Now I know that many players probably already understand this, but there are alot that do not. Let me explain by first showing you this item.
Now before you say oh this item is crap, 'cause the req. contradicts the Death bonus, let me explain. The req., get this, only applies to the stat line that it is placed next to. In this case the damage, just as the 8% chance only applies to the skill recharge. All this means is that if a Death Necro were to use this item (s)he would get every bonus on here at full strength. The only thing (s)he could not do was attack for max damage because (s)he doesn't meet the req. for that stat line.
Another example:
In this one if an Earth elementalist wanted to use the item without putting points into fire, (s)he would still get the full 16% chance. (S)He would also get the full 38 health when hexed. However, they would not get the full energy bonus, only part of it. This is because the req. only effects the stat line it is placed next to not the whole item. EDIT: No matter how close you are to the req. you still will only get a small portion of the full amount. (Thanks Savio for correcting me)
In all honesty, how many Necros/Mesmers/Elementalists/Monks are really going to try and kill level 24's just by shooting them with your staff? That is why reqs. on staves aren't that important because staves aren't meant for damage just bonuses.
EDIT: This is why trappers can use staffs for the extra 10 energy, and other mod bonuses dispite not having met the requirement.
What a req really does.
Phaern Majes
Dogman
For the focus item, any respectable Ele would just use a Earth scroll instead. We all know you don't need illusion to get the death magic bonus, or the other bonuses, but the item is very specialized. Only Me/N's focusing in Illusion and Death magic can use the staff to it's full effectiveness. The point isn't the requirements, the point is the item is gimped to everyone but a Me/N.
Granted yes, casters won't wand a enemy to kill it, but they NEED the full energy bonus, which they do not get if they do not have the requirements.
Granted yes, casters won't wand a enemy to kill it, but they NEED the full energy bonus, which they do not get if they do not have the requirements.
Maxiemonster
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Originally Posted by Dogman
We all know you don't need illusion to get the death magic bonus, or the other bonuses, but the item is very specialized.
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Savio
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Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
The closer you are to that req. the more of that bonus/damage you will get/do.
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Rico Carridan
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Originally Posted by Savio
Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, it goes all the way down to starter weapon/focus stats. For that focus, even if you were at 10 Fire Magic, you'd still only get +3 energy instead of the full +12. For weapons, I don't remember the exact starter item stats but they suck.
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Rico
Markaedw
The enrgy benifit depends entirely on where the skill requirement is.
The staff has the skill req. on the damage, therefore the energy is bonus willl be benifitted regartgless of skill
The focus item skill req. is on the energy benifit, so you will only receive the benifit as you add to your skills, you will get some of the benifits and as you add to your fire skill level you will get more, untill you reach the max.
The staff has the skill req. on the damage, therefore the energy is bonus willl be benifitted regartgless of skill
The focus item skill req. is on the energy benifit, so you will only receive the benifit as you add to your skills, you will get some of the benifits and as you add to your fire skill level you will get more, untill you reach the max.
Caros
Exactly, this is why trappers use staves.
Phaern Majes
aight thanks I'll fix that one part, but as I said I know some players know this. But the majority of them don't. I was under the impression that the closer to the req you were the better but I haven't tested it so I'll believe ya on that, and add it.
Dogman you're missing my point . Any Necro primary could use that staff and get all the benefits. They could be a N/R, N/Mo, N/W, N/whatever. You do not have to have an ounce of mesmer into yor character to use that staff and use it effectively. You however will not do much damage if you attack with it. So, no, the item is not gimped to everyone but a Me/N. It is perfectably usable by all Necro's. That was the point I'm trying to get acrossed the req has nothing to do with anything but the amount of damage.
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Originally Posted by Dogman
Only Me/N's focusing in Illusion and Death magic can use the staff to it's full effectiveness. The point isn't the requirements, the point is the item is gimped to everyone but a Me/N.
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Rico Carridan
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Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
Dogman you're missing my point . Any Necro primary could use that staff and get all the benefits. They could be a N/R, N/Mo, N/W, N/whatever. You do not have to have an ounce of mesmer into yor character to use that staff and use it effectively. You however will not do much damage if you attack with it. So, no, the item is not gimped to everyone but a Me/N. It is perfectably usable by all Necro's. That was the point I'm trying to get acrossed the req has nothing to do with anything but the amount of damage.
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Rico
Phaern Majes
I know I'm not trying to say that but the fact remains the item isn't "gimped to everyone but a Me/N". And while some players do like to attack also most of them would take a 10-20 staff just as happily if it had good mods. Most players generally don't care about damage when it comes to staffs, or so has been my experience. Again this isn't meant to do anything but explain what req. does, because alot of people throw away good items because they think the req. "gimps" the items.
Also I will point out this is mostly unique to staffs, because as stated an Earth ele is most likely just going to get a scroll. And no Warrior is going to use a shield (s)he doesn't have the req for, because the defense in that case is important. Again just explaining that it isn't always necessary, not trying to condemn anyone for wanting to meet the req.
Also I will point out this is mostly unique to staffs, because as stated an Earth ele is most likely just going to get a scroll. And no Warrior is going to use a shield (s)he doesn't have the req for, because the defense in that case is important. Again just explaining that it isn't always necessary, not trying to condemn anyone for wanting to meet the req.
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by Savio
Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, it goes all the way down to starter weapon/focus stats.
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unienaule
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, you will get 50% of the specified damage/energy bonus.
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Shimus DarkRaven
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, you will get 50% of the specified damage/energy bonus.
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But the same arguement can be said like this: If it works the way you state it, I could have only "1 req" of the "8 req" requirement, and still get 50% bonus? Nope. Next to nothing. I put 1 req in for my axe at req 8, and it does 3-5 damage each hit, hence starter weapon stats. So on this I believe you are both half right.
--The Shim
unienaule
It's starter weapon stats. And as for weapons, the description for those skills says it increases damage dealt per skill point. So you get that bonus, but it still acts as a starter weapon.
EDIT: Just tested it myself on my mesmer. At 8 illusion, i get +3 energy, and 9 illusion, +12 from Rockmolder.
EDIT: Just tested it myself on my mesmer. At 8 illusion, i get +3 energy, and 9 illusion, +12 from Rockmolder.
Arturo02
I have a jeweled chalice that is +12 energy, and then +9 with a 6 requirement in inspiration. At six inspiration I get +21 energy. At 0-5 I get +18energy.
it seems the energy thing is all over the place.
it seems the energy thing is all over the place.
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by unienaule
Definitely wrong. You need to learn to research before you say stuff. I just equipped a Rockmolder on my R/W. +3 energy ftl. Half of 12 is 6, so you're wrong.
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[smartass mode]
But Savio was wrong as well! I've got a necro focus idol with energy +10. If I don't meet the requirement, energy drops to +5, which is definetly more than the starter focus item stats. Starter value would be +3.
[/smartass mode]
Savio
I'm pretty sure my +12 focii drop to +3, but I'm still deprived of a computer that can run GW right now. Hopefully later today I can get it fixed and this whole mess cleared up.
Tetris L
This is what the "Damage Explained" article on GWonline.net says about it on page 3:
The last sentence kinda ruins the whole thing, but hey, at least he found the same discrepancy about energy being +3 in some cases and +5 in other.
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All items actually have 2 values for their attribute driven modifiers (weapons, staves and rods are damage, focus items are energy). There is the listed value, which only comes into effect if you meet the item’s attribute requirement. There is also a hidden value of which you cannot see. This only comes into effect when you do not meet the requirement. If an item does not have an attribute requirement, then both the listed and hidden values are identical. In general, if you do not meet the attribute requirement of an item ... - Weapon damage is equivalent to a level 5 weapon of the same type. - Shield armor is reduced by approximately 25%. - Focus items will either be +3 or +5 energy. The hidden value is always lower than the listed value, and is equivalent to a level 5 weapon. Not all weapons are identical in this respect however, they can have different hidden damage ranges. However items will sometimes spawn that do not agree to the above guidelines. |
Pharalon
It's been ages since I tested any of this stuff, but many items have hidden inherent modifiers, including focii. This means that you can get a focus with +10 en, which is actually a base of +8 with a internal modifier of +2. If you don't meet the reqs, the item will drop to starter stats, but will maintain any inherent bonuses it has. In the above case, it would drop from a +10 focus to a +5. I'm sure if you only test white/blue focii, you'll always drop to +3, but on purples/golds it can be something different (though very rarely). The same can be applied to weapons/shields as well.
Edit: lo and behold, as with everything gw related, the answer can be found in one of Ensign's articles. People need to be forced to read every one of those before they are allowed to post in here..
Edit: lo and behold, as with everything gw related, the answer can be found in one of Ensign's articles. People need to be forced to read every one of those before they are allowed to post in here..
Ensign
Collector / Green / Quest Reward / PvP items always drop to the minimum possible value when you don't meet the requirement.
For 'normal' items, the behavior is a bit weird - it's usually half the listed value if you don't meet the req, but I've heard about enough exceptions that I wouldn't take this as a hard rule. I've made some conjectures about internal item level coding before, but right now all I can say is that I really don't know how it works.
Peace,
-CxE
For 'normal' items, the behavior is a bit weird - it's usually half the listed value if you don't meet the req, but I've heard about enough exceptions that I wouldn't take this as a hard rule. I've made some conjectures about internal item level coding before, but right now all I can say is that I really don't know how it works.
Peace,
-CxE
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by Pharalon
Edit: lo and behold, as with everything gw related, the answer can be found in one of Ensign's articles. People need to be forced to read every one of those before they are allowed to post in here..
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[edit]Sneaky Ensign slipped in his explanation above while I typed this post.[/edit]
Pharalon
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
Unfortunatly, in this very case, Ensign's article is incorrect/unclear. It says that energy bonus drops to +3 if you don't meet the attribute requirement. But as several people in this thread have checked, there are items that drop to +5, not +3, or maybe even other values.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ensign
However, if you get a +12 focus - a +10 focus with an internal +2 modifier - you'll get 5 energy from equipping it, even if you don't meet the requirement.
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Savio
Wow... I actually missed something in that article. But then again I don't really have a reason to go below requirements anymore. Is there a list of internal mods, complete or otherwise?
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by Savio
Is there a list of internal mods, complete or otherwise?
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opaltiger
by comparing items, I guess, and seeing if there are differences; I mean, you can get a 6-28 axe and that's max. However, you can also get 7-27 and then, obviously, there's an internal mod.