Ok, Ok... I got duped on ebay. I admit it. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Hyshnari

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Redmond, WA

Vile of Faith [Nova]

Me/Mo

06 Dec 2005 at 16:59 - 1

Ok, so on June 2nd I got my GW account, compliments of ebay. All things went well until about a week ago, when I get an e-mail from PlayNC saying that the credit card used to purchase the cdkey (which I purchased from ebay) was issued a chargeback. Now me, being the lazy person that I am, have not deleted any of my e-mail since approximately 1998. lol.

So I have copies of the auction notifications, the guy's e-mails to me (including the one e-mail with the cdkey), my payment receipt through paypal, all of that...

Of course, PlayNC still says that my account will forever be closed. All I want is to keep my characters and maybe kick the guy's butt who cheated me on ebay. But PlayNC isn't very fast at responding, and all they say when they respond is "sorry, we can't change our decision, it's listed in the ToA". But I agreed to the ToA and haven't stepped over the line! It's that idiot jerk on ebay who decided to screw me over.

So anyway, I put in a complaint with paypal (but it gets automatically closed & denied since it's been six months since the payment was sent...). I was also told to file a complaint with the IFCC, which is partnered with the FBI, to get on this guy's case since I have copies of all communications and such. Unfortunately, I don't have this guy's address, and upon further digging I find out the guy used 2 different names, so it's unlikely they'll get anywhere unless they get that guy's CC info from PlayNC. Obviously, PlayNC is not giving his credit info to me.

Any other suggestions on what I should do? I bought my boyfriend a GW account, and my brother has a GW account. I like GW too much to cheat them, and seriously, I guess I was too gullible to believe that the ebay auctions were legit. I didn't have a credit card at the time (nor a car to get to the store), and ebay sellers took paypal, so..... yeah.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

06 Dec 2005 at 17:04 - 2

It's against the EULA to buy or sell an activated copy of the game, so I would guess you'll get nowhere with playNC.

As for his sale of the game, if they can find him they could punish him for it.

Hyshnari

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Redmond, WA

Vile of Faith [Nova]

Me/Mo

06 Dec 2005 at 17:07 - 3

The cdkey was not activated. He had purchased it on PlayNC.com and given it to me, brand new.

And then, 6 months later, he issued a chargeback.

Edit: Well, PlayNC has his CC number. And I have all copies of my e-bay auction. Even if I don't get anything out of it, I would love to see PlayNC pursue legal action and try to kick his butt. It's what he deserves. I offered them all the info I have, they don't seem to want it.

Human1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Salt Lake City

06 Dec 2005 at 17:11 - 4

I'm sorry you got the shaft. That was a dirty trick. I don't think you'll get anywhere since it's been six months since you bought the game from the bugger.
And other than closing his account, there is no way they can 'punish' whoever sold it to you. Nothing else you can do.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

06 Dec 2005 at 17:14 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyshnari

The cdkey was not activated. He had purchased it on PlayNC.com and given it to me, brand new.

And then, 6 months later, he issued a chargeback.

Edit: Well, PlayNC has his CC number. And I have all copies of my e-bay auction. Even if I don't get anything out of it, I would love to see PlayNC pursue legal action and try to kick his butt. It's what he deserves. I offered them all the info I have, they don't seem to want it.

here is why you will not get a cent back.

this is a quote.

Quote:

You may not (a) sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer the Software or the Service (or any part thereof), including without limitation access keys

note the transfer part.

buy it retail or it will be subject to closing if caught

edit

they will not spend thousands of dollars pursuing him.

if he has other accounts they may close them but that is about all

BeowulfKamdas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

none atm

W/E

06 Dec 2005 at 17:18 - 6

yep, take it as a lesson. There are a few cheap legal copies of GW floating around the internet. cheapest i've seen is 30 bucks

Hyshnari

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Redmond, WA

Vile of Faith [Nova]

Me/Mo

06 Dec 2005 at 17:19 - 7

Certainly people have bought GW as gifts for friends and such -- wouldn't that be considered against the EULA as well, if that were the case?

Anyway, I am not as interested in getting my money back. Measly $40. More interested in getting my CHARACTERS back. And kicking this guy's butt.

dargon

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

R/

06 Dec 2005 at 18:16 - 8

Hyshnari - yes and no. If they bought the code/game and then gave it to someone as a gift, then yes, the violated the agreement, however unless they then proceed to try and get something for nothing by doing a chargeback on their credit card, plaync won't know or care about it. They just want their money afetrall and if you happen to get caught in the middle, sucks to be you.

hidden_agenda

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

06 Dec 2005 at 18:23 - 9

just went by my local BestBuy last night -- yes, there are GW copies on sale for $29.99. also managed to get my Terminator2 dvd for $6.

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

06 Dec 2005 at 18:38 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeowulfKamdas

yep, take it as a lesson. There are a few cheap legal copies of GW floating around the internet. cheapest i've seen is 30 bucks

Play.com has been selling GW since the summer for £17.99, which is about $30.

To put it bluntly, although I feel very sorry for you, nari, this should serve as a warning not to use ebay when there are affordable and safer options available. I used ebay once to get something rare and that was it.

To be honest I don't like ebay as there is a risk every time you buy something. The rating system is NO protection. An old friend of mine bought a laptop from someone with a 99.6% (or something) rating - and he never got it (seller stopped e-mailing and closed his account).

Also don't rely on paypal or ebay to do anything - they couldn't give a damn, provided they get their money/slice of the pie.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

06 Dec 2005 at 18:39 - 11

If you bought it on ebay, why not try contacting them for the guy basically scamming you. thats against the ToA on ebay as well...... but otherwise sorry for your loss.

Athis Strider

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

California

R/Mo

06 Dec 2005 at 20:32 - 12

Seems like the right place to ask. So all the accounts I see all over the net for chars that have been power leveled are illegal?

Hey Nari sorry to hear that. I do quite a bit of shopping on line and have had very good success with it. What the guy did is illegal. However ppl that scam have easily figured out that all they have to do is change their identity, and scam all over again. Like you said its not the 40 bucks it the principle of the thing.

Athis

Vorlin

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

06 Dec 2005 at 21:46 - 13

Don't confuse a EULA with the law. A company can put anything they want in their EULA, they can claim your first-born child if they want. A EULA is a contract, and like any contract may or may not be upheld in court if it comes to that.

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

06 Dec 2005 at 21:49 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athis Strider

Seems like the right place to ask. So all the accounts I see all over the net for chars that have been power leveled are illegal?

YES. Those are totally illegal. Basically, you can't buy anything that has anything to do with Guild Wars from someone else over Ebay legally.

EagleEye33

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In a House...duh

Untouchable Heroes

R/E

06 Dec 2005 at 21:57 - 15

man that sucks, I never buy any games online.

Adria Soulseeker

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Washington St.

Final Fear (FeaR)

R/E

06 Dec 2005 at 23:18 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyshnari

Certainly people have bought GW as gifts for friends and such -- wouldn't that be considered against the EULA as well, if that were the case?

Anyway, I am not as interested in getting my money back. Measly $40. More interested in getting my CHARACTERS back. And kicking this guy's butt.

I believe you can go buy anothe copy of the game (best buy:: $29.99) and then update your CD key that is tied to your account. This will enable you to keep your characters AND have a valid copy of the game. The only loss is whatever you paid that JACKA$$ on ebay.

I got duped on Ebay once too BTW. I bought a paintball gun for $200 that I never received even though the guy had 99% positive feedback and had been doing business for over a year. Luckily, I used my credit card to make the purchase and they refunded my money and went after HIS pay pal account to recoup the charges. YAY for me! anyway, GL with that and hope to see you online with those awesome characters soon....

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

06 Dec 2005 at 23:52 - 17

A few Problems here:
1) You went to Ebay to get the game and Paid $40, when it is only a measly $10 more for a hard legal copy, and now, 2 months later, is even cheaper at $30.

2) That you think that PlayNC cares - They'll just continue to tell you to obey their EULA next time.

BTW, as to the debate over EULA's and their standing - They are not a legal document, but courts have given right to organizations to freely deny or set their own rules for using or being in, their organization and its resources. This stems from the Constitution and cluases therein.

This is why The Boy Scouts dont let gay people in, and courts have upheld this right, and why the KKK can continue to have anti-black rallies and such even in this new "noone can even seem racist" society. The Constitution and its interuptions in court is also why game companies can set their own rules as to what does, and doesn't get your account banned.

EDIT IN: problem 3) You thinking this guy was legit - when you plainly knew that he had Purchased the account new [that costs $50] and turned aroun to sell it on Ebay.....That should be a big red sign.....Noone buys something to turn it around for a $10 loss...

temp

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

my bedroom

Band Of Death UK

07 Dec 2005 at 00:05 - 18

that will teach you to buy games that require CD KEY registration from E Bay. Go down the shop next time to get one. Less hassle, and its 100% LEGAL

Fungus Amongus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] | [Rare] Alliance

07 Dec 2005 at 00:08 - 19

Sorry if this adds to your frustration, but it's an interesting read:

www.paypalsucks.com

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

07 Dec 2005 at 01:06 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adria Soulseeker

I believe you can go buy anothe copy of the game (best buy:: $29.99) and then update your CD key that is tied to your account. This will enable you to keep your characters AND have a valid copy of the game. The only loss is whatever you paid that JACKA$$ on ebay.

....

NO

that account has been LOCKED PERMANENTLY which means he/she cannot get INTO the account to change the/add the new key.

start over or get something else

chris_nin00

Dun dun dun

Join Date: Aug 2005

Reddit Guild

R/

07 Dec 2005 at 01:14 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

NO

You always

Loviatar

And that too bad buddy. There is really nothing you can do.

Moral of the day: Friends don't let friends Ebay!

eik

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

07 Dec 2005 at 01:23 - 22

people do this all the time on ebay. they most likely stole a credit card number and used it to purchase an account to resell on ebay. that's why most likely there was a reversal 6 months afterwards. only when a person launches a personal investigation to unknown charges on their visa do they show up that late. otherwise if he did it personally, there is less downtime. buying console games over ebay is fine, this problem arises mostly with pc games since they require keys that are not secure in any way.

lesson learned, don't do it again in the future. nothing you can really do about it now.

Sovetskeey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Edmonton, AB

Gotta Be Four Twenty Somewhere

07 Dec 2005 at 01:43 - 23

Ahhh the joys of eBay and exactly why I closed both my PayPal and eBay accounts. Personally I've never bought anything online. I've only donated money to my clan.
My buddy sold his paintball hopper on eBay and sent it. A couple weeks later he gets an e-mail from PayPal saying the guy filed a complaint that the product wasn't delivered (even though he tracked the package on FedEx's site) so they pulled the money from his PayPal account and gave it back to the guy.
This crap isn't as secure as you'd think and it should be a lesson learned for you. Both not to buy shit from online auctions and to read and obey EULAs and ToU agreements.

Ard Wen

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Haz Team

W/Mo

07 Dec 2005 at 01:59 - 24

I think its wrong that ebay allows these kind of sales. Its almost like they are doing sales like a blackmarket. You would think Ebay could be sued by Anet for the this

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

07 Dec 2005 at 02:18 - 25

Ebay cant be really sued for jack - You can read some small claims cases in Cali. about it - but PayPal (owned by Ebay btw) IS the Electric Funds Transfer choice...Its like suing Microsoft.

Tips (taken from various sites like the one already linked too):
1) Never do business with anyone more than once. This flags your account for watching.
2) Never do business with anyone with African or Asian type names (I AM NOT KIDDING AT ALL) - This too flags your account for limiting.
3) Never deal with more than $2,500 dollars a day passing through your account - This flags your account for watching.
4) Basically anything else that is risky.

PayPal blames YOU if anything EVER happens (like a buyer using stolen Credit Card), and Will Flag your account for freezing/limiting for almost ANYTHING.

They are ALWAYS looking for some excuse to Freeze or limit accounts and flee with your money. If you even BREATHE wrong in their eyes - they have right to take your money.

And this is all ok because of their ToS (like our EULA). Their Terms basically say....they can do anything they want with your money..and you cant do jack about it..and you have to agree to use their service.

So when your account is froze and they take your money for good, all they have to do is mark your account with "NO APPEALS" signature - and your screwed...

Courts are finually starting to rule against this though..

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

07 Dec 2005 at 02:20 - 26

I don't see how they could ban your account if the activation code wasn't activated. How does your activation code get banned if you're the only one who knows about it?

chippxero

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

norfolk

Super Anti Rabbit Squad [SARS]

Mo/Me

07 Dec 2005 at 02:28 - 27

Never ever buy a game second hand that needs a cd key to play online.

Simple as that.

EDIT: i don't think the OP got a physical copy just the cd key and downloaded the game content.

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

07 Dec 2005 at 02:47 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I don't see how they could ban your account if the activation code wasn't activated. How does your activation code get banned if you're the only one who knows about it?

The account's validness was never in question.

let me explain the terms that seem to be confusing you.

What happened is a chargeback - one of the most common scams, yet one that PayPal TOTALLY does wrong.

Chargeback means this line of events:
1) Ebay Guy (call him EB for short) buys Key with his Credit Card from Anet.
2) EB sells this to the OP on Ebay (this is why I assume PayPal).
3) OP activates account - everything is fine.
4) EB tells PayPal that he didnt autorize the purchase of the Key from Anet, this is called a Chargeback.
5) PayPal sucks, and just does the chargeback with no invesigating or anything, and EB's credit Card pays him his $50 back
6) Anet gets information that the Key was bought by unautorized persons, so Freezes the account and why wouldn't it? It just gave the account to someone unautorized (or so it thinks), so freezes the account and cuts its loses.

It has nothing to do with The OP buying the account on Ebay thus breaking EULA - It has to do with EB saying that it didn't autorize its purchase of the key so the key is froze.

PayPal's horrible handling of Chargeback fruad like this is why sites like paypalsucks exist...

Basically in the end EB gets his $50 back form the purchase, AND OP's $40, and OP is left with a Locked account.

Swehurn

1,787,569

Join Date: Jul 2005

BC, Canada

07 Dec 2005 at 03:43 - 29

Maybe I missed this point - was the chargeback issued because the game was bought on a stolen card and the legitimate owner of the card disputed the charge, or was the card actually owned by the person who sold you the game?

My guess is that it was a stolen card - the seller could get in quite a bit of trouble (fraud) if he used his own card to buy something, resold it, and then disputed the original charge...

If it's a stolen card, you're definitely outta luck.

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

07 Dec 2005 at 07:21 - 30

I honestly wouldn't know if you're SOL or not, but I wouldn't buy software on Ebay period. There are a plethora of places you can buy software and if there's a problem with the cd key you can return it.

coolsti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

07 Dec 2005 at 08:03 - 31

Can't live with it, can't live without it. The O.P.'s comment about the uncaring response of PayPal reminds me of a difficulty we had with this institution. My wife was doing a lot of shopping on Ebay using PayPal as means for payment, when suddenly her useage limit was reached, and she had to pay $5 or so to apply for an extention. Since we live in Denmark and our banks do things differently (our credit cards are bank debit cards), the "activation" number that PayPal insisted was on our credit card statement was never received on our side. Write to PayPal, telephone to PayPal. Did PayPal care? No. Did PayPal help us? No. Did we get anything for the $5we paid? No.

If I could, I would never use PayPal again. Institutions that become popular, and then become seemingly necessary, and then become inflexible and unapproachable should be closed down.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Dec 2005 at 08:59 - 32

That fact that paypal imposes moral codes on its transactions (You cant use paypal for anything adult content related) also is quite hypocritical considering how much they slice off for themselves.

edit: paypal's mature content acceptable usage policy: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...side&ed=mature

which is funny considering you need to be an adult to have a credit card or have a bank account to connect to paypal...and yet they wont let you buy p0rn with it....thats just...stupid.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

07 Dec 2005 at 10:34 - 33

Lesson of Note: Never buy anything off Ebay that requires a CD key to play anything multiplayer online. Even including games like Neverwinter Nights. Mainly because of what happened to you, the origional owner at anytime can cancel the account, change the password even and use it while you pay for it with your credit card until you stop payment on the card.

Mainly because you don't know if this person has used the CD key or not. If you buy a game strictly to play OFFLINE, then there is no problem, you will always get your offline play out of a game that requires a CD key.

Best thing to do if you want a game cheap is just wait for the bargain bin prices or use Gogamer.com for their 48 hours specials which are $5 to $10 off retail and they have a $1.99 shipping deal.

wolver1ne

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/N

07 Dec 2005 at 18:06 - 34

And what's wrong with buying directly from Anet (or PlayNC to be correct) or just a regular game shop? Nothing! So why bother with ebay or other so called cheap sources.

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

07 Dec 2005 at 18:45 - 35

A few notes:

-The EULA rule about Ebay is a new one. It did not exist 6 months ago. And you did not trade with Ebay after the rule was added. So that has nothing to do with being banned. It was the chargeback.
-6 Months is a VERY long time to ask for a chargeback. It certainly is worth some effort contacting police/CIA with your information and ask for investigation. But these cases don't have a high priority I'm afraid, unless its about much more money.
-You played for 6 months... Either you will love the game and have no problems buying a new copy at a shop (prices are lower now, and your total price of the 2 copies wont be much more than the price of the new game 6 months ago)... Or you hardly play anymore in which case I would say: leave it. 6 Months of fun for such a price is a bargain.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

07 Dec 2005 at 18:49 - 36

If Paypal limits your account, call them up over the phone. I did that and was restored instantly even though I had a no appeal thing.

Vorlin

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Dec 2005 at 23:48 - 37

Pandora, getting ripped off isn't a 'bargain'. With spin skills like that you should work for the Bush administration. *laugh*

But if you can't see it, try this on for size: ANet cancels -your- account an hour from now, and when you complain I tell you you got a bargain because of all the hours you'd played up till then. I'm guessing you won't feel all that good about it.

imaginary friend

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

marhans grottoooo

Empires of Underworld [EoU]

R/Me

08 Dec 2005 at 23:50 - 38

LOL... teaches those ebay pwn0rz right!
sorry it happened to you
but teaches you ebay pwn0rz right!

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

09 Dec 2005 at 00:12 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

But if you can't see it, try this on for size: ANet cancels -your- account an hour from now, and when you complain I tell you you got a bargain because of all the hours you'd played up till then. I'm guessing you won't feel all that good about it.

if he bought it legally instead of ebay he would have a valid complaint and they would restore the account.

considering they got a 6 month trial for their money they can now decide to buy it, wait for chapter 2 or get something else.

very cheap lesson to be more careful.

and if you dont think they got off easy you live a very sheltered life