Banning

Ive heard people saying how Anet has perma-banned people for scamming as little 500 gold from runners. Is this just a scare tactic used by runners to make you pay, or is Anet really that anal about things now-aday.

If screen shots are provided, all I can say is **Barbrady voice** "nothing wrong here... move along, move along..." Nothing wrong with ridding the place of fledgeling thieves before they steal something really valuable. Sorry if I sound harsh, but some lessons are best learned with only a $50.00 USD loss.

My guess... it's probably a scare tactic.

Well, a permanent ban will only ensue if the "perp" in question has had many "strikes" against their account already. Meaning A.Net has [temp.] banned them multiple times before...

I will say this, I know they ban for scamming runners. I run people for fun sometimes, and charge less than most people for long-distance runs (beacons to cay, etc). Getting scammed for 30+ minutes of time really sucks. They WILL ban you if evidence (screenshots) are provided. Which I always do.

Ok.. I think that is totally ignorant. Im not a scammer nor have been scammed. Really though if you get scammed its because you placed trust in someone hence you gave them money before getting what you paid for or giving to them what there paying for before they pay for it. If this happens I believe it is your own fault and there is always a risk that they wont pay. That is like the gamblers around town who say give me 10k and if you roll so and so you get so much... If you place your trust in them that is your fault.

Now if they were using third party programs I can see a reason for them to be banned. I think Anet is very ignorant if they ban these low scammers rather than take care of much larger problems such as the trade of real money for in game money etc...

I feel no pity for them... nerf scammers with the ban-bat
If anything, it forces dishonest players to buy another copy of UW if they wish to play again, teaches them a valuable lesson about cyber-crime despite their anonymity, and increases ANET profits long term. JMHO...

I would like to see where they get the funding to pay people to sit around reading all the emails about scams.

They don't have to... they already have system admins and their underlings to do the work. Yes, techies can multi-task

I still dont see why they would ban someone over someone elses ignorance and there are alot of immature ignorant players on gw. So if techies can respond to a few million emails a day and figure out what ones are legit, and do there other tasks then they are in dire need of a raise.

Im sure Anet doesnt want runners to be scammed surely they will implement a fair way to pay runners in the future. I mean who should have to play through the game.

If they respond to every little whining baby over a pitiful amount of gold I must say they are a dedicated gaming company.

Scamming is a conscious choice made by the purpotrator/thief to defraud another player of their property or services. There's no need to blame the victim of the virtual-crime just because the game programmers made no coding provisions for a secure-payment system. Fortunately, scamming isn't that rampant as you think (not everyone is a sociopath -- most of us were raised correctly), or else banning would be a much longer process.

Besides, it is in ANET's best interest to ban abusive players for several reasons:

1) positive customer support to rid their product of players who ruin the gaming experience for the rest of the honest customer base.

2) the banned player is forced to buy another copy of GW if they wish to continue game play, thereby increasing ANET's revenue.

Either way, banning bad players is a win/win scenario for ANET. Enforcement is a pain, but everyone benefits long term from this extra effort.

That has to be a joke.

People that "waste" time running. This is a game right? Running for fun or getting GW gold is still playing the game. Whether you get paid or not.
People have to get over them selves in this game. Actually having running academies and setting up running businesses. This is a game.

But people are so caught up in the whole economy thing that they go along with it. Anet is the the biggest hypocrite ,especially if they are banning people for not paying runners.

Anet will reset the whole economy and allow people to buy hoards of stuff for 100 gold and then resell to merchants or to other players for HUGE amounts of gold. But if someone stiffs a guy 500 for a run that any noob could probably do themselves if they weren't so lazy they get banned?

If anything they should make it "illegal" to run people. I know that isn't a popular stand, and I am sure to get bashed for it. But since it is THE MOST EASY way to scam someone, (on both sides) then it should be eliminated. When someone gets scammed in a trade they are simply not paying attention. Since they have to accept the trade. But if someone is going on a promise, then you get what you get from both sides.

Trying to make legit "businesses" out of it might be seen as OK. As in having "reputeable" runners run you. But that is eliminating a lot of the game play. I know everyone doesn't want to actually have to play the game to get their PvP builds somewhere. Bt they still have to level, then that raises the power levelling. I am suprised that hasn't hit it big yet.

I help people for free. I won't run anyone, but I will fight the baddies for them(might be the same thing who knows), but, I am loaded with glod, and have all the armors I want, and most of the materials and weapons I want/need. So helping people is the only think I can really do now, unless I go out and chest farm, then I basically have to give the stuff away or buy something from the merchant to make space for gold.

But I won't take people from point A to point Z. But I will help them form C to F, but they have to hit D and E along the way.

People take it way too seriously, and when I read some of the posts I laugh outloud. It is almost like GW is their job or something, and that diploma they got for being able to play a game actually makes their life a little better. Kind of sad actually.

But banning people from playing a GAME they spent 50 REAL dollars on is ludicrous, especially for doing something in a MAKE BELIEVE (un)reality.

Regardless of how much of a "joke" you think it is, or what your stand is on the subject:

"The following rules govern basic interaction within the Guild Wars game and the Guild Wars websites. Please be aware that failure to comply with these rules of conduct may result in the termination of your Guild Wars game account according to the Guild Wars User Agreement.

In addition to these rules of conduct, explicit rules affecting your account may be found in the Guild Wars User Agreement.

1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players."

There you go, #1 rule from the RoC straight from A.Net. Defrauding is just a "nice" term for scamming someone.

If the victim has evidence, and reports you, you WILL be punished. Usually in the form of a temporary ban; after the first initial ban, the time length will increase, until you have enough "strikes" against you - then you will be permanantly banned and forced to purchase the game again if you want to continue playing.

The point here: Don't scam, unless you really just want to be banned.

You can find the RoC here:

http://www.guildwars.com/legal/rules-of-conduct.html

I agree that people do take this game way too seriously... that's why a real multi-billion-dollar industry now revolves around MMORPG's:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/17/pl...ney/index.html

Either way, people are investing real time and money in the aquisition and sales of virtual items, and con-artists have turned to this virtual reality as their next money-making scheme. The question is where to draw the line in banning, now that real and virtual money lines have blurred.

I don't mind seeing a no-tolerance stance, since ANET can lose a lot of REAL profits if they can't police their virtual property and keep it clear of those out to make a quick buck, even if it's a 12-year-old with no concept of crime. It's better that the youngster learn the consequences of his or her actions now, before they become adults.

^^
What he said

I'm glad I don't know you in real life.

I have met those who do not scam that ruin gameplay... dont take my word for it though Im almost 99.9% positive that they dont ban those who take advantage of someone elses stupidity of trusting one. I would put 50k on it. Im not for scammers but Im against alot of things that abuse and make the game unequal. Im sorry but being ran and rushed through the game is pathetic. I dont care if you have been through the game already if your bored of it get another game.

I mean what about the poor noobs in the noob arena's. There getting owned and the people with there uber equip/skillset is trashtalking like there the best thing that happened to GW. Im sorry but if GW wanted a moral economy they have failed dramatically sit in chat and tell me 90% of GW is moral mature players. I love GW, the gameplay setup everything.. but now that Im on a different work schedule I can no longer play with people I actually know. Comparing GW to other pay to play games I see that its economy is alot less friendly and mature than others. I know your going to say well go play that game then.. Its just I do like the way GW is setup.

Im not sure if its just that having to pay turns alot of the worst players off or what. Im starting to wish they would just add a small fee of like 1-2 dollars I say that would improve economy by alot..


"I'm glad I don't know you in real life"
Why is that? Im not saying to reward dishonesty, but hey in real life, would you give someone who you just met in the supermarket 200 bucks if they told you they would give you 500 in a few weeks? Im sorry but nothing gets on my nerves more than anything than someone who whines about such small insignificant things.

Everything you've mentioned about disruptive players is covered in the EULA excerp posted above:

"1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players."

Subscription won't change much since ANET is based on a unique non-subscription business model. Everyone int he MMORPG industry is watching ANET to see if their model can generate enough revenue to be self-sustaining. Also, the subscription topic has been discussed to death...

Well guild wars is not really a mmorpg, but Im just saying in other pay to play games the people were alot more mature/nice. I dont mean to sound rude or mean in any of my posts Im actually a very honest person you can ask the few I have traded with on here. It just gets to me even when GW just came out and they had the gambling guys around. Everytime someone got scammed it was Im reporting you this and that.

Also how many things do they enforce in the EULA. Im saying there less likely to waste there time on this than other problems that have arisen.

They would be banned, if reported with evidence (it happens). Did you know you can even be banned for cussing? It happens. ANYTHING that breaks the RoC rules, if reported WITH supporting evidence, the player will get banned (usually temporary).

So, you owe me 50K.

About the running thing:

I'm sure you wouldn't pay a runner before he ran what he was going to run, correct? But then, how would he get payed (and avoid being scammed) if he doesn't take payment BEFORE arrival (in which most scammers leave group/district/log off)? People complain about paying (even partially) at Snake Dance for a Drok's run, but what's to say you won't leave/log off once you get to Rancor? This is a rhetorical question, by the way.

And if you think getting ran through the game is pathetic, try playing all missions with your 10th character. It gets a little repetitive (hence, boring). So, just because I don't want to grind through all the PvE missions for the 10th time (at least), I should play another game? Come on...I will avoid flaming, but please keep useless (for lack of a proper, "nicer" word) comments such as these to yourself.

why even implement a chat filter if your going to disallow cussing? I will pay 50k once I recieve word from Anet.

- I submitted it to them awaiting response

You could just email them, you know.

edit: Oh, and about the chat filter thing. Many, many, many ways to get around that. I do it quite often when I'm joking with a friend of mine (don't even ask why he keeps it on). Of course this goes on in the PM chat.

Defraud...what did you get defrauded out of? Virtual gold in a virtual realitly. Technically it isn't even yours, it is property of Anet.

I wuold love to see the what would happen if all the guys who got permantly banned from the game filed a class action law suit against Anet.

You can't defaud someone out of something they do not actually own.

That is why buying and selling stuff on Ebay is crazy as well.

"you are paying for the time I spent collecting this" ...yada yada yada. Good disclaimer, and partially true I guess.

So if you can't sell something on Ebay for real money, then how can you be defrauded out of it in the game?

If they really want to start enforcing their own bylaws they should start kicking the under 18 players off their server whose parents don't have a clue about the game. But they can't do that because if they did they would lose 80% of their players.

Face it, all the rules and jargon they want to use isn't going to help anyone.

You get what you pay for. Guild Wars is free, people have to understand that and take it from there.

The reason why those othe rpay games are more social, is because you actually have to pay to play it, and not a lot of kids are going to be forking over $20 a month to buy a time card to play them, or have a credit card to have an account.

Enforce the age issue a little better, and it would solve a lot of these problems before they even start.

Did you read the article I posted about the multi-billion-dollar industry surrounding virtual property? That translates in REAL money, even if it sits on ANET's servers and is considered theirs by law. ANET's EULA has been amended to disallow real-money sales, but this isn't easily enforced in certain countries...

When you buy the Guildwars CD and key, you're only buying a client. The Guildwars servers are still owned and maintained by ANET. Clients are allowed to connect provided their owners comply with the EULA. If they fail to do so, ANET can terminate that client's privileges to use their services. Banned users still have the $50.00 game copy they bought, so they're SOL in the eyes of the law...

Still at most retail stores you can exchange the game for another one just say its faulty and woolah they give you another copy.

When you buy the Guildwars CD and key, you're only buying a client. The Guildwars servers are still owned and maintained by ANET. Clients are allowed to connect provided their owners comply with the EULA. If they fail to do so, ANET can terminate that client's privileges to use their services. Banned users still have the $50.00 game copy they bought, so they're SOL in the eyes of the law...


Would be interesting to see I guess. If you had a a few hundred or a thousand people that got banned for doing something that was "illegal" in Anet's interpertation, and by their rules of conduct in a virtual reality, that paid $50 for a product that is worthless, and with not even a resale value since it is key coded in the real world.

Simple fodder for discussion since I doubt either of these will veer happen. Either Anet banning for simpel infraction or jilted members filing suit. I suppose one or two might sue in small claims for their $50 back, but that isn't even worth the time. On either side. Anet would be better suited cutting them a check and having them send the game to them.



Still at most retail stores you can exchange the game for another one just say its faulty and woolah they give you another copy

Best solution yet, as long as you haven't had the game 3-4 months

actually @ wal-mart you can bring anything back with out a reciept as long as you dont do it frequently. I did with final fantasy 11 I bought it off someone for 20 bucks and found its tied to a persons bank account I took it back and all I had to do was show my id and sign a paper. As long as they have the game in stock they will honor it.

sorry to double post just recieved word from anet. "I hate it when Im wrong"

"1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

In a running agreement you agree to pay a person to run you and you do not pay them, you have just defrauded that play. The same goes for the other way, if a runner agrees to run you for payment and you pay but do not get run, that runner has just defrauded you. In both cases when this is reported to us we research the incident in great detail and if a violation is found we will take action if necessary. We do not discuss with players what particular punishments apply to particular violations, but be assured that we take violations of the rules very seriously. If you have any further questions or comments, feel free to contact us"

this is there comment, Im glad I didnt say I would pay someone 50k in game or else I would be subject to fraud

Although I could really use an extra 50K (saving for FoW armor)....

i got scammed for 200g today...LMAO ROFL LOL!!

How pitiful is that? Some runner was gonna do a run from augury to seekers passage, i was paying half before and half after. As soon as i paid the first half, he logged off. BUHAHAHAHAHHA. WTF would posses a guy to scam a person of 200g in this game? a 12 yr old adolescent who cant quite whipe his own @$$ yet?

i seriously sat there laughing for like 15 minutes straight!! i didnt even bother taking screen shots to report this silliness, why bother? PFftt... man im still laughing... shall we BAN him!?! HAHAHA

BAN BAN BAN!!

Yeah, that's pretty sad...

One thing I think is sad is they ban for scamming at runs.
True, it's deserved, but I don't think a SS can provide NEARLY enough evidence.
You could just go into a party, start a trade, and cancel it, say "Hey, pay that cash from me running you" and quickly take a screenshot.

What you see in the SS:
Trade canceled.
You: "Pay up"

Later you could take a screen of the same party, with the guy left.

So it will seem like you had run him, and he didn't pay, and then left.

But what really happened was just you being an ass.

So no, I don't think people should ban for this.

_Zexion

ANET does maintain server-side logs that we don't see, and these include character movement data with time stamps, who you were grouped with, chat log excerpts, what monsters are being routinely farmed, etc. This data allows ANET to confirm or deny claims leveled against other players, so good luck to anyone who tries to doctor a screen shot without corresponding server-side log data. It wouldn't surprise me if fraudulent accusers submitting false evidence get perma-banned the first time.

If I steal your car it's your fault for leaving it on the street then?

If I leave the keys in it and the doors unlocked yea... Your example made no sense... There not just stealing the persons money without any of the persons consent. The person is pretty much giving it to them or not.

people are scamming the runners as in they do not pay and just run off.

yes, and the runners give them the run BEFORE they get there money. Its a double edged sword. One of the parties has to trust the other. If I really wanted to skip the game to buy armor I would pay I dont see why people run off anyway. Its only what 2-3k?