MM build help?

Reve2uk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

W/N

this is a build i am setting up for my monk/necro. jsut woudnering if these certain set up will work.

Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
heal area
Animate Bone horror /Animate Bone Fiend
Signet of Devotion
Dark Bond
Marty
Infuse Condition

thing is will Marty work with infuse conditon? if it dose means i can be a monk minon master without ppl saying you do nothing as a monk :P

any improve ments are very much welcome

Jenhra T

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2005

I've played a necro primary as my main player since the game was released. I've got all the secondaries for her too... monk secondary seems to work out the best for keeping your minions alive as long as possible (heal area). I speak mainly from experience, so if my knowledge is a bit off from the official rules... I apologize. This is also my first post. Note: I use minions as a general term for Bone Horrors, Bone Minions, and Bone Fiends, if I am speaking of one in particular I might say horrors or fiends, but to decrease confusion the full name "Bone Minions" will be used to refer to them specifically (since minions alone will refer to all three types).

So the type of MM you want to do depends on what you want to use it for (pvp, farming, quests) and what you will be going up against. Here is some general advice (not particular to any build, but is directed more towards a monk secondary):

-Necro primaries make the best MM's for 3 reasons.
1. Soul reaping gives you an infusion of magic at exactly the right time, when an enemy dies, that way you can make a minion from their corpse (and your minions act as batteries giving you more energy whenever they die). It also gives you nice +X (X = the your level in soul reaping) above your head to let you know that something just died. So you can catch deaths as soon as they happen and so help keep yourself from suffering from corpse denial (see below).
2. Death magic runes For some skills higher levels in attributes mean that you get a few extra seconds or a few more points of damage. For others the jump is much larger and more significant. Minions are one of these more significant jumps. Each rank (a linear progression) in Death magic means you get a raise in the level of your minions (with increased health, armor, and damage). For Bone Fiends and Bone Horrors this means you will be able to consistently raise them at level 18 and with a +1 to Death item (20% chance) you will get a level 19 one-fifth of the time. This is very close to the max level of player characters, and you can probably maintain 20-30 if you get enough corpses left behind. That is a lot of firepower.
3. Bloodstained boots I explain these below (under corpse denial). Since they are armor only necro primaries can wear them. They don't make Necro primaries THAT much better though... reason number 1 and 2 are far more important.

Without the runes (since you are not a primary necro) you will max out at level 14 (with an occasional 15 if you have the right wand/stave/focus).

Without soul reaping you will probably run into energy management issues.

That's my push for necro primaries... now to the rest of the info...

Bone horrors:
-Have the highest armor, they can take pressure off of your tank(s).
-Are melee... they will run to engage the enemy.
-They are your cheap minion, usually good to bring along with one of the other two types to get as many minions up as quickly as possible.
-Hit the hardest

Bone fiends:
-Have range... which means they can switch targets very easily. It also means that more can engage the same enemy and do so more quickly.
-Because they are ranged... tend to clump together and stay closer to you and away from the enemy, which makes them the best for using heal area on (so that you won't accidently be healing the enemy).
-Hit softer than Horrors, but attack faster... overall damage rate is higher.

Bone minions:
-As expensive as bone fiends, they are just weaker bone horrors (4 levels lower), but you get 2 for 1 corpse.
-Hit the same as Bone Horror of same level
-Make excellent grenades (explained below)


All minions:
-Watch out for aggro, you can't control minions at all except by running very far away... which will sometimes cause them to break away from the fight to rejoin you. Bone fiends tend to be better about breaking away in my experience.
-All cause physical damage, this means that anything that affects or is affected by physical damage affects them (i.e. Barbs, Mark of Pain, Greater Conflageration, etc.).
-Minions are not considered party members but can usually be considered allies. This means that certain skills will not affect them (such as Order of Pain, Order of Vampire), this would be highly overpowered if they did though. They can, however, be affected by Life Bond, Healing Breeze, or other spells that affect "ally" or "other ally."
-Minions degen more and more over time, the cap is -10, but that is not the "behind the screen" cap. Eventually Verata's Sac along with healing breeze or any other regen will no longer work. At this time only instant heals such as heal area or Blood of the Master will help keep them alive. Usually it is a good idea to just let the fast dying ones fall and conserve your energy.

Strategies for skills for MM:
-Barbs can be used to kill a single enemy extremely quickly (with a high curses skill) since all the damage minions cause is physical. This is great against the last man standing (i.e. bosses) since all your minions will focus their fire on him.
-Death Nova is good fun. You will already have a high Death Attribute, so the damage will be maxed out for you. You will also be having guys (your minions) dying around you all the time that you can cast it on. It is nice AoE damage and causes poison to enemies in the blast area. This is preferentially cast on melee fighters, mainly Bone Minions, to turn them into grenades since they will run forward and get close to the enemy. Bone Minions are the best for this since they die quickly and you get two for one corpse, and so you get maximum use and damage from Death Nova.
-Taste of Death, good way to set off your Death Nova grenades when you want them to (otherwise the enchantment may wear off), gives you an extremely good heal in the process.
-Dark Bond is an excellent way to tank, at the cost of your minions, just use it when you have lots of them and you are getting focus fired.
-[B]Well of Blood will regen all of your minions in the AoE, Well of Power will stack with this regen. Plus these will help teammates too without benefiting enemies (as Heal Area does), downside is that it uses up a corpse.
-Blood of the Master will heal nearby minions without healing enemies, but it will cost you life. For two infusions of health (when no enemies are nearby) use Heal Area right afterwards to heal yourself of your sacrifice and to heal your minions more.
-Heal Area, watch out for enemies, you don't want to constantly be healing them. This is more effective with fiends as they will stay closer to you. Good way to heal yourself after your sacrifices from Blood of the Master and/or Verata's Sac.
-Verata's Aura, ALWAYS bring to pvp (if you are playing a MM). Otherwise your minions will turn against you once a single primary or secondary necro on the other team uses this. I don't know what PvE enemies use it (if any) so I don't usually bring it out for PvE (since you will lose all your minions when it ends... though you can just renew it). Good to bring for fun to pvp even if your build isn't MM, since it will screw over the MM's unless they have it too.
-Verata's Sacrifice, you MUST bring this skill unless you don't care about keeping your minions alive. This is the easiest way to do it. It also removes conditions from them to help them stay alive longer, or to remove their weakness, or their cripple, etc. making them more effective. You just get it instead, so live with it, ask a monk for help, or bring your own condition removal. In my experience this skill works on your minions even if party members cast it, don't know if this has been changed (I haven't done MM with a fellow necro player in a long time).
-Purge Conditions works well since it is cheap, fast, unlinked, you can target yourself, can remove multiple conditions, and it renews even faster than Verata's Sacrifice (which means you can use it each time if need be).
-Verata's Gaze is useful for stealing enemy minions (for when the enemies beats you to the corpse), but it needs to be used twice to get a single minion. I found that it isn't very useful for this purpose, since your own minions (and party members) will probably have it down to half health or dead before you get control of it (Verata's Aura is far superior for this purpose). It is, however, very useful with Malign Intervention.
-Malign Intervention, uses are three-fold. One, you are making the enemy drop more quickly if they have some way to heal. Two, you are denying the corpse from being used by enemy necros since it is automatically raised as a masterless Bone Horror; just use Verata's Gaze (only one casting) to make it yours. Three, the savings in energy. Yes, Animate Bone Horror equals 15 energy and Malign Interv + Verata's Gaze = 15 energy, BUT your 10 energy cast from Malign Iterv is regenerating while you are waiting for the enemy to die, meaning that to get the minion you only have to spend 5. In addition, if there is someone stealing corpses (finishing corpse based spells before you complete yours) you may waste that full 15 whereas most enemies don't carry V's Gaze and you will get the masterless horror almost guaranteed. The only downside it the recharge time is slow so you can't spam this around.
-Tainted Flesh can be good fun combined with Death Nova to give everyone in the area (as disease spreads) both Poison and Disease for a good amount of health degen.
-Offering of Blood is a good way to get some fast energy, your minions will cost you a lot of energy, just have a good heal monk on your team or use heal area if you have it (though that would be less effective since it will cost you energy also). Mesmer secondary is also a good way to manage energy.
-Mark of Pain kicked all kinds of butt in mobs before the new AI. Still useful for dumb pvp players. With 20+ minions (if they happen to target the same enemy) and Curses at 12 you would be dealing 34 damage to all baddies near the target. That used to bring down mobs quick (680+ damage about every one and a half seconds... I can't remember their exact attack speeds). Now with AoE AI the crowd kind of disperses. Good if you want to have this effect, bad for killing them (unless they happen to run together). If you are going to use it, don't combine with Barbs since you want your target to last as long as possible to spread the pain around.
-Well of Suffering, your a MM, your Death Magic is high, you need corpses right? Cast this on the first corpse to fall and you spread a nice degen around that the AI won't run away from. This makes more corpses fall more quickly. More corpses = good. Don't use if there are no other corpses to be had unless you deem it more helpful than another minion. Putrid Explosion has the same application with faster damage.
-Infuse Condition, useful if you have no condition removal (yourself or party member) and you are really worried about getting the conditions passed to you. I usually just bite the bullet and choose a different skill.

Corpse Denial:
You will be denied corpses. Corpses can only be used once. There are quite a few skills that use corspes. All of them are faster than any of the "Animate X" skills. You may also be in the middle of casting "Animate X" when another body falls. Then an enemy starts to cast, and they will finish before you. Not getting to use a corpse is called "corpse denial." There are several things that can help you out:
-Wand/Staff/Focus with 20% chance fast cast (and skill renewal) for Death Magic Skills. I think the collector in Snake's Dance gives you one of these. Try to find a Wand and Focus with this if you want to increase your chances (don't know if this combo exists, I use Staff personally).
-Mesmer primary. Fast Casting. Spell interrupts or Diversion (to stop their casting of "Animate X" if multiple corpses fall). But you do give up the soul reaping (can be made up for with Inspiration skills) and the runes to get higher level minions (not as important for certain builds such as Bone Minions + Death Nova).
-Bloodstained Boots (only for primary necros). I've been in an argument with a friend about this before and whether or not if they actually work. This doesn't work like fast casting, it works like the wand/staff/focus item. There is a CHANCE that you get faster corpse exploitation, it is not a guarantee. I don't know what the chance is (probably 10%), but I do know that I would occasionally pull off an animate skill far faster than normal even though I had no Wand/Staff/Focus which increased speed (but I did have Bloodstained Boots on). Good place to keep your Rune of Fortitude since you really don't ever need to take them off.
-Malign Intervention (see above for explanation). Combine with Verata's Gaze to actually get the horror on your side.
-Kill the enemy necro. Call targets on them first. Get rid of them. If they are dead, they can't steal corpses (and will most likely be a corpse you can use).
-Your own corpse denial skills. Your Wells, Necrotic Traversals, and Consume Corpses operate faster than their "Animate X" skills. Though this doesn't give you the minion, it gives you other benefits (health, energy, damage to enemies, enchantment stripping) along with denying them the minion. My favorite is consume corpse since it heals me and gives me more energy so I am ready for the next corpse.
-Don't be forced to share. This may seem obvious, but I am including it for the benefit of all. Generally it is NOT a good idea for two necro's to use corpse spells. Coordinate with other necros before leaving to make sure you don't steal corpses. Just ask. Say "My build uses corpses. Does yours?" This is VERY important if your primary is not a necro, as it is assumed that most corpse users are primary necros and a primary necro might not ask if there are no other primary necro's.

Good tips:
-"Doing the dance." Heal Area and Blood of the Master have a limited range. If you start casting spells on your minions they will start spacing themselves in a circle around you. If you get enough minions, the circle will get larger and the minions will be farther away. Then your AoE for these heals will not get all of them. If you run around in small circles ("doing the dance") then you will aggro them together into a tighter bunch and be able to affect more minions with these two spells.
-Stay alive. Trust me, nothing will kill your party faster than a large group of buffed minions who have a nice +10 health regen, Tainted Flesh, and multiple Death Novas on them that suddenly turn into enemies because they no longer have a master, this, IN ADDITION to the enemies that are already there. A secondary necro teammate using a skill slot for Verata's Aura can help save you from this fate if you are really worried about it (I generally don't).
-Verata's Sacrifice and Death Nova are enchantments. They will last longer if you have an item that makes enchantments last longer. Switching to this item right before casting this will make them last longer (useful for putting Death Nova on a swarm of minions before going to the next PvE group). Also be sure that the enemy doesn't have Shatter Enchantment or something similar. You will be losing your minions faster and won't get the damage from Death Nova or the health regen from V's Sac. Just stick to Blood of the Master and Heal Area for enemies that remove enchantments.
-Minions go away if you go through a portal, don't bother keeping them up if you are about to leave the area.
-Go with a patient group, or henchies. You will be the busiest in the party AFTER the battle is over. Impatient groups will keep on running while you are trying to make your army. So you have to choose between going with them, or leaving the corpses behind. This is usually where energy is a bigger factor than skill refresh. Your animate skills are expensive (and slow to cast) and you don't have Energy Storage. Items will offset the speed but not the energy. This is why it is a good idea to constantly be summoning minions (while you are getting soul reaping, if you have it) while enemies are dying. Offering of Blood is your only respite as a necro (consume corpse helps but uses the corpse). If someone else can bring BiP or Blood Ritual (such as the necro henchie) then you don't have to worry as much.
-Kill animals. You know, the neutral creatures. They are easy to beat and will give you a corpse you can use. Good for getting that initial minion.
-Use your team for that initial kill, design them around it, once you get the minion factory going you will be causing more damage than anyone else out there. But remember, if you are short on bodies because the enemy doesn't leave corspes behind (damn elementals and skeletons), or it is a long time between fights (your minions WILL eventually die off), you will need their firepower again. So don't spread yourself TOO thin.
-Curses are good. Things like Enfeebling Blood or Shadow of Fear will reduce the damage output of your enemies. This will decrease the damage intake of your minions (and party members). This will mean Verata's Sac can keep up with damage and you won't have to use Blood of the Master or Heal area as often (conserving energy for more minions).

There is more to say. I could give you several strategies. But reviewing the skills and mixing and matching them will reveal strategies on their own. Just pick stuff appropriate to what you want to achieve.

Now that I am finished with the general guidelines, I am going to advise on your build specifically (but it would help if I knew what you wanted to use it for).

Quote:
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
heal area
Animate Bone horror /Animate Bone Fiend
Signet of Devotion
Dark Bond
Marty
Infuse Condition

thing is will Marty work with infuse conditon? if it dose means i can be a monk minon master without ppl saying you do nothing as a monk :P Verata's Sacrifice + Blood of the Master will keep your minions full of health for a long time. Heal Area helps a lot too, and makes up for you health sacrifice, but it will help fiends more during the fight. Signet of Devotion is only worth a slot if you are low on health, and have no energy to cast a heal spell. It also doesn't benefit from Divine Favor (the only reason to be a monk primary) since it is not a spell. I would switch this out for something more useful. Dark Bond is definately a good tanking skill. Keeps you alive, but hurts your minions more. I generally hang back and don't get target much, so I don't need to use it except in certain areas/missions. Martyr and Infuse condition will work as you wanted. You will take all of the conditions from your party and give it to your closest minion, as long as you make sure you have Infuse Condition up first. But I would recommend this instead:

Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Heal Area
Animate Bone Horror
Animate Bone Fiend
Purge Conditions
Healing Seed
Offering of Blood [E]

With this you still get what you were looking for... and more. You can help your teammates with Purge Conditions still (thought not the whole party at once) without taking the risk of bringing conditions onto yourself. After all, what do you do if you don't have a minion to infuse the condition into at the time? Personally I would just live with the conditions or get another monk to remove them. You can also put Healing Seed on your tank, helping them a lot in staying alive until that first corpse falls. When you've got them, you can use it on your horror or fiend that is getting targeted by the enemy. This will act as a remote AoE heal. Offering of Blood will give you some good energy management if you can get your blood up to a decent level (I would sacrifice points in Healing Prayers before Death Magic though in order to do this). When the first body drops you can summon a Fiend. Watch for enemies dropping. If you aren't going to get another one anytime soon, use V's Sac to give the fiend regen. Use Offering of Blood to help with energy. When you get your corpses summon minions left and right switching between fiends and horrors (horrors are less expensive). Switch to your longer enchantment Wand/Staff/Focus and cast Verata's Sac. Use Blood of the Master if health is low enough, regardless, then do a Offering of Blood if it is ready, finish with a Heal Area to make up for your sacrifices and to finish of getting minions up to full health.

This build will help keep your minions alive as long as possible. I use a different setup, but my character is a primary necro. I've got much stronger minions available to me. I use Death, Blood, and Soul Reaping for farming Sorrow's Furnace. You could also substitute Blood with Curses, but you would be casting more and not have Offering of Blood so you will be in an even worse situation with energy (not good in that area). But that area is great for necro primaries with all the deaths (and thus soul reaping).

Here is a build that is fun for all, and still pretty viable for non-Necro primaries (since it doesn't need powerful minions, but soul reaping definately helps it still).

Animate Bone Minions
Animate Bone Horror
Death Nova
Taste of Death
Putrid Explosion
Suffering
Shadow of Fear
Feast of Corruption [E]

Have a high death and high curses (higher curses for this build). When the enemy gets close (and is bunched up) cast Shadow of Fear followed by Suffering. This hexes the whole bunch (twice) and makes them attack slower and gives them health degen. Follow up witha Feast of Corruption right away to cause a lot of damage and to get your health back up. Repeat until you get a corpse. Use Putrid Explosion (you should now get several corpses). Use Animate Bone Minions and cast Death Nova on each of them. They will go into the fight and start fighting. They will die quickly. They will explode. Your enemies will now be poisoned. Use Animate Bone Horror only when you want to save energy and have a lot of corpses. Use Taste of Death and Feast of Corruption as your heals. Use Taste of Death for a premature explosion if your little guy isn't going to go down before Death Nova wears off.

In this build you are just causing massive damage. You can take on whole mobs. You are reliant on corpses, but not so much as the other build. The idea is not to conserve corpses or use them as your army, but to exploit them. Consume Corpse could be substituted in for some energy management, perhaps replacing one of the "Animate X" skills.

Hope this helps.

ivanthefool

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Jenhra T, That is a great guide, you have my vote for a sticky mm guide.

bulbaz0r

bulbaz0r

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ghent, Belgium

Knight of Darkness Europe

Mo/

²nd vote. This helped me out a lot! I'm a N/R. I use this build for PvE

Minion Forrester

Necromancer/Ranger
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 10 (9+1)
Death Magic: 15 (12+3)
Beast Mastery: 5
Wilderness Survival: 8

Serpent's Quickness (Wilderness Survival)
Troll Unguent (Wilderness Survival)
Consume Corpse (Death Magic)
Blood of the Master (Death Magic)
Verata's Sacrifice (Death Magic)
Animate Bone Horror (Death Magic)
Animate Bone Fiend (Death Magic)
Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)

The choice of secondary Ranger is quite easy to explain. The serpent's Quickness helps me reload Verata's Sacrifice 33% faster. Troll unguent heals me back when I used Verata's Sacrifice. Or it's just a personal healing skill.
Consume corpse, when being REALLY low on energy or when a lot of enemies are attacking you, I don't like wasting corpses but sometimes I have to! And I equip Charm animal, because I see my Bear as a minion too, it's cannonmeat .

bulbazor

witaker

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

jehnra T's build has told u about how it helps for a regular group. however if u want a group tht is primarily based on fiends, horrors and minions you should use a mf group (minion factory). this group is also a good choice bc it gives nooby necros a chance to be in a good tombs group. they will be saccers. all a saccer needs is BIP (blood is power) and a vampiric weapon and a superior runefor their primary profession. the superior rune gives you as low health as possible so u die faster. u may also have a secondary item like a cesta tht has -health. by all means use it it helps every bit. the key is to kill yourself. then the mm's (minioin masters) make you into a feind. the mm's need everything tht janhra T listed in her post. but some of the skills used to benifit the tanks are not needed. then the rezmers who are mesmers useing a fastcasting skill to res idk witch one it is. res u and u auto die bc of the vampiric weapon. one more thing needed in a good mf group is a trapper. these are rangers who set traps.so we ( the mm and saccers) can have more time to make as many fiends minions and horrors as possible.

livejamie

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2009

I just wanted to bump this, because I found it incredibly useful.

Anybody have any thoughts, since this is a 4 year old post, is it still pretty accurate?

I'll look into N/R or N/Mo?

Alquin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

London

E/Me

Just bumping this as it still looked relevent and I'm about to change my Necro's 2nd to ranger and see how I got on.

Any advice?

Puebert

Puebert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

I would go N/Mo or N/Rt for prot skills or weapon spells. N/R isn't as good anymore as Blood of the Master with Heal Area variations has been buffed (since this thread was made) to be the best way to keep your minions alive.

-Edit-

Also, here is a more up to date Minion Guide.

And some example builds:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/any_OoU_Minion_Master
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/an..._Minion_Master