New Players are not welcome to GW in PVE or PVP

I've had this game since release day and I still like this game a lot. However I just notice that the new players zones like Pre Searing and Ascalon City with a noticeable decreasing number of districts

PVE folks
New players are discourage to play cuz golds are harder to earn now
Require more skills to play the game which is only good for us vet
New skill cost like 1000 golds


PVP folks
Most groups require a player to show his or her rannk before the invitation to the team.
Rank 3 is minimum requirement but they prefer rank 6 and above

Due to this GW populations will not increase and Anet will have less support ..and you know what I meant


For the sake of GW future, vets please help new players if you can
Hopefully Anet will do it part for the next upgrade (chapter two)

1. Absolutely incorrect. If anything, the introduction of the greens made excellent gold weapons EXTREMELY affordable to new players. For instance, it is very easy to get a max damage axe with a low requirement and a 13>50 damage mod for a little over 1K. Before, those weapons would command 15K or higher. Most characters fresh out of presearing can afford that, especially if they've found a few dyes.

2. No, the skill level is exactly the same...if not easier, given the improvements to henchmen AI.

3. Only if you BUY all your skills. New players are supposed to do as many quests as possible, which gives you almost all the skills you need for free.

Overall, I think the only bad thing about new players getting into PvE is the lack of groups available, due to the diminishing numbers of new players. But henchmen do just fine in their stead.

Skills still cost WAY too much. Bad enough that you need the skill points( which I have run completely out of) but you also need money. Yes, you can get many skills free, but there are MANY more that you can't. The cost of skills is absurd, particularly if you have player a character through and decide you want a new secondary. It just gets stupid - there are only a small number of free skills for your new secondary, so even picking up 10-15 skills is a bucket of cash to a casula player - I'm not rich, I don't farm, so my balance is not enough to afford getting a new secondary for all my toons. I can't afford 15k armour (well, I could, but I'd be strapped after) and I don't do running - I enjoy playing the game - some PvP, some PvE, trying new things - and the price is too high for someone like me to comfortably change secondaries and explore a new type of play.

I'm fine with not buying 15k armour, not having fissure - I don't really need those, they're for guys who care to farm and make money - I like playing, not grinding. I do want to try the skills out though, and I think that ANet needs to make it more accessible for a PvE character to take on new secondaries. If they don't want you getting cheap+easy PvP unlocks, have a dual cost system - a skill is expensive at a trainer if you need the unlock (1k)- if the skill is unlocked on your account is it a nominal fee (50-100 gold?)

Nope. The cost of skills is an issue for people changing secondary, not for people playing the game through for the first time. And even for the people changing secondary skill-points are in shorter supply than gold.
Nope.
Also, I've just played another char through the low-level areas, and they're not empty (or unfriendly to newbies).

yeah, skills start out at like 100g, not 1k. They just cost more each time you buy one to encourage people to go out and quest for skills instead of just dropping a coin for it.

What crack are you smoking? Henchmen AI lose at life. While the enemy AI runs away from aoe stuff, the henches like to stand in it and soak up as much damage as possible. They still love to stand in Maelstrom's and apparently can't get enough of the Hydra Meteorshower's.

Anet failed when they gave the enemy AI the ability to run and not the henches.
James-

If you're just interested in unlocking skills, you're better off just running another character through the story. Look at it this way, if you make 3 toons, a W/R, Me/N, and E/Mo (for example), you will get about 75% of all non-elite skills for free, or if not free, at least much cheaper than 1k per skill, and you don't have to worry about skill points. Much more efficient than farming, IMHO. If you're changing secondary, honestly, you don't need every skill unlocked, you'll probably just need like 5 skills and 3 elites from your new secondary if you know what type of build you want.

Rico

I dont know what the first guy is on about with Pvp. I have got rank 0 and have not lost a pvp 4x4 game to date. ( i have 20000 faction) Newbies should always be welcome as all players have to start as them!!!

Ok ill respond to this in chunks:

on the contrary. having to rebuild my monk (sigh) ive noticed a lot of people online and the number od districts rising. there were 22 districts in ascalon city last night. i havent remembered them that high for almost 5 months.

Gold is easy to learn if you know how to earn it, which is the key. selling materials to traders and such can yeild u more cash than just selling everything to the merchant. dyes can be found cheaply and everyone wants dyes. skills only cost 1k after you purchase 15 skills. before that they will slowly rise in price, but they used to not cap. i remember needing a couple skilsl for a pvp build and spending almost 2k each... also you dotn have to buy skilsl for your secondary. you knwo that there are people throughout the game that after u change your secondary, lets say to necro, like Keira Blackwood in Sardilac Sanitarium that will give u quests to earn skills. the onyl thing u need to buy is one or two occasional skills and cap sigs, that should be all.

you can still get into many pugs under rank 3. granted your not gonan go in and hold halls for an hour, but many pugs do have some success. how do you think people got to r3 and up to begin with? yeah many people do want r6+ groups because all of your good pvp players and holders are like r9+ now and r3 i usually iway'd there and has no clue when it comes to different builds because they have never played them.

On the contrary. anets's numbers are increasing although a lot of the "veteran" players of gw are leaving due to no replayability and they are bored with non stop pvp. There are some veteran groups out there that will take new pvp players and teach them, my guild has done so on quite a few occasions. and i know that i was new to gw pvp when they helped me. many other very high ranked and well known players do this. Many people think that pvp is a joke and basicalyl if you do want to pvp the only option u have until youre r3+ is iway and thats bs, it shouldnt be that way. go find a few friends that want to pvp with you. find a build. have everyone go into team arenas and learn to play that character. learn its stregnths and weaknesses and how ti compliments others. then when u feel you are ready, try out tombs. Every top build is always being modified and every top team is constantly refining their skills and builds, even running new ones as to further learn and throw off people that got used to them runnign a certian build.

trust me getting into pvp and even more so in pve is alot more simple than you are making it out to be, stop whining about it and find a solution to it that benefits others also, like the ones that i have listed.

Happy gaming

In my experience that is one of the biggest errors Anet has made. Capping an elite skill in perdition rock as a non monk is way to hard because those henchies won't get out of the Meteorshowers

dunno about perdition rock, but I cleared every mob from the 3 fire island misisons with just henchmen. They aren't that bad if you know how to use them.

How do you figure that? Golds are in such abundance if its not perfect you cant sell them at all, unless you go to merchent. Four months ago you would finsh the storyline without even seeing a clean max damage weapon, yet alone a gold. I remember going though the fire island missions with a 6-25 quest reward bow and was glad to have it!

Cheapest they ever been, before Sept 7th I was paying 1300 + gold for a skill.

Yep, thats true but look at the bright side. They fixed the Dragons Lair trick where they run to the portal and ditch the PvE toons. So thats one less humiliation to endure.

When the game originally started (way back when), henchmen were relatively worthless, seeing that they would attack randomly and there were many bugs in their armor and their use of skills.

These items have been improved substantially over the past several months. It can be argued, in some instances, that henchmen actually perform better as a group than many PUGs.

You are focusing on one aspect of henchmen AI...

price of skills and the rank system does hurt this game a lot with new players.

to get rank you need a party that can win. to get a good party you need rank. that is a broken system that makes the rich richer and poor poorer.

price of skills is insane now. the 1k cap was needed for those people that wanted to unlock every skill with 1 character. how many people do or want that? very few. by the time i hit LA my skills were 800g each. they need to have the gold increase like the old system using the 1k as a cap. no point in ruining the game for new players especially since this is a game of skills. not much of a game if i have to grind for gold just to get the skills.

yes you can do quest for your skills. that works for monk fine. for other classes the really good skill are only at vendors.

Or this is a system that encourages players to join guilds and play among their peers. If the rank system was not implemented, no one would invite pickups at all. Too many people think its their given right to join any group they please, simply because "i beet t3h game, so i r l33t".

If you want to start out in Tombs (although I would suggest you find a GvG guild first in order to learn the basics), you should (and I've said too many times already) form a circle of friends to play with. With this group of people, if you wanted, you could form a guild to tomb and gvg with.

As for skills, I dunno about the rest of you folks, but I was paying 1800 gold? for a skill before they implemented a cap.

The problem is ALOT of the guilds that can actually win in Tombs require alot of fame too..

Its Really slow for a guy to get a guild that tombs casually - to get any fame - any guild that tombs are a living wouldnt accept the guy anyway because he has no rank - so they think he is useless.

Arenas and Tombs are set to two completely different standards. I can get 1000s of faction just casually playing CA awhile - theres alot of idiots - you WILL get into groups that take it a few rounds.

Shameless Plug for my thread for helping:

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87662

Check it out!

--The Shim

I agree with original poster, new players are gonna have a hard time in Guild Wars.

However, it seems logical that such is "the nature of the beast". Most people do not want a player who is likely to suck to be in his party (and sadly, most players do indeed suck). So given the choice, why would they, why should they, take a sucky player?

I agree that raising the skill cost to 1 plat was ludicrous. The devs had stated that over 90% of players have less than 20k (or something like that). Hence they should have realized that for most players, 1 plat is not a reasonable price for a skill.

As for PVP, it seems some of you want to take away the choice of good players to be able to weed out sucky players. That would not solve the problem, that would just create another one. All the good players would get fed up of being forced to group with sucky players, and the good players would stop playing.

In my view, the way to make PVP more friendly to new players is to have massive battles. Like instead of 8vs8 or 8vs8vs8, how about 100vs100. In situations like this, good players would help sway the balance of the fight, yet sucky players would also still be able to participate in the gameplay. Of course I have no idea of the technical limitations for them to do that, if any.

It also does not help that IWAY is the only build in the game that casual player PUGs have any chance of having even marginal success with. If the devs want casual players to play PVP, then they need to tweak the skills (or add new skills) so that there are more builds available that are capable of winning without complex massive planning and third party voicechat programs.

I'm lv 11 with my necro and have completed quests to kryta that give me skills and should I buy a skill, I'll be paying about 150g. Your first bought skill (for me anyway) cost me 50g and one skill point. As for less districts for new players, thats a lie. On any given day, a GW vet gets the same amount of districts a newbie gets.

Join a guild.

Wow...You've bought 180 skills on a single character...impressive.

I really don't like the cap. I used to have a 270g price for skills then it skyrocketed to 1plat. Not very nice.

The point of the price in increase is for you to do the missions. And 1K skill only happens MUCH later in the game. Why are you buying the skills to begin with????

You being not selected in Rank 6 group is not ANet's fault. That is a decision of the community at large. Why - do you do Thunderhead with level 9 players???

You can. Its possible - but what take the risk. Same thing for Hall.

GOLD IS NOT HARD TO GET. Through normal gameplay you can get all the gold you need to but armor and skills you need. Not to mention - skills ARE FREE!!!!

That's not really that impressive... I think? there are about 75 skills per profession, multiply that by two, and you get 150.. that's only an additional 30 skills they would have for other professions... now imagin being insane and unlocking all skills on 1 char....

Admitedly, the cap only affected me in a positive way as I had already hit the 1 plat per skill the day before the update.

Spoken like a true carebear. Sorry for cutting out most of it, but really, who would want to see it a second time?

My all time favorite carebear arguement for the population increasing is "there were XXX districts last night. The last time I responded to one of those I went in game and randomly loggen into 8 or 9 of those 20+ districts, and if I recall correctly 6 of them had 0-2 other people in them. One had perhaps 50-60, but that was clearly an aberation, and not the norm.

As far as the player base increasing, we have nothing to base that on except for Gaile Grey's word, which is not exactly reputable. Do you remember her telling us that the dev's wouldn't change the color of the laces on the ranger's boots without telling us? Just how accurate has she proven herself to be in the past?

I suspect that Anet counts everyone who ever logged on as a current player, even if they havn't logged back on since the first week of release. And I wouldn't put it past them to count everyone who logged on during the beta's as "players" either.

Your arguement concerning the cost of skills assumes a need for only 2-5 skills for that secondary. Try unlocking 20 / profession, remembering you're already up against the 1k barier before you ever start working on a new secondary, and you're looking at an easy 100k just to be decently rounded out. Now multiply that by however many PvE toon you care to keep around, with most of the remaining player base seeming to favor 4, with no PvP toons at all. 400k is easy to come across? If you're a good farmer perhaps, or if you ebay. If you're thing is casual play or PvP, good luck with that.

It's all about perception. People feel intimidated because they think they need things. When there is no discernable difference between players because anyone can buy anything, there is no incentive except to make gold.

PvP should be the most accessable since you get a premade lvl20 character, but again the perception is you can't 'really' play unless you have all the good gear.

Once again the community is biting themselves in the butt....

The truth is you can play PvE with no interaction with anyone, and PvP can be played right out of the box. Remember the game is only successful if people buy it...there is no monthly charge.

I've had the game since it came out, and tried to get into PvP after the Sorrows Furnace update. Basically at the time it was impossible for me to find a group not being rank three, and not running IWAY. How is someone supposed to get to rank three if they can't play? I guess it's back to UW soloing for me.

I've played Guild Wars for little over a month and I'm getting along just fine. My main character frequently gets Gold drops, I've survived in UW, SF and FOW attempts, and for the most part have been completly self-sufficient outside of my Guild's help.

I think the only problem new players have is that they are the ultimate incarnation of lazyasses I've seen. A new player (about a week into the game) will be asking for handouts, asking for runs, and asking for hand-me-down items. If any of them had even a 33rd of drive within them, they would have their character ascended, with all missions and bonus swords, both 15+ attribute quests, and their Droks armor in no time like myself.

Just play the god-damned game and stop expecting people to do things for you, I say to the new palyers. You will be rewarded for your hard work, and it isn't even that tough, all you need is a cool head and a basic understanding of the game and each profession's pro's and con's.

That's just my personal opinion. It shouldn't be hard at all for new players to get up to speed with due time.

Quoted for truth.

For PvP I would suggest this thread:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=79839

In regards for PvE, the only mission I can not do with henchies is Thunderkeep. I actually prefer henchies to PUGs pretty much all the time except when going on farming runs.

I agree with Jetdoc except in the point regarding skill points costing 1k each.

I have PvE characters and use them to PvP or Tomb. I can afford the 30-50k to unlock skills needed for each character in order to play a variety of builds. This is after I've done every single skill quest I can.

I just don't see it feasible for most players to spend that much money just on buying skills. Granted if I wanted to unlock for PvP I could just farm faction and delete a PvE character but I've spent too much time and money on my characters . . .

I really wish you could just pay A.net $10 to increase max characters by one.

Heh, if the game last that long you'll be able to pay $50.00 for that ability. I'm not holding my breath that it will make it to the projcted Chapter Two release date.

Maybe some other poster pointed this out already, but you are wrong. For a new character, the first skill you buy costs a skill point and about 50 gold. The next skill you buy costs a little more, I think 60 gold. Etc. Etc. Each time you buy a skill, the price of the next one goes up. The point is: as a new character you are not intended to buy your skills, but to earn them free doing the quests. I have played 4 characters through the game now, and first reached the max 1000 g per skill level somewhere in the jungle because I only bought skills, and capture signets, when I couldn't get them through a quest. Playing the game as it was designed means you get most of your primary and originally chosen secondary skills for free. You pay big money for skills later in the game, but if you are playing the game like it was intended, fighting monsters instead of running around them, then the creature drops will give you enough money to buy any skill you need.

Today's players of GW is generally lazy, and are shooting themselves in the foot by the way they play the game. Getting run, running around the enemy instead of fighting them for the experience of how to use your skills and for the drops. Not doing quests but buying skills instead. Rushing through missions as fast as possible and expecting to get them done on the very first attempt. Getting run to get highest the armour level early in the game so that the earlier part of the game no longer is much of a challenge. And then these players wonder why the PVE part of GW is boring. If that is how today's new player of GW wants to play the game, then fine, but a bit of self discipline will make this game more challenging and more interesting in the long run.

But I play this online cooperative game in my own way. I have been having great success lately in finding good players that share my playing style. What irks me is that low level standing around Droknars asking for money to buy armor. Or anyone at any outpost or town begging for money or raw materials. In my opinion these are people who are getting run instead of playing the game earning money through creature drops. Anecdote: the other night while hanging around Agury Rock some guy comes to me and wants to show me his other character which apparently was a complete twin of mine, clothes, face, color, etc. But his character couldn't come to Agury so he asked me instead to please go to Droknars. His character can get to Droknars and has 15K armor but can't get to Agury? Oh, another runner. I told him to go his way, I couldn't be bothered with people who get run.

Is it harder to earn gold now? As a new player I wouldn't know that it was easier in the past.

Looking at some of the prices for weapons on these forums or seeing trade spam ingame, and looking at my gold balance tells me I cannot afford most of them. If I had the gold then I could get uber armour and weapons which will make combat in missions and quests easier. Since I can't afford them and have to make do with things from drops, poor stuff from currently available collectors, armourers and weaponsmiths - I get my butt kicked in combat...sometimes if not most of the time.

My main character was a W/Mo but I've switched to playing Me/Mo. I'm now level 17 and I've just reached LA. It's taken me a long while to get here. I believe I have followed the game/story through correctly, and have completed all possible quests, missions and bonuses so far. I've seen much lower level people at LA, so did they use runners? skipped parts of the missions/quests? or maybe just better players than me? I don't know and not bothered.

I found Me/Mo more challenging and more fun to play. Most of my time were spent getting beaten up by monsters, tweaking my skillset and attributes, getting beaten up again, more tweaks and more beatings. It's frustrating at times. I do look at builds on forums but I can't use most of them because they usually have an Elite or skills I don't have or yet to come across. I could easily find runners to take me to places to find skills that can make life easier for me, but can I afford to pay a runner? No. Do I want to use a runner? No.

I enjoy experimenting with the equipment and skills that I have, and try to come up with a gameplan to return the beatings that I get. If I don't succeed, I'll try again and again and again until I do.

So does being poor put me off from playing PvE? No, it doesn't because I enjoy the challenge and want to see the story unfold.

Great attitude! Welcome to the game!

Unless you are using your character for PVP, I can't see the reason for buying very expensive items from other players. If you follows the storyline of this game, you will come across the weapons you need through creature drops, or collectors. And it is a great deal more satisfying to finally find a fantastic max damage rare item or weapon, be it green or gold, from a creature drop rather than paying some large sum of money for it. That is why I never buy any weapons from others at all. If I don't find it myself, I don't use it. If you think about it, having your character glide through Guild Wars PVE without even sweating because it is equipped with the best weapons and armour (and skills) that money can buy (armour: with help from a runner) is sort of absurd! No challenge = no fun.

So with the exception for the extremely expensive armour that one has access to late in the game, what ever do you need a lot of money for?

But that is the best way to learn your character and its various skills. Play the game. By not having higher level skills you are forced to use the lower level skills, and then you can really learn what they can do alone and in combination. And in particular, a Mesmer can do so many different things, and I am still trying out new combinations all the time. My current favorite: spirit shackles+mind wrack. After a warrior or ranger's energy reaches zero because of shackles, I just spam him with mind wrack, doing damage each time he hits zero again. And applied to a spell caster (who generally also attacks between casts), this reduces their energy so they can't cast anymore.

I originally started with a R/W setup, got to the searing and found I was ripped off by someone pre searing when they bought 2 silver dyes from me, for 100g (yeah 50g each) no as a new player 50g for an item that is reputably worth 1g according to the descritption, you think is a good price. Then you get to the searing and find out you are way wrong.

I then built my current character a N/W and have been slogging my way through the game. I have not bought any skills but I have earned quite a lot, actually when I go to the skills guys they have no new skills for me to buy that I have not earned.

I'm now at level 14 in Frost Gate and the majority of things I have done only with Henchies. I did the pre sear quests that required me to team up with someone but other than that I have not yet teamed up with others through my choice. I have been asked to go with others and had several guild invites. I am not going to accept any until I have at least gone through the game once in my own right.

I've traded with other for stuff and sold others items and in some cases I have even given away items.

I have been selling some of the purple items I have collected and earning money by just picking up things that drop on the floor that are stackable i.e charr carvings etc.. they only then take up one slot in my bag so not much of an issue. I'm building quite a stockpile of them now and if I sold them I would have quite a bit of gold if needed, I'm just holding on to them just in case and they will always come in for another character build later.

I don't know what the situation was like before and to be honest I don't care. All I do is play for myself and enjoy the game, if I get bored playing through the game then I will look at teaming up with others and facing the challenges that has to offer.

I can understand that people want the best items, but what I don't understand is all the bitching about it being harder than it was or how ANET changes have spoiled it for them? In the end, they are still playing the game so it can't be that bad can it? Think about it, things change. I'm 36 years old and my school exams were a lot harder than the current exams! or were they? Was it not just my way of remembering them? The 60's summer of love, well not that good when you talk to your parents about it. 1966, the last time England won the world cup, and yet it is the only thing we talk about when the competition comes around again! We all remember the past and can not seem to put it behind us! The challenge should be how to survive with what you currently have available to you, not what you could have had.

And how do you think all the r6/9+ got their ranks...by whining?

It's called persistence...

i remeber at the start when me andmy guild had to grind it all the way. i had to go through most of the game myself, but would always stop to help friends. i couldnt w8 to get to a new area to get the new armour. as i didn't know how high the armour went up i spent a lot of money trying to keep myself alive with which ever armour i could afford at the time. when i got to the dessert i found i couldnt really afford the armour so i w8ed same thing happened in shiver peaks. in the end i completed all the missions fire island missions with 40 pyromancer armour. now after going to granet by myself with henchies and saving up i got the 15k pyro set and dyed it black. it was hard work but i appreciate it more thn simply buying money and paing a runner i got most of the places by myself.

about pvp :

when I make a group, I prefer a rank0 dude than a rank6.
why ?
cause at least, I know the rank0 guy didn't avenged his pets during 1000 times to get a wolf emote. rank is a problem with wannabe guys, smart players will accept you. I don't say you will join r9+ groups always and easily, but more often than you can think. the rank system is broken now. I mean, come on, I'm sure than 90% of wolf emotes are iwayed. If not more. Months ago, a deer emote meaned something. Now, I've never played with so much bad wolf guys. It takes you 1 week to get rank6 by playing a warrior and press c+spacebar like a dvmbass. Then, you can claim "r8 lfg". The only "positive" point is by getting r6 you probably get enough faction to unlock all skills. "Positive" , because when you ask an iway warrior to play a mesmer, necro, monk,..., and you realize that he never played anything but a warrior, you realize that you're in another r6-7-8+ useless group. Try to find smart players to play with. If a pug kick you cause you can't show a wolf emote, you can be sure that you missed nothing. This will apply in a few weeks with rank9's . Tiger emote will be spammed like hell. No doubt about that.
IMO, iway ruined the tombs/pvp. GVG is maybe the last thing not hurt. Maybe.

Capping in perdition is easy as a non monk....my ranger did it, my ele did it, the only semi problems i had with it was with my necro, but i got the skill i wanted...meteorshowers arent hard to get out of anyway....

Its pretty impossible to know what its like for new players if you've been with the game for 3months+

only the people new at the game have a right to make any kind of factual comment on how easy/difficult it has been for them.

I would LOVE to be a new player starting out just now... the game is more perfectly balanced, playable, fun, and addictive as its EVER been!

as for the players that come, find it too hard then leave.. GOOD RIDANCE! lol.. ARENANET have made their money.. they've had their moneys worth (and dont even bother to argue that the price isnt worth it, even if you only play it for a few weeks)

everyone helps noobs.. so long as they are willing to be helped, but like anything in this world.. if you want to be good at something YOU have to put the work in.... vets put the work in BY THEMSELVES, rarly do vets seek another players motherly hand.

Again, also, if anyone IS or happens to BE discouraged, needs some info, and how to do things, read my thread in the "Services" forum, I'm trying to rid as many people of this feeling as I can.


The above quote is how I feel in general towards "Newbies" or "New people" Meaning I want to teach them! <I hate the word noob, it's mainly used as a deragatory statement>

Come get the help if you really want to put an effort forth to learn, I'll sit down and you can fire away with the questions. Unbarred

Shameless plug once again as I see there is more convo on the topic:

Link: http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87662

Enjoy. Read up. Any questions post there or PM me.

--The Shim