I've been trying to do some henching, and I'm getting frustrated with the new behavior of the healers: they will rez instantly if someone goes down. If they get interrupted, and 9 times out of 10 they are, it's an 8 second cast after all, they WILL START REZZING AGAIN!
Also, losing healing or protection for 8+ seconds usually means someone else goes down. So you get a chain reaction, where if one dies, most times someone else will. And then the cycle repeats!
Effectively this means that as soon as someone, anyone, goes down, the team has no healing anymore.
I tried bringing Vengeance, but it seems one cant cast vengeance on someone who's already being rezzed. Should I really need to bring rez-sig and start spamming it when someones health drops to 10% just because Mhenlo and Lina are rez-happy?
Hench AI worse than ever.
Numa Pompilius
Former Ruling
I have the opposite problem sometimes. We'll kill the group of enemies we were working on, and say 2-3 members died. Theres sometimes the monk will sit there is Cast all the healing spells they have, and all their enchantmetns on the living people before they even rez the first fallen..Wasting about 30sec-1min of my day orison of healing someone that has literally 99% health and not rezzing someone..And sometimes they REFUSE to Rez..and I end up rez sigging them..Some glitch in the AI where it doesn't realize their dead I think..
But overall...That monk works better than 60% of player monks.
But overall...That monk works better than 60% of player monks.
Sekkira
I would much prefer the monks to keep on healing the living instead of trying to raise the dead during battle.
Mysterial
I've never noticed the henchmen resurrecting players in battle unless no one was really getting damaged.
Tactical-Dillusions
I'm pretty sure not all henchmen carry a res signet like they used to but i have no complaints with the actual AI myself. They have always been and always will be better than alot of players and they never quit or get err=7.
My ONLY grumble is Stefan, Thom and Devona not using their healing signet...even when they are just suffering DoT. They would rather die... Ingloriously.
My ONLY grumble is Stefan, Thom and Devona not using their healing signet...even when they are just suffering DoT. They would rather die... Ingloriously.
FrogDevourer
My henchmen are doing their job normally. They're fine unless the last human player dies. As long as i stay alive I trust them more than most PuGs. It's not profession related, as I play with henchmen with all professions (monk secondary or not).
KvanCetre
Fact: Henchmen AI hasn't been changed in any patch for quite a while
Aracos79
Also Fact: Henchmen outperform 90% of all PUGs.
smurfhunter
henchman are depressingly single minded. they have no patience. like on altar maps, all this fighter guy wants to do is "charge" up to the other team and OMG GRIFFONS SWEEP them. he wont even wait for the rest of the team, he just runs in like a retard.
other than that, theyre really nice people. they listen to everything you say.
other than that, theyre really nice people. they listen to everything you say.
Numa Pompilius
Fact: I never saw Mhenlo and Lina drop everything to rez in the middle of battle until about a week ago. Before that, they'd usually NOT rez in battle, unless noone was taking damage.
Try it. Take an all hench crew out in Sorrows, get one killed, and watch Mhenlo start rezzing.
I'm not knocking henchmen. Hell, I've completed the game twice with henchmen, I *love* henchmen, I want to have Linas babies, I'm just damn tired of getting killed because monk #1 is doing battlefield rezzing and getting interrupted over and over, while monk #2 is spending all her energy keeping monk #1 alive and the rest of the team is dying.
Try it. Take an all hench crew out in Sorrows, get one killed, and watch Mhenlo start rezzing.
I'm not knocking henchmen. Hell, I've completed the game twice with henchmen, I *love* henchmen, I want to have Linas babies, I'm just damn tired of getting killed because monk #1 is doing battlefield rezzing and getting interrupted over and over, while monk #2 is spending all her energy keeping monk #1 alive and the rest of the team is dying.
aron searle
I went out side ember light camp with henchies, as soon as one died they started ressing.
But this only happend once, the second time they waited till after it was over.
But this only happend once, the second time they waited till after it was over.
Zaklex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KvanCetre
Fact: Henchmen AI hasn't been changed in any patch for quite a while
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All henches carry the Res Sig, however, AI was changed so that if the human player was alive and that player had a rez sig, the henches would perform a rez before the human player, previously they would wait for the human player to use the rez first, even if that player was dead.
Saba The Hobo
Hell, henchmen are doing an awesome job for me, I just beat Hell's Precipice with them last night 
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Only on a rare occasion do the healers stop to res in battle. Only times I've seen them do so is when the damage taken starts to die down (towards the end of a battle).
Only on a rare occasion do the healers stop to res in battle. Only times I've seen them do so is when the damage taken starts to die down (towards the end of a battle).
Zenny
I'd have to agree that the AI seems more sketchy lately. I love henchmen, I use them all the time and beat the toughest missions with them.
Recently though, they seem to be rezzing mid-battle where it seems safe then we drop fast (Doesn't stop to heal...).
My favorite though is how the healer hench seems to be biased towards who to heal. Healer seems prefer to heal henchies with a 1/4 life lost when I'm taking heavy damage till I die without a single cure! Where's the love now? Never was a problem before.
Recently though, they seem to be rezzing mid-battle where it seems safe then we drop fast (Doesn't stop to heal...).
My favorite though is how the healer hench seems to be biased towards who to heal. Healer seems prefer to heal henchies with a 1/4 life lost when I'm taking heavy damage till I die without a single cure! Where's the love now? Never was a problem before.
carnivore
hmm i've kind noticed this. when just 1 person goes down and we're in a middle of a fight, monk breaks off and rezes. i think its still the same as before though, with them rezing when there's only 1 enemy left...
unfortunatly today the 1 enemy left was glint and they kept rezing little thorn ><
won eventually tho
unfortunatly today the 1 enemy left was glint and they kept rezing little thorn ><
won eventually tho
nechronius
Henchie single mindedness is right...
This was on the way to doing Villany of Galrath
http://templars.org/gw/stalemate1.jpg
And now eight hours later (went to bed)
http://templars.org/gw/stalemate2.jpg
Needless to say it was a perfect stalemate where the NPC wasn't getting healed enough to do anything other than to heal themself.
This was on the way to doing Villany of Galrath
http://templars.org/gw/stalemate1.jpg
And now eight hours later (went to bed)
http://templars.org/gw/stalemate2.jpg
Needless to say it was a perfect stalemate where the NPC wasn't getting healed enough to do anything other than to heal themself.
Jczech
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KvanCetre
Fact: Henchmen AI hasn't been changed in any patch for quite a while
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Quote:
| Healer henchmen now prioritize healing party allies whose death would result in mission failure. |
Caelus The Fallen
A couple of nights ago, in a group with all humans except the 2 healer henchmen, I died because the henchmen insisted upon healing everyone with nearly full health, and ignoring me, the only one who was taking any serious damage. Since I had no self-heals, I could do nothing but sit an watch as I was slowly beaten and degen'd to death. Even the other human party members noticed this, and had a few choice words for the AI.
coolsti
I noticed also that the henchmen seem to res a bit earlier in a battle. In my recent experiences, the res does not occur right away. There must be some algorithm for deciding when it is "safe" to res. But it is happening earlier.
I think this is good, if maybe the new strategy is a tad overzealous. Before, it was irritating to watch the henchies fight a non-targetted losing battle when me, dead on my butt, could only but watch. Now I get res'd sooner, so I can take over command.
There are still yet times when I wish I could be res'd even earlier than is currently occurring. And if I am the only human in the group, I find it annoying that I cannot target who the henchies go after in order to at least get them to all target the same. It would be a vast improvement to allow this: 1) to indicate to the henchies to please res me now, like by targetting myself (this does not work now, I tried it many times) and to indicate to the henchies even though I am dead which foe they should concentrate on.
(I mean, hey, if I am the only human party member, this is MY game, not the henchies', let me decide what goes on, dead or not!)
I think this is good, if maybe the new strategy is a tad overzealous. Before, it was irritating to watch the henchies fight a non-targetted losing battle when me, dead on my butt, could only but watch. Now I get res'd sooner, so I can take over command.
There are still yet times when I wish I could be res'd even earlier than is currently occurring. And if I am the only human in the group, I find it annoying that I cannot target who the henchies go after in order to at least get them to all target the same. It would be a vast improvement to allow this: 1) to indicate to the henchies to please res me now, like by targetting myself (this does not work now, I tried it many times) and to indicate to the henchies even though I am dead which foe they should concentrate on.
(I mean, hey, if I am the only human party member, this is MY game, not the henchies', let me decide what goes on, dead or not!)
Shadowdaemon
its been like that ever since they made the henchmen heal the guest npc's more , now the seem to heal party members less, and they res sometimes in battle, whats really fun is watch mhenlo be the last one alive, he raises lina, who then begins ressing mhenlo, because he died right after ressing her, and they do it back and forth....
but oh well, at least they dont run off into the sky at the res shrines anymore, so they are good enough.
but oh well, at least they dont run off into the sky at the res shrines anymore, so they are good enough.
KvanCetre
Just because you haven't seen them do something before doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Everything anyone describes as "things that started happening recently" I have seen henchmen do before... a few months ago.
Snowman
Actually I think there is a bug.... the healer henchmen in sorrows furnace will attempt a resurect even if Frozen soil is down.
Or would they not be aware of that?
Or would they not be aware of that?
AncientPC
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mysterial
I've never noticed the henchmen resurrecting players in battle unless no one was really getting damaged.
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Whispering Siren
Actually, funny that you mention this occurence. Myself and two of my guildies went down to sorrows 3 days ago with Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn, and Little Thom.
We worked diligently trying to keep enemies out of our aggro circle until we were ready to pull one group. It worked ok for awhile, but then, while we were a reasonable distance away from another aggro group, Little Thom would yell charge! and rush into another aggro needlessly. And if he went, so did Cynn. It was funny the first time, but became frustrating after the 5-6th time...
And yes, Mhenlo and Lina DID drop everything and rez while we were still fighting. We all came to the conclusion that GW updated henchies recently. Suffice it to say, we are very hesitant on bring henchies with us to sorrows again.
We worked diligently trying to keep enemies out of our aggro circle until we were ready to pull one group. It worked ok for awhile, but then, while we were a reasonable distance away from another aggro group, Little Thom would yell charge! and rush into another aggro needlessly. And if he went, so did Cynn. It was funny the first time, but became frustrating after the 5-6th time...
And yes, Mhenlo and Lina DID drop everything and rez while we were still fighting. We all came to the conclusion that GW updated henchies recently. Suffice it to say, we are very hesitant on bring henchies with us to sorrows again.
melkoriii
With my Ranger the Hench Healer spends most of her time keeping the Cat alive while I die.
Happened 3 times to me where Im getting my arrs handed to me and my pet is at about 60% and the healer will just keep spamming the pet with heals and let me die.
Happened 3 times to me where Im getting my arrs handed to me and my pet is at about 60% and the healer will just keep spamming the pet with heals and let me die.
lg5000
THen the healer henchie is doing a 100% better job than most human monks, considering they actually looked after your pet. Admitedly, a human monk woulda kept you alive instead of the pet.
Former Ruling
Henchman are admittedly worse knowledge wise than humans - They just follow your directions. They dont run off and leave the group, logout, or curse at you.
I could go on and on about cases where the henchman's AI made me barf - and I could do the same for Humans.
The only Henchmen I have real problems with sometimes are Healers. They bring very little variety of skills and dont use the right skills at the right time. After battle once, I was down to like 50 hp, and poisoned. Alesia Orison of Healing'ed everyone else in the party (who were almost full hp) while I watched myself die...while in another mission the whole team died except for the monk (human), and he was smart enough to go protection long enough to get another guy up (who then started chain of rez sigs) and we went on to finish the mission perfectly.
I can swith that around and tell you when Alesia saved my life, and when a human monk sit there and refused to even pay attention to peoples health until it was under 25% (smited til then) - of course we lasted through maybe 3-4 groups of enemies with that strategy..
I could go on and on about cases where the henchman's AI made me barf - and I could do the same for Humans.
The only Henchmen I have real problems with sometimes are Healers. They bring very little variety of skills and dont use the right skills at the right time. After battle once, I was down to like 50 hp, and poisoned. Alesia Orison of Healing'ed everyone else in the party (who were almost full hp) while I watched myself die...while in another mission the whole team died except for the monk (human), and he was smart enough to go protection long enough to get another guy up (who then started chain of rez sigs) and we went on to finish the mission perfectly.
I can swith that around and tell you when Alesia saved my life, and when a human monk sit there and refused to even pay attention to peoples health until it was under 25% (smited til then) - of course we lasted through maybe 3-4 groups of enemies with that strategy..
Fyre Brand
I think the AI considers the following when rezzing:
1. Do you have a rez spell or signet. If so you will be rezzed first or early on. If not you will be rezzed later.
2. The non-monk henchies will rez you with signet if you are far away from Lina or Mhenlo, else they will rez Lina or Mhenlo first.
3. Lina or Mhenlo like to rez each other before anyone else. This isn't always the case, but 90% there. Often they will rez me before they rez the other healer, but they will rarely or never rez any other henchie until they can rez the other healer.
4. The henchie group will often kill the mop pack first. The monk hechie will likely only rez you if the rest of the groups health is good, their energy is up, and the AI decides you are important to kill the mop pack.
5. Rezzing also depends on the AI's determination of who is important to completing the mission/task at hand. I believe this is also a factor in choice of healing. Obviously a player is going to factor higher just because they are human and are given a higher priority as opposed to all other henchies. This isn't always true if the group is facing a tough mop pack or there are multiple humans in a group with henchie healers.
There are also other factors I'm sure that I'm missing. I just think there are a lot of factors that could make the AI seem incosistant that could be from slight build changes, group dynamics, and the area you're hunting.
1. Do you have a rez spell or signet. If so you will be rezzed first or early on. If not you will be rezzed later.
2. The non-monk henchies will rez you with signet if you are far away from Lina or Mhenlo, else they will rez Lina or Mhenlo first.
3. Lina or Mhenlo like to rez each other before anyone else. This isn't always the case, but 90% there. Often they will rez me before they rez the other healer, but they will rarely or never rez any other henchie until they can rez the other healer.
4. The henchie group will often kill the mop pack first. The monk hechie will likely only rez you if the rest of the groups health is good, their energy is up, and the AI decides you are important to kill the mop pack.
5. Rezzing also depends on the AI's determination of who is important to completing the mission/task at hand. I believe this is also a factor in choice of healing. Obviously a player is going to factor higher just because they are human and are given a higher priority as opposed to all other henchies. This isn't always true if the group is facing a tough mop pack or there are multiple humans in a group with henchie healers.
There are also other factors I'm sure that I'm missing. I just think there are a lot of factors that could make the AI seem incosistant that could be from slight build changes, group dynamics, and the area you're hunting.
Zonzai
Huh? Hench never ever rez me in a fight unless all the other hench are at full life. They'll even blow 10 energy to heal for 10 health instead of rezzing me. How do you get the ones that rez in the fight and I don't?
Snowman
maybe they have been made intentionally more stupid.. to encourage you to take peeps instead.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
| 4. The henchie group will often kill the mop pack first. The monk hechie will likely only rez you if the rest of the groups health is good, their energy is up, and the AI decides you are important to kill the mop pack. |
Most of the time he'll get interrupted, but get right back to rezzing again. The rest of the team will continue to take damage and not get healed OR protected, as Lina will spend all her energy protecting Mhenlo while he rezzes.
aron searle
Ok the other night i was doing the ring of fire.
Now we made some bad moves, and we were abit slow to pull back and someone died.
Anyway we recoup and start moving foward again. Our warrior whos dead is behind the mursaat at the gate where the bridge is. We start range attacking to lure, and mehnlo runs straight ahead past the mursatt to try and res the warrior :/
Now we made some bad moves, and we were abit slow to pull back and someone died.
Anyway we recoup and start moving foward again. Our warrior whos dead is behind the mursaat at the gate where the bridge is. We start range attacking to lure, and mehnlo runs straight ahead past the mursatt to try and res the warrior :/
Former Ruling
I do not think ALL of the Henchman have Rez Sig.
I tested..Didn't bring sig..and got the whole team killed off except for me and a henchie.
I sit there right around the Dead bodies of our comrades waiting for the henchman to rez sig Alesia..and never did.
This brings me to two possible conclusions:
1) They did not have Rez Sig...
2) The AI is poorly coded and always assumes the human palyers will bring Rez Sig (so was waiting for me to use a rez sig I didn't even have).
I tested..Didn't bring sig..and got the whole team killed off except for me and a henchie.
I sit there right around the Dead bodies of our comrades waiting for the henchman to rez sig Alesia..and never did.
This brings me to two possible conclusions:
1) They did not have Rez Sig...
2) The AI is poorly coded and always assumes the human palyers will bring Rez Sig (so was waiting for me to use a rez sig I didn't even have).
Aeon_Xin
I posted this elsewhere but I had to share. Sorry for bring up a slightly updated topic also.
Fighting minotaurs and trolls.
I got killed almost instantly, as every monster agro'd on me, and no henchie moved to heal or fight.
I was rezed right away, very minimal fighting between henchies and monsters, and killed again right away.
THEN the henchies all turn, fight, and die.
This is after the new patch, and the fix for it, last night actually, just south of ToA.
Before the patch, I've been rezed right away when dying in other locations, regardless of NPC actions, died from lack of healing, when everyone else is 90% healthy or better.
It happens quite often, you should have a few seconds after rez where you're immune to attacks or something. I can't count the number of times I've been at -60% in a single fight. Once, maybe twice I was rezzed at 60% several times before the fight was over.
Fighting minotaurs and trolls.
I got killed almost instantly, as every monster agro'd on me, and no henchie moved to heal or fight.
I was rezed right away, very minimal fighting between henchies and monsters, and killed again right away.
THEN the henchies all turn, fight, and die.
This is after the new patch, and the fix for it, last night actually, just south of ToA.
Before the patch, I've been rezed right away when dying in other locations, regardless of NPC actions, died from lack of healing, when everyone else is 90% healthy or better.
It happens quite often, you should have a few seconds after rez where you're immune to attacks or something. I can't count the number of times I've been at -60% in a single fight. Once, maybe twice I was rezzed at 60% several times before the fight was over.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin
I posted this elsewhere but I had to share. Sorry for bring up a slightly updated topic also.
Fighting minotaurs and trolls. I got killed almost instantly, as every monster agro'd on me, and no henchie moved to heal or fight. I was rezed right away, very minimal fighting between henchies and monsters, and killed again right away. THEN the henchies all turn, fight, and die. This is after the new patch, and the fix for it, last night actually, just south of ToA. Before the patch, I've been rezed right away when dying in other locations, regardless of NPC actions, died from lack of healing, when everyone else is 90% healthy or better. It happens quite often, you should have a few seconds after rez where you're immune to attacks or something. I can't count the number of times I've been at -60% in a single fight. Once, maybe twice I was rezzed at 60% several times before the fight was over. |
an updated guide needs to be written on hench control. i remember seeing one a long time ago but needs to be dusted off.
coolsti
Henchy control has taken a definite dive since the November 10th patch. I hope the update on November 11th has improved things again. Problem that I noticed is that now the enemy runs away when Orion casts his AOE spells. They run away from the tanking warrior henchies. The problem with this now is that the warrior henchies then follow the foes that are running away, right into a larger mob where the foes were pulled from. In go the henchy warriors, into a large flock, and they die.
When this starts to happen I retreat, pulling back as fast as I can, but the henchy warriors do not respond to the retreat quickly enough. This definitely needs to be tweaked.
I imagine that updates on AI that Anet makes one day may definitely negatively affect the overall AI scripting intelligence in unforeseen negative ways. I for one hope that Anet realizes this latest problem and fixes it somehow, perhaps making the henchies smart enough not to follow one enemy into a larger mob, or at least responding to the human player's retreat much more quickly.
And for me it would be nice if the henchy monks would not rez so quickly! Being rezzed before a battle is finished or before all the other henchies are dead is good. But being rezzed when there are still too many enemy about is not so good.
When this starts to happen I retreat, pulling back as fast as I can, but the henchy warriors do not respond to the retreat quickly enough. This definitely needs to be tweaked.
I imagine that updates on AI that Anet makes one day may definitely negatively affect the overall AI scripting intelligence in unforeseen negative ways. I for one hope that Anet realizes this latest problem and fixes it somehow, perhaps making the henchies smart enough not to follow one enemy into a larger mob, or at least responding to the human player's retreat much more quickly.
And for me it would be nice if the henchy monks would not rez so quickly! Being rezzed before a battle is finished or before all the other henchies are dead is good. But being rezzed when there are still too many enemy about is not so good.
Torment
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NumaPompilius
Besides the whole object of the PvE campaign is to 1) Solo farm the UW/FoW, and 2) get through the PvE as quickly as possible, because everyone hates the PvE and just want it over with.
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Numa Pompilius
Nice cut & paste job from an ironic post, assh... i mean Torment.
EDIT: And it's apparently been deleted because I was being ironic and mean to entropy because he was complaining about the patch even though he hated playing PvE before the patch, hates playing PvE after the patch, and want the PvE broken. So I can't link to it either.
EDIT: And it's apparently been deleted because I was being ironic and mean to entropy because he was complaining about the patch even though he hated playing PvE before the patch, hates playing PvE after the patch, and want the PvE broken. So I can't link to it either.
aron searle
So has anyone noticed if this ressing problem has been adjusted or not?
It was really getting on my tits the monk henchies ressing mid battle, to the point that i would only use henchies with my monk.
It was really getting on my tits the monk henchies ressing mid battle, to the point that i would only use henchies with my monk.
entropy
aww I want to see it 
. btw I didn't pm a mod to delete your posts or anything. Who deleted it? The pve is not fixed. the patch did not fix the problems. Go into the thread the fundamental problems with balancing and see my looong post their about it retyping is not fun
. btw I didn't pm a mod to delete your posts or anything. Who deleted it? The pve is not fixed. the patch did not fix the problems. Go into the thread the fundamental problems with balancing and see my looong post their about it retyping is not fun