A guide to pets, by Jenosavel and Epinephrine

Jenosavel

Jenosavel

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Jul 2005

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

The pets level up relatively quickly, especially if you equip a -hp item and either remove all your armor or equip a low-armor set filled with Sup Runes (as some farming builds use). It'll take several hours, but definitely not days.

Also, I've now tested at least two Black Moas and both turned out to be Elder. Since I'd previously guessed they would be unevolved (and thus elder), this just adds a little strength to that assumption. I'll keep an eye out for a Dire or Hearty Black Moa, but I'm not expecting to find one.

Boomer the Gnome

Boomer the Gnome

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

I can note that Warthogs naturally move 10-25% faster inherently.
Mine is kiting me on a string.. it catches up and drifts back.

BerryRacer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

First off i would just like to say!! Amazing job i can only guess at how long it must of taken you both to collect up this great stuff!! Thank you for spending your time helping me and so many others in this way!

Secondly though it is probably not worth mentioning, pets can complete bonuses, and i assume missions after a party wipe out. Heres my story> Me and some friends were doing the bonus for the mission in the jungle (forget what its called, i think wilds, anyway though its the cystal running one).

The bonus is you have to kill that white mantle leader guy at the back. So we tried to charge through the big hoard of mantle waiting to run cystals, i came in and some how managed to get past them all and loose aggro. At this stage everyone else had died. However in loosing aggro as i previously said, i got into the bonus bosses range.

Anyway i got killed and the message "Return to outpost showed up". However though just before i had died i must of had call of protection running (as i always run with 16 beast when i use pet) So anyway my bear and this Mantle boss guy fight it out and my bear wins, and ofcourse, even though we are all dead the sword cross thing appears and we get the bonus

Anyway just thought i would add that. Really look forward to when (if you should have the spare time, ofcourse) you guys are able to test the new pets!
If you should need any help(should you get to testing), my friends and i would love to help, as we have all manner of pets

Jenosavel

Jenosavel

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Jul 2005

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer the Gnome
I can note that Warthogs naturally move 10-25% faster inherently.
Mine is kiting me on a string.. it catches up and drifts back.
All pets inherantly move 25% faster than players. 'Twas in the update notes ages ago.

@BerryRacer thanks! That's an interesting tidbit I would never have guessed.

Dscrilla

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/N

WOW, Epinephrine that was incredibly thurough and well written. Thanks for the info! Agian this shows the community at Guildwarsguru has the edge.

Narcism

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ottawa, ON, Canada

Mostly Harmless

W/

If my pet hits level 15 and becomes a Dire Pet, can the leveling from there happen in any area, or do I have to keep with the do-more-damage-then-me mentality?

Lews

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Seattle, Washington

R/E

I think it's still the do more damage then me, Narc, but you'll have to get someone who knows better to find out for sure

Narcism

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ottawa, ON, Canada

Mostly Harmless

W/

Because I really don't want to make it to Dire pet, then go to tombs to finish leveling it up, and it goes to Elder :/

Jenosavel

Jenosavel

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Jul 2005

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

Once it evolves at 15, it will remain that evolution forever. You don't have to worry about what happens beyond that point affecting your evolution. I usually switch to a Hearty-esque speed oriented build once my pets hit lvl 15 Dire, since what you do with it wont change the evolution beyond that point.

Dyon Adell

Dyon Adell

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Tyria

Gamer Edge(TRE)

R/Me

Amazing guide. The amount of information and knowledge, it's truly respectable!

Seaman_yemen

Seaman_yemen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Down the street from ure mom

RoFs

W/

a pure work of art

Fender

Fender

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ohio

XoO

Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched the thread and didn't find a quick answer.

About pet criticals. Maybe pet criticals work differently than player criticals. Player criticals are weapon max * 1.41. What if pet criticals are simply the normal random damge * 1.41? From looking at the dire graph, this seams reasonable. The % chance of a hit above 32 is about the same. It looks to me like the normal range for a dire pet is something like 20 - 32, with criticals then ranging from 28 - 42. The overlap accounts for the spike between 28 and 32, then the sharp drop after that.

edit: Also, did pets get another boost or some other change? A guildmate is reporting occasional pet hits of 57 with an elder spider, but not with an elder wolf. The wolf's high range is still in the 40s. I haven't verified this myself.

Epinephrine

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

@Fender

That indeed is the assumption, that the criticals don't function properly (I'll tell you that the same holds true for minions, I submitted data on minions to guildwiki a while back and the distributions are the same as for pets, with the same shape where the critical range/regular range overlap, increasing in the size of the effect as BM/minion level goes up, ppresumably due to increased critical hit chances) or at least function differently.

As to solving it, I am in the process of doing it, based on PanSola's suggestion on page 2 or so of this thread; Factions fever has finally calmed enough that I can scrimmage and determine the true damage ranges of pets, and from that can establish the critical hit rtes and precise evolution bonuses, as well as the effect of BM on evolution bounses and so on. Granted, most of it could be done operating on the hypothesis that the distribution represents a summation of critical and non-critical hits, and by looking at the prevalence of higher critical range attacks and the portion of hits that would make up those hits one could come up with a critical hit rate by BM investment, then work backward to find bonuses - but it would be quite theoretical and prone to errors. PanSola's method of using Balanced Stance is the logical way to do this, and hopefully I'll have the data up this week, solving the question of evolution effect and critical rates most likely.

As for isolated high damage hits from a Spider, that's new to me. If it is consistent it is something to investigate, but I doubt that they've made a sudden balance change. More likely the foes varied? Spiders do piercing damage, wolves do slashing damage and some foes have different AL versus these. At some point one of us will likely re-test the various animals to ensure that the damages haven't changed. I know she's working on the new pets currently, and I've begun doing some training of Factions pets as well to gather data (gogo Dire Crane!)

EDIT: You'll note that the max damage for a BM 12 Elder wolf would be 41 versus AL60, while the spider has done a reported 57; this is a ration of roughly 1.4:1, which is equivalent (within rounding error) to a 20AL difference - precisely the difference used on skeletons for example, to make them vulnerable to blunt and resistant to piercing, and the same as the Weaken Armor and other skills. 20AL seems a pretty standard amount to create a vulnerability, so I would assume that such is the issue.

T1Cybernetic

T1Cybernetic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Uk, Nr Earth

Alternate Evil Gamers [aeg]

N/

Just curious but,

Has anyone reported a dire pet in pre-searing? i've been thinking
of trying it just for the hell of it, when i have time of course, ...

Epinephrine

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Yes, it was trivially easy to do before a recent update, so there are many high level Dire pets in pre - I had a level 20 Dire wolf for my level 16 ranger. However, with the change to levelling (untamed animals no longer gain levels when killing a player) it is much harder to do, and I doubt that many (if any)have been raised since then - particularly as you need to keep damage to the pet at a minimum but have none of the skills that are typically used to do so. Good luck if you try it; the pet will need to be killing things that are at least level 9 to get to level 15, which means taking on the Charr bosses without much damage to the pet - a herculean task.

samurai snack

samurai snack

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

British Columbia, Canada

Dawn of the Luxons [Dawn]

W/

Love the guide and glad i learned that bears suck (i can rub it in player's faces when they brag about their "rare and strong bear"). this guide has inspired me to become a beastmaster but i really think ANet should make it easier to make a pet become dire, because according to posts from many players, they TRY and to no avail, the dreaded...Playful DUM DUM DUMMM. i want my pet to deal reasonable damage but not die at the first sign of a fully beefed up obsidian flame spike...i want to make it elder but theres that off-chance that it will not take on a second evolution...maybe ill try my best to be a beastmaster and keep my pet alive as well as keeping the petlayer damage ratio more in the pet's favor and if it becomes aggresive, turn it into a meat bag lol, but if it comes out playful(high chance) then i will try tanking instead of the pet...

Wish me luck...

Deaths Embrace

Deaths Embrace

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

California

Oblivion's Fury

W/Mo

yes very awsome guide, but still as always I seem to be the only one that goes for hearty over anything else.I wish that anet would add some way to stable your pet so you could have more then one lol

kilo1501

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

Dragon Banes Imortal

R/Mo

Where do you think would be the best place to level up a dire pet in factions?
I only have factions so I dont have call of protection or symbiotic bond, Are there any other skills that would help guide my pet to dire?

ChaoticCoyote

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaths Embrace
yes very awsome guide, but still as always I seem to be the only one that goes for hearty over anything else.I wish that anet would add some way to stable your pet so you could have more then one lol
I went for hearty with my Dune Lizard, Fluffy. I use him as a meat shield and distraction; with Call of Protection, he can withstand just about anything in the game one-on-one, and he usually survives longer than my Ranger. He doesn't do a lot of damage, but while they bad guys are hitting him, they're ignoring me.

Story: I was in a Rotscale PUG last week, and we got our fannies handed to us by the old monster. Operating on 60% DP, none of us could do anything -- but Fluffy, with 500+ hit points and no DP, just kept on going. When we had it down to just Rotscale, the monks kept healing me and Fluffy, while I maintained Call of Protection and added a little damaged here and there. Yes, my Hearty Dune lizard took down Rotscale, in just over an hour.

The guys in the group gave me the Rotwing bow.

I'm amazed people hung around for the whole show! Best darned fun I've had in months in this game, and that's saying a lot.

So Hearty isn't necessarily bad.

Epinephrine

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

A very topical question - Jenosavel had just written me this morning about a similar subject.

I haven't scouted Cantha for a spot to do this, but some have been posted by others - typically you want melee opponents, of a reasonable level for your pet. Yetis were one such sugestion. Avoid any enemies that cause conditions or use damaging hexes/spells - they're not easy to protect against.

What's your secondary? I'm assuming ranger primary, though I've trained for non ranger primaries too.

It may be worth using a specific secondary in order to do it, one with which you can substantially limit damage to your pet. Monk would come to mind in fact as the best option, with Ritualist a possible choice as well. Given that you can choose a new secondary quite early in game this is doable. The Monk elite Life Sheath actually prevents damage to the target, which is handy Other monk spells can prolong this effect, as can raising the pet's armour value (which obviously reduces damage to the pet). Life Bond in combination with Life Sheath doubles the duration of the Life Sheath. Nothing else can really prevent all damage.

The other thing to remember is that good positioning can make a huge difference, and to get as much attacking on yourself as ppossible. As a warrior secondary you could for example invest in tactics and employ Protector's Stance and recharge it via "On Your Knees!" for example - this would require attacking to build adrenaline, but with no points in a hammer and with flurry for example you'd be unlikely to actually cause much damage - Counter Blow would be enough for a knockdown.

It's an interesting question, as even Otyugh's Cry (used for a 20 AL boost) is a prophecies-only skill. I suspect that Monk secondary will be the best solution, and that Life Sheath is the best way to ensure no damage gets through, combined with ways to stretch that protection (miss rates/blocking and Life Bond).

I'll also mention to Jeno that we need to come up with ways for non ranger-primaries to train Dire pets with Factions-only skills.

kilo1501

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

Dragon Banes Imortal

R/Mo

Does having henchmen on the team affect the amount of exp coming in to your pet?


my secondary is a monk and Great guide btw

Valerius

Valerius

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canada

R/

i was wonderin' what type of dmg the Faction pets do... primarily the Phoenix

i'm sorry if i missed the section in the guide... but i just couldn't find the info

Epinephrine

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Sorry Valerius, we haven't gotten to testing that yet. I'm not even done the game :P I have 5 characters all to about Unwaking Waters now...

volsungxiii

volsungxiii

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Chicago

W/

Thanks! I always appreciate the time it takes to create guides, especially one of this size. You've answered all my questions about pets, and believe me I had many .

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Somehow I have missed this guide up until now, but I must say that this is likely the best community given guide I have ever seen. While I thought beast mastery had been covered pretty well from guides like the one on the main GWGuru page, this truly exceeds it. I commend both of you on your hard work.

kilo1501

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

Dragon Banes Imortal

R/Mo

I think I found a good place to train your pet for cantha born characters.
The minister cho's estate mission mostly has foes that only do close up damage and are mainly lvl 8 which is good for newly captured pets. Though there are some elementalist and some ritualist (5 or 6 out of them all) most of them are warriors but over all It is easy to keep the damage off of your pet in this place.

EDIT: ok I caught a phoenix and leveled it to level 11 and the name didnt change and i thought that it was unevolved(which is good) and then finally i got it to lv 14 and it became playful.... That made me really mad. What is up with that!?

Juicey Shake

Juicey Shake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

CA

in it for the trimmmm

R/

I used to level pets to 11 off of minotaur and then EoE bomb grawl until it became 20.. at 15 it always became dire..

this worked with a phoenix, too.. now I tried 4 times with a white tiger, every time it became aggressive at 11 and then elder at 15 :\.. finally just went and capped a lvl 15 dire [orange] tiger, but I wanted a white tiger , anyone else know how eoe bombing effects pet levelling?

my friend and I sync levelled pets together a long time ago [lynxs], his was playful, mine aggressive.. he'd aggro up a ton of grawl, I'd lay down an EoE, he'd echo cyclone axe and spam until they died and poof, EoE bomb.. mine became dire, his hearty...

does the whirling defense damage not register as me dealing damage?.. if so, why did it not act like that 3, 5 months ago?

Seiten Taisei

Seiten Taisei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Netherlands

Faction of Twilight [ FoW]

Rt/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkusmax
Heres My Pet Pheonix Krijgsleider, probably not the best light to show off his plumage though.

It reminds me of a peacock

Seiten Taisei

Seiten Taisei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Netherlands

Faction of Twilight [ FoW]

Rt/R

Following the Guide and mixing both Tyria and Cantha skills i managed to make my get my White Tiger to evolve to Aggressive to Dire .

Congrats on making such a awesome guide.

evox the evil

evox the evil

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Where ever the hell i feel like living

Iim always in a new one so i just wont say

W/

that guide was very well put together. two thumbs up! now that i know where to gert a 20 crab, im off to get a lvl 20 pet without the work

narud

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

under the spider part you said they are rewards from certain quests. could someone tell me what quests these are.

Reginald Price

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Survival of Honor

E/

I really had to laugh... I have used your guide and made several Pets for my R/m, R/m, and one Ele/R. All of which turned out Dire, so i changed one of my other Ele/m into a Ele/r, and decided to get a dire pet for this one too. I did all the above things that made my pet dire for the other characters, got to 11 and he went to aggressive, and then when he got to 15 he went to elder. I just sat there and laughed, because before, I read thru the reports of the others who had done the same thing and thought how could they not get a dire pet, if they just followed the directions. Well, how funny, it doesn't always work, but hey what the heck, it is still the best guide i have read in a long time, and it has worked all but this one time for me, so if you follow the directions and something like this happens, just remember that it does, so just start over and make another. This has still been the best way now that you can get a dire pet. And mine kick butt. Love the dire pets, and how well they do damage. Especially in combo with your skills....

Thanks you guys for a well written guide..

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

Jeno/Epin, is there a Marksman Guide like this floating around somewhere?

RuPee

RuPee

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Los Angeles, CA

[RoD]

Mo/

very nice guide! the excel graphs were awesome. i would have never thought of looking for the standard deviation of pet attacks lol.

after my pet reached aggressive at level 11 with the ice tooth minotaurs . i continued to level up at elona reach minotaurs until it reached dire at level 15 for even faster levelling.

Shai Lee

Shai Lee

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Somewhere

Thank you so much for making this guide and for all the time you've spent in researching pets.

I made a new ranger the other day, and decided that I wanted a dire pet, as opposed to the usual hearty that I end up with. I used the R/Me build that was posted, and leveled my pet up in Ice Tooth and then for a bit in Elona.

Ice Tooth (lvl 11 Agressive) Elona (lvl 15 Dire)

I want to be able to raise dire pets for my ranger secondaries as well, and wondered if those builds could be posted, if possible?

Thank you so much.

~

huffpl

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2006

Reign Of Tortured Souls'

W/

Very Good Guide so Kudos to Janosanel and Epinephrine.

That being said, I dont know if anyone else has mentioned because i didnt read all the post. And I offer my Ingame name (Valas Greywolf) to come and see what im talking about if either of you two would like to see.

I have an unevolved lvl 11 bear ( i know the worst pet to have but i like him). He has a skill called Brutal Mauling that goes off every 4 - 6 secs. Again i offer my name so u can come see for yourself. I appologize if this has already been brought up but i figured for educational purposes you would like to investigate this phenomenon.

PM me any time.

Makkert

Makkert

Black Beast of Aarrrrgghh

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB] // Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by huffpl
Very Good Guide so Kudos to Janosanel and Epinephrine.

That being said, I dont know if anyone else has mentioned because i didnt read all the post. And I offer my Ingame name (Valas Greywolf) to come and see what im talking about if either of you two would like to see.

I have an unevolved lvl 11 bear ( i know the worst pet to have but i like him). He has a skill called Brutal Mauling that goes off every 4 - 6 secs. Again i offer my name so u can come see for yourself. I appologize if this has already been brought up but i figured for educational purposes you would like to investigate this phenomenon.

PM me any time.
the Brutal Mauling doesn't do anything as a skill. it was brought up several times before. I seem to recall people mentioning it used to do something, but the effect was removed later by devs.

leeky baby

leeky baby

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Surrey University

Starting to play again... need a guild

W/E

thnaxs guys ino which pet im gunna get now

Ugly_Jim

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

To anyone wanting a dire pet quickly, try the pongmei valley trick. I got a level 15 dire tiger in only seven runs from boreas seabed.

Epinephrine

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Lee
I want to be able to raise dire pets for my ranger secondaries as well, and wondered if those builds could be posted, if possible?

Thank you so much.

~
Well, the essence is the same; protect pet and allow it to deal damage.

For a monk/ranger it's trivially easy, as you have all the tools to survive built in - as a bonus, symbiotic bond triggers Balthazar's Spirit, as does Life Bond, so you can be cutting damage to the pet by 25%, Call of Protection absorbs the rest, and you gain 2 energy per attack on the pet.

For a mesmer/ranger I used Distortion with Spirit of Failure; this allowed me to tank the minos pretty well while maintaining evasion, and kept my energy up for Ether Feast and so on. Same idea for pet skills, took a while.

For an elementalist you have great armour spells available, so you can get by with those pretty much, and even a small amount of wilderness survival gets enough Troll Unguent to keep your health up.

For a necromancer I'm not sure what the best tactic would be; probably involving Enfeebling Blood and Shadow of Fear, as they reduce incoming damage so much; for a self heal I don't know what the best skill is; maybe even predatory bond with parasitic bonds?

A warrior/ranger has an easy time with tacics providing stances and a self heal, and thick armoor making tankin for your pet a simple matter.

Haven't experimented with assassin/ritualist pet raising at all really. I assume that a ritualist could in fact provide an amazing amount of protection to the pet in the form of spammed Union for example; Another option is to keep all the enemy blinded with skills like Weapon of shadow or Rupture Soul; the protection of Union should add to the Call of Protection, and potentially could absorb pretty much all the damage directed at the pet (with symbitotic bond?). The theory is the same in all cases though; let the pet deal damage, take damage yourself - keeping the pet clear of damage is important.