Differences between a moa bird and a strider

Hello! I am new to this forum. ^^

As I have this adoration for pets in Guild Wars, there is one thing I have always been wondering: is the difference between a strider in pre-searing Ascalon and a moa bird in post-searing Ascalon only consisting in piercing damage VS slashing damage? Or are there any other differences such as size, look, or strenght?

Thank you in advance for the information!

If you tame a strider, its name will change to moa bird after a few levels. So even if there is a difference, it's a moot point.

yup quite so. I tamed a strider. upon reaching around level 8 - 10 (long time now, hard to remember) it became a moa. Once it reached around level 15 it went back to Strider, and is now a Hearty Strider. So technically I think you'll find they're the same birds, just different evolutions in level.

Ah there! So strider is either low-level or high-level for moa bird, who happens to be medium-level! But this means that the damage type (piercing-slashing) changes when the birdie levels up?

i'm a strider. but you can't tame me. =P

The damage types listed in the "UPG" are (to my knowledge) pulled from the least accurate source on the planet, the Prima guide. I have no confidence in their accuracy - the only true way to tell would be to test vs enemies that have known weaknesses vs certain damage types.

I see. I guess I shall have to test it right away!

Thanks guys!! ^^ I had been wondering that for a while.

I suspect it's just a name, much like the "snow wolf" vs "wolf".

There is a pet guide here, and also some pretty good pet information on that other site that ends in .NET.

GWGuru ~ The Ultimate Pet Guide

The Ultimate Pet Guide here on GW Guru gives you all of that information. I only included it to provide a backup independent source. Check the guide section of the main site, there is a lot of good information there. Sometimes it's even quicker and easier than using the search function here on the forums.

Forum mods -- something that might help people search better would be to link the guides/articles section of the main site into the advanced search feature of the forums. Just a thought, even though it's pretty easy to go look through the main site (it's just a bit trickier to search through).

There's nothing independent about it. The information is simply presented, with no testing or evidence, and IIRC was simply copied over from the prima guide, and was copied between the forums . Until this info is actually tested in game I'd be inclined to dismiss it. The source for it is this table:


Easy test for Moa vs Strider then - equal level, equal BM, face skeletons. Skeletons are rsistant to piercing damage. If one scores lower than the other (consistently) you have a real effect. I happen to have a lvl 20 Moa if anyone has a level 20 strider and wants to compare them. Obviously the data is wrong w.r.t. AL, pets now range up to 80 AL at level 20, and it is suspected that since they went up in increments of 3 AL previously that they go up by 4 AL per level now. The damage ranges look to be about right from my testing, though the info for the Elder Black Widow seems to be wrong, as I tested one for a while and only got hits from 16-26 IIRC (I have the data at home, ~100 strikes). It is entirely possible that it is right, but I wouldn't trust it till I see it tested.

Don't take everything written as gospel - game mechanics change often and texts don't, the prima guide was written before most changes and is not an accuate source, so anything pulling from it is suspect.

Moa bird tastes more like chicken where as strider is a lot more gamie.

Are you telling me you just copied GWOnline.net when you helped assemble the guide? You are credited with help assembling the info on that page. If that's true then the author of the page should credit the original site with the info.
I put a little bit of faith in the articles when I read them, especially when they are posted by people I normally trust for information. I'm not going to second test everything I read. I would really hope before something is posted it's tested and if it's uncertain, it really should be labeled as such. That way if there is uncertain info people will know what needs further testing.

I'm really not trying to be contentious here, but why would ReZon and Zero copy from the Prima guide, most people know the the Guide is absolute crap? They seem to do a lot of testing. Sometimes the test results seem a little disputable like pet attack rates. There are a lot of factors that could add to the error margin when timing the attack (very similar to bow attack rate). I don't spend a lot of time at that site because, well, it's kind of a heavy handed place. They wave the ban stick there like the Queen and Pope waves to the crowd.

It's going to be really hard to do the test unless someone has saved their Strider from pre-sear. Anyways, sorry if I presumed too much when I posted the info earlier, I was just trying to help and I thought the info was more solid than that.

I've PMed you

I have 2 accounts with some pre-searing characters for testing, I can easily bring a Strider forward too.

i think the guide is fairly accurate... if u have a problem with the data listed in it feel free to PM me or something... i have no problem doing some tests to confirm the data or maybe even correct it

It could well be, but my point was that it isn't independent, as the guide acquired it from the same place that the other site did, and that it hasn't been tested. I would like every bit of information in the guide tested, though it isn't necessarily convenient to do so (for example, determining that it truly is 4 AL per level would be difficult - you could test levels 1/6/11/16 and see whether the ratios are all 1.4142 between them, but that merely fails to reject the null hptohesis, and suggests that the model is likely good enough. Proving it is impossible statistically.)

Given that this is a major part of the guide, and the claimed difference between the animals it would be worth investigating. After all, the animals aren't as different as people once thought. They have the same health, AL, damage, attack rate and so on, all of which was believed to vary. They aren't even different species, as tested with Edge of Extinction - kill a wolf and EoE damages a bear for example (I've tested this). So animals are all simply "animals" by that logic. So yes, should you feel like testing it Valerius, that would be a good thing, if not I will probably do it. I have a spare slot on my second account for this kind of testing, I can just test a warthog vs a wolf vs a strider in pre-searing in the catacombs. If there are differences then I can check the Moa vs Wolf vs Dune Lizard vs Warthog post searing.

I just PM'd you Epinephrine. I forgot to add that I do have a pre-sear slot I could use. I just don't want to level a second ranger far enough to do post sear testing with a strider. I could do pre sear testing though, and I could do post sear testing with different animals on my ranger.

The more I think about it, I do find it odd that the Moa and the Strider have different damage types. I don't find it totally implausable that all previously damage type differences could be attributed inaccurate testing. There are many factors that might be missed that could give bogus readings. Things such as: a monster uses a skill that makes it more vulnerable to damage or causes a damage increase on a hit (frenzy for example), not carefully and consistantly setting the BM attribute level, not keeping the rangers skill set the same, ensuring the same pet evolution is used across different pets when comparing, not using the exact same monster for the test, latency in the connection when doing timed tests, computer system hardware when considering certain timed and other tests, and more that I probably haven't thought of.

It's these factors that made me questions 1/10 second differences in attack rates of the pets and similar timed tests. Even some of the bow test results leave me with that "I wonder" feeling. I know there is a difference in bow behaviour, I'm just not always sure how accurate the actual numbers are.

QUESTION!!!!!

Hey, first you tell me that moa bird is the less evoluted version of the strider, and now someone pops up saying that he's got a lv20 moa bird. Me I have a lv20 strider. Then they ARE two different kind of animals?
Lemme think about it: strider -> ONLY at pre-searing Ascalon, piercing damage; moa bird -> ONLY at destroyed Ascalon, slashing damage. Am I getting this right at last??? Also, do they -exactly- look the same in a matter of size etc.? Someone who has a lv20 moa bird could contact me in-game pwease?

Another question: slashing damage equals to a sword and piercing damage equals to arrow, isn't it?

Last consideration: hey, I knew there was a guide about pets in this website. It is AFTER I read it that I opened this topic, because it is there that I read the difference in the attack typ of the two birdies.

Well, went to test the difference between Moa Birds and Striders last night; one of my post sear toons ditched her pet, came back and picked up a Level 3 Moa Bird, as I wasn't going to level a strider to 20 for the purpose of a simple test. I took a pre-searing character, captured a Strider, brought it to post searing, and levelled it to have a level 3 Strider for comparison purposes.....

And my Strider became a Moa. So now I have a level 3 Moa and a level 3 Moa (actually a Strider), but I don't know that it is worth bringing the new Moa (actually a Strider) over to Kryta where there are skeletons (known to be resitant to piercing, neutral to slashing and vulnerable to blunt) given that the game has renamed it anyway.

For the record though, I have a level 20 Moa. So they do have separate names as well, if you have a level 20 Strider. Out of curiosity, does your Strider have a prefix (Hearty, Elder, Dire?) - my Moa bird doesn't. I followed a Hearty evolution pattern for it, so I suspect it's a Hearty (it's really tall), but I have no type listed. I may continue with the testing, but I feel less urgency having witnessed my pet being re-named.

This already is weird. Why do moa changes to striders, if they are two different kind of animal? Or better, if a moa changes to strider, then how can you have a lv20 moa??




My strider is an Hearty Strider - so you said they're the tallest of the evolutions? Then how do other evolutions "look" like?
It is pretty unusual that your moa bird doesn't have a prefix, so I am assuming that maybe he remained called "moa" even at lv20 just out of a bug of some kind?

Try to contact me in-game, in case, and we'll try testing more. I'm curious to solve this matter. :P

Yeah, I don't know why, but my pet has no prefix...



As to size, I've heard that "Hearty" is biggest and that "Dire" and "Elder" are smaller. In general, as the level of an enemy increases it gets bigger - I noticed necro minions are smaller at lower levels, and the lvl 17-18 horrors are much bigger than those you summon with no death magic. It could be a purely level based thing, though I wonder whether it in in fact triggered by health levels - in which case the extra health that a Hearty pet has pushes it to yet another size increase. Even in pre-searing the River Scale Tads are small, the River Scales a bit bigger, the Scale Broodcallers bigger still, and the level 4 Scale in the cave is huge compared to the others (Now, are these simly evolutions of one another? At least for the Tads, Scales and Broodcallers it's possible; they don't seem to use skills and use the same mod e of attack) - so I suspect that in a similar fashion pet gain size either through level or through the evolutions. There is no doubt that my pet has grown though, I don't recall it being that big when I got it, though the idea that it is based on health makes some sense, as it is correlated with level (thus the general trend) yet allows for the difference in evolutions.

So Lun-Sei: I would love to take you up on the testing of your level 20 Strider vs. my Level 20 Moa; I feel that since my pet doesn't show an evolution people might be able to dismiss it as a biased test however. Given the factor by which the damage is modified for a skeletion seems to be +20 AL vs piercing, -20 AL vs blunt (*) the effect should be larger than the evolution level would affect anyway, so we could do the test at 12 beastmastery and come to reasonable conclusions about damage type, if not my pet's hidden evolution. If we do the same damage we have the same damage type, and there is no difference; if the damage is off by a few points we have different evolutions of the same pet, if we are off by a factor of 1.41 (or inversely, 0.707) we either have a blunt and a slashing or a slashing and a piercing. I happen to also have a level 20 Bear, so we can confirm the damage type afterwards, provided bears actually deal slashing damage. I don't have a level 20 Warthog, but I may train one up for testing purposes as well. If Valerius would like to test his Spider (supposedly piercing damage) we can get that one as well. Anyone who wishes to participate in veryfying dmage types is welcome to submit numbers:

- My recommmendation for an easy spot to try this would be the skeleton archers outside of Bergen Hot Springs; they are always there and provide enough targets to get repeated samples, they don't use any shielding armours, frenzy or enchanments to protect, nor do they cause conditions like weakness. Provided we all test at 12 BM we can get consistency (I suggest 12 BM, as the higher the damage range we are doing the easier it is to detect differences). If you choose to participate please record your pet type, ensure that it is level 20, that you have a 12 BM, the evolution if possible and submit the raw data (**) to me via PM so as not to show the data until analysis - that way we don't skew one another's results.

I will probably go with guildmate(s) and try for a good sample size (100+ hits) by eliminating all but one of the enemy, letting only my pet attack it and using heal area (or having a guildmate use it) to keep the one enemy alive long enough to record the results. Eliminate the Horseman first to ensure that you don't need to worry about curses affecting the damage spread. Call of Haste/Protection are fine if used, as neither should alter your damage output one will simply require faster note-taking and the other will help keep your pet alive.

Thanks all in advance for any participation, let's answer these questions as soon as possible. I can of course manage it myself by simply retraining pet after pet, but if it is done as a community it'll be faster.


(*) see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=11, the damage listed is consistent with a 0.707 factor for the piercing and a 1.4142 factor for the blunt, corresponding to a -20AL/+20AL setup.
(**) by raw data I mean the actual number of hits at each damage level, rather than simply a range or average: e.g.
hits/damage
15/13
13/14
14/15
13/16
16/17
13/18
12/19
16/20
14/21

for a total of 126 hits, showing a 13-21 damage range. This will allow me to remove outliers due to critical hits (as we may have different numbers of critical hits) as well as keep the data useful for other purposes. A minimum of ((highest_noncrit-lowest_hit)+1)*5 hits would be best, preferably ((highest_noncrit-lowest_hit)+1)*10 so that we get a large enough sample for each pet. If all evolutions are recorded this data can also help with the theories on pet evolutions and damage.

Ok, my pet.

Tamed at around level 2 as a STRIDER
Upon hitting around level 10 it became a MOA BIRD
Once it reached level 15 it became a HEARTY STRIDER.

So if you tame a pre-sear strider, it will follow that evolution
If you tame a post-sear moa, it will pick up from step 2.

I have no clue on dmg, though I swear very rarely my bird interupts... but that could jsut be me imagining things. Either way the dmg isn't going to matter, unless you take it out very rarely, because even if you want a Moa permanently the only way to do that is to not let it gain exp, and that means not taking it out to fight.

If you see me in-game (Pevil Lihatuh - usa servers) feel free to contact me and I'll show you how my Strider looks at level 20

edit: bah i was gonna post a pic but I don't have it anymore. There used to be a pet thread where you can see my bird next to a dead bone dragon

See, this is what I object to. People stating things as fact that are clearly false, and are shown 1 post beforehand. Look at the image. If you can't be bothered to read the posts don't post yourself. Level 20 Moa Bird.

Moas don't evolve into Striders necessarily, and my Moa does fine damage. My Moa never once said Strider, though my new Strider morphed into a Moa. It did so at level 3, not level 10.

Might I assume that moa birds turn into striders (or striders turn into moa birds) depending on how you use them? Maybe if ou use a lot of pet skills they become moa, and if you don't they become striders?

Also: Epinephrine, seems I can never find you in-game. Maybe the guys on the friends list that are in a USA server don't show up?

LOL!!! Good one...

I play late evenings in EST (GMT-5) timezone. Was on all last night, ran final assault in SF. I also have 2 accounts, so once done that run I popped over to pre-searing on my second account (IGN Ian Nadreel)

Mmmh, if you have some space in your friends list, try to temporarily put my nickname Lunsei Sleidee in. I didn't quite get your time zone but maybe if we're lucky we'll be online at the same time, who knows.