PvE Mesmer Niche/Options?

What are some Mesmer combinations that excel? I wanted to try one out, but am not really sure of where Mesmers shine in PvE.

For example, Mesmer/Elementalist does not appear to do as much damage as Elementalist/Mesmer (though it might be fun).

I saw someone playing a Mesmer/Warrior which was kind of interesting, but did not appear to be particularly effective melee wise (though their skills may have been poorly chosen).

Is the Mesmer niche mainly anti-caster in PvE? Or anti-melee if you go M/N, I suppose.

Thank you

Against very high armor level monsters, mesmer probably nuke better than eles. Use chaos storm, power surge, cry of frustation, shatter hex, backfire, etc. If you're a mesmer who like nuking, you're much better off using mesmer chaos dmg nukes then ele ones, especially considering that a mes can't handle exhaustion.

With sig of midnight and plague touch with spirit of failure you can keep tons of melee mobs blind, very useful. Even better is a mes/el with blinding flash, mantra of recovery, and spirit of failure for doing the same thing. Normal anti-warrior illusion mesmers are subpar in pve, since monster warriors can usually deal horrendous dmg even without adrenaline.

Migraine Conundrum interrupt mesmer is good in pve just like pvp for taking out monk mob or disabling other caster mobs.

If you want to take advantage of your secondary, necro spells all benefit alot from fast casting, and inspiration energy management. I really hate playing nec primaries because of how slow their spells are. Fire ele spells are also helped by it, but that still doesn't make up for loss of fire runes and energy storage IMO, might make it easy to get parties from people who are confused by normal mesmers though (fast cast nuker just has a ring to it).

Don't do mes/war in pve. You shouldn't need the stances as you should never have aggro as a mesmer, and going melee with a mesmer is suicide if you're built for offense, and if you're built to withstand melee you're probably a less than useful character (if you're a non-warrior).

For some odd reason, I see alot of me/mo's in pve trying to heal. Don't do this, nothing a mesmer primary has will make you a good healer. The only non-primary that can heal is ele, and that's equivalent to a mesmer fire nuker, moderately good but not as good as the real thing.

To quickly sum up, for pve, pure dom/insp chaos nuker/anticaster mes is best, followed by mes/nec hexer, then pure illusion/insp, then mes/el fire nuker. If you plan on going pure mes, which I recommend, you should consider going monk soley for rebirth.

Thank you for the great information.

I like the idea of a pure Mesmer.

Do you have any links to pure dom/insp chaos nuker/anticaster skill/attribute layouts or could you sketch one out so I can have an idea what to shoot for?

Mesmer has always been a bit confusing to me.

Well, if I remember correctly surge is a pain to get, so you might have to wait on it, but here's what I use for pve:

Arcane echo, energy surge, backfire, chaos storm, shatter hex OR cry of frustation, depending on area, power drain, energy tap or drain enchant or inspired hex, depending on area, res sig.

Use arcane echo on energy surge, usually, unless you're up against a monk boss or something, then echo backfire. Energy tap is pretty crappy, but it's nice not having to worry about mobs who don't enchant or hex.

Btw, energy surge has an absurd aoe, so you don't have to worry about clustering. Same goes for cry of frustation, and shatter hex is pretty big as well, though nerfed recently.

Just sketching it out, something like this?

Pure PvE Mesmer/Monk

Inspiration (about half points)
Domination (about half points)
Fast Casting (rest of points)


Arcane Echo
Energy Surge
Backfire
Chaos Storm
Cry of Frustration
Power Drain
Energy Tap/Drain Enchant/Inspired Hex
Rebirth (from Monk side)

Secondary Monk the way to go for a pure Mesmer? It seems like an odd choice just to have rebirth (rez)? Does it have the greatest synergy?

Thank you for the replies!

Me/e can be the shit for a "fast echoe fire nuker"
fast castting 10
fire 12
inspiration/domination/illusion

ok .. u ALWAYS need to have equiped the following for skills

Metoer shower
Glyph of lesser energy
Fire storm
echoe / arcane echoe

then the other four u could have domination for interupts and mana ,,, inspiration for a mantra heliang and some mana ...... and of course .. ilf u wanna go all dramage illusion will do ..... trust me that combo its devcastating ... fire nukes .. and then while ur nuking skills reload u cast phamtom paind and phantasm ........ plus ... ur hard to interupt since u got fast casting and u CAST HTE NUKES WHEN U NEED THEM NOT WHEN THE FOE ITS HALFWAY DEAD (the elementals know what im tlaking about ) domination its the next best ofpion .. so u can anoy the crap outta monks and then nuke som eass

Well, like I said before, mesmer fire nukers will never be that good, since you don't have the max energy to handle exhaustion without downtime that will be annoying to your party, and most importantly, you can't use runes to get your stat up to 16. It's more the kinda thing to do if you decided that you would have enjoyed ele more, but don't want to reroll.

To the post before that... monk has absolutely no synergy with mesmer skills, but if you're going pure mesmer, you might as well take a secondary with a res spell. Being able to save your party from a wipe is pretty cool.

edit: and yeah, that's about how you'd run it. It's safe to dump ALL your stats into insp and dom, all the way up to 12, and just put leftovers (2 points I think) into fast casting. Fast castings really only useful for energy tap anyways (in that particular build), and and you're going to be stretching your energy bar pretty thin anyways, so pumping more spells out faster won't be that useful. As far as runes go, you should aim to get dom up to 16, with a headpiece + sup rune, and just use a minor for inspiration.

I currently have 3 Mesmer builds that all work pretty well depending on what is needed.

Pure Mesmer - Interrupts + hexes for dmg.

Dom = 16
FC = 9
Insp = 11

Empathy
Backfire
Power Spike
Cry of Frustration
Power Drain
Chaos Storm
Echo (E)
Rez

Nice all rounder, the echo is dead handy as it allows extra emapthy/ interrupt/ Chaos Storm
depending on what is appropriate. Arcance Conudrum is handy if you can fit it in as it makes
monk spam heals interruptable...

Turbo Nuke - Me/E

FC = 16
Fire = 12
Other = who cares?

Elemental Attunement (E)
Fire Attunement
Meteor Shower
Rodgorts Invocation
Searing Heat
Incendary Bonds
Fire Storms
Rez

Funny and finely balanced. If you lose an enchantment, you're screwed, if one gets interrupted
(especially meteor shower) you're screwed. When it works you get the whole volly off in 8.5
secs and that's just funny to watch!

Life Suck - Me/N

Illusion = 13
Blood Magic = 12
FC = What's left (can't remember)

Conjure Phantasm
Phantom Pain
Life Transfer (E)
Life Siphon
Vampiric Gaze
Clumsiness
Illusion of Weakness
Rez

More PvP that PvE, simple enough, go in stick degen arrows on watch life bar shrink. This is
surprisingly handy for taking out monks. If you can think of anything better than Vampiric
Gaze then please let me know!

Sorry, this post is huge...

I wrote this article a while ago now for another forum, I hope its of some use?

Mesmers: We aren’t just your secondary profession.

This is an article I decided I needed to write to answer all those questions I constantly see on forums. It will prove to people outside of a very knowledgeable few that Mesmers are here for a reason, and that reason is not just to provide energy management for a poorly managed character. This article will also provide some information on skill usage; both in PvE and PvP to also kill the argument the Mesmers are useless in PvE. I’ll also highlight other strengths of the Mesmer in an attempt to explain to experienced and new players how they are best played.

PvE Mesmers: “What are those purple sparkles?”

I have played a Mesmer since day one, actually since before day one way back in November I started playing a Mesmer because it seemed to suit my mentality best. I won’t argue that Mesmers prosper better in PvP because you cannot get inside the head of an AI controlled monster, and make them worry about what they are going to do next. That doesn’t mean you can’t prevent things from happening and use their own attacks against them. The best way to think of a PvE Mesmer is like the old guy in the karate kid films!! Small, and seemingly underpowered to deal with the situation but, put to good use can leather five muscular men into the ground with relative ease. Using a monsters weight against itself can soon bring it down. Mesmers will never be able to match the damage output of an elementalist or the damage taking prowess of the warrior, but we can make the life of both classes so much easier, and take the stress off a monk’s back as well as providing some damage.

An interrupted skill is a skill that the monk did not need to heal or protect against. A warrior monster unable to gain adrenaline can be ignored as he beats on your friendly healer who is enchanted with sympathetic visage, killing himself with Empathy. Blackout that nasty Mursaat monk, and watch how quickly he goes down. Mesmers in PvE need to be played as a support class, not providing massive damage but preventing the enemy from doing so, while gently adding progressive damage and limiting what the monsters are capable of doing.

The problem with Mesmers in PvE is not the Mesmers being useless, its that most players play them incorrectly. The sheer number of Me/E’s that I see charge into battle fast cast five massive spells, and stay there screaming for heals, saying they have no energy is saddening because it gives all Mesmers a bad name. Take a well played mesmer, with the correct skills into Thunderhead Keep, supposedly a hard mission a mesmer will make it so easy you can practically go for a coffee you spend so much time waiting for something to do! Those nasty hexes are shattered and used against the enemy for damage, those pesky Elementalist Mursaat are shot down mid cast and are dead within three seconds! The damn Mursaat monk who you could spend an age killing with his Aura of Faith, is stripped, interrupted and diverted waiting to be killed.

I’ll agree that in the low end PvE a mesmer is not really needed, and you can hurry through faster with “Tanks, Healers and Nukes!” but look beyond that later into the game, and you’ll find you have a much easier time with a mesmer on board. Not only that you’ll find that Mesmers are more experienced in the workings of the game than any “Tank” we have to be, because we need to pay attention to everything not just the flames climbing in our adrenaline skills.

Types of Pure Mesmer: Interrupt, Prevention and Shutdown.

There may be more, but I’d like to focus on these types of Mesmer, because these are the types that are currently in favour and the types that I like to play.

The Interrupt Mesmer: Most people would’ve been hit by these, in the standard PvE game, and know exactly what their player is thinking then you spend three seconds casting a spell only to see “!#%*!” appear above your head just as you finish it. Its annoying, it’s a waste of energy, you have to wait for the spell to recharge, your now stood there doing nothing and worst of all your rhythm is shot and you have to change your plan! Put that power into your hands, interrupt them first! Mesmers have interrupts that gain energy for them (Power Drain), interrupts that can practically empty the enemy energy pool within a ¼ second! (Power Leak) and even skills that can disable an entire attribute line (Power Block). Mesmers also have the only signet based interrupt that can gain you energy, (Leech Signet) which can be used to not only interrupt any skill, but if used correctly can restart a mesmer that has an empty energy pool.

I’d like to highlight Power Leak as my favourite skill from this line, not only does it interrupt any spell causing it to become useless, but at high levels of domination it also takes up to 27 energy from the enemy pool. Granted you don’t gain this energy but that 27 energy could be used for them healing, them casting spells on you, them weakening you warriors, or even removing hexes that you have taken the time to put on them. Energy pool damage is more harmful in many ways than direct damage because it can make killing them a whole lot easier.

The Prevention Mesmer: Make things not happen, I’m not talking about interrupts this time, I’m talking about inducing failure or better still scaring the enemy into not casting. Backfire is a prime example of this, even some PvE monsters now stop casting when backfired that skill alone can buy you ten seconds of free time. Moving on because most people are now aware of the power of backfire, which is why I no longer carry it in my skill bar. “Shame” can make a healer fail to cast a spell and steal energy from them and because its not widely used most people do not even know what it does, its opposite skill “Guilt” prevents offensive magic and steals energy which can take weight off the shoulders of your healer.

Prevention doesn’t stop at casters though; Clumsiness can buy a couple of seconds out of an enemy warrior’s onslaught. Soothing images can be used to prevent enemies gaining adrenaline, while Empathy can make people think twice about swinging their weapon at you. All of these put pressure on enemy healers, even in PvE because it provides a steady flow of damage while successfully reducing the damage output of the enemy team or group of monsters. Use sympathetic visage on your own monk while he’s getting beaten on by two hammer warriors, watch them destroy their own energy pool by continuing to swing before they realise they have no adrenaline and no energy to do that dreaded aftershock, or better still they switch to a different target, which buys you a couple of seconds and prevents them dealing any damage at all.

Prevention is better than cure.

The Shutdown Mesmer: Ultimately, what most inexperienced Mesmers try to be and fail at. Spamming “Diversion” although annoying just does not cut it not only does it empty your own energy pool, it’s a 6 second hex that can not only be removed/shattered/smited and used against you but it can usually be waited off and casted between. Diversion is an awesome spell to have at your disposal, but like other Mesmer skills it has to be used to effect. Divert something useful; divert something that’s causing you a lot of problems, or a short skill that the enemy seems to be relying upon. (Draw Conditions anyone?) Don’t divert skills with already massive recharge times, its just a waste of energy because chances are those skills are just there to provide a buff to something else.

“Blackout” An extremely powerful skill but with risks involved. A seven second complete wipe out of an enemy, unblockable, unremovable and practically unavoidable. The victim of this powerful skill, might as well be dead for 7 seconds or so you would think. In those 7 seconds, the enemy monk or spell caster has just regained ten energy and makes him useful again. The ‘bigger’ skills which were recharging are just about ready again and he has the energy now to use them. Another drawback to this skill would be the fact that it is touch based, and pulls you towards the back line which may put you out of reach of your healers. A powerful skill if carefully used, learning not to blackout someone who is already doing nothing is a skill required from the player not something you can get in the game, blackout the most effective member in the enemy force and capitalise.

Now moving onto what I find the most effective type of shutdown Mesmer, and one which requires a lot of guile to play effectively. The energy restriction mesmer, a team without energy is like a team without spell casters or healers. You can take energy from a team in a number of ways, drain it for yourself, burn it to provide additional offence to your team, interrupt skills, limit the regeneration, induce failure, and even divert energy management skills. I personally play this type of mesmer in a different way to most, but find I can successfully disable two or three casters at a time and still be able to continue casting and supporting the rest of my team. Shut down does not necessarily mean disabling skills, its just making people useless.

I play a Mesmer without secondary, without blackout, without diversion and without backfire. A Mesmer has a wide spectrum of skills that are still mostly underrated by people who have not used them. Yes Mesmers are situational, but put the right skills to the right situation, they are also unmatchable.

Master the Mesmer and prepare to become first target for the enemy offence. They’ll need you gone so that they can carry on.

Thank you all for the great replies. Very helpful and enlightening!

And Karn, your writeup was excellent and instructional. Can you briefly sketch out an example of the three types of Mesmers you mentioned: Interrupt, Prevention and Shutdown?

I do not mean giving out your special builds which you have probably derived after much experimenting; but rather, some basic examples of a build that I could play with in these categories--basic attributes and skills.

Again, thank you so much you all.