, then its ur fault actually.
Which is why if you are the leader, you got to know what skills your guys are bringing. If its a barrage ranger, what enchants. If its a trapper, ask if Oathshot or spike trap is his elite. If you invited him and u didnt ask, then its ur fault actually.