I'm thinking of trying the following
(1) A good monk that can solo a FA run. (I was able to do this before with my monk, and if we can keep the dps from falling too much I should still be able too.)
(2) A good MM with his typical build
(3) A curse necro with mark of pain, weaken armor, barbs to enhance minion damage. If N/Mes, archaned echo'd spiteful spirit could do some serious damage. Or N/R to add serpents quickness, since all these curses are slow recharge. Will the curse necro add ele-level damage? I seriously doubt it, but it should be pretty good.
(4) Keg tank
(5) An earth ele with glyph'd or echo'd crystal wave, aftershock, o-flame and wards. The damage wont rise to fire ele levels, but it should be good enough, and the wards will help keep the team (and minions) alive.
I'm sure people are going to consider other options in the (3) and (5) holes. Some sort of ranger is an option, adding winnowing to help the minion master.
Personally, I think minion masters will finally be able to get groups as easily as eles. I guess the problem was that there are a lot of bad MM; that problem will probably only get worse. Add the good ones to your friends list -- if you are ever looking for a goon one, my General Boner garners a lot of compliments and gets added to farming lists by folks.
Anyone with experience (lets say you've found at least 10 greens) want to try this build tonight? I can do monk, minion master or curses.
Post Patch Builds
Art
Volarian
Heres my minion master build that would love to go - it includes curses and battery 
**not logged in so I may be off 1 for blood/curse/soul reaping but its close ..trust me
Maxed Death 16 (lvl 18minions)
10 Curses
10 Blood
7-8 SR
Horrors
Minions
Blood of the Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Mark of Pain
Spiteful
Blood Ritual
Life Siphon
Rebirth/Rez
Not only am I able to raise high level minions and lots of them, I'm able to add to the dmg dealing capabilites of our group with MoP + SS. About an hour before patch our 5 man group walked thru GF, then SF like a hot knife thru butter. Granted I haven't been since the update but I did take my Nec build out to help guildies with Def Droks and the AOE dmg from SS + MoP was FABulus!!
ign - Scarys On His Way
**not logged in so I may be off 1 for blood/curse/soul reaping but its close ..trust me
Maxed Death 16 (lvl 18minions)
10 Curses
10 Blood
7-8 SR
Horrors
Minions
Blood of the Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Mark of Pain
Spiteful
Blood Ritual
Life Siphon
Rebirth/Rez
Not only am I able to raise high level minions and lots of them, I'm able to add to the dmg dealing capabilites of our group with MoP + SS. About an hour before patch our 5 man group walked thru GF, then SF like a hot knife thru butter. Granted I haven't been since the update but I did take my Nec build out to help guildies with Def Droks and the AOE dmg from SS + MoP was FABulus!!
ign - Scarys On His Way
BBoy_Manchild
that is similar to my minion master build, but i dont use blood spells
fiends
minions
veratas sacrafice
blood of master
mark of pain
barbs (for bosses)
spiteful
death nova
i replace barbs with dark bond when im not in group that does quests with force focus items (keg/gear/books/blah blah)
fiends
minions
veratas sacrafice
blood of master
mark of pain
barbs (for bosses)
spiteful
death nova
i replace barbs with dark bond when im not in group that does quests with force focus items (keg/gear/books/blah blah)
Art
Tried this build for final assault farming without the earth ele (i.e. with 2 monks instead of one). So the sole damage engine was lvl 18/19 minions and lvl 16 curses (with help from the tank in Grenth only). As one would expect, there was a slightly slow start. After that, we rocked. Bosses melted, and the Furnace Guardians evaporated as though our DPS team was two echo nukers and minions instead of just minions and curses. We did two perfect runs, maybe not 20 minutes but that was more because our tank was a bit raw than because the build is slow.
Its a good build, but you would probably need more DPS for a full clear of sorrows because of the ice golems. Minions get pretty thin in places. But for FA it worked beautifully.
I also think its more dependent on skill. Used to be, you could do ok with raw echo nukers. With a raw MM the build is a non-starter.
Its a good build, but you would probably need more DPS for a full clear of sorrows because of the ice golems. Minions get pretty thin in places. But for FA it worked beautifully.
I also think its more dependent on skill. Used to be, you could do ok with raw echo nukers. With a raw MM the build is a non-starter.
Lorien of Mandos
I basically have the MM build that has posted here - though i fluctuate between spiteful spirit and feast of corruption, depending on mood. Also, I only use fiends so that I can free spots for more curses. Feel free to whisper me in game if you see me on - I love doing quick 5-person fa runs, and usually make sure I have time for 2-3 with a group before I sit down to play.
16 Death, 10 Curses, 10 Soul
1. Faintheartedness - slow down attack rate of enemy = fiends stay alive longer
2. Strip enchantment - i know, blood magic, but it helps when monk bosses use Mark of Prot, and gains me small amt of hp rather than hurting, as rend enchantments would
3. mark of pain - see who minions attack and hit that target with this
4. Shadow of Fear - slow down attack of multiple enemies...
5. Feast of Corruption or Spiteful Spirit (elite)
6. summon fiend
7. blood of master
8. veratas sacrifice
16 Death, 10 Curses, 10 Soul
1. Faintheartedness - slow down attack rate of enemy = fiends stay alive longer
2. Strip enchantment - i know, blood magic, but it helps when monk bosses use Mark of Prot, and gains me small amt of hp rather than hurting, as rend enchantments would
3. mark of pain - see who minions attack and hit that target with this
4. Shadow of Fear - slow down attack of multiple enemies...
5. Feast of Corruption or Spiteful Spirit (elite)
6. summon fiend
7. blood of master
8. veratas sacrifice
MaglorD
Methinks next nerf will be minion mastery. Anet will probably limit the max number of minions at a time.
2_fingers
if they did, they got to rework the alogarithems of the minions. Compare the minions to the diablo 2 Necromancer, these minions arent that great. As it is, they are not easy to manage. I mean, a MM has to have a good warrior and monk to support him, otherwise all the minions would perish easily. The monk has to heal him as a good mm would be sacrificing all the time. The warrior has to aggro the group so the minions dun get targeted. Minions are like paperbags - it so easy to dispose of them. Are they overpowered? Nope, because they come with too many flaws.
1. Constant Health reduction.
2. Laughable armour
3. MM has to sacrifice life in order to keep them alive. Heal area doesnt cut it that well. Sacrifcing leads to its own set of problems.
4. MM are weak before they have corpses or when they lose them.
5. MM if dead cause MASSIVE problems when his minions turn hostile.
If they want to alter the MM, they have to make the indvidual minions stronger OR remove that health reduction. Another solution is to do it the D2 style - no of minions per expertise. So like say @ lvl 16 u can have 10 minions, Powerful, with no health degen.
1. Constant Health reduction.
2. Laughable armour
3. MM has to sacrifice life in order to keep them alive. Heal area doesnt cut it that well. Sacrifcing leads to its own set of problems.
4. MM are weak before they have corpses or when they lose them.
5. MM if dead cause MASSIVE problems when his minions turn hostile.
If they want to alter the MM, they have to make the indvidual minions stronger OR remove that health reduction. Another solution is to do it the D2 style - no of minions per expertise. So like say @ lvl 16 u can have 10 minions, Powerful, with no health degen.
MaglorD
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
if they did, they got to rework the alogarithems of the minions. Compare the minions to the diablo 2 Necromancer, these minions arent that great. As it is, they are not easy to manage. I mean, a MM has to have a good warrior and monk to support him, otherwise all the minions would perish easily. The monk has to heal him as a good mm would be sacrificing all the time. The warrior has to aggro the group so the minions dun get targeted. Minions are like paperbags - it so easy to dispose of them. Are they overpowered? Nope, because they come with too many flaws.
1. Constant Health reduction.
2. Laughable armour
3. MM has to sacrifice life in order to keep them alive. Heal area doesnt cut it that well. Sacrifcing leads to its own set of problems.
4. MM are weak before they have corpses or when they lose them.
5. MM if dead cause MASSIVE problems when his minions turn hostile.
If they want to alter the MM, they have to make the indvidual minions stronger OR remove that health reduction. Another solution is to do it the D2 style - no of minions per expertise. So like say @ lvl 16 u can have 10 minions, Powerful, with no health degen. I believe the minions in GW are similar to the raise dead skill in D2. And while those minions don't lose health, they expire after a while on their own. And those are also limited to a certain number based on skill level.
A good N/Mo can raise a very big army of minions which becomes overpowered imo.
1. Constant Health reduction.
2. Laughable armour
3. MM has to sacrifice life in order to keep them alive. Heal area doesnt cut it that well. Sacrifcing leads to its own set of problems.
4. MM are weak before they have corpses or when they lose them.
5. MM if dead cause MASSIVE problems when his minions turn hostile.
If they want to alter the MM, they have to make the indvidual minions stronger OR remove that health reduction. Another solution is to do it the D2 style - no of minions per expertise. So like say @ lvl 16 u can have 10 minions, Powerful, with no health degen. I believe the minions in GW are similar to the raise dead skill in D2. And while those minions don't lose health, they expire after a while on their own. And those are also limited to a certain number based on skill level.
A good N/Mo can raise a very big army of minions which becomes overpowered imo.
Art
Well, I saw several groups spamming for curse necs (at different times) and they all wanted to try 2 monks, 1 keger, 1 minions, 1 curses. The same build that worked for me.
Having tried the build a few more times, I can now say this isn't a great build with a PUG, and I'll never run it with a PUG again. Its starts SLOW, so if the tank is too dumb to listen and pull the initial group of 4 in Grenth half way up the hill, you'll still be fighting when the rest decide to pile on. And you'll die. Inside Sorrows, its the same story, botched pull on the initial patrol and your history because the damage is slow to start. And if god help ya, you should wipe after that and the MM lose his minions at the wrong point, then GL.
When the build is rocking the DPS is insane, but its just not worth the trouble. A nuker is more predictable damage.
Now if you have a monk who can do the run solo, and take a nuker, keg, and a curse and MM (5 people) then you should rock. One ele should be enough to get the train rolling.
Having tried the build a few more times, I can now say this isn't a great build with a PUG, and I'll never run it with a PUG again. Its starts SLOW, so if the tank is too dumb to listen and pull the initial group of 4 in Grenth half way up the hill, you'll still be fighting when the rest decide to pile on. And you'll die. Inside Sorrows, its the same story, botched pull on the initial patrol and your history because the damage is slow to start. And if god help ya, you should wipe after that and the MM lose his minions at the wrong point, then GL.
When the build is rocking the DPS is insane, but its just not worth the trouble. A nuker is more predictable damage.
Now if you have a monk who can do the run solo, and take a nuker, keg, and a curse and MM (5 people) then you should rock. One ele should be enough to get the train rolling.
Volarian
Agreed with Art - ran the 2 Nec, 2Mo + 1 Kegger build this weekend and it rocked!!
That WAS/IS predicated on a good tanker not over-agroing on the way to SF or once inside SF but also on the expertise of the Curses/Blood Necro. He and I worked off each other quite well, while I was raising minions he would use VS or BoM to help keep them alive along with throwing curses around to mobs. I would BiP him so that he could keep that going and then he'd BR the monks.....it was smoooth I tell ya!!! DPS you say.....OMG was it ever
But it does take players willing to play a role to its fullest extent, an understanding of how the run goes and the expectations of your build......and we all know how hard it is when you KNOW what's coming and the best way to deal with - then explain that to pugs and actually have them (a) do it & (b) get it!!!
That WAS/IS predicated on a good tanker not over-agroing on the way to SF or once inside SF but also on the expertise of the Curses/Blood Necro. He and I worked off each other quite well, while I was raising minions he would use VS or BoM to help keep them alive along with throwing curses around to mobs. I would BiP him so that he could keep that going and then he'd BR the monks.....it was smoooth I tell ya!!! DPS you say.....OMG was it ever
But it does take players willing to play a role to its fullest extent, an understanding of how the run goes and the expectations of your build......and we all know how hard it is when you KNOW what's coming and the best way to deal with - then explain that to pugs and actually have them (a) do it & (b) get it!!!
Nikki Moonlight
...whats a keger...?
Art
In Guildwards holding any non-equipment item (not a weapon or off-hand item) will attract all mobs (monsters) like a magnet. In sorrows furnace, two such items are easily available, the gear used to open gates, and the kegs available to blow doors in the Final Assault quest, which is a popular farming run. A kegger is a tank that holds the keg for the entire Final Assault farming run, thereby attracting a very very high percentage of the monster hexes and attacks. There is no such item in Grenth's Footprint, on the way to Sorrows, so its not illogical to bring some attack skills, but plainly most of the bar and attribute points should be geared to the main task, taking the hits.
In Fissure of Woe there is a book that is a quest item that serves the same purpose, although it is not available as quickly.
As you should be able to imagine, having the monks be able to focus on healing one target allows much smaller groups to tackle the same quests/farming.
In the early days, 8 person groups were dying in the first part of the Orozar quest. Nowadays, with a tank holding the gear, a good 5 or 6 man group should have no problem with the first part of the quest. (Or any of it, with proper execution.)
In Fissure of Woe there is a book that is a quest item that serves the same purpose, although it is not available as quickly.
As you should be able to imagine, having the monks be able to focus on healing one target allows much smaller groups to tackle the same quests/farming.
In the early days, 8 person groups were dying in the first part of the Orozar quest. Nowadays, with a tank holding the gear, a good 5 or 6 man group should have no problem with the first part of the quest. (Or any of it, with proper execution.)
Nikki Moonlight
right, ok didn't know about the kegs, but knew about the gears and the book in FoW...
RoF
I can see a three man farm build here.
- W/Mo Restore Life + All heal spells -> rezzer / tanker (will never run out of energy see below)
- MM -> whatever just stay out of combat
- Sac Necro -> Bip Bip Bip Bip keep Bipping that tanker!
There you have it. A poor man's minion factory for pve. I want to go try it.
- W/Mo Restore Life + All heal spells -> rezzer / tanker (will never run out of energy see below)
- MM -> whatever just stay out of combat
- Sac Necro -> Bip Bip Bip Bip keep Bipping that tanker!
There you have it. A poor man's minion factory for pve. I want to go try it.
Pr1nc355SaRa
aww don't nerf the MM i'm just getting started... **sobs**
BigTru
My Minion Master:
Malign Intervention (Or tainted Flesh)
Death Nova
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Verata's Gaze
Verata's Sacrifice
Animate Bone Horrors (or Bone Minions, which are techinicaly better)
Ressurect
16 Death
13 Soul Reaping
Malign Intervention (Or tainted Flesh)
Death Nova
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Verata's Gaze
Verata's Sacrifice
Animate Bone Horrors (or Bone Minions, which are techinicaly better)
Ressurect
16 Death
13 Soul Reaping
testing_your_armor
this might be in wrong section move it if it is
ok before you all go oh now not another build this ones gets past the aoe patch and kills griffions in 40 secs
it a mo/me just to let you know it was built off the 55 monk
healing 14
protection 11
smitting 15
devine 5
skills are
essance bond ... blessed sig ... watchful spirit ... mending ...healing breeze ..shield of judgement ....protective spirit .....arcane echo ..
well here how it goes you all knwo to do all the enchantments early watchful mending essance
protective spirit when you get ready to get the mob set up following to you got as many as you want cast healing breeze then acrane echo then shield of judgement then you know to just healing breeze and spam spirit justto stay alive and then when sheild of judgement starts blinking hit the echo of it and just keep self alive and enjoy the farming
ok before you all go oh now not another build this ones gets past the aoe patch and kills griffions in 40 secs
it a mo/me just to let you know it was built off the 55 monk
healing 14
protection 11
smitting 15
devine 5
skills are
essance bond ... blessed sig ... watchful spirit ... mending ...healing breeze ..shield of judgement ....protective spirit .....arcane echo ..
well here how it goes you all knwo to do all the enchantments early watchful mending essance
protective spirit when you get ready to get the mob set up following to you got as many as you want cast healing breeze then acrane echo then shield of judgement then you know to just healing breeze and spam spirit justto stay alive and then when sheild of judgement starts blinking hit the echo of it and just keep self alive and enjoy the farming
Maiyn
my necro is a blood/curse, but if they nerfed necros for their minions I would seriously have to question what the developers were thinking before they made this game.
I understand skill balancing.. but it's like .. anytime we get good at anything it has to be nerfed, and I just don't understand that.
Some of it, yup i can definitely understand.. but a lot of the other changes just mystify me.
I understand skill balancing.. but it's like .. anytime we get good at anything it has to be nerfed, and I just don't understand that.
Some of it, yup i can definitely understand.. but a lot of the other changes just mystify me.
Batou of Nine
Grrr. Exploits are found so fast and made public all TOO fast...
Oh well, anyway, the new Nov.10/11 patch has made this exploit ALOT less effective. The Kegger still attracts monster fire, but as SOON as AoE dmg kicks in, some monsters actually start to attack other characters WITHOUT returning focus to the Kegger.
I did a 5 man: kegger, 2 mo, 1ele, 1monk, last night, and it was horrendless harder than i remember. I had to heal multiple people, and Kegger kept having to run around and try to re-aggro monster focus. Still "works" but as i said seems less effective and harder. Im holding my breath till the point that they try and COMPLETELY nerf all forms of farming.
I remember when Gaile gray specifically said that Anet has nothing against farmers, but here we are getting nerf to all hell. Her latest statement was about farmers, was oh so hostile undertoned towards farmers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Oh well, anyway, the new Nov.10/11 patch has made this exploit ALOT less effective. The Kegger still attracts monster fire, but as SOON as AoE dmg kicks in, some monsters actually start to attack other characters WITHOUT returning focus to the Kegger.
I did a 5 man: kegger, 2 mo, 1ele, 1monk, last night, and it was horrendless harder than i remember. I had to heal multiple people, and Kegger kept having to run around and try to re-aggro monster focus. Still "works" but as i said seems less effective and harder. Im holding my breath till the point that they try and COMPLETELY nerf all forms of farming.
I remember when Gaile gray specifically said that Anet has nothing against farmers, but here we are getting nerf to all hell. Her latest statement was about farmers, was oh so hostile undertoned towards farmers...
Quote:
And for those who are concerned (I won't say "whining" but others have ) about farming, why in Dwayna's name do you think you should be able to solo some of the highest level areas to farm? How realistic is that expectation? I mean, if you could in the past -- and if that wasn't intended or balanced -- does that mean it should be left for players to do so indefinitely? No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.
Lol, i sound bitter, and i never farmed SF before last week. haha
FFF_WarRaven
not for nothing, but ummm....THEN WTF DOES ASCENDTION REALLY MEAN?
favor of the gods, the look down on us and blab blabblab....you think if your blessed by the "GODS" you should be able to farm some of the higher areas.....
yet again the "government" of the game, nerfs us when we get good at something or are too outside the limits they wanted to put on us.....they took away a good aspect of the game, sometimes you just don't want to fight with other people, maybe i just want an nice quiet enjoyable experaince, by myself sometimes....
I mean, whats is the big deal, there's plenty of "team" stuff going on in gw, and now they want to make pve=pvp....ummm yeah....now while it's easy for pvp'rs to unlock stuff how about us pve'rs?
They scream "soloing is killing the economy!!!"....yeah really? go look at ebay..that's what is killing the economy.
Half the time there isn't real teamwork anyway....and we are forced to use new builds...ecto is still expensive as hell, and drops are still crap.
Why would i want to goto uw say 10 runs in a row to get not a single ecto or watch a member get 3, 4, or 5 and noone else get any, and the more people you bring the higher the chance of not getting anything good.
To this day there is still a member of our guild that if we take him into the uw not a single other person in the party gets any ecto or even a decent drop.
Maybe if they evened things out, made fissure armor easier to get, or have more ectos and shards drop..shrugs i dunno, i'm sure they would say something about the economy and blabblabblabwhoohwhoohgoregoregore.....
I dunno anymore...this whole thing in the story line about the so called "gods" and such you think that we would be able to solo, the gods have given us favor...we fight an evil twin.....we free ghostly heros...that the gods themselves wouldn't save...and esp. the monks...DIVINE POWER ANYONE???
key word divine...intervention of the gods...
Ascention only insures you get to lvl 20 or close to it, and a way to new areas....yet a run to drok's allowes me to get past the desert, and dragons lair, and into the other high lvl areas...we get no other rewards from ascention...the gods are a joke....do i think i should be able to solo high lvl areas...well if i have the blessing of the gods...you dam sure right i do!
:::End Transmission:::
favor of the gods, the look down on us and blab blabblab....you think if your blessed by the "GODS" you should be able to farm some of the higher areas.....
yet again the "government" of the game, nerfs us when we get good at something or are too outside the limits they wanted to put on us.....they took away a good aspect of the game, sometimes you just don't want to fight with other people, maybe i just want an nice quiet enjoyable experaince, by myself sometimes....
I mean, whats is the big deal, there's plenty of "team" stuff going on in gw, and now they want to make pve=pvp....ummm yeah....now while it's easy for pvp'rs to unlock stuff how about us pve'rs?
They scream "soloing is killing the economy!!!"....yeah really? go look at ebay..that's what is killing the economy.
Half the time there isn't real teamwork anyway....and we are forced to use new builds...ecto is still expensive as hell, and drops are still crap.
Why would i want to goto uw say 10 runs in a row to get not a single ecto or watch a member get 3, 4, or 5 and noone else get any, and the more people you bring the higher the chance of not getting anything good.
To this day there is still a member of our guild that if we take him into the uw not a single other person in the party gets any ecto or even a decent drop.
Maybe if they evened things out, made fissure armor easier to get, or have more ectos and shards drop..shrugs i dunno, i'm sure they would say something about the economy and blabblabblabwhoohwhoohgoregoregore.....
I dunno anymore...this whole thing in the story line about the so called "gods" and such you think that we would be able to solo, the gods have given us favor...we fight an evil twin.....we free ghostly heros...that the gods themselves wouldn't save...and esp. the monks...DIVINE POWER ANYONE???
key word divine...intervention of the gods...
Ascention only insures you get to lvl 20 or close to it, and a way to new areas....yet a run to drok's allowes me to get past the desert, and dragons lair, and into the other high lvl areas...we get no other rewards from ascention...the gods are a joke....do i think i should be able to solo high lvl areas...well if i have the blessing of the gods...you dam sure right i do!
:::End Transmission:::