My Gripe...

I know people are gonna tell me to grow some skill or something but, in PVP mode, monks run everything. A group with like 2 or 3(4 is just unlikely, actually i wouldnt be surprised with there numbers) monks will allways dominate or so it seems. I can kill any other class(mesmers conjure phantasm i do hate though) with a pretty good rate of success. Heck in RP mode in the arena's I do pretty good to.

The point of this all is, I think that...monks should be,um, for the sake of not wanting to say the N word, made slightly weaker.Every one is either a monk or wants a monk, it should be Monk Wars, cause thats all i see because they are overpowered.

Edit: sorry, i think this should go another forum(riverside inn?) if not not just leave it here.

ok, first it was "damn palllys, overpowered" (as in W/Mo), now it's monks thats overpowered. i think this was answered in a pre-release post if i recall right. teams with lots of monks lack in damage power so its kinda easy to stand up to em, sort of . anyway im a R/Mo with only ranger skills cept resurect and im dont get upset if i get banged up tens of times in a row. i must be doing something wrong so i change my tactics, which in this game is so easy.

edit: actually, if you think about it, a well built build (nice word play hehe) in the hands of a skilled player and also with a good team will always be overpowered

I can understand your frustration. When groups start to co-ordinate their group builds, it starts to be more difficult to take down another group. Multiple monks are difficult, but other the other hand, with a little planning from within your guild, you can come up with an anti-Monk strategy. Start to look for interrupting or knockdown abillity. Keep the Monks from casting. Taking away energy is another way. A duo of a Ranger and a Mesmer can do havoc to a team of monks. It'll take work, but odds are, the team of monks have planned some stategy themselves.

Well, one on one is a different story. But you are complaining because your going against a group of monks? Of course they are going to be hard to take down. Every class is balanced in this game, there is no need to come here and complain about a class been better than another when you are taking about 4 of the same class in a group.

To the OP, shut up. This type of whining is what ruins games. It pits profession against profession in a battle of getting the other nerfed. So you got your butt kicked by a group of monks. Big deal. So a coordinated team bested you? Not too shocking. How about this for a solution? Get better. Get a proper team together and get coordinated. No... Forget that. That's almost like work. Best just whine to the devs and get Monks nerfed. I wonder what you'll say if you ever decide to play a Monk?

Way to keep an open mind there, vemp.

m19

Look.. I've played a ton of City of Heroes. I have seen some pretty serious nerfing going on in that game for this very reason. Someone gets their butt kicked in PvP so they start whining on the boards. Eventually enough people get sucked into the whining and the nerf bats come out in full force. It's ridiculous. I've played a bit of WoW and read the boards a fair bit for it. It's a million times worse in WoW than it is in CoH from what I've seen as far as cries for nerfing go. Maybe you like the possibility of logging on one day to find your build totally gimped all because your profession kicked some butt in PvP a bit too much for some whiner's liking. Personally, I don't like the prospect of that. Each to their own though.

People have to understand one thing about PvP and this goes for all games that have it: Every single build should not be able to necessarily take on every other build. There are weaknesses and strengths to every build. If someone figures out such weaknesses and defeats someone, does that mean the victor should be nerfed? Apparently many people think so. Especially when team tactics come into play, certain groups should be able to crush completely. A team of coordinated Monks should do extremely well. (Although the coordination probably plays more of a part in the victory than the actual builds do.) The ability to heal themselves constantly is a force to be reckoned with. Does that mean that Monks should immediately get nerfed? No. Should there be a limit to the number of Monks per team? No. Should people have to reconsider how they deal with taking out a group of Monks? Absolutely. I know it's far easier to cry "Nerf!" than it is to actually think about about how best to deal with them though, so I unfortunately understand why so many people take the lazy, easy road.

It's not the monks that dominate, it's their ability to support other classes. This is why they are always the primary targets. You can deal with them in any number of ways, but something like interrupts, backfire, energy drains, distraction, or scourge healing can shut them down.

If you're having trouble with monks, perhaps your group is not properly equipped to deal with them.

Keep in mind that a group of pure monks is wonderful at tanking, but not particularly wonderful at doing damage.. YES, they have smiting and secondary professions, but damage is simply not the focus of the monk. That leaves you a little bit of breathing room.

So, since you probably are not able to do more damage than they can heal, why not concentrate on skills that prevent or weaken healing?

Necro:

Defile Flesh or, better yet, Malign Intervention
* NOT Rend Enchantments.. You'll die with every cast

Ranger:

Frozen Soil (prevents resurrection for everyone, but since they're doing less damage, it's likelier to hurt them). Dazing slows casting down.

Mesmer:

Monks with no energy are monks that can't heal.. Monks that can't cast spells are monks that can't heal. Plus, you can stack a lot of DoT effects (Chaos Storm + Phantasm + Secondary Skills) that are hard to heal when they're working in conjunction. Spells like Shame are better for handling single monks than a group, granted... but still. Arcane Conundrum slows casting times.


The reason monks are tough to beat is because too few people are playing classes antagonistic to them. Most people I see are warriors, monks, elementalists or some combination thereof. If you concentrate on pure damage output, monks will own you.

I despise nerfing with a passion.

Nerf is only good at picnics.

You want to take on the monks make yourself a mes/nec they have plenty of anti monk goodness.

I find monks very easy to kill. I'm a warrior/mesmer so I just cast backfire and make them bleed...get in a few good hits when they are forced to heal a team mate or themselves, and they die. It really isn't that hard.

Every class wasn't meant to own everyone. They have strengths and weaknesses. A lone monk is easy to kill if you know how to do it. A group of monks arn't going to kill you if your group works together.

End of discussion

Keep one thing in mind. All of those other games are pay as you play.. so the Dev's kinda HAVE to listen to the people putting food on their tables...

That's the best thing about this game. They can do what the hell they like. And you have to sit back and LIKE IT!

So to you bratty little whiney bastards out there who feel it necessary to complain when you get stomped.

/suckitdown <--- the best emote ever! (courtesy of the Matrix Online Dev's)

I love this game. Absolutely the best damn game of this genre, I have EVER played.

Great job guys!

--\
Vengyre Stormhand

I guess i was a little angry when i posted this so it comes off as I am whinning and complaining, like u guys have allready said some strats, it should have been more like" I can't see mto find an effective way to deal with monks, what are some stratagies" So, yeah. I am a W/N (swords) so I dont have to many anti-casting spells, and i have only reached yak's today so dont expect a lot of skills either(roughly about 9W and 10N skills)

And thank you vengyre you ever so kind.

you know... I like this game too... but Im inclined to agree that the wa/mo is out of hand, and overbearing. Yeah getting owned by a group of wa/mo is not questionable or stange at all. But its to the point now that in Koga that if your NOT a wa/mo your most likey gonna get owned.

At Koga, I kill just about every damn Pally I see. You just have to know what your doing.

Well 3 monk teams I personally hate, but I dont think the W/Mo, or Monk in general is overpowered. It seems that way if you go head to head with a W/Mo with most builds, and iv been there too trying to crush a monk with my hammer warrior but failing. Thing is with my latest character iv been chewing them up a few times, and on the W/Mo I know that when the dude gets into a melee with one of my team I can destroy him if I get the chance.

Personally, the biggest problem is when one team gets a monk, and the other doesn't, it is almost a guaranteed loss, I've fought on teams where I am the only Wa/Mo, and not actually a healer mind you (I'm a self serving bastard I assure you), while we are facing down 2 monk primaries and 2 wa/mos together. Really, balance needs to be done.

Try the hardest to not include 2 of the same classes on one team, I've had 3 warrior primaries while the other team had none with 3 necromancers, granted I figured we had the advantage and won, it doesn't help to get tactics moving when all of us are simply hacking at a target, while if we had a necromancer we could desecrate enchantments or well of blood us.

This goes double for monks, they need to try their hardest to balance em, a monk secondary counts as half of a monk primary (fat chance that they'll actually play like one though, lacking in divine favor, almost useless), and if one team happens to have a monk while one doesn't, wait an extra round to send people in. Most people would rather wait to have a chance than run in to be killed, and a monk makes that chance very real.

No need to create balance, cause there is a way to easily destroy all of them, like backfire, scourge healing, and area of effect damage in general, but, there has to be balance with the teams. It would be like allowing guilds to bring in groups of 8 just because into Fort Koga...

It's annoying but I wouldn't go so far as to call it overpowered, and I only find the warrior monks annoying (anything else just dies too fast).

As for the warrior/monks they're severly lacking in mana. Need I say more?

I usually take out the non warrior primarys and they spend so much time trying to res that thats all they can do. Some people say focus the paladin but thats a bad idea unless you can take out his mana or you'll just be taking hits while he stands there healing.

I heard that life syphon was nerfed... hearing that chaps my arse something fierce and I don't wish it upon anyone else.

I find backfire then conjour phantasam works well, it kinda screw them over. But a good amoutn of backfire will mean they are left with rather weak melee or ranged combat, and any warrior with damage reduction can take them down.

It's all int eh skills Elementalist/Mesmer has good combination to take down most targets quickly. However the El/Me suffers if they are attacked by more than 3 monsters. so an El/Me works better with a couple of Tanks an a monk.

Also I have been told Necromancer/Monk is a very good combination.

It probably is annoying coming up against a strong Monk opposition, but the way to beat it is by planning out and strategizing what you will do to beat it. I have been on the opposite side of this conversation plenty of times before, but you should try to come up with contengency plans to beat any move the enemy throws at you. Practice makes perfect, so for everytime you fail, you are one option closer to finding a successful build that can take on all others. This is almost like a Magic the Gathering conversation I had a long time ago. Interesting.