A very basic skill that any good PvE tank seems to be lacking, is the ability to (somehow) recover from a bad pull. No matter how skillful and careful a party is, these do occur, simply because of the game mechanics. So the need of an aggro-reclaiming skill arises.
I suggest a Warrior shout, with Tactics req, that makes all the enemies within his or her aggro circle, switch aggro to him.
"Get Over Here!" (as an homage to Mortal Kombat)
Cost: 10 energy
Recharge: 30 seconds
Shout. All nearby foes have a [50...80%] chance to target you. (Attrib: Tactics)
(At 16 Tactics, the chance should be 100%.)
Would this work in PvP? As my guildmate Sitting Sparrow suggested, this would work to some extent. Think of the chaos on the other team if everyone started targeting that Warrior at the same time. This could greatly hamper their coordinated calling.
Warriors are in need of an aggro shout
Lagg
entropy
Do you really need to make PvE easier??? And I don't think any skill should be able to contol another players characters. Such as in this.
Lagg
Easier? Not really.
Just a tad bit more coordinated, providing us with a clever defense against faltering game mechanics (e.g. at times enemies will run "through" you or simply "lag past" you). Of course, this skill is targeted at the high-end PvE areas such as The Underworld and the Fissure of Woe.
As for its uses in PvP, I admit that they might seem a little overdaring. This is, by all means, a PvE-oriented skill and I personally wouldn't mind if it had absolutely no use in PvP.
Just a tad bit more coordinated, providing us with a clever defense against faltering game mechanics (e.g. at times enemies will run "through" you or simply "lag past" you). Of course, this skill is targeted at the high-end PvE areas such as The Underworld and the Fissure of Woe.
As for its uses in PvP, I admit that they might seem a little overdaring. This is, by all means, a PvE-oriented skill and I personally wouldn't mind if it had absolutely no use in PvP.
Yichi
/notsigned
this can be done already by letting the warior run in without other players being in his aggro circle. the mobs rush the warrior, monk casts healing seed, res cast aoe spells and nuke. simple and effective. no need to use a slot in my skill bar for something i can do without that skill.
this can be done already by letting the warior run in without other players being in his aggro circle. the mobs rush the warrior, monk casts healing seed, res cast aoe spells and nuke. simple and effective. no need to use a slot in my skill bar for something i can do without that skill.
derrtyboy69
/notsigned
just stand in front of them, your group should be able to pick up the slack anyway
just stand in front of them, your group should be able to pick up the slack anyway
striderkaaru
/notsigned
crowd control is what defines a really good tank from a decent tank. in case things go really wrong (aggro is broken and the enemies rush to the squishies), a good tank should have back up strategies and should still be able to help defend the casters. being able to ensure aggro just makes everything so much easier. a tank should know what to do to protect his casters in case he loses aggro.
crowd control is what defines a really good tank from a decent tank. in case things go really wrong (aggro is broken and the enemies rush to the squishies), a good tank should have back up strategies and should still be able to help defend the casters. being able to ensure aggro just makes everything so much easier. a tank should know what to do to protect his casters in case he loses aggro.
MSecorsky
Like totally /not signed.
Talk about making the runners jobs easier (in pairs)... one guy plows the road for the tandem runner.
Ugh.
Talk about making the runners jobs easier (in pairs)... one guy plows the road for the tandem runner.
Ugh.
Epinephrine
/notsigned
Aggro is easy to get with a good party and a good warrior. Removing skill from the game is not on my agenda.
Aggro is easy to get with a good party and a good warrior. Removing skill from the game is not on my agenda.
Lagg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
this can be done already by letting the warior run in without other players being in his aggro circle. the mobs rush the warrior, monk casts healing seed, res cast aoe spells and nuke. simple and effective. no need to use a slot in my skill bar for something i can do without that skill.
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But allow me to reiterate:
Quote:
| No matter how skillful and careful a party is, these do occur, simply because of the game mechanics. So the need of an aggro-reclaiming skill arises. |
Quote:
| (e.g. at times enemies will run "through" you or simply "lag past" you) |
In a perfect world, you wouldn't need an aggro shout since you could manage aggro "by the book" at all times. But you can't, no matter how careful you are. And even when things don't go wrong, it would still be useful to have a skill that guarantees you keep the aggro.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
in case things go really wrong (aggro is broken and the enemies rush to the squishies), a good tank should have back up strategies and should still be able to help defend the casters. being able to ensure aggro just makes everything so much easier. a tank should know what to do to protect his casters in case he loses aggro.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Aggro is easy to get with a good party and a good warrior. Removing skill from the game is not on my agenda.
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This isn't about removing skill from the game, it's about rewarding teamplay. But hey, we all know encouraging aforementioned has never been high on the list of priorities, if at all.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Talk about making the runners jobs easier (in pairs)... one guy plows the road for the tandem runner.
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Not to mention this should be a skill that you can only cast once every 30, no, even 60 seconds.
RoF
Geez, you guys are being a bit harsh! Please provide an explanation and show that you thought about what he wrote it if you disagree.
I see where you're coming from. You're intentions are good, (encouraging team-oriented strategic play.) I think your skill description as written is simply too powerful for pve. The warriors challenge in pve (in general) is to keep the aggro off the weaker characters and on themselves. I'm not saying that this is easy to do, but this skill pretty much takes all of the challenge out of it.
But I do like your idea! So here's my suggestion...
Get Over Here
For min .... max seconds target foe can only target you.
or if that is too weak...
Get Over Here
For min .... max seconds target foe and all adjacent foes can only target you.
of course either of these skills would have a high energy cost and a long recharge.
What do you think?
I see where you're coming from. You're intentions are good, (encouraging team-oriented strategic play.) I think your skill description as written is simply too powerful for pve. The warriors challenge in pve (in general) is to keep the aggro off the weaker characters and on themselves. I'm not saying that this is easy to do, but this skill pretty much takes all of the challenge out of it.
But I do like your idea! So here's my suggestion...
Get Over Here
For min .... max seconds target foe can only target you.
or if that is too weak...
Get Over Here
For min .... max seconds target foe and all adjacent foes can only target you.
of course either of these skills would have a high energy cost and a long recharge.
What do you think?
neoteo
/not signed
its part of the game
all warriors think they are the best , but when they start doing 5 man farming in sorrow , they realize , they suc
same for casters and everybody else ... position is very important
warrior far away in front ... everyone must give time for total agro on him ... and time means good 5 to 10 seconds sometimes ...
if the tank fails for any reason ... warrior simply must run back ... all casters run even more far back ... until warrior is in front of casters as it sould be ..
" under attack ! " its good that we have to run back sometimes ... and die if we dont , or this game would be too easy ... i dont mind at all that they make pve harder and harder ... make it impossible , i want to win it
basacly , warrior must be always minimum half circle away from everybody ... casters stay minimum half circle from mobs (no agro) and w8 for warrior to agro a long time ... warrior should tru to get as many as possible malee on him ... echo nukes will work a lot faster
if they put that skill , the warrior circle might get smaller , im guessing ...
its part of the game
all warriors think they are the best , but when they start doing 5 man farming in sorrow , they realize , they suc
same for casters and everybody else ... position is very important
warrior far away in front ... everyone must give time for total agro on him ... and time means good 5 to 10 seconds sometimes ...
if the tank fails for any reason ... warrior simply must run back ... all casters run even more far back ... until warrior is in front of casters as it sould be ..
" under attack ! " its good that we have to run back sometimes ... and die if we dont , or this game would be too easy ... i dont mind at all that they make pve harder and harder ... make it impossible , i want to win it
basacly , warrior must be always minimum half circle away from everybody ... casters stay minimum half circle from mobs (no agro) and w8 for warrior to agro a long time ... warrior should tru to get as many as possible malee on him ... echo nukes will work a lot faster
if they put that skill , the warrior circle might get smaller , im guessing ...
Lagg
Thanks for backing me up on this, RoF.
While I can take criticism (be it positive or negative), I do want it to be constructive; and you seem to be the only one who has actually contributed to solving the issue so far.
I actually like your second suggestion even more than my initial one. As in:
For min .... max seconds target foe and all adjacent foes can only target you.
Now this said, this is still too powerful for PvP, since you can effectively disable a Monk this way (he can no longer target his teammates). So I would change "target" by "attack".
In PvE, this would translate to an aggroing/protecting skill. In pvp, to a form of Pacifism. The fact that it only works on a single creature (and eventually creatures bordering that one) would probably satisfy the people reasoning that calling all of the aggro to oneself is overkil. Yet, it would be of great help for especially powerful single or paired enemies who tend to easily break aggro for no apparent reason (Bladed Aatxes, Terrorweb Dryders, the Four Horsemen etc.).
While I can take criticism (be it positive or negative), I do want it to be constructive; and you seem to be the only one who has actually contributed to solving the issue so far.
I actually like your second suggestion even more than my initial one. As in:
For min .... max seconds target foe and all adjacent foes can only target you.
Now this said, this is still too powerful for PvP, since you can effectively disable a Monk this way (he can no longer target his teammates). So I would change "target" by "attack".
In PvE, this would translate to an aggroing/protecting skill. In pvp, to a form of Pacifism. The fact that it only works on a single creature (and eventually creatures bordering that one) would probably satisfy the people reasoning that calling all of the aggro to oneself is overkil. Yet, it would be of great help for especially powerful single or paired enemies who tend to easily break aggro for no apparent reason (Bladed Aatxes, Terrorweb Dryders, the Four Horsemen etc.).
neoteo
i bet everything i have no skill like this will apear soon ...
if it comes in chapter 2 , alot of counter skills will come along
the effect its too inportant ... position skills would be totaly under valued ...
if it comes in chapter 2 , alot of counter skills will come along
the effect its too inportant ... position skills would be totaly under valued ...
Lagg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by neoteo
/not signed
its part of the game all warriors think they are the best , but when they start doing 5 man farming in sorrow , they realize , they suc same for casters and everybody else ... position is very important warrior far away in front ... everyone must give time for total agro on him ... and time means good 5 to 10 seconds sometimes ... if the tank fails for any reason ... warrior simply must run back ... all casters run even more far back ... until warrior is in front of casters as it sould be .. " under attack ! " its good that we have to run back sometimes ... and die if we dont , or this game would be too easy ... i dont mind at all that they make pve harder and harder ... make it impossible , i want to win it basacly , warrior must be always minimum half circle away from everybody ... casters stay minimum half way from mobs (no agro) and w8 for warrior to agro a long time ... warrior should tru to get as many as possible malee on him ... echo nukes will work a lot faster if they put that skill , the warrior circle might get smaller , im guessing ... |
There are many good Warriors out there who know how aggro works, who properly apply it, who are in parties that keep their distance and who react accordingly when things do go wrong.
My quirk is with the fact that aggro is simply broken sometimes. I'm sure it's not due to the programming directly, but because of the inherent problem of a game running on a network: latency. Now, you can go off and proclaim: "It's not a bug, it's a feature!", and I'll rest my case.
No matter how the situation evolves -- and yes indeed, good teams should be able to recover from bad pulls -- it does penalise organised teams sometimes, hence causing unnecessary frustration. Unless Anet reasons that teamplay should have the random factor and that only solo-farming should be a safe and sound activity, it's always the trained and well-prepared team that suffers from aggro problems.
I hate to have to put it bluntly like that, but PvE should be downright uneventful and boring, if you have a properly functioning team.
neoteo
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it's always the trained and well-prepared team that suffers from aggro problems
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sorry but you sound like a noob
i did read your post
id like to add just one more thing ...
do you know how latancy ( ping ) influences game play in FPShoters ?
whell , this game is not so diferent ... even better FPSeconds makes it easyer ... but doesnt mean that someone with a old machine and 56k connection cant be a better player ...
i always loved being able to make an headshot with 200 ping in unreal .. like you get used to the delay and use it for aiming ...
anyway ... i dont mind if the skill comes out , i think it is ( using guildwars cumunity words ) ... gay.
it's always the trained and well-prepared team that suffers from aggro problems
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sorry but you sound like a noob
i did read your post
id like to add just one more thing ...
do you know how latancy ( ping ) influences game play in FPShoters ?
whell , this game is not so diferent ... even better FPSeconds makes it easyer ... but doesnt mean that someone with a old machine and 56k connection cant be a better player ...
i always loved being able to make an headshot with 200 ping in unreal .. like you get used to the delay and use it for aiming ...
anyway ... i dont mind if the skill comes out , i think it is ( using guildwars cumunity words ) ... gay.
Funkinmofo
You would be better off proposing a rescue skill for when pulls/aggros go wrong.
Rescue:
Target touched ally is knocked down for (range based on tactics) secs and out of harms way while you intercede and attack agressive melee foe.
Energy - 10
Duration - based on tactics
Recharge - 45
Rescue:
Target touched ally is knocked down for (range based on tactics) secs and out of harms way while you intercede and attack agressive melee foe.
Energy - 10
Duration - based on tactics
Recharge - 45
Alone)
Well Lagg, as much as I would have fun with that skill, I feel that skill would make PvP unbalanced. Same as PvE. There are already way too many warriors as there are now. And the game is set balanced. It's suppose to be team work, not a one man dependable job.
I understand your factors, and am using my imagination instead of just using one point of you. But I feel it will not just work out. Just out of curiousity, have you tried playing as other professions in PvP, a lot? You might get a better understanding of why people would hate this skill, and why there would be more warriors.
Too many warrior/monks running around.
I understand your factors, and am using my imagination instead of just using one point of you. But I feel it will not just work out. Just out of curiousity, have you tried playing as other professions in PvP, a lot? You might get a better understanding of why people would hate this skill, and why there would be more warriors.
Too many warrior/monks running around.
Lagg
Ah yes, we've escalated to name-calling. And only after 10 posts (not counting mine). I guess it could have been worse. It's always a joy to try and have a discussion on these forums.
Anyhow, we're talking about a game that runs in datacenters serving thousands of connections, right? Not on a 32-player Unreal server.
And even if it were running on a 32-player server (and actually, it runs almost as well, kudos to Anet), the game mechanics of an FPS shooter are completely different from an RPG.
Whether the skill comes out or not (and I think the chance of it actually happening is indeed very slim, I'm not denying that), teamplayers that apply proper aggroing procedures (which some of you have taken the trouble to outline) should be rewarded for doing so and not be treated with randomly breaking enemies. And I'm not even mentioning the completely invisible and lagging enemies that spawn out of thin air right in the middle of a party (I guess that would be a tribute to Final Fantasy's random encounters, then).
Positioning and crowd control have to remain the primary concerns of any good aggroing tank, no doubt about that. Removing that would indeed take most of the point and fun away from the game. And most of the times, doing this is enough to ensure a good pull.
But when things do go wrong, I remain stubborn in thinking that secondary help should exist in the form of a. another tank to catch the breakers (something every good team should have) and b. a skill that allows a tank to retrieve at least some of the lost aggro.
Anyhow, we're talking about a game that runs in datacenters serving thousands of connections, right? Not on a 32-player Unreal server.
And even if it were running on a 32-player server (and actually, it runs almost as well, kudos to Anet), the game mechanics of an FPS shooter are completely different from an RPG.
Whether the skill comes out or not (and I think the chance of it actually happening is indeed very slim, I'm not denying that), teamplayers that apply proper aggroing procedures (which some of you have taken the trouble to outline) should be rewarded for doing so and not be treated with randomly breaking enemies. And I'm not even mentioning the completely invisible and lagging enemies that spawn out of thin air right in the middle of a party (I guess that would be a tribute to Final Fantasy's random encounters, then).
Positioning and crowd control have to remain the primary concerns of any good aggroing tank, no doubt about that. Removing that would indeed take most of the point and fun away from the game. And most of the times, doing this is enough to ensure a good pull.
But when things do go wrong, I remain stubborn in thinking that secondary help should exist in the form of a. another tank to catch the breakers (something every good team should have) and b. a skill that allows a tank to retrieve at least some of the lost aggro.
Alone)
Well, you could always suggest it to make a new category for skills just strictly for PvE. It could happen.
Lagg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alone)
Well Lagg, as much as I would have fun with that skill, I feel that skill would make PvP unbalanced. Same as PvE. There are already way too many warriors as there are now. And the game is set balanced. It's suppose to be team work, not a one man dependable job.
I understand your factors, and am using my imagination instead of just using one point of you. But I feel it will not just work out. |
The fact that there are so many Wammos around doesn't warrant the fact that they know what they're doing. Sure thing, it's a popular class. It's also a very underestimated one. The truth is is that the Warrior/Monk combination is indeed very powerful and at the same time extremely vulnerable to inexperienced players and their parties.
Now, no matter how you look at it, the job of a tank is rather one-dimensional. Getting the aggro and keeping the aggro. Everything he does apart from that should be considered optional. It just happens that the Warrior/Monk may be the most appropriate class to do so (save perhaps for Warrior/Elementalists with Armor of Earth etc.).
My point is: even if you live by every rule and apply every trick in the book, sometimes things still go wrong. All in all not a bad thing, since it keeps things exciting (like I said before, truly organised teams should be downright boring in their efficiency), but it also causes a few frustrating scenarios, at times.
I'm not saying that The Underworld needs to become a walk in the park (to be honest, for my guild, it already is, we're publishing our Complete Guide to it soon), heck, they should beef it up even more. All of this still doesn't rule out the need of an aggroing skill.
Quote:
| Just out of curiousity, have you tried playing as other professions in PvP, a lot? You might get a better understanding of why people would hate this skill, and why there would be more warriors. |
And once again, this really isn't a PvP-oriented skill. As for more Warriors, I don't think you can possibly stop the influx. It's just a very popular class. That doesn't make it any less of an honourable one if you play it properly.
One and Two
/not signed.
Lagg
Cattle.
Eder
Not signed at all.
Don't you think it's already silly enough that in PvE the mobs are as dumb as a door and incapable of applying more advanced strategies than "It aggro me, I chase it and kill it!"?
The fact that mobs sometimes ignore anyone but the original aggroer or an item carrier (even when he is obviously a decoy) is to me a *flaw* in the game's AI - coming up with a skill whose only purpose is ensuring that the (already subpar) AI will continue to do something totally predictable and illogical (in the rare occasions in which it doesn't already fit that bill) is, quite simply, a terrible idea.
Don't you think it's already silly enough that in PvE the mobs are as dumb as a door and incapable of applying more advanced strategies than "It aggro me, I chase it and kill it!"?
The fact that mobs sometimes ignore anyone but the original aggroer or an item carrier (even when he is obviously a decoy) is to me a *flaw* in the game's AI - coming up with a skill whose only purpose is ensuring that the (already subpar) AI will continue to do something totally predictable and illogical (in the rare occasions in which it doesn't already fit that bill) is, quite simply, a terrible idea.
striderkaaru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Funkinmofo
You would be better off proposing a rescue skill for when pulls/aggros go wrong.
Rescue: Target touched ally is knocked down for (range based on tactics) secs and out of harms way while you intercede and attack agressive melee foe. Energy - 10 Duration - based on tactics Recharge - 45 |
@lagg
your proposed solution really will take skill away from the game.
imagine that it is implemented. a pull can be done properly to get initial aggro on the tank. if anything goes wrong and aggro is broken, anyone can simply press a button and reclaim all aggro again. where is the skill involved in that? it's too easy and anyone can do it.
the way things are now, if aggro is broken, a warrior will either know what to do or not. those who don't will randomly attack an enemy while the casters get massacred. those who do know what to do know who to protect first and how.
you say that a well prepared team is penalized by broken aggro. well prepared for what? for having all aggro on the tank and the nukers nuking around him? that's a very limited build and says nothing of the skill of the players. maybe a prepared farming team will be penalized. but a well prepared team will know how to scramble and still win the battle.
Aetherfox
well for one thing : research, common sense and long experience in multiplayer gaming has shown that players do NOT like losing control over their characters for whatever reason. any ability which makes their character act in a way not of their volition = bad idea. which is why taunts are rarely implemented in serious multiplayer games.
your implementation of the skill could work though : your skill never stated that the player was compelled to act in a certain way. if you were hit by that skill in PvP you'd just immediately switch targets back to whoever you were hitting. there might be problems if you used it in IWAY (6 warriors chain casting it? haha)
and it would work fine in PvE because, well, monsters aren't quite so singleminded.
from a game mechanic and balance point of view i'd have no problem with it as a skill.
your counter argument makes no sense whatsoever by the way : you state that this skill is a response to bugs in the game that cause groups with good warriors to fail to control aggro properly : sigh, no, you should never design skills to iron out bugs. the only correct thing to do is fix the bug.
on one hand, PvE is easy enough that you can get by totally fine without an aggro shout. BUT... there is really nothing wrong with making it easier if adding skills make the game more interesting? more powerful warrior aggro control skills will mean that warriors will be more demanded in groups, and general difficulty of PvE will have to be ramped up to compensate for more powerful skills being available.
is this generally a good direction you wish the game to take? for me, the answer is no, and hence i would not agree with a.net implementing a skill of this description.
your implementation of the skill could work though : your skill never stated that the player was compelled to act in a certain way. if you were hit by that skill in PvP you'd just immediately switch targets back to whoever you were hitting. there might be problems if you used it in IWAY (6 warriors chain casting it? haha)
and it would work fine in PvE because, well, monsters aren't quite so singleminded.
from a game mechanic and balance point of view i'd have no problem with it as a skill.
your counter argument makes no sense whatsoever by the way : you state that this skill is a response to bugs in the game that cause groups with good warriors to fail to control aggro properly : sigh, no, you should never design skills to iron out bugs. the only correct thing to do is fix the bug.
on one hand, PvE is easy enough that you can get by totally fine without an aggro shout. BUT... there is really nothing wrong with making it easier if adding skills make the game more interesting? more powerful warrior aggro control skills will mean that warriors will be more demanded in groups, and general difficulty of PvE will have to be ramped up to compensate for more powerful skills being available.
is this generally a good direction you wish the game to take? for me, the answer is no, and hence i would not agree with a.net implementing a skill of this description.
Jetdoc
I'd love this for PvP...you automatically aggro enemy casters that are running away from you.
Krazax
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lagg
A very basic skill that any good PvE tank seems to be lacking, is the ability to (somehow) recover from a bad pull. No matter how skillful and careful a party is, these do occur, simply because of the game mechanics. So the need of an aggro-reclaiming skill arises.
I suggest a Warrior shout, with Tactics req, that makes all the enemies within his or her aggro circle, switch aggro to him. "Get Over Here!" (as an homage to Mortal Kombat) Cost: 10 energy Recharge: 30 seconds Shout. All nearby foes have a [50...80%] chance to target you. (Attrib: Tactics) (At 16 Tactics, the chance should be 100%.) Would this work in PvP? As my guildmate Sitting Sparrow suggested, this would work to some extent. Think of the chaos on the other team if everyone started targeting that Warrior at the same time. This could greatly hamper their coordinated calling. |
Tho I can give your props for your MK homage, I can't say I agree with your idea. Being able to pull aggro on all mobs to you is too powerful and it does make the game easier, and not more challenging.
I had been thinking to myself that warriors needed some form of a rescue skill. You know for when you've mopped up your mobs and those darn pesky ones are chasing the frail casters around, and just don't seem to want to NOT attack them despite how much you wail on them?
Well bro, there is a skill and it works rather nicely in this circumstance. It's just named something completely unrelated to what you use it for: Bull's Strike. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/137-bull-s-strike This is warriror rescue. Works with all weapon types. What's nice about it, is it even works as a dmg attack b/c it has a dmg bonus. After you knock down your target, by the time he gets up, he'll be fighting you.
Man With No Name
Be nice to give Warriors something -- this wouldn't be it though...
I'd prefer them to boost the normal running speed -- so that we're faster than normal classes. The ability to swing on the run, so to speak -- rather than play the stop to swing animation and maybe making Strength give it's 2% penetration per point again ( on attack skills ).
Strength is seriously lacking as a Primary, in my opinion. Certainly not as good as either Divine Favour or Expertise...
These are the buff's I'd do at least...
I'd prefer them to boost the normal running speed -- so that we're faster than normal classes. The ability to swing on the run, so to speak -- rather than play the stop to swing animation and maybe making Strength give it's 2% penetration per point again ( on attack skills ).
Strength is seriously lacking as a Primary, in my opinion. Certainly not as good as either Divine Favour or Expertise...
These are the buff's I'd do at least...
neoteo
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the game mechanics of an FPS shooter are completely different from an RPG.
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true , but this RPG game is inovative in the mecanics comparing to old school RPG games , in this game you can dodge atacks ... its not yet a halflife 2 gravaty pull phisics ... but dodging atacks makes combat depend a lot more on position/running skills.
the game mechanics of an FPS shooter are completely different from an RPG.
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true , but this RPG game is inovative in the mecanics comparing to old school RPG games , in this game you can dodge atacks ... its not yet a halflife 2 gravaty pull phisics ... but dodging atacks makes combat depend a lot more on position/running skills.
Rajamic
How can you be sure AI aggro changing is a bug?
Here's how I see it.
When a PC gets in aggro range of an NPC, that NPC and all the rest of his team charge at that PC.
When the NPC gets to that PC, they will do one of 2 things:
1) Attack the PC that aggroed them, or
2) Pick a different, easier PC that is now in their aggro range and charge them. They then repeat this choice.
Periodically throughout the fight, they will examine how effective they are being against their target. Sometimes, they will decide that they aren't winning the fight and try someone else (again, going for a easier target).
The way they decide who is easy seems to depend on 3 things:
1) The potential target's AL
2) How close the potential target is to the NPC
3) Whether the potential target is running around or standing still.
Thus, with 2 simple strategies, you can create something similar to this skill you suggest, without wasting a skill slot, that works great on warrior enemies. Others shouldn't ever see your non-Warriors unless/until they have to do #2.
1) Have a Warrior pull the enemies. Make sure all Warriors are next to each other when the enemies get to the puller. Make sure no one else has the Warriors in their aggro circles when the enemies arrive at the pullers.
2) The Warriors should, whenever possible, stand still during the fighting. If you are not a Warrior and an NPC decides to attack you, begin running circles around the Warriors. Before too long, the NPC will likely decide he's not doing enough damage to you and switch back to the stationary Warrior.
Here's how I see it.
When a PC gets in aggro range of an NPC, that NPC and all the rest of his team charge at that PC.
When the NPC gets to that PC, they will do one of 2 things:
1) Attack the PC that aggroed them, or
2) Pick a different, easier PC that is now in their aggro range and charge them. They then repeat this choice.
Periodically throughout the fight, they will examine how effective they are being against their target. Sometimes, they will decide that they aren't winning the fight and try someone else (again, going for a easier target).
The way they decide who is easy seems to depend on 3 things:
1) The potential target's AL
2) How close the potential target is to the NPC
3) Whether the potential target is running around or standing still.
Thus, with 2 simple strategies, you can create something similar to this skill you suggest, without wasting a skill slot, that works great on warrior enemies. Others shouldn't ever see your non-Warriors unless/until they have to do #2.
1) Have a Warrior pull the enemies. Make sure all Warriors are next to each other when the enemies get to the puller. Make sure no one else has the Warriors in their aggro circles when the enemies arrive at the pullers.
2) The Warriors should, whenever possible, stand still during the fighting. If you are not a Warrior and an NPC decides to attack you, begin running circles around the Warriors. Before too long, the NPC will likely decide he's not doing enough damage to you and switch back to the stationary Warrior.
NatalieD
Man. After playing City of Heroes and World of Warcraft, when I got to Guild Wars I thought it was totally awesome that tanking doesn't mean standing around yelling insults at monsters, and you have to worry about things like positioning and actually blocking off an enemy's approach to your squishies. But I guess there will always be people who want to stick with the conventional ways...
Racthoh
Half and half on it.
The concept behind it seems alright, but like some have said it does away some of the skill behind the art of aggroing a mob. However, I have been in PUGs time and time again and the concept of the warrior grabbing the enemies just doesn't click with some people. It could be used as a valuable teaching tool to those who are new to the game playing with veterans. If everyone knew these valuable strategies then why bother bringing any form of res in PvE? Mistakes happen, and you have those skills to counter those blunders.
But at the same time, the abuse would be endless. It's bad enough players use the book trick in FoW, the gears in SF to make matters easy. What do they gain from exploiting these tactics? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
The concept behind it seems alright, but like some have said it does away some of the skill behind the art of aggroing a mob. However, I have been in PUGs time and time again and the concept of the warrior grabbing the enemies just doesn't click with some people. It could be used as a valuable teaching tool to those who are new to the game playing with veterans. If everyone knew these valuable strategies then why bother bringing any form of res in PvE? Mistakes happen, and you have those skills to counter those blunders.
But at the same time, the abuse would be endless. It's bad enough players use the book trick in FoW, the gears in SF to make matters easy. What do they gain from exploiting these tactics? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
cataphract
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lagg
Even if you know your job, things can go wrong.
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/notsigned
edit: by adding that shout, you'd have to add "Go away!" shout too. that one would enable the warrior to scare off aggroed monsters by roaring and flapping his hands like a mad man. there's no need for such Diablo-like skills.
neoteo
normaly agrro on warrior fails cose others are moving ... holding still helps on this ...
and when casters are aproching warrior try to make a line in witch warrior is 100% in front covering mobs from you ...
what more to say ...
and when casters are aproching warrior try to make a line in witch warrior is 100% in front covering mobs from you ...
what more to say ...
Undivine
On the one hand I agree with a lot of people here that such a skill would remove the challenge out of being a warrior. On the other hand, when an enemy gets fixated on the monk there is absolutely NO way to save him unless you can kill that enemy before he causes a lot of damage. By "damage" I don't just mean killing the monk, I mean preventing the monk from doing his vital job of keeping everyone else alive.
Your suggestion is too powerful and has no use in PvE. If we add an aggro skill at all (and I'm not sure if I approve or not), I'd prefer it be like this:
(Stance) Insufferable Taunt (I'm taking some creative liberty here.
)
Energy: 5
Recharge: 50 (Or just really high, you get the point)
For 7 seconds, target foe cannot attack or cast offensive spells on anyone except for you. However, you take (350 - 200)% damage from his attacks and spells, and his hexes last (350 - 200)% of their normal duration on you. All your stance skills are disabled for 7 seconds.
This allows you to save someone from being targeted in PvE, and also has it's use in PvP. It's not terribly overpowered either. Matter of fact, you'd have to be very cautious using this skill, but it could end up being essential in certain situations.
Obviously I haven't playtested this or anything, so little tweaks and such here and there, but I think you get the overall idea.
That is... IF a taunt skill of any sort is really neccessary, and I haven't decided if it is.
Your suggestion is too powerful and has no use in PvE. If we add an aggro skill at all (and I'm not sure if I approve or not), I'd prefer it be like this:
(Stance) Insufferable Taunt (I'm taking some creative liberty here.
)Energy: 5
Recharge: 50 (Or just really high, you get the point)
For 7 seconds, target foe cannot attack or cast offensive spells on anyone except for you. However, you take (350 - 200)% damage from his attacks and spells, and his hexes last (350 - 200)% of their normal duration on you. All your stance skills are disabled for 7 seconds.
This allows you to save someone from being targeted in PvE, and also has it's use in PvP. It's not terribly overpowered either. Matter of fact, you'd have to be very cautious using this skill, but it could end up being essential in certain situations.
Obviously I haven't playtested this or anything, so little tweaks and such here and there, but I think you get the overall idea.
That is... IF a taunt skill of any sort is really neccessary, and I haven't decided if it is.
Undivine
Sorry RoF... I didn't see your post. 
Funk ee Monk ee
/signed with a catch ...
I loved using Taunt in WC3 with mountain giants. How about a Taunt to take aggro, but take 100% more damage and suffer a random condition. Or expiration of shoutl, all mobs converge on one caster. There has to be a negative, pve is easy enough as it is.
I loved using Taunt in WC3 with mountain giants. How about a Taunt to take aggro, but take 100% more damage and suffer a random condition. Or expiration of shoutl, all mobs converge on one caster. There has to be a negative, pve is easy enough as it is.