Poll on the 10/10 and 10/11 Update

C'mon Savio, can't we see just a little moderator magic? Please? I enjoy seeing you work!

So that this isn't considered spam, my feelings on the new patches?

I think they had good intentions, and the idea driving the update was a good one. They definately screwed up in their implementation though, as is evident by the sheer number of people complaining on a 30 second basis. (Literally, some of them are getting the "Only allowed to post once every 30 seconds" error, I'll bet.)

That I can agree with. The whole implementation deal. Of course thats always the trick with patches. Getting it right the first time so that no one has a reason to make a petition. However after Working with a Linux project I find it dosn't happen very often. People always get their feathers ruffled.

Darn 3rd edit I can't seem to spell worth a crap.

I must say, even after the fix just a bit ago, its still horrible. My first character, favorite character, my main character is an elementalist/mesmer and it has become worthless in fire magic... the MAGIC I LOVE TO PLAY WITH...

And I have to share it here or else it will bug me all night: I have been yelling horse-shyt, bullshyt, and omfg in my guild chat for the past 2 hours.

I kinda find humor in seeing 216 hours out of my 791 total hours played go to waste on my ele, but then again, I don't.
Worst update I have ever seen, and I have been cheering ArenaNET for everything prior to this.

Edit: The Dark Bond fix was way over due btw.

Or people can realize what that weapon crafter in Droknars does. Ya know, the one that can forge you a 15^50 sword, req 9, completely clean to boot. The only reason you NEED gold is to not feel cheap, and in all reality that is pretty sad. There are also collectors who can give you items that are just as good as those perfect items that cost you hundreds of thousands of gold.

Obviously being good at the game isn't enough for people, they need to feel pretty and unique with their one of a kind weapon that everyone has. There are max weapons with excellent inherent mods which you will rarely find that you can simply craft and yet constantly people complain that they can't afford anything good.

I stopped needing gold two months after the got the game, tops. That was when I started farming. The only reason I needed it was so I could look cool in my eyes. I didn't need to get a superior absorption or vigor since I am mainly a PvE player and really having the best of everything is only really needed in the top tiers of PvP competition. I'm a completionist (sp?); got every skill on my warrior, and am in the midst of completely the rest of the bonuses that I missed out on. I don't need to because all I get is EXP, and I naturally don't need anymore skill points. Yet I still do it, like those who need gold even though they really don't. Open your eyes people, maybe if you didn't get a run to every place (how ironic that they've made it so easy to do now...) you would've fun some decent stuff along the way to sell.

Question to all, do your guilds not help you out in the least? I would think any decent leader would provide his/her members the funds to sustain themselves. And really, if your guild isn't helping you play to the best of your ability (and apparently everyone needs gold to achieve this) then why are you in that guild? To have fun? Well, you're hardly having fun if you're poor all the time and all you can do is gripe about how little you have instead of trying to reverse the situation.

Sat here before and ranted. Decided I've already said my peace. Replaced with a plea after noticing the perfect explanation by internetguy.

GW, please reset AI.
I'll explain quoting someone elses post because I just cannot word it any better.

"Originally Posted by internetguy
There is a major difference between PVP and PVE, in PVP: two high intelligent groups against each other with the same amount of members, in PVE, one high intelligent group (Human players) against low intelligent (AI) computer controlled, but in high quantity monsters. All of these kind of combinations create something call balance or fairness. The newest patch totally destroyed this concept."

If it really is a temp fix for people farming to sell for physical cash, please hurry.
If it's not, and you don't end up putting things back, you've lost a customer, who absolutely loved the game before.

To the Devs...

I voted for complete reversal...not that I expect it. Anet is much like the government in the respect that they will never, ever admit that they made a huge mistake.

If the intention was to improve the game, then IMPROVE it. ADD new content, skills, something. Don't just nerf a whole class and line of kills and call it good. Removing - or rendering obsolite - already existing content is NOT an improvement.

Here's a thought...try implementing some of the actual improvements that have been hinted at for months but never came to pass. Things like guild storage, auction house, and such come to mind...not to mention finally completeing the 15K armor line.

Above all...just once, please stop and THINK about what your doing. Actually forming some sort of long term plan might be a much better idea than the random, senseless updates and knee-jerk reactions to percieved problems.

Just once, please try to do something right. Almost had something good going with the Halloween goodies, but then you turn around and release this ill-planned, misbegotten excuse for a patch and *poof*...the game goes to hell for a huge segment of players.

But then, you've already gotten our money...must not have been to serious about trying to build a huge player base to buy those expansions, eh? Just take the money, screw the game and run.

I just tested EoE and a few fire spells against some charr and aviraca.
Its really calmed down. EoE doesnt trigger a outbrake anymore.
There seems to be a delay in thier reaction time for moving out of AoEs.
And they dont seem to move out of AoEs that are one hit (probably do to the reduced reaction timing)

Control henchmen is still sort of hard. Because they will run after mobs overextending themselves. The monk henches (which get targeted pretty quick) seem to run back alot when attacked. More so if I try to stay with them. Maybe they did this before, but Im just noticing it.

So...I think its time bust out the snares in PvE. Keep the monks safe (seeings how mobs like to run now towards them more and hench monks like to run away too) and keep the baddies in AoEs if you plan on using them.

Snares is one way. But the little testing I did I think I learned how to treat the new AI. Its not so bad. In the end, it doesnt make anything harder except builds that relay on heavy and consistant AoE damage. And it only makes that option harder not impossable.

I think it was a good update but poorly implemented. But its getting better. And I like it. Just, keep working at it until its perfecto. Well love you for it.

You assume way too much. You think that game development is really that quick? That making an update only takes fifteen minutes? That the planning stages don't exist?

And if ArenaNet all of a sudden revoked the update, THAT would be a prime example of a knee-jerk reaction. Especially considering that forums are always much more full of negative reactions than positive.

Fix the henchmen and enemy A.I., and watch hilarity ensue. Priceless.

i voted for its poor implemention..but now its fixed lol

lol yah, like someone said on (the page this will be on) henchies run around like freaking chickens when they are attacked now, and my god they all get fking recked so hard, then I die, then guess what we all die. Res, go back,
get raped again, obtain 60% penalty and give up. Too much frustration, too much bullshit.
Revert AI back. This was a failure update. (aside from the dark bond which took how many months exactly to be fixed? someone care to answer?)

I have never said that game development is quick. As for making updates..no, I don't think it only takes 15 minutes. I do, however, know that it's much easier to make a poorly planned, poorly executed, and just plan BAD patch than it is to make a well thought out, properly implemented one.

Gaile stated in the other thread that this patch was well tested. By who, lab monkeys? Who could possibly believe that this drastic reversal in extremes of NPC stupidity constituted an actual improvement in the gameplay experience?

As for knee-jerk reactions, implementing the patch in question was obviously a knee-jerk reaction to some percieved problem. I have yet to see any clarification as to precisely what it was they were trying to acomplish here. If a knee-jerk reaction created such problems for so many ppl., then yes, a similar knee-jerk reaction may be the only way to fix it.

Uh, Trinity, did you even PLAY the new patch? It's freakin awesome. Go play it for a few hours, then come back.

well unfortunately last update (nov 11) left HUGE amoung of bugs from nov 10th update unfixed. such as:

1. buggy skills - f/ex my fire att and earth att work about 3 out of 4 castt now - smtimes i'm getting my engry back smtimes - no. and if i'll waste my elite skill choice on elem att - is it going to be the same? have to test it tho but prolly now whole ele's energy management was nerfed...
(i'm playing monk, ele, necro and mesmer, so enrgy management is REALLY important to me)

2. aggro area - smtimes mobs can see and attack players staying really FAR from them - f/ex farmed with prot.ele, i wasnt able to see her on my radar (lost enchants soon after that) but mobs ignored me and runned to her...

3. not getting experience bug. unfortunately now non-smiting monks are getting no exp if they're staying way back behind party, just holding enchants and running in to heal from time to time. also i've noticed that now monks are getting 1/3 of usual amount of drops. havent tested it in FOW with my monk yet, but its true for desert and mountains (warcamp area, not N shiverpeaks, dont play there anymore). also i wasnt getting any exp with my ele if i stayed back after dropping all AOE spells - it'll be hard to get rid of DP now, and i think its completely unfair.

4. glitches in mobs att points - smtimes lvl 20 hydra does usual damage but smtimes it does 3-4 times bigger damage out of sudden. same with wardens in SF. i think elem skills were nerfed during update and now received/inflicted elem damage is way to unpredictable. if gw is skill-oriented game why nerf skills so i cant plan my builds and my tactics? it just makes no sence at all.

5. i'm not sure why but faster skill recharge bonuses werent working today (used earth green rod and offhand and collector's fire weapon and offhand). not sure about monk tho - she got rod with +8% chances to faster recharge, not 20% so i mb i missed it... but i think monk's bonus wasnt working too.

I also believe that the idea of the update is great, make the ai act more like human characters, but i do believe it was poorly implemented. i mean come on, now we don't even have to worry about stupid players agroing, but now the ai agros, worse then any human ever could. It kind of like ANet just made the code and through it in the game. If they could make the ai run from aoe, but not run like headless chickens, that would be cool.
thnx for the poll ind!!!

Yes, I've played it with todays patch, and yes, it is marginally better than it was yesterday, but I would still have preferred that none of this mess had ever happened. I was happy with the gameplay the way it was and personally saw no need to mess with it, at least until the expansion...that would have been a much better time and circumstance to implement any major changes. I would much have preffered that they finally implement some of the improvements they have been hinting at for sooo long. Just my opinon, but I paid my money and am intitled to it, just as everyone else.

Regardless of the final outcome of all this, I don't think theres much doubt that the whole situation could have been handled much better.

I'm not the hothead type and I don't generally post my views on such things as this - my first post in this topic was my first post ever on these boards - but this whole experience has really ruined my faith in this game and its development.

Regardless of what class you play, you have to admit that it would truely suck to log on one day and find that the toon you had been playing for 6 months, earned huge XP on and spent major plat on, had been nerfed to the point of near uselessness without explantation or justification.

Anyway, I'm done with this. Didn't intend to ruffle any feathers. Just posting my opinion on the matter..same as everyone else.

Well the sad part is that I must rag about the runners, and as I posted in the other thread about the update they're ruining my gameplay experience. Being forced to team up in areas with players who don't give a damn about the fight and stop to pick up everything that drops for them out of greed. Everyone seems to have the mentality that they can throw some gold at whatever obstacle they have to overcome and get away with it. Yes, and it's good and fun for them, and but it's that exact egotism that is generating a lot of bad players. They can't do anything for themselves, nor can they compete on the same levels as everyone else and all they want to do is whine and complain. So then I, and many others, have to play with these people that can't understand the basic fundamentals of combat. Overall, someone who is trying to play the game in his view as being the correct method, is being hampered by someone who doesn't give a damn about anyone else as long as they achieve the desired result as quickly as possible.

As you said, the little man can't figure out how to farm. You also said that any respectable guild won't help members who are merely a leech unto the guild. Farming isn't for everybody, and the general consensus is that you have to be a warrior, ele, or monk to do so. Anything else would be too complex for these people to figure out would it not? So basically if they didn't create one of these three classes they are to be tossed aside and disregarded? How... almost coincidental that those three classes, the three that can farm with such ease, are the only ones finding their way into groups.

Prehaps is was rude of me to embark on your playing style, but farming was the way I liked to play. Now, the players who have hampered my style of play were not affected, but my way of life has been? Where is the reasoning? Apparently, farming is not the way this game was meant to be played, but running is perfectly fine? Then why all the content Anet, for what reason if not merely a detour that a couple of bucks on Ebay will bypass?

Since players can no longer farm as efficiently, they will resort Ebay for their gold. Gold which is now far easier to achieve through a running business, which is then put back on Ebay. It's a vicious cycle that I hope Anet realizes they are promoting by disallowing farming to some extent.

I agree to what Darkest Dawn says...add a delay or some sort of compensation...at least so that nukers can still go about their business or return it to the original...whats the point of nuking and high damage if you cant use it?

what priest said

How you be so arrogant as to make a statement like that? GW is about PvP AND PvE. If I want to continue PvE and never play PvP that is my business and it is why I bought the game!

That's the thing though.

This is a general statement, not just to you Trinity.


Before yesterday I heard almost everywhere that PvE is boring, easy, and stale. All the game is about is PvP. Blah blah blah. People are quitting the game. Some say because there's no content, some say because they're bored.

So ANet tried to make PvE more challenging and exciting. IGNORE THE FIRE MAGIC RESULT, I'LL GET TO IT IN A SECOND.

Their intent may have been to stop solo-farming. But let's be realistic, unless they put up a flag on town portals that says "Sorry, but your party has too few numbers. Please invite more people to exit this outpost." or "Are you sure you want to leave the party? Doing so will teleport the group to the last outpost visited." -- solo-farming isn't going to disappear. As developers, despite the emotion and disappointment some of us feel in this patch, ArenaNet have shown an incredible amount of awareness and concern in their product, so I fully believe they are fully aware they cannot stamp out solo-farming entirely and really had the best interests of PvE in mind when they decided to alter the AI to include the AoE-avoid tactic.

So they did it. They implemented it, and on paper it was great. Finally, AI that challenges us with forcing us to use tactics on the fly, rather than just stand there dumbly and outnumber us hoping we'll all die before they do! But... there were side affects. There are always side affects. Because enemies scatter on AoE, and because Fire Magic contains quite a few AoE spells, suddenly they're not compatible. Of course, 5 minutes after this is realized, the proverbial shit hit the fan and everybody threw a temper tantrum and demanded in outrage that ArenaNet give the players back 'their game' (their = the players'). Not the best way to go about things, but typically on forums, the immediate way things are handled. Change, awareness, riot.

I have complete confidence that ArenaNet did not gather and say:

"You know, my house caught on fire last week. I wish people didn't think it was so cool."

"Hey, I know, let's make Fire useless in our game so people won't like it anymore!"

"Brilliant!"

If anybody here believes ArenaNet sabotaged that skill line intentionally and they do not care how it affects you, I suggest growing up and getting away from the computer for a few days. The world does not revolve around you. (Those lines only apply to those who believe ANet sabotaged the game to intentionally hurt them.)

Look, you have to face it:

People were bored. They wanted something done.

ANet did something. People want it undone.

ArenaNet is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I, for one, don't believe they deserve half the garbage directed at them in this thread and ones similar to this. It is a game, a game we all love(d). But when you look at it realistically: when you start to depend on a video game as your only escape from real life, there are issues, and I don't mean of the netcode variety.

Look, I love this game, and I love ArenaNet for it. I don't want them dissuaded because a few people's reactions to an update were negative. There is no need to flame each other, we're all fans, and all affected.

In short, we all, those against and those for this update, need to get over it, get over ourselves, and grow up. We're nothing more than bickering children because mommy and daddy changed the parental controls on our cable box. Breathe, relax, and get some perspective.

Please?

I know. It's kind of like Anet's version of joining a random tombs pug and putting down maxed EoE at every map.

Random chain of thought regarding the Farming issue....

*Anet = Corporation = in business to make money...all other considerations irrelevant

*Anet discourages players from farming

*EULA prohibits players from selling gold, items, and such on Ebay/Etc.

*Anet takes no noticable actions against those blatantly selling gold or
advertising the sale of gold in game, though such actions are legally and technically available to them.

*Anet issues update that some contend severly restricts their ability to farm and encourages the purchase of gold on Ebay/Etc.

*Anet, unrestricted by their own EULA - or any other law that I know of - sells gold on Ebay, etc. No overhead as they don't even have to farm..just create it out of thin air.

*Anet profit margin increases = investors happy

*gamers none the wiser...

Conclusion-

*Anet = Virgoods, Ebay sellers, Etc. ?!?!?

---------

In light of their constant attempts to nerf player ability to farm while doing little or nothing about the Sellers who constantly promote their services in multiple districts, it's as good an explanation for their actions as any.


* removes paranoia cap *

Just playing around with this, so don't take it to seriously. Is something to think about though.

Flame away!

OK, this is a little more understandable.

I agree, the patch is bad. Why fix what isn't broken. There were no complaints about AI/AOE before.

*Edit Not a proper quote box, I'm sorry, please excuse me...:

"ArenaNet is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I, for one, don't believe they deserve half the garbage directed at them in this thread and ones similar to this. "

But they do deserve half the garbage.

One simple avoidance tactic they could have used is a poll, about fixing the AI, with an explanation of something like (the monster will typically only ever endure 3-4 seconds of it, then scatter).
It would have been voted no, hands down.

I'm a modest Kryta farmer (solo monk build). Build still works, but what used to take me 5 minutes now takes 15 minutes with the undead running from me everytime I heal myself.

I retooled my ele to fire and air. Shared my new build with my guildmates who think it works great, and it does, but missions that used to take half an hour are now over an hour. Have to pin that boss that keeps running away and healing and coming back again.

Yes, I can think my way out of a paper bag, but ...... I now get less gaming pleasure in the amount of time I have to play. More frustration dealing with not-so-intelligent "artificial intelligence". And the feeling that more such "improvements" will be coming down the road.

I played the new "patch" that was implemented a short time ago but as yet have not seen any significant improvement. I don't know what Anet's long term goal is, but it seems like they are alienating a lot of previously loyal players.

hahaha love that conspiracy trinity, i would do it if i was them

its funny also people whine that fire is useless now, you should have tried being water before all their skills got boosted, you got removed from a group quicker than a ranger, up until this point probably 85% of the ele's in pve were fire, not only because it has way more skills, but you also get the useful ones sooner, i think its great, now all the farming groups in the warcamp are looking for necro's and mesmer's to go with them, its about time there was a little change in the favor of the characters imho.

First half of your post:
I would have voted no, my Aoe's don't do half the damage that they would before, AND my NPC's would freak out too?
They would have had to describe the effects, and no ele that loves his/her AOEs would have gone for it.

Re read that entire post again, you missed something.

I quoted someone else who said "they don't deserve half of "(paraphrase)
In all logic, it means that they do infact deserve the other half........

I don't think they sabotaged the game to hurt me. I just believe they sabotaged the game....not sure why.

For my part, I'm just a casual gamer..one who normally plays FPS. This is my first MMORPG (or whatever they're calling it this week) and I have enjoyed it very much - at least until yesterday - and was looking forward to the expansions. Not feeling so eager for them now.

But, in the end, it's just a game and means nothing to me in the grand scheme of things other than as a source of entertainment. If they choose to make it unenjoyable for me, I'll move on. No big deal. Always something new on the horizon to look forward to.

I don't like the update at all. I was happy with the way the game was before, and I wish it would be put back. I'm not going to flame or attack anyone. Just...I'm sitting here, debating about whether I even want to start the game tonight.

lol, it was my post.

What I meant was they didn't really deserve any. I understand the constructive criticisms people are giving, and ANet deserves those, but the whining and crying like "OMG, U RUIN GAME, Y U DO THAT?", they can do without.

Trust them, they've been developing games longer than you have.

if there were a heart or hug smiley I'd post a bunch. You're one of the very few who are disapointed, and not acting like you've just been evicted from your home. <3~

Glad you liked it. Wouldn't be the first time a corporation played it a little "dirty" to increase their profit margin, and it's not like anyones gonna stop them from doing it.

as long as we are whining about updates, personally i would like to see all the traders take a damn hike, i could actually sell runes, materials, dyes, and make a lot of money doing it, so lets get rid of them, oh yeah, and finding a group for hells precipice is NOT easy when you are a nec/warrior tank, so can we please give hundred blades back to the charr outside of piken square please????


ANet better give into my selfish demands, because they are making the game unenjoyable for me, and i will so totally not play anymore if they dont

(oh yeah and please re-break thunderclap, cause i didnt get to exploit that before it was fixed)

To clear that all up, Half of what their getting is the OMG you suck.

The other half, hopefully half I'm taking part in, the half they deserve, is the actualy discussion of the flaws, benifits, and sopporting actions and story behind each part.

That's whe way I read into it.

have you guys seen the farming video with ignite arrows??? the monsters run away every time they are shot, and they dont stay long enough to do any damage, making the ranger basically invincable to solo with, so why dont you guys make a ranger to farm with, im sure farming is the main thing here everyone is mad about, even though most people deny it on these boards

Because they're gonna be swinging their nerf bat at rangers next. If we hurry, we can get lvl'ed and get all our skills just in time to get ganked by the next update.

As much as I have played over the past 33 days since I bought GuildWars(over 300 hours on age) I never really gave too much attention to the patches, yes it did affect me but so long as I can adapt to it its all cool that is until last thursday's patch. It has ruined GuildWars for me and my friends and with this kind of radical patching we really have no intention of continuing on, even with the new updated patch.

I could not agree more. You hit the nail right on the head there.
Personally, I use a collectors axe, rod, ankh and sheild... and upgrades that I found.
But I am currently sitting on 3/4 of a mill, simply because of the love of gold items.
And as for collectors items... well. lol. They're usually Better than gold.

What they're gonna need to do is impliment collectors that give Ivory, Storm and Eternal bows... Flamberges and Fellblades... All that sort of crap. lol.
You know.. if they introduced a collector that gave 15^50 blue Crystalline swords for say... 5 ecto.. I'm CERTAIN that people woudl still pay 2.5 mill for one that was gold. LOL!

i think that is a bit dramatic, look how long it was since protective bond got nerfed until now, they really arent out to mess anyone up, althought if they feel like it there wouldnt be anything we can do about it, plus, if everyone really was mad enough to quit playing, then what is it to them? they have sold millions of copies of something that costs 50 dollars, so i would say they win, either way

not that i would quit anyways, i like to farm, but i mostly do it with my warrior or my necro, my necro doesnt use AoE, and my warrior just uses one, and now that means he has time to heal if he needs to, so its all good

I like the patch, it forces people to consider builds and skills they might otherwise have not used. My fire elementalist build has stayed pretty much constant since launch, filled up with fire AoE. Rangers have had to adapt their builds, Monks have, Warriors have, so why not the elementalist? The snare spells needed a boost, and AoE was way too effective in PvE.

AoE now does the same job in PvE as it does in PvP - it can be used to dissuade melee enemies from attacking you, and can be used to move the enemy around to where you want them. What I would like to see now is 'aimed' AoE where it can be used without any target - I think this would improve the tactical aspect of AoE.

LOL @ "It's just not the same" above.

But for this post..
I like my cute ele chick.(Yes, I'm a dude, but chicks get better help and free items in the game, from the guys who think it's gay to play a chick character, so that's a bonus)
I don't farm, I'm way too noob to do any of that, I'll introduce you ingame and you can see her levels, and you can come watch me die in the field.