Many people have said that since AOE is nerf, nukers are useless..
I've tried air spiker n Water deep freeze nuke with essense bond on tank for SF. [E/Mo].
In my opinion, fire nuker is still the better even though it is tougher in Grenth footprint, once kegger grab a keg , things still go fine and fast.
I haven't tried earth yet, any elementalist out there who tried all those builds think likewise?
By the way my new build of ele is as follows E/mo
Fireball/Flare
Incendiary Bonds/Rodgort Invocation (lower recharge and does burns)
Meteor shower
Maelstrom (still useful vs monk boss in SF)
Mark of rodgort
Fire attunement
Essense bond (on kegger for energy)
Glyph of renewal
Using mark of rodgort and spamming fireball/flare does faster dmg with less mana than air spike, since both deal with single creature.
Choice of Ele in SF after patch ?
Frost
Ghastly
As a Stance tank or Monk, my preference will be to go with Eles who don't use AOE spells. The use of AOE doesn't only do less damage as the guys run outside of the effect, it also causes the tank to be hit less, thereby limiting the effectiveness of Essence Bond and other spells, like my personal favorite, Shield of Judgement.
pagansaint
They run from sustained AoE not burst AoE. So Fireball, Phoenix and such work well, and most PBAoE work well.
job4125
I play an earth elementalist to great success. The only problem are Taskmasters who will shatter your enchantments. I am trying to capture Obsidian Flesh to cope with them. I like earth because you can protect yourself and others while still dealing decent damage.
Volarian
Bring 2 Necros - 1 Curses/Blood, the other Minions/Blood:
Curses: Spiteful, Enfeebling Blood + whatever you want, key is that he/she also brings Blood of the Master * Veratas to assist in keeping minions up.
Minions - Veratas, Blood o Master, Lifesiphon, Both high lvl raise spells, Spiteful (att lvl 6), Blood Rit
The Necros keep each others energy up as well as monks, both using Spiteful on diff targets and keeing the minions alive.........easy trip....don't need Ele's (sorry not trying to make ele's less useful in this area....I play one as well)
Curses: Spiteful, Enfeebling Blood + whatever you want, key is that he/she also brings Blood of the Master * Veratas to assist in keeping minions up.
Minions - Veratas, Blood o Master, Lifesiphon, Both high lvl raise spells, Spiteful (att lvl 6), Blood Rit
The Necros keep each others energy up as well as monks, both using Spiteful on diff targets and keeing the minions alive.........easy trip....don't need Ele's (sorry not trying to make ele's less useful in this area....I play one as well)
Cam_Payton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volarian
Bring 2 Necros - 1 Curses/Blood, the other Minions/Blood:
Curses: Spiteful, Enfeebling Blood + whatever you want, key is that he/she also brings Blood of the Master * Veratas to assist in keeping minions up.
Minions - Veratas, Blood o Master, Lifesiphon, Both high lvl raise spells, Spiteful (att lvl 6), Blood Rit
The Necros keep each others energy up as well as monks, both using Spiteful on diff targets and keeing the minions alive.........easy trip....don't need Ele's (sorry not trying to make ele's less useful in this area....I play one as well) I've monked for both the standard team and the 2 necro build last night, and found both just as effective. Ele's just need to leave firestorm at home, everything else works fine. I dunno if I'd be up to monk for minion masters much, the groups I was in expected me to heal the minions frequently, so annoying.
Curses: Spiteful, Enfeebling Blood + whatever you want, key is that he/she also brings Blood of the Master * Veratas to assist in keeping minions up.
Minions - Veratas, Blood o Master, Lifesiphon, Both high lvl raise spells, Spiteful (att lvl 6), Blood Rit
The Necros keep each others energy up as well as monks, both using Spiteful on diff targets and keeing the minions alive.........easy trip....don't need Ele's (sorry not trying to make ele's less useful in this area....I play one as well) I've monked for both the standard team and the 2 necro build last night, and found both just as effective. Ele's just need to leave firestorm at home, everything else works fine. I dunno if I'd be up to monk for minion masters much, the groups I was in expected me to heal the minions frequently, so annoying.
Enix
Playing with my minion master, it is nice when monks heal the little critters, but i dont expect it. I think it depends on who you play with, not what their char happens to be. :P
2_fingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam_Payton
I've monked for both the standard team and the 2 necro build last night, and found both just as effective. Ele's just need to leave firestorm at home, everything else works fine. I dunno if I'd be up to monk for minion masters much, the groups I was in expected me to heal the minions frequently, so annoying.
Well look at it this way, either u heal the minions, and we have a much faster run, or u dun heal and we take around 15 min longer.
Cam_Payton
or I could just find an ele group, and gg.
XvArchonvX
Fire nukers still work fine, especially in conjunction with a good minion master. Being able to chain together 4 meteor storms has become a good skill set to bring as you can keep knocking down foes before they can run away. I have found that minion masters with bone fiends can dish out a good majority of dmg to groups well, but ele are still very necessary when it comes to bosses. If the MM is low on or has no corpses, then the ele is your only chance at killing a boss faster than he can heal.
Speaking of bosses, when there is just a boss left and all the surrounding enemies are dead, a good tactic for a nuker is to get the group to get close to the boss and box him in. This allows the nuker to nuke away without fear of the boss fleeing (also works well for getting the double dmg with phoenix when you are standing close if you use that skill.)
Admittedly, I have never farmed with an ele in SF, and have only farmed there with my necro since the update, but I have done so succesfully with a fire ele on many occaision and know that fire is still a viable option for SF farming.
Speaking of bosses, when there is just a boss left and all the surrounding enemies are dead, a good tactic for a nuker is to get the group to get close to the boss and box him in. This allows the nuker to nuke away without fear of the boss fleeing (also works well for getting the double dmg with phoenix when you are standing close if you use that skill.)
Admittedly, I have never farmed with an ele in SF, and have only farmed there with my necro since the update, but I have done so succesfully with a fire ele on many occaision and know that fire is still a viable option for SF farming.
Makkert
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
Well look at it this way, either u heal the minions, and we have a much faster run, or u dun heal and we take around 15 min longer.
well look at it this way: a good master takes care of its minions, eh?
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
Well look at it this way, either u heal the minions, and we have a much faster run, or u dun heal and we take around 15 min longer.
As a MM myself, I don't find that healing minions slows down the group much if at all. Usually it is I waiting on the monks or ele to regen energy. However I also find it really unnecessary for monks to help heal my minions. With death magic at 16 and the use of Verata's Sacrifice and Blood of the Master, my minions will stand strong as long as the monk can heal me after I sacrifice health. Also the 2 man MM team is a a big waste, unless you just want to have two MM with you. A MM and a battery would be a much more efficient use of the extra necro, but even then is still unecesary if you have a good nuker and tank to get the corpses rolling.
Elsydian
Not too sure about burst AoE being safe, I've had enemies run from me after an inferno, before I can follow up with flame burst.
Shaun
Like the earth eles or air spikers myself. Earth can keep up wards and use stuff such as crystal wave,eruption,aftershock. And with air they can do lots of quick spike dmg killing them off quickly.
2_fingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makkert
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Elsydian
Not too sure about burst AoE being safe, I've had enemies run from me after an inferno, before I can follow up with flame burst.
If u use 2 rapid burst in close succession, they disperse. If u wait say 1sec or 2 before releasing the second one, they do not disperse.
saphir
i have no problem keeping my minions up w/ lvl 16-17 sacrifices:
blood of master (120-122) + verata's sacrifice (regen) + 120hp heal area i think it's ridiculous to expect a monk to heal one's minions. it's nice, but it shouldn't be expected. monks can't fight the degen in the end anyway, the only skill that would be effective for a monk to bring would be heal area for the minions. the only issue i've found that makes it tougher to heal the minions is when i have 16+ undead, as then my heal skills can't reach the ones in the tail end. then what i do is, move, they all group in behind me, i hit "x" to spin around so they try to cross paths thru me to get to where they are "supposed" to be behind me again, then use heal area or blood when they're all tightly packed around you trying to rearrange themselves. do that once or twice and your entire army will be good to go. when you have about 20 minions it doesn't really matter if 1 or 2 die, i use the +10 energy per off of death to cast heals for he rest my army. a noble sacrifice from my pet indeed. also heal area heals keeps me up after i sacrifice health. i also pack taste of death for when i'm being spiked in battle or if things go bad.
chippxero
SF requires
1 warrior (Takes the beats and does some damage) 2 monks (Healing and protection) 1 fire nuker. (Does huge damage) We only take eles that are fire, the AoE change didn' really effect it to much as the warrior has them agrro'd and AoE's are really just used on bosses, with all 4 players holding him in place for max effect.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
yes, but there's a limit to how much u can keep alive. Verretta sac, and Blood of the master only go so much. A necro with heal area works too but at times we cannot sustain the energy requirements for all 4 spelss to go constantly - i.e. multiple corpses. If a monk helps out while there is no battle going on - that is there's no one to heal, a short burst of 10 energy isnt exactly so difficult considering that you most likely bonded the warrior and have energy when it matters.
With a good MM that has 16 att in death, sustaining minions is no problem. Yes some will die, but as long as you maintain a healthy sized group, this is of no convern. Of course if the MM is using animate bone minions, then you have something to worry about. Since they are lower lvls they die faster, and since they are melee based, it takes them longer to attack and if you have too many of em, some will just end up standing around when they can't fit in close enough to attack their enemy. Fiends are the obvious choice for any decent MM worth their mettle, heh
Sereng Amaranth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsydian
Not too sure about burst AoE being safe, I've had enemies run from me after an inferno, before I can follow up with flame burst.
I've found that doing it in reverse order works better. Burst then Inferno. They still move away, but only after the ~200 dmg each.
And yes, once everyone in my team sees the AoE going off, we instinctively bum rush him to block exit.  Crispy boss.
Nessaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
With a good MM that has 16 att in death, sustaining minions is no problem. Yes some will die, but as long as you maintain a healthy sized group, this is of no convern.
you can not keep up more then 30 minions without help from outside, I doubt the others are talking about low numbers here. instead about groups of minions that rip through any group of enemies in less then 10 seconds.
It's not a huge issue that you have 20 minions instead of 30, but it's not a huge issue that you deal 110 damage instead of 100 damage (with meteor shower, for instance) either. We're looking at maximum effectiveness here. When you are doing your job as a MM no-one other then your minions are being damaged so your monk doesnt have anything to do to start with.
Maxiemonster
AoE is nerfed, that's a fact. Try body blocking the people you're AoE'ing, that'll help alot.
2_fingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
With a good MM that has 16 att in death, sustaining minions is no problem. Yes some will die, but as long as you maintain a healthy sized group, this is of no convern.
I do not expect monks to heal my minions, but if they are free, that is, if they have enough energy then a heal or two really lengtens the minons lifespan. Secondly, any decent monk who essence bonded the tank has tons of energy available. Though this takes alot of ifs into consideration. One of it is that everyone knows what they are supposed to do, the tank is using 0 attributes in weapons and is going pure stances and there is barrier/bond.
Expecting this out of say a random pug is almost impossible. MY guildies help to heal my minons out - simlpy because by healing them we kill faster and the run goes faster. They do not need to deal with the constant degeneration in the minons' lives, thats not neccessary. What they can do is simply pop a heal area from time to time when i'm busy doing other stuff like raising, waiting for veretta to cd etc.
The Acolyte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
AoE is nerfed, that's a fact. Try body blocking the people you're AoE'ing, that'll help alot.
Yup...boxing in the monk bosses make it VERY easy for me to kill with my ele. Here's the E/Me build I use for FA runs (balances ability for continous casting, max damage, multiple-mob damage, and saving casters from stray midgit tanks...)
Maelstorm Air Attunement Archane Echo Glyph of lesser energy Lightening Surge Lightning Orb Glittering Mark Chain Lightning Weapons: The brimstone wand and the collectors air artifact from droks (recharge and casting speed @ 20% each) I use two sup runes, air and energy storage, with a major vigor to offset some of the hp penalty. Also, I put 20 points into air and 20 into storage, rest in water. I use the air headpiece for the air bonus as well. If I have a Necro in the group with BiP, I just echo lightning orb and spam between surge and wand (or chain if the mobs are grouped). Mael is only used on monk bosses. To bring them down quick, just have full energy, echo two maelstorms, and hit them with orb and surge (don't waste energy with chain lightning). If the group has the monk boxed in and I have full energy, I can take down a monk boss solo in less than 10-15 seconds. If the Necro doesn't like to use BiP, then I just manage energy carefully. Echo orb and use it to bring down a pesky ranger quick, or for kill shots where/when necessary. Glittering mark might seem like a gay skill to some, but I find it very effective...especially traveling from warcamp to SF (when tank isn't carrying gear/keg/book/rod/etc/etc) When one of those midgit tanks get through, cast glittering mark on them and either hit em with orb or surge or wand to keep em blind/kill. They'll be blind for all but two seconds of the spell length (only enough time for two hits if they are still alive before mark recast). More than anything, it'll give the monks time to get away if need be, or cast prot spirit and tank it out. Look me up ingame and I'd love to group with you to put it to use. The great thing about this setup is that the air setup causes little to no exhaustion (manage chain effectively plz...), you can cast often with the surge in there, and with BiP you can do a LOT of damage quickly. Also, aggro is easily controlled, as the only mobs that will be really irritated with you are the ones you're hitting directly. Acolyte Devathi (E20) Lord Umvell (W20) Saint Vyway (Mo20)
The Acolyte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
AoE is nerfed, that's a fact. Try body blocking the people you're AoE'ing, that'll help alot.
Yup...boxing in the monk bosses make it VERY easy for me to kill with my ele. Here's the E/Me build I use for FA runs (balances ability for continous casting, max damage, multiple-mob damage, and saving casters from stray midgit tanks...)
Maelstorm Air Attunement Archane Echo Glyph of lesser energy Lightening Surge Lightning Orb Glittering Mark Chain Lightning Weapons: The brimstone wand and the collectors air artifact from droks (recharge and casting speed @ 20% each) I use two sup runes, air and energy storage, with a major vigor to offset some of the hp penalty. Also, I put 20 points into air and 20 into storage, rest in water. I use the air headpiece for the air bonus as well. If I have a Necro in the group with BiP, I just echo lightning orb and spam between surge and wand (or chain if the mobs are grouped). Mael is only used on monk bosses. To bring them down quick, just have full energy, echo two maelstorms, and hit them with orb and surge (don't waste energy with chain lightning). If the group has the monk boxed in and I have full energy, I can take down a monk boss solo in less than 10-15 seconds. If the Necro doesn't like to use BiP, then I just manage energy carefully. Echo orb and use it to bring down a pesky ranger quick, or for kill shots where/when necessary. Glittering mark might seem like a gay skill to some, but I find it very effective...especially traveling from warcamp to SF (when tank isn't carrying gear/keg/book/rod/etc/etc) When one of those midgit tanks get through, cast glittering mark on them and either hit em with orb or surge or wand to keep em blind/kill. They'll be blind for all but two seconds of the spell length (only enough time for two hits if they are still alive before mark recast). More than anything, it'll give the monks time to get away if need be, or cast prot spirit and tank it out. Look me up ingame and I'd love to group with you to put it to use. The great thing about this setup is that the air setup causes little to no exhaustion (manage chain effectively plz...), you can cast often with the surge in there, and with BiP you can do a LOT of damage quickly. Also, aggro is easily controlled, as the only mobs that will be really irritated with you are the ones you're hitting directly. Acolyte Devathi (E20) Lord Umvell (W20) Saint Vyway (Mo20)
chippxero
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_fingers
Well look at it this way, either u heal the minions, and we have a much faster run, or u dun heal and we take around 15 min longer.
Most monks i know including myself don't take heal area as it's usefulness is limited it's not often i am next to my pary members without enemies meaning i would heal them too, and i don't think heals that heal all the party include minions so monks would have to heal one by one which is a bit of an endless task.
i'd take heal area if i had another skill slot but unfortunatly they are all taken up with skills. anyway eles need metorstorm IMO for SF as monk boss's are a pain in the ass without the interupts.
Hailfall
Also, if you continuely heal your minions then they degen faster resulting them to die way faster..
I can walk around with around 20+ minions but I can't keep them alive for that long (roughly one battle and then I'll just reap the next set of bodies for new minions..)
unienaule
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailfall
Also, if you continuely heal your minions then they degen faster resulting them to die way faster..
To clarify, the healing does not cause them to degen faster, the fact that you have to spend time stopping and casting is what makes their degen get worse.
schutz
You dont even need ele's anymore and after i accidentally deleted mine last week its no huge loss cos ele's have gone down hill
neoteo
my main char is a fire ele , i can set him for any other air earth or water , have the greens and runes on eyes and all .. but still fire is what i like to use to farm sorrow ... if your party mates can type and read the chat text , block the boss , 4 people is good for that , 5 even better ... the box tecnique works , and gives hell of good screen shots , see the link
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=81403
Makkert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailfall
Also, if you continuely heal your minions then they degen faster resulting them to die way faster..
I can walk around with around 20+ minions but I can't keep them alive for that long (roughly one battle and then I'll just reap the next set of bodies for new minions..) This is a myth. Its not true. They degen at a cummalitive rate of -1degen /20 seconds. So the longer your minion is alive, the more it will degen, to the point it will totally neglect the necro skill that gives it 10 regen. ~ Makkert
Aurorae
The whole "fire nukers are now completely useless" statement really bugs me. Yes, enemies run from AoE spells, but I know how to use my spells to do the most damage possible - without exhausting myself or losing too much energy.
97% of the time, enemies don't have the chance to run from my attacks. As a minion mistress (N/Mo), I manage Blood of the Master (122hp), Heal Area (130hp) and Verata's sacrifice. Bosses and the like stand no chance against 20+ fiends and horrors. And if you feel like, keep an Essence Bond on the warrior during battle and you'll be able to raise minions before the gnashers and binders are even aware of what's going on.
The Acolyte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurorae
You can really tell who the kiddies are here. Fire nukers still have a ton of uses. I made this statement in another thread about rangers, so sorry if you've read this already: IT IS NOT THE CLASS OR CHARACTER, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PLAYING!! I've met some people who play some exotic builds, builds I wouldn't dream of using personally, and they did a fantastic job. Get over your ego folks, there is no one best build in the game! And if there IS an uber build, don't worry...Anet will balance it eventually (watch out necros...you're next....) Acolyte Devathi
judge1121
well i always take a nuker it always helps doing knockdown mostly cause some bosses dont move or i just body block them or cripple them.
and no rangers gonna get it again we always do. |
