petetion against the nov 10th update - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Marodac Evilbane

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Netherlands

Rite of Passage

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 16:57 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

So then you prefer to have high level monster to scatter from the tanks when an elementist cast off an AoE only to charge towards the casters and murder the whole team?

Fun time that is....

Have you considered using aoe spells to protect your monks?

/unsigned

Aeryn Dimeneira

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

France

Luxan Forces

Mo/

11 Nov 2005 at 16:57 - 42

I totally aggre on the fact, what's the interest of upgrading the mobs AI if you just make them even more stupid than what they were before the update, before with the "stupid" mobs you just had them sitting under AoEs, now you have them running in all the directions and coming back after 2 seconds, then running again and comming, to my eyes it looks more like "bugged mobs" than smarter mobs....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marodac Evilbane

Have you considered using aoe spells to protect your monks?

/unsigned

yeah my monk's gonna carry SoW just to avoid mobs 5 secs and deal no dmg, yepee !!

chosenbygod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

California

[BC]Black Crescent

11 Nov 2005 at 16:59 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeryn Dimeneira

This is not only azbout meteore, I love the idea that mobs just dont sit their asses under meteores, but FACT is the aggro control is dead since as you simply cast for example a Smite hex which has an AoE effect, the mobs will scatter and come back directly on the monk and make him their dinner, which is ruining the tanking system that was existing since the game was created.
of course creating new tactics and all the stuff is fun, but it's just killing oif the spells that have an aoe effect, and it's not only Metore shower and Fire storm since very class has spells with an AoE, for example smiting is just simply dead as the fire elementalists...

Agreed. Most people who are posting probably haven't tried playing the game as it is now. The whole concept of a tank is useless unless you don't use ANY aoe spells which is just painful. PvE has become a lot slower now, instead of being able to take 3-4 groups at a time, now you have to take ONE ENEMY 1 by 1. Im just going to quit PvE and not waste my time on it unless something is done to fix it.

/signed

Rey Lentless

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 17:00 - 44

It's changed, it's not dead. Now the crap ele who spams aoe can harm the team. Aggro control was as easy as a warr running up first, now this isn't the case if you use certain skills.

Great changes, gj ANET.

Maybe I'll see less firestorms in pvp now.

Eder

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 17:01 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeryn Dimeneira

...before with the "stupid" mobs you just had them sitting under AoEs, now you have them running in all the directions and coming back after 2 seconds, then running again and comming, to my eyes it looks more like "bugged mobs" than smarter mobs....

Yes, that's exactly what it looks like - a bug.

Now it's "Check it out, this is a videogame - if I press this key, they all run, then they come back and I do it again! LOLZ! Dumb pplz!" as opposed to "These Tengu are clearly brave creatures, facing certain death to protect their lands!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Maybe I'll see less firestorms in pvp now.

How does a change to the AI affect PvP?

XX Deathwish Warrior XX

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 17:07 - 46

----------> signed
Others should sign toooo!
ty XD

Loch

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 17:12 - 47

I just played through Grenth's Footprint and Sorrow's Furnace as a Fire Elementalist with mostly AoE spells. Firestorm, Meteor (but not shower), Fireball, Incendiary Bonds were all on my skillbar.

Holy crap, PvE is fun again. Considering how I was using a full henchgroup, that's saying a lot.

The whole thing just felt dynamic. Enemies ran to protect themselves. This alone opened up SO many doors to the game. Warriors have a reason to bring Hamstring, rangers have a reason to bring Pin Down, eles have a reason to pack water spells. Oh, and rangers can actually trap without Mantra of Resolve! That's right, trap up the area, then unload Fireball. More than likely, fleeing enemies will cripple themselves trying to escape.

And instead of explaining the last benefit of this, I'll post a quote from the Library of Wisdom on the Importance of Positioning:

Quote:

Now, another little known fact is that when a character is running any hit delivered to them will be a critical hit. When being beaten on by a Warrior or a Ranger often the worst move you can make is to turn and run to get away from them. You're just opening yourself up to a lot of pain.

Adapt. Have fun. Petitioning doesn't prove anything.

/unsigned

entropy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

11 Nov 2005 at 17:22 - 48

PvE has always been easy. The only that makes it harder is aggro control. So what?? I take 20 minutes doing something that takes 10. I mean really I don't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing care if i get critical hits. Adapt umm screw this I will never ever again touch pve if this doesn't get changed. I don't feel like running sprint on my Warrior. If you want PvP styled action do PvP. I prefer PvP and rarely PvE but when I do I am not looking for pvp.

the drizzle

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

E/N

11 Nov 2005 at 17:27 - 49

I think the new update is hilarious. I was using lava font continuously on some minotaurs and they couldnt decide if they wanted to run away or fight me. Eventually they died because they did not attack, just ran around in the lava font.

SA_DEMON

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

South Africa

Royal Knights Of Camelot {HOLY}

11 Nov 2005 at 17:28 - 50

I play a smiting monk and seeing as SoW and Smite Hex is a major part in my build they do more harm than good now in my group. Attacking a group around 70 dmg from smite hex while the warrior takes aggro was great but now this just causes the rest of the team to be taken down.
I dont mind the AI increase but like alot of others said they became a bunch of cowards if a lvl 10 can scare off a lvl17 then there is something wrong.

PS why don't they run away from heal area then.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

11 Nov 2005 at 17:35 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbygod

Agreed. Most people who are posting probably haven't tried playing the game as it is now. The whole concept of a tank is useless unless you don't use ANY aoe spells which is just painful. PvE has become a lot slower now, instead of being able to take 3-4 groups at a time, now you have to take ONE ENEMY 1 by 1. Im just going to quit PvE and not waste my time on it unless something is done to fix it.

/signed

You are right I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but tanks were over- rated some arragant warrior running around with a book or gear thinking they are the leader of the group was ridiculous. That era had to end for the sake of the game. Not to mention the "holy trinity" bias that perpetuated that entire style of play. I say good riddence, I wont miss that at all.

monk muffle

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 17:38 - 52

best thing a-net could ever do it wass getting to easy and now all u fire ele's suck and also no more solo monks cause the aatxes move from zealots and balths aura

entropy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

11 Nov 2005 at 17:40 - 53

Ugh stereotypical bs. Sure there are alot of warriors that are like that but mainly in CA. I find more intelligent people that actually do the missions. Look if you are so against this holy trinity then you need to look at what perpetuated it. In PvP there is no holy trinity. Necro's and mesmers are a part of almost every team. Its because the ai is to stupid to justify a use for those classes. They weren't needed before and they still arent needed now.

Symeon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 17:41 - 54

/unsigned

Stop whining nukers and find a new way to farm

monk muffle

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 17:42 - 55

run now heck with the aoe thing cast smite hex or zealots on u and run ppl am i the only 1 whos thought of this?
also for all u fire ele's id become earth
pbaoe (point blank area of effect)

Alone)

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Campbell, California

Legio Imortalii

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 17:42 - 56

/unsigned.

This should be closed.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=78848

entropy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

11 Nov 2005 at 17:45 - 57

btw I don't nuke I have never ever ever used a fire ele FYI. So before you think its just nukers how bout people like me that don't like it when the ai runs from fricking everything. I've been air, water, and now earth but Seriously Almost all of earth is Aoe just life fire. Earthquake yea but to get even a decent benefit out of it I need to be next to them. I can't be next to them if they are going everywhere randomly.

Memphis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Natis Ignigena

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 17:46 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay0

http://new.petitiononline.com/gw101105/petition.html

i feel this is one of the greatest mistakes anet have ever made
so i want to show them how unhappy we r, please spread this on n get this horrible patch fixed asap

lets see if they really do care about the community

thanks

"To revert from the changes that took place on the 10th Novemeber 2005 for the game Guild Wars - regarding the mobs and henchmen AI
which basically destroyed farming and leaving most characters uselsss"

You're going to seriously need to rethink your wording on that sentence if that's your argument to reinstate the previous mob AI as you're complaining on behalf of the very people that ANet are against.
Although I myself have a farming monk, I enjoy solo play and it's mainly why I play, I wouldn't retaliate from this angle. Farming nerfs will continue, whether this is put back or not. Not to mention saying they've destroyed farming (which they haven't) is just giving them a pat on the back.

What does however concern me, is how the entire mechanics of PvE play have been altered here. Smiting Monks and Fire Elems had a purpose. They were provided with the skills for this purpose, however now that purpose and the whole point of those characters has been taken away.
From when you first start questing you learned the mechanics of aggro management. It's just the way the game worked and how we all learned to play it. Now it's just going to be chaos. It isn't just altered, it's broken. Anyone that defends this with speculation that it'll make players smarter obviously doesn't play the later PvE missions much, with the 90% of PUG parties that can't even follow a target.

I hope (and would like to believe) that this update was a mistake, that ANet own up and reverse it as soon as possible. They can carry on nerfing my Monk's skills all they like after this, but right now half of their game is broken and they need to fix it fast.

That's what you need to petition against.

MultimediaJay

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

No longer on these forums.

Benevolent Order Of Mercenaries

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 17:48 - 59

The next step is plainly obvious. Turn on friendly fire so your Fire Spells can hurt your teammates. >=-)

Seissor

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Squiggilyville. Population: Me.

[oRly] Hello Kitty Death Squad

R/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 17:48 - 60

/signed

A whole lotta builds just got nerfed. The Jedi's are going to feel that one.

zemelett

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

The Dead-Lands

11 Nov 2005 at 18:00 - 61

This update simply makes the monsters act more like real people in pvp, when you go into a pvp and someone casts firestorm or some other AoE skill people just run out of the area, its always seemed dumb to me that the monsters just stood there and took it up the butt. So i have to say that this update is extremely good.

On a side note now i will almost always take an AoE skill for my monk and as soon as monster starts attacking me, i'll just throw down this AoE skill and get them off me....

entropy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

11 Nov 2005 at 18:03 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by zemelett

This update simply makes the monsters act more like real people in pvp, when you go into a pvp and someone casts firestorm or some other AoE skill people just run out of the area, its always seemed dumb to me that the monsters just stood there and took it up the butt. So i have to say that this update is extremely good.

On a side note now i will almost always take an AoE skill for my monk and as soon as monster starts attacking me, i'll just throw down this AoE skill and get them off me....

The monsters don't act like real people. Have you even faced them? Someone has got to get a video so people can see how RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dumb the ai is atm. Balthazars aura makes you invincible to melee based opponents.

Marodac Evilbane

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Netherlands

Rite of Passage

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 18:06 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeryn Dimeneira

yeah my monk's gonna carry SoW just to avoid mobs 5 secs and deal no dmg, yepee !!

This is meant for agroo management in pve teams. Not for solo monks. When you cast firestorm (10secs - not 5) on top of your monks, the mob will back off and refocus on someone else ~ like your tank. Farming may be a bit tougher, but when you put your mind to it, I'm sure you find a way to counter it.
Maybe use your secondary profession for slowing?

Vesital

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada

Servants of Fortuna

11 Nov 2005 at 18:08 - 64

I think the update provides many annoying new features to pve play for those of us who have used and enjoyed specific pve builds for quite a long time. However, how is this update going to affect the in-game economy?

Farming will obviously decrease as many people are just annoyed and not creative enough to design a new farming build. Therefore, supply is going to decrease. Now that less people are going to farm, they are going to try and buy stuff rather than farm it, so demand increases... so, anyone who knows anything about economics knows that decreased supply along with increased demand = bad for the many buyers, good for the fewer sellers. This is also going to suck for new guild wars gamers out there who have never had the opportunity to farm. That's just my rant.

/signed

GWGuru

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 18:10 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufu Vesital

I think the update provides many annoying new features to pve play for those of us who have used and enjoyed specific pve builds for quite a long time. However, how is this update going to affect the in-game economy?

Farming will obviously decrease as many people are just annoyed and not creative enough to design a new farming build. Therefore, supply is going to decrease. Now that less people are going to farm, they are going to try and buy stuff rather than farm it, so demand increases... so, anyone who knows anything about economics knows that decreased supply along with increased demand = bad for the many buyers, good for the fewer sellers. This is also going to suck for new guild wars gamers out there who have never had the opportunity to farm. That's just my rant.

/signed

it won't do anything to the economy....the farmers with brains will come up with a new way/build to farm with. Someone looking for some e-fame will post that build on the internet claiming it's his/hers. The rest of the free world will copy the build and farming will resume. The entire process will take a couple of days max.

onilink

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Consortium of Evil Monkeys

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 18:10 - 66

Anet seems to be obsessed with gradually making useless every single one of the skills that they have created. Before the Nov 10th build, the use of fire and meteor storm was already limited to pve. Now they have become useless in both. Before long, there wont be any skills with individuality left

Memphis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Natis Ignigena

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 18:12 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by zemelett

This update simply makes the monsters act more like real people in pvp, when you go into a pvp and someone casts firestorm or some other AoE skill people just run out of the area, its always seemed dumb to me that the monsters just stood there and took it up the butt.

PvP enemies may well move out of AoE. They also aren't 8 levels higher than you and can pummel you into the floor in 2 hits.

Apples and Oranges. Always has been and always will be.

entropy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

11 Nov 2005 at 18:12 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

it won't do anything to the economy....the farmers with brains will come up with a new way/build to farm with. Someone looking for some e-fame will post that build on the internet claiming it's his/hers. The rest of the free world will copy the build and farming will resume. The entire process will take a couple of days max.

EXACTLY the farmers with brains of which there are few. If they are smart they will keep their mouths shut and make millions. Sry if I just need some decent weapons not even perfect for my warriors or other class and Don't have 50k to spend on it.

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

11 Nov 2005 at 18:12 - 69

Quote:

The exact same thing happens on Roleplay Neverwinter Nights servers.

yah, I used to script for an online persistent roleplaying module. We changed spells so they followed the PHB more appropriately, boy did we get complaints from some players "zomg i want my call lightning to work indoors!".... I bet Anet are feeling like I have in the past

Vesital

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada

Servants of Fortuna

11 Nov 2005 at 18:13 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

it won't do anything to the economy....the farmers with brains will come up with a new way/build to farm with. Someone looking for some e-fame will post that build on the internet claiming it's his/hers. The rest of the free world will copy the build and farming will resume. The entire process will take a couple of days max.

Perhaps you are right. In fact, I hope you are. Let's wait and see

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

11 Nov 2005 at 18:30 - 71

Ladies and germs.

Even if you like the update in principle you have to agree the its currently bugged and not complete, it should be taken away and brought back WHEN ITS FINISHED.

1. Mobs run away form 1 shot AOE spells!!!!!!!!!
2. you mention snares ect, what about the henchies that use AOE, and peoepl that dont have snares.
3. Mobs run back and forth into the AOE like laural and hardy charachters.

points 1-3 im sure youll agree with, i wont go into others i have as you will argue against them.

But the above are BUGS not balances.

coolsti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

11 Nov 2005 at 18:32 - 72

I am in the middle of playing shiverspeak stragglers quest from Yaks with a group of henchies including Orion. I can say that I am all for the patch, but it is clear to me that Anet needs to adjust the AI once again before much time goes by.

What is happening now is that it is very difficult to lure and control the henchies! I lured a few warriors back and away from a mob of enemy, and then start to attack. The two warrior henchmen begin to tank. Then Orion lets firestorm fly, and one of the enemy runs away due to the new changes. But the problem is, my henchy warriors follow him! Into the rest of the mob that I lured the smaller group away from. Even though I was backing up and retreating, my henchy warriors were still chasing after the retreating enemy.

Result: I wasn't about to charge into the entire mob group so my two henchy warriors are now lying in the middle of them dead.

What I need to do: obviously, I can't take Orion with me anymore.

What Anet needs to do: Tweak the AI scripts again. The henchmen must be a bit more responsive to retreating!

Edit: half hour later: Now everyone in the party died. I have played with henchies and only henchies a lot, and all I can say is that Anet did not consider henchy control when doing this patch. It no longer is very easy to control the henchies, at least not when Orion is in the party. Anet, please go back to the scripting room. Please?

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

11 Nov 2005 at 18:44 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Ladies and germs.

Even if you like the update in principle you have to agree the its currently bugged and not complete, it should be taken away and brought back WHEN ITS FINISHED.

1. Mobs run away form 1 shot AOE spells!!!!!!!!!
2. you mention snares ect, what about the henchies that use AOE, and peoepl that dont have snares.
3. Mobs run back and forth into the AOE like laural and hardy charachters.

points 1-3 im sure youll agree with, i wont go into others i have as you will argue against them.

But the above are BUGS not balances.

There, quoted whole post this time

I do agree that while I like the concept of more intelligent enemies it's been executed rather poorly, they are fleeing when they possibly shouldn't and should continue fighting - and a lot of the time look confused. In the grand scheme of things though any decent programmer will be able to tell what they are trying to accomplish here is no trivial task - things such as the enemies current HP, the players current HP, the spell the player is casting, all need to be taken into account and based on such information the enemy has to decide whether he should flee or not, I'm pretty sure there are other factors that could be taken into account too, whether they can easily heal the damage after, what enchantments they have on them, what hexes they may have on them.... lot of work :-\. Arguably they may have been better off saving it for expansion 2.

Hm, I think it's getting a bit clearer as to why Anet said they don't mind farming now.... because they will do lots to prevent it, without going too crazy. Sure smart farmers will work around it, and congratulations to them. I like that guild wars is a game of skill, or is supposed to be.... it didn't really show to well when pretty much anyone could farm.

Eder

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 18:47 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Even if you like the update in principle you have to agree the its currently bugged and not complete, it should be taken away and brought back WHEN ITS FINISHED.

You're absolutely correct. The patch has a good intention (making the mobs smarter, making PvE more challenging and turning it into something that actually requires strategy as opposed to an Echo-Nuker fragfest).

However, making half of the skills useless, no questions asked, does not make the game more challenging or require more thinking or strategy. It just requires a bit of dragging and dropping and then some clicking for good measure, to switch out all your Fire/Smiting skills and replace them with Air/Earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

EXACTLY the farmers with brains of which there are few. If they are smart they will keep their mouths shut and make millions.

Yeah, like they've kept their mouths shut a dozen times before...

You don't have to be the brightest person around to figure out a new way to farm, sooner or later. As long as people are determined to farm, they can find the right build to do it. ANet doesn't seem to understand this... and they're ruining their game for many casual players in an attempt to stop a bunch of farmers (which *they* have already admitted that are a minority).

If they want to nerf farming, they should nerf *farming*. If they want the AI to be smarter, they should make the AI *smarter*. Changing the AI's behavior so that the currently popular farming skills don't work anymore accomplishes neither in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alone)

This should be closed.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=78848

So, this should be closed because there is another thread about it... that has been closed so people would post everything in this thread?

TyLLy_4

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

[Crypt Devils]

Me/E

11 Nov 2005 at 18:50 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay0

http://new.petitiononline.com/gw101105/petition.html

i feel this is one of the greatest mistakes anet have ever made
so i want to show them how unhappy we r, please spread this on n get this horrible patch fixed asap

lets see if they really do care about the community

thanks

/unsigned ... totally agre with arena net ... i also have a FARMING character ... but we deserve it ... all the websites like virgods, or ore4u .... thats just not fair .. any noob can give them 50$ and get best items in the game or a ton of gold .... and .. if im better than them at the game ... y should they win me in PVP ???? its jsut not fair .. with this update theyr jsut puting thigs in hteyr place ... and all of us who farm for our own benefit .. wll its jsut a side efect

Ray

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Denmark

11 Nov 2005 at 19:07 - 76

It doesnt take masterminds to create new builds to survive/kill in the same way,
as we did before the new update.

/not signed

diabis

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:10 - 77

This Update did not stop the farming, the solo build was easy to adjust.
The issue is the fact that all AoE for ALL classes are pretty much useless but for all those skills there is nothing to replace them with. Of course if you want to carry a AoE for protection gotta say all classes now have protection skills. So let us say for those that say they now can not farm the whole run at once and have to now pull it in 3 grps dang that means 14 minutes instead of 5 or 6. As to the petition, well one was strictly put that they thought GW should have given a Replacemnt for the AoE just taken them out of the game.
As to PvP vs PvE etc. Well do them both and adjust my builds to account for what classes we want to take not just we must take, since my guild has all kinds of classes for each player and we love to play all our toons.

id0l

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Texas, ya'll.

A/D

11 Nov 2005 at 19:23 - 78

/signed

Update sucks...

onilink

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Consortium of Evil Monkeys

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:27 - 79

/signed

pve should not be the same as pvp, and even if it should, this update has WAAAY to many bugs for it to be considered adequate.

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

11 Nov 2005 at 19:27 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotcha

since it is a game u should be able to do what u want. All the ppl that think its a good update just dont have monks or eles. No they have f.e a ranger to do trapper groups of 4. Now nerf that too. And btw .. ppl whine in every game .. and this is a forum. Its not only for saying good stuff. So bring ur shit to sum1 who cares.

I have two accounts throughout which I have both a fire nuker and a monk, and a ranger. The new update has done nothing detrimental to those players than can handle a little change. You can still farm. You just have to figure out a new way. My warrior has no problem farming still. My ele has no problem nuking either. Not to mention, the new AI running from AoEs is actually a good thing for elementalists. It will increase the likeliness that people will use eles for something other than fire. Even if you don't want to change from fire, it's still very possible to 'nuke'.

Use other skills, figure out some other way to do the things you've been doing. Start thinking, and quit complaining.

/wholly unsigned.