3 man Furnace farming
Me NoFat
Did this by chance last night. Went out with 2 Monks (heal and prot) 1 echo Ele and 2 stance W...only group I could find when I wanted to farm. The Ele got kicked when we zoned into SF...no problem lets keep going see what we can do....After about 20 min of playing and killing a boss the prot monk decided to leave. The 2 W's and myself were getting rdy to call it when I said that there was another boss just ahead...do you want to try...sure thing we killed that boss without a death....the 3 of us ended up clearing SF before the night was done...anyone else done 3 man farming in SF? I believe that 2 W and one heal Mo is a great group for it becuse the first W can start the aggro and the 2nd W can pick up the passers heading for the monk...monk just has to be careful to stay out of aggro.
2_fingers
Is it possible? Yes it is.
Is it constantly possible? I doubt it. In your case the warriors were actively trying to protect u. Alot of the times however, no one comes when the monk's health starts to drop. Too many 'if's and potential pitfalls that can arise from a pug if u ask me. Probably would work great in a guild group or a bunch of friends.
Is it constantly possible? I doubt it. In your case the warriors were actively trying to protect u. Alot of the times however, no one comes when the monk's health starts to drop. Too many 'if's and potential pitfalls that can arise from a pug if u ask me. Probably would work great in a guild group or a bunch of friends.
Lorien of Mandos
Please don't interpret my low number posts to be indiciative of me being a new player, i'm not...
Anyway, is the extra 5% (or close to it) chance of a green drop really worth forming a team that has to be hitting perfectly on all cylinders perfectly to work? My answer would have to be 'no.' I usually form 5-person teams and do Final Assault farming - you can hit something like 6 bosses (correct me if im wrong please) in approx 30 mins with a decent team. I usually look for stance W, 1 heal, 1 prot, 1 nuker, me as minions master and curses. Like I said, can usually clear the bosses from FA in about 30 mins, how long did it take to clear out with just 3 people?? With the reduced damage output due to only 3 people it seems that it would probably be a bit longer with an increased chance of dying if things go less than perfectly. Seems like an awful lot of worry over just a few %. Of course my argument just goes to hell if you are just trying this as a challenge to be overcome rather than farming for greens. If thats the case, cheers to you, and I wish you luck in perfecting the setup for a 3-person team.
EDIT: sorry for the 'tude at the start - Im not trying to start my run on these forums trying to sound like i am all uber anything...plus, you can't see number of posts here like you can on some of the other forums I post on...
Anyway, is the extra 5% (or close to it) chance of a green drop really worth forming a team that has to be hitting perfectly on all cylinders perfectly to work? My answer would have to be 'no.' I usually form 5-person teams and do Final Assault farming - you can hit something like 6 bosses (correct me if im wrong please) in approx 30 mins with a decent team. I usually look for stance W, 1 heal, 1 prot, 1 nuker, me as minions master and curses. Like I said, can usually clear the bosses from FA in about 30 mins, how long did it take to clear out with just 3 people?? With the reduced damage output due to only 3 people it seems that it would probably be a bit longer with an increased chance of dying if things go less than perfectly. Seems like an awful lot of worry over just a few %. Of course my argument just goes to hell if you are just trying this as a challenge to be overcome rather than farming for greens. If thats the case, cheers to you, and I wish you luck in perfecting the setup for a 3-person team.
EDIT: sorry for the 'tude at the start - Im not trying to start my run on these forums trying to sound like i am all uber anything...plus, you can't see number of posts here like you can on some of the other forums I post on...
Amused Observer
Lorien, you come across as someone fairly experienced in farming SF. So I think the OP would excuse your "snobbish" attitude. 
j/k of course 
j/k of course
Me NoFat
no 'tude read. I appreciate the comment(s). I wasn't originally trying to do the 3 man team. Just had 2 leave. I thought it was cool that we could do it. I know there is someone out there soloing SF right now but how many of you really do that. 5 is the norm and I was just wondering if there are any cool 3 man builds out there. I am sure that I got lucky with 2 W and a Mo.
You mentioned a 5% increase. It would actually be somewhere around a 13% chance but whose counting. Also I do like a challenge...there are not too many left for me until chapter 2...besides Fissure Armor...working on that.
You mentioned a 5% increase. It would actually be somewhere around a 13% chance but whose counting. Also I do like a challenge...there are not too many left for me until chapter 2...besides Fissure Armor...working on that.
Art
[QUOTE=You mentioned a 5% increase. It would actually be somewhere around a 13% chance but whose counting.[/QUOTE]
Your math is good but your interpretations are misleading.
If green drops are independent of party size, the issue is how many people have a chance to get one. In a 5 man party, you have a 20% chance to get any green. In a 4 man party, 25% and in 3 man 33%. 13% difference yes, BUT that means you have well over a 50% greater chance of getting a green on any particular run. 33% is more than 50% greater than 20% That means a guy that does only 3 man runs -- same number of runs as you -- will have over 50% more greens, luck being equal.
I don't know from 3 man. Its certainly possible to do a quick and smooth run with 4 man.
Your math is good but your interpretations are misleading.
If green drops are independent of party size, the issue is how many people have a chance to get one. In a 5 man party, you have a 20% chance to get any green. In a 4 man party, 25% and in 3 man 33%. 13% difference yes, BUT that means you have well over a 50% greater chance of getting a green on any particular run. 33% is more than 50% greater than 20% That means a guy that does only 3 man runs -- same number of runs as you -- will have over 50% more greens, luck being equal.
I don't know from 3 man. Its certainly possible to do a quick and smooth run with 4 man.
Lorien of Mandos
I am all for increased odds of drops, IF (and it is a big if) the overall effectiveness is not decreased. I have only tried less than 5-person farming once...I was the tank (keg holder). It didn't work out too well because I kept being interupted, I need to work on a better build. Anyway - f you ever need a N/Me to experiment with making a 3 or 4 person farm team with, I would be happy to assist - Experimentation with strategy is what keeps the game interesting imo. Look me up in game anythime, see sig for char name 
stoned bob
pff i farmed with me warrior and a ele and monk for 3 hours we cleaned everything and all got a greeny and about 10k in pure gold
i tried it again but with random players its hard, it really was a perfect party
i tried it again but with random players its hard, it really was a perfect party
Batou of Nine
2 monk, 1 w/mo.
Full Heal mo, Prot and Smte mo, smite/stance w/mo. Use focus trick in SF = gg. btw, if you dont know what that trick is, it is quite simple to figure out.
Full Heal mo, Prot and Smte mo, smite/stance w/mo. Use focus trick in SF = gg. btw, if you dont know what that trick is, it is quite simple to figure out.
Art
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos
Anyway - f you ever need a N/Me to experiment with making a 3 or 4 person farm team with, I would be happy to assist
I dont think a minion master (or any other nec) really belongs on a 3 person sorrows team. I've heard of it being done, but I think it'd be a tough road to walk.
4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.
4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.
Amused Observer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdain
Also I do like a challenge...there are not too many left for me until chapter 2...besides Fissure Armor...working on that.
Say that again AFTER you beat the Titan Source quest. . . w/ a 4 man party from Courthouse.
Amused Observer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
I dont think a minion master (or any other nec) really belongs on a 3 person sorrows team. I've heard of it being done, but I think it'd be a tough road to walk.
4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak. N/Mo is ideal for a MM b/c of the heal area spell.
4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak. N/Mo is ideal for a MM b/c of the heal area spell.
super dooper
I hope you are only referring to a Minion Master with your N/Me thing. Feast of Corruption = dead crap everywhere, especially if you have 2 or more. (Necros, that is)
Lorien of Mandos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.
I use exactly 0 skills from my secondary profession - blood of master and verata's sacrifice are sufficient to heal my minions, so there is no need for me to take att point away from death, curses, or soul reaping to invest in healing to bring heal area for them. a well-placed mark of pain insures that mobs are dying fast enough that the 2 heals i do bring for my minions are effective. Ive said in other posts (maybe on different forums, i forget what I have posted where) but i just cant see a valid argument against bringing a minion necro when you are looking at a smaller party - why would you not want a party member that can summon more allies and turn the odds in your favor?
2_fingers
I use cry of frustration on my mm. To stop them from using my mobs. Dun need heal area - minions dying gives me energy and i can keep them alife with VS and BoM
Art
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos
I use exactly 0 skills from my secondary profession
Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs. Ok, your preferred use of points is in curses rather than a secondary. Not my thing personally, but I understand and respect the logic. However, what is your elite and is it better than Glyph of Energy from elementalist line which requires no points in a secondary? Perfectly suited for minion masters that use bone fiends. Also, can you spare a slot for glyph of lesser energy, also requires no points? Just some ideas that respect your focus, but might fit right in.
As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!
As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!
Sax Dakota
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs. Ok, your preferred use of points is in curses rather than a secondary. Not my thing personally, but I understand and respect the logic. However, what is your elite and is it better than Glyph of Energy from elementalist line which requires no points in a secondary? Perfectly suited for minion masters that use bone fiends. Also, can you spare a slot for glyph of lesser energy, also requires no points? Just some ideas that respect your focus, but might fit right in.
As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!
I use this build actually. My Guild and I, normally take a 4 man group. 1 war, 1 ele, 1 Minion, and 1 healer. Works great, we can even take the furnace gaurdians. There are only 3 elites that I would consider for a MM, Spiteful Spirit, Feast of Corruption, or Glyph of Energy. The problem with running spiteful and feast, is that I more than likely have to take out of my death magic and or my soul reaping. Which is not something I want to do, consider I cannot afford to have no energy. Glyph allows me to get a free bone fiend practically. I also do not need any skill points for this skill to work effectively.
As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!
I use this build actually. My Guild and I, normally take a 4 man group. 1 war, 1 ele, 1 Minion, and 1 healer. Works great, we can even take the furnace gaurdians. There are only 3 elites that I would consider for a MM, Spiteful Spirit, Feast of Corruption, or Glyph of Energy. The problem with running spiteful and feast, is that I more than likely have to take out of my death magic and or my soul reaping. Which is not something I want to do, consider I cannot afford to have no energy. Glyph allows me to get a free bone fiend practically. I also do not need any skill points for this skill to work effectively.
2_fingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs.
Have you ever playing a mm in a pug? Alot of the times, the players cant be bothered to take out the gnashers/binders first. This is where ur secondary, ur mesmer interupts come in EXTREMELY handy. You dun need fastcasting to disable their spells because their spells take around 2 - 3 sec to cast. (however you wont be able to interupt monks) Having that interupt is extremely useful. CoF furthermore is an aoe interupt spell meaning that if on the odd chance that there are a few necro mobs trying to take the body before u, u interupt all of them. As for elites, its really a personal choice as you dun really have energy problems if you have soul reaping and know how to read the game (i.e. well of power,simply waiting etc.)
I dun use spiteful spiri because i like a build designed for spite (a. echo + spite) - that build damage o/p is far higher with maxed curses. I rather have WoP to keep the tank and my horrors alive. But that's just a personal peferance. Some necros go BiP which is another good alternative as it pumps juice into monks. (Though good monks can keep a group of 4-5 alive under most conditions w/o BiP)
Have you ever playing a mm in a pug? Alot of the times, the players cant be bothered to take out the gnashers/binders first. This is where ur secondary, ur mesmer interupts come in EXTREMELY handy. You dun need fastcasting to disable their spells because their spells take around 2 - 3 sec to cast. (however you wont be able to interupt monks) Having that interupt is extremely useful. CoF furthermore is an aoe interupt spell meaning that if on the odd chance that there are a few necro mobs trying to take the body before u, u interupt all of them. As for elites, its really a personal choice as you dun really have energy problems if you have soul reaping and know how to read the game (i.e. well of power,simply waiting etc.)
I dun use spiteful spiri because i like a build designed for spite (a. echo + spite) - that build damage o/p is far higher with maxed curses. I rather have WoP to keep the tank and my horrors alive. But that's just a personal peferance. Some necros go BiP which is another good alternative as it pumps juice into monks. (Though good monks can keep a group of 4-5 alive under most conditions w/o BiP)
Sax Dakota
only reason why I don't go BiP, is because Im already sack'ing health keeping the minions alive.
neoteo
1 warrior 1 necro 1 monk
1 warrior 1 ele 1 monk
a good minium master would make it much faster then a good ele
my fav farm build is 1 w 1 m 1 e 1 n
the usual 1 w 2 m 2 e , or 1 w 2 m 1 e 1 n , makes it faster ...
1 warrior 1 ele 1 monk
a good minium master would make it much faster then a good ele
my fav farm build is 1 w 1 m 1 e 1 n
the usual 1 w 2 m 2 e , or 1 w 2 m 1 e 1 n , makes it faster ...
Art
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
Have you ever playing a mm in a pug? Alot of the times, the players cant be bothered to take out the gnashers/binders first. This is where ur secondary, ur mesmer interupts come in EXTREMELY handy.
Yes, I play MM in pugs all the time, and frequently garner compliments from the group as my group of 15-20 lvl 18 minions (mostly fiends) rip through enemies with a total of well over 100 dps. Its true pugs don't generally target gnashers & binders first. I watch for death's like a hawk and instantly start to raise. With my fast casting bonuses from items, two minion spells (in case one has been used or disabled), plentiful energy via sr and skills, I lose a small number of corpses, and the group has to deal with an occassional well of suffering, which is a definite negative. Not that big of a deal by any means. If you can truly prevent that while still raising and maintaining a massive army (say at least 12+ fiends for the majority of final assault farming), and also while moving quickly so you don't keep the group waiting too long after a fight, then sure, that cant be a bad build. If you think you can demonstrate and convince, I'd be happy to take you FA farming sometime.
Me NoFat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amused Observer
Say that again AFTER you beat the Titan Source quest. . . w/ a 4 man party from Courthouse.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=57882
I have
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=57882
I have
saphir
i love playing my mm especially for farming. used to go out in 3 person groups of sf clearing w/ w, mo, mm when the greens were plentiful and sf was challenging. these days i find it much more rewarding drop-wise to repeat 5/6 person sf runs.
i generally run w/ 2 summons (fiend/horror), b o master/v sacr/heal area for maintanence, taste for emergencies, and vengence for fun hehe. veng, taste and 1 last slot are all open for anything including elites.
in a party of 5/6 i usually have 16-30 lvl18/19 fiends/minions if the war and ele know what they are doing. nothing is worse than some tank wasting their time hacking at a monk boss while the crushers kill of your minions and your monk. or the ele who casts meteor shower on a crusher rushing your monk while the rest of the enemies are gathered around the war.
w/ a 3 person group, usually you're much busier keeping the darn minions alive. as long as the war is very self sufficient, carries at least an interrupt for the caster bosses, and knows how to take the aggro off your minions (nothing is worse than a crusher hacking thru your fiends), and keeps the gnasher near the top of the priority list, your team will slice right thru the mobs. not only is it fun, but challenging. it really requires a good warrior who knows how to keep manage, when to call a retreat, and when to sacrifice =). unfortunately it's probably not the most time effective farming method.
i generally run w/ 2 summons (fiend/horror), b o master/v sacr/heal area for maintanence, taste for emergencies, and vengence for fun hehe. veng, taste and 1 last slot are all open for anything including elites.
in a party of 5/6 i usually have 16-30 lvl18/19 fiends/minions if the war and ele know what they are doing. nothing is worse than some tank wasting their time hacking at a monk boss while the crushers kill of your minions and your monk. or the ele who casts meteor shower on a crusher rushing your monk while the rest of the enemies are gathered around the war.
w/ a 3 person group, usually you're much busier keeping the darn minions alive. as long as the war is very self sufficient, carries at least an interrupt for the caster bosses, and knows how to take the aggro off your minions (nothing is worse than a crusher hacking thru your fiends), and keeps the gnasher near the top of the priority list, your team will slice right thru the mobs. not only is it fun, but challenging. it really requires a good warrior who knows how to keep manage, when to call a retreat, and when to sacrifice =). unfortunately it's probably not the most time effective farming method.
Ollj
Just practicing some 3 man farming in sorrows furnace.
At first we tried one warrior monk with holy wrath and only adrenaline skills and a heal and prot monk with a ton of maintained enchantments. I was the warrior, i loved the attention i pulled with a wand that i just found, doing 4 wand damage per attack and 4-11 damage per holy wrath attack, when i was save and full of adrenaline i went to melee, we did it till the second hall in sorrows furnace, we had no chance against heal bosses whatsoever, we didnt slap the yak boss, enchantment removal killed us many times but not allways, holy wrath was allways on me.
The day after same people but i was prot monk this time and we changed from bonding to no maintained skill at all. One smiting healer, one smiting protector and a basic axe paladin. With scource healing and the axe interrupt we could easily kill any mob.
We were just as fast as an 8 man group, if not faster, because our recharge time was shorter than the recharge times of elementalists and we killed in the same speed.
We barely got any green drop.
We didnt even use teamspeak yet.
noone had any res skill, why should we, if one dies were doomed anyways
we didnt get as far as the day before but we were practicing anyways, and we have been more effective for sure.
its as exciting as holding the halls of heroes, and damn funny.
+155 xp for a diing yakslapper without any scroll.
image text is german:
7 inspiration
8+4 smiting (zealots fire does area DoT and smite hex is a good area spike)
8+3 protection (this is a prot monk )
12+3 divine (note than divine spirit lasts really long and this heals alot)
sequence: (yakslapper) 4 4 4 876 (now switch from yakslapper to items that give faster skill recharge) 123123 5 123123 4 123123 123123 86 5 123123 4 123123 4 ... (use 5 to smite a hex if there is a mesmer or necro, if not just use it to trigger zealots fire, use 4 carefully and defensive, its too expensive for this build but essential on self because you have 3 superior runes.)
At first we tried one warrior monk with holy wrath and only adrenaline skills and a heal and prot monk with a ton of maintained enchantments. I was the warrior, i loved the attention i pulled with a wand that i just found, doing 4 wand damage per attack and 4-11 damage per holy wrath attack, when i was save and full of adrenaline i went to melee, we did it till the second hall in sorrows furnace, we had no chance against heal bosses whatsoever, we didnt slap the yak boss, enchantment removal killed us many times but not allways, holy wrath was allways on me.
The day after same people but i was prot monk this time and we changed from bonding to no maintained skill at all. One smiting healer, one smiting protector and a basic axe paladin. With scource healing and the axe interrupt we could easily kill any mob.
We were just as fast as an 8 man group, if not faster, because our recharge time was shorter than the recharge times of elementalists and we killed in the same speed.
We barely got any green drop.
We didnt even use teamspeak yet.
noone had any res skill, why should we, if one dies were doomed anyways
we didnt get as far as the day before but we were practicing anyways, and we have been more effective for sure.
its as exciting as holding the halls of heroes, and damn funny.
+155 xp for a diing yakslapper without any scroll.
image text is german:
7 inspiration
8+4 smiting (zealots fire does area DoT and smite hex is a good area spike)
8+3 protection (this is a prot monk
)12+3 divine (note than divine spirit lasts really long and this heals alot)
sequence: (yakslapper) 4 4 4 876 (now switch from yakslapper to items that give faster skill recharge) 123123 5 123123 4 123123 123123 86 5 123123 4 123123 4 ... (use 5 to smite a hex if there is a mesmer or necro, if not just use it to trigger zealots fire, use 4 carefully and defensive, its too expensive for this build but essential on self because you have 3 superior runes.)