I am thinking of leaving these forums..

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coolyguy
coolyguy
Desert Nomad
#21
If you change the bumping rule to 12 Hours it would definitely be total chaos.

What I do agree on; is that you guys should create a High End item section. You guys have a well known trader as Moderator. Nef can easily select and move what threads/items he feels belong on the High End item section.

ProblemSolved!
Divinus Stella
Divinus Stella
Desert Nomad
#22
/signed
I havent posted here for long, but i had my first thread closed because i thought bumping was once per day instead of once every 24hrs, so i was 4hrs too early, no warning, just closed on a lame technicality.

edit - shanksie - sorry for "abusing my power" - but i don't really see the need for another post. You broke the rules - as clearly stated, and whilst i DO allow some flexiblity your bump was beyond that, how can you complain? (and if you do wish to complain - i clearly posted that I had closed your thread, so why not complain to me then?)

and for everyones information, the thread in question: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=78702

a bump which wasn't "4hrs too early" but more like over 8 hours. Which is the ONLY thread Divinus Stella has had closed. And since the thread was closed - the user has followed the guidelines - so imho a perfect example of how to turn a "bad" user into a "good" user.
coolyguy
coolyguy
Desert Nomad
#23
From what I was told by Chief. is that Regular Moderators aren't even allowed to delete threads. Only if it's extremely necessary such as posters putting porn photos or such.
fakedud
fakedud
Krytan Explorer
#24
/signed

edit - shanksie - any particular reason?
Shanksie
Shanksie
Toilet Master
#25
please post your opinions - Aria is just watching - she is all fluffy really

and marik if you have any further points to raise, now is the time to do so....
a
arbiter
Desert Nomad
#26
I think a good idea would be to create new subforums, for each type of item to be sold, like a seperate area to post bows,swords, sheilds, axes, etc. If some1 wanted to sell an assortment there could be another section for that also. I think it would cause less push back on threads and create more orginazation. Im not sure if thats possible to do tho, and im sure theres probably a set back im not thinking of
Shanksie
Shanksie
Toilet Master
#27
No in fairness arbiter (and anyone else), having sub - forums is something i have been considering for some time. Whether to divide them by weapon type, continent (USA / Eu) or by some other factor is just one of the stumbling blocks atm.

EDIT - This was just one of MANY possible suggestions that had been made in the past - don't get excited - we realise the negatives as well as you all seem to
Aria
Aria
Sig Fairy
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by CowPoop only reason im in this forums is 90% for offtopic threads but /signed- reason- moderators... alot of the moderators are jackasses I.E- u flame in a thread becuz of a retard or something that also is flaming, they send u a msg and not the other person or delete ur posts and not the other persons. Flaming a person who has flamed you is still considered flaming.

It's common logic, really. Having a pattern of "He flamed me, so I will flame him" results in a cycle of "flame, flame flamer, flame the flamer that flamed the original flamer," etc. Thus, instead of having to delete 20 posts of insults hurled back and forth, we would like to stop it at post number 1. Hence, those that flame back are considered just as much of a violator as the flame starter. It is wholly within everyone's powers to step back and to either leave the argument, or to maturely, calmly and politely respond without personal insults or attacks.

As for the other concerns, new moderators are in the process of being reviewed and added. If any of you have suggestions, feel free to privately PM me. As I get a high volume of PMs each day, I can't guarantee a reply, but please know that I am very grateful and appreciative of your input and suggestions!

As for the new bumping rules, we've had numerous and very very frequent instances of threads that will have over 20 off-topic responses on issues that vary from other people's personal lives to flaming. Even if the responses are on the item in question, the seller should not have to dig through 20 responses to find one bid hidden between the chatter. The trade forums are made for trade, and recently, it's looked more like the off-topic forum than the trade forum.

Most importantly, however, is the additional reason that Shanksie provided for having the bump rule. Having others give your thread "free bumps" is not very fair to the other traders who are vying, just as you are, to place their threads on the first page. Exploits of "free bumps" are also incredibly difficult and near impossible to regulate. If people love your item, they will bid. For high end and high price items, we will start discussing the idea and hopefully find a solution that will integrate suggestions.

In the meantime, please use this thread to post further suggestions, comments and ideas. Please please do NOT flame, attack any member of this forum, and please try to keep it polite. If you have specific conflicts or problems with any of the moderators, send me a PM and please concisely state your concerns and the accompanying evidence. Expansive, vague statements like "all the moderators are tyrants!" are generally unhelpful to pinpointing the problem, and I can do nothing further except ask you to be more precise with a PM sent directly to me.

Let's use this thread as a type of brainstorm to better the forums. As always, unconstructive replies and flames will be moderated as appropriate. And please keep in mind: if your suggestion/comment is just that -- a polite, calm suggestion/comment, you will need not fear any moderation.

Thanks everyone, and please feel free to PM any questions to me as well.

Aria
GWG Forum Admin
Shanksie
Shanksie
Toilet Master
#29
please comment - as you can see, we could either close/delete this thread (which we obviously didn't do) or we could sticky it (which we obviously did do) - we do want you imput.

Shanksie

(however if you are going to post "i was treated unfairly - the mods blow! then please be prepared for us to look into your claims - as we do with any complaint).

EDIT - as most of this concerns the SELL forum i have moved it over (with a redirection still in the ETC forum).
RedHorn
RedHorn
Academy Page
#30
I agree there should be a high-end forum. I hear people saying we are low on mods and if we open a high-end forum wouldn't this create even more of a bind? There will always be those people that think their item is worth a lot and they will post in there. This would probably be occuring regularly.
voutlaw
voutlaw
Banned
#31
agree entirey with capatalist
Mindcrime
Mindcrime
Krytan Explorer
#32
I agree, a highend item forum would be a great contribution to gwg.
faeth
faeth
Roffles With Syrup
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by coolyguy
If you change the bumping rule to 12 Hours it would definitely be total chaos.

What I do agree on; is that you guys should create a High End item section. You guys have a well known trader as Moderator. Nef can easily select and move what threads/items he feels belong on the High End item section.

ProblemSolved! Agreed. However, Nef obviously can't be on 24/7 so more mods would have to join in this as well. And also, if a high-end item section was put into place, how would an item be evaluated and then either deemed fit or not fit for the section? There are certain items which may be of great value to some people, and not others, etc. If there was some sort of a review process in which the mods that actually did move the threads to the high-end section looked at it and then voted on it or something, that may work. But this also would take a lot of time considering the mods can't be on all day every day.

Or..
Obviously there are a lot of people that come into contact with high-end items pretty frequently...maybe they could be given special privledges to post in the high-end section when they like? Sort of like the Supreme Court...you need permission to argue a case there, you can't just do it if you're anyone. This may promote some sort of favoritism, but it may be a way. Other people that don't have the privledges could PM a moderator for individual review etc.
Old Dood
Old Dood
Middle-Age-Man
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Aria
Thanks everyone, and please feel free to PM any questions to me as well.

Aria
GWG Forum Admin See that last line? Aria means just that! I had a complaint about a moderator...I PM'd Aria about it. I just stated my case. Everything was resolved. I did not fully agree with Aria at the time either. Now that I look back and see how the Moderator in question is doing his/her job...I see that Aria was correct in her decision. (I think Aria is a her) Aria happened to have more information then I did....I could only see from my own angle. Aria could see much more then that. So I understood Aria's position and that was the right thing too do.

Anyways the point being is that the Administrators are available to PM. They do work overtime to try to make your virtual life here an enjoyable one. Just be polite and state your case....in time you will see that they are actually on top of more then you might realize at the time. Take a deep breath....do not let emotions rule your thinking either.
Shanksie
Shanksie
Toilet Master
#35
One suggestion i will make:

All items get posted into a standard forum, as is the case now. And once the BIDDING exceeded a set amount - say 100k / 250k / 500k / 750k / 1000k then the thread would be moved (by an admin) into the high-end forum. This way the BIDS prove what a "high end" item is, and it is not down to some ones opinion. (obviously anyone bidding 1000k on a 14-20 white long sword will get moderated).

thoughts....

{i'm not saying it WILL happen, i am proposing a solution to a problem as presented in this thread)
faeth
faeth
Roffles With Syrup
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by Shanksie
One suggestion i was going to make

All items get posted into a standard forum, as is the case now. And once the BIDDING exceeded a set amount - say 100k / 250k / 500k / 750k / 1000k then the thread would be moved (by an admin) into the high-end forum. This way the BIDS prove what a "high end" item is, and it is not down to some ones opinion. (obviously anyone bidding 1000k on a 14-20 white long sword will get moderated).

thoughts....

{i'm not saying it WIL happen, i am proposing a solution to a problem as presented in this thread) That idea owned mine. But what if it's an auction and there is a godly item that is included? Would the whole thread get moved or would the seller have to make a new thread with only that item included?
Shanksie
Shanksie
Toilet Master
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by faeth
That idea owned mine. But what if it's an auction and there is a godly item that is included? Would the whole thread get moved or would the seller have to make a new thread with only that item included? the mod could cut and paste the relevant item from the list and keep a link in the original list to direct users to the high end item.

shanksie *cough* not just a pretty face*cough*
id0l
id0l
Jungle Guide
#38
Another thing that we may be overlooking. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger at the active and fair mods (Shanks and Nef - regardless of whether or not you like them they ARE doing their jobs to the best of their ability - which is enforcing the rules), maybe we should instead focus some attention on other moderators of the Ventari Sell Forum. I see many mods in the list that are nowhere near as active (if at all) as the aforementioned; now, I am not trying to criticize or bash these other moderators - but TBPH, I have never seen them online (and yes, I'm on alot...I usually keep a Ventari window running on my comp ) at the same time as me (I am referring to the sell forum only). And to top it off, no enforcing of the rules, if they are online. I will of course concede that they have RL jobs, families, etc., to contend to (not that Shanks and Nef don't of course), but that basically - Ventari's Sell is moderated by only two people. I mean, how often do you see these guys online (or moderating here): Serafita Kayin, EnDinG, MCS, Aniewiel, Billiard, [Savio & Lasareth - were they just now added? ]? I'm not trying to point fingers or place blame; but just reinforcing the fact that too much responsibility has been placed on the only 2 active moderators.

I would love to make a contribution to the site wherein I could moderate the sell forum and enforce rules myself as well, as I am often on when the mods are not. However, this is left to the discretion of the Admins of GwG.

Marik, you're my bud, but you also have to realize the sheer amount of, well, just STUFF, these mods have to sift thru. If it were just you and Shanks, don't you think you would miss things, be bashed on for enforcing the rules (and temp banning, etc.)? Just some fuel for the fire. <3

Peace,
id0l
DSey
DSey
Wilds Pathfinder
#39
I am personally more in favour of the different subforums for each item type than the previously suggested 'low end' and 'high end' item forums. There is no doubt that the forum moderators will know what constitutes as 'low' and what as 'high', but you can't escape that human judgement is involved. It's easier to moderate simple facts(a hammer thread posted in a sword forum is in the wrong place) than it is to moderate threads on item value. Sooner or later seperation based on item value will probably result into a form of elitism.

Quote: Originally Posted by Shanksie
No in fairness arbiter (and anyone else), having sub - forums is something i have been considering for some time. Whether to divide them by weapon type, continent (USA / Eu) or by some other factor is just one of the stumbling blocks atm. I would be a little wary of creating USA - EU orientated forums. Because, unintentionally, you'd create a division, a gap between the two. GuildWars the game goes way beyond geographical locations. And, I think most traders on these forums will have traded with players from both regions. Although that would still be possible, it'd be tougher because a USA player would be less inclined to check the Euro section. A possible problem might even be when they notice the USA section moves way faster than the Euro section(it has probably more players/forum members) and then decide to crosspost their auctions.

Subforums based on item type would probably work best. I think it will be easiest to moderate and for the members it's easier to use, because you know what you are shopping for. Now when you want to buy a sword you basically have to check every thread because a sword can be hidden everywhere. Arbiter's idea of an extra 'assortment' forum for general auctions isn't a bad idea. With forums for each item type plus a 'general' section, you'd cover everything. Things will move slower and the forums will thus be both more user friendly as moderator friendly. However, more forums could of course also mean more work.
faeth
faeth
Roffles With Syrup
#40
One problem with having subforums for different items (swords, hammers, bows, etc) would be that people trying to auction off a variety of different items would have no where to post their threads. There would either have to be a seperate subforum that allowed for multiple-item threads, or if there wasn't, there would be a dramatic increase of threads created across the boards.