seems kind of pointless --- what would be a useful situation?
I'm w/n and by the time I get my adren up, his helath has already been lowered.
my partner is e/m, so the surrounding mob has also been lowered.
if he is already below 80%, deep wound doesn't actually do any damage, does it?
I'd test myself, but I only get 1 day/week on lan, so this has to be my lab.
edit ps
re: extra damage skills like galrath slash, etc
do you actually get the damage listed, or is it modded by levels, attribute scores, and armor?
thx
effectiveness of max health lowering ie gash/deep wound? (pve)
eom
Savio
Deep Wound lowers max health by 20% and also does damage equal to 20% max health. As long as they're not below 20% health, it'll be completely effective.
As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage.
As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage.
eom
so, if the foe has a max total of 100 hitpoints, it will bring him down to 80 if he's in the 81-100 range, but otherwise just lowers his ceiling (when he's in the 1-80 range), right?
don't see that doing much good in my particular situation in pve.
you can't layer that stuff, can you?
I would have to find a way to pump my adren and use it vs a pristine opponent.
I could maybe do that --- what kind of hps do monsters have?
right now I'm lvl 15 in kryta, and I'm guessing monsters are maybe lvl 8.....?
I don't think I get that last part.
also remember, we're talking strictly pve.
don't see that doing much good in my particular situation in pve.
you can't layer that stuff, can you?
I would have to find a way to pump my adren and use it vs a pristine opponent.
I could maybe do that --- what kind of hps do monsters have?
right now I'm lvl 15 in kryta, and I'm guessing monsters are maybe lvl 8.....?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage. |
I don't think I get that last part.
also remember, we're talking strictly pve.
Savio
Say an enemy has 100 health. Your ultimate attack - I dunno, Final Thrust maybe) - does 100 damage, which is 100/100 = 100% effective.
Now, you get him with Deep Wound. Ignoring DW damage, he has 80 health now. You do 100 damage, which is 100/80 = 125% effective damage. If he was at full health, it'd be like you hit him for 125 damage rather than 100.
Now, you get him with Deep Wound. Ignoring DW damage, he has 80 health now. You do 100 damage, which is 100/80 = 125% effective damage. If he was at full health, it'd be like you hit him for 125 damage rather than 100.
Former Ruling
When it lowers their max HP - it also in doing that Deals 20% of their max HP to them.
If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it).
If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).
If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think
I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant.
Though I dont deep wound things myself :\
If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it).
If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).
If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think
I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant.
Though I dont deep wound things myself :\
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
When it lowers their max HP - it also in doing that Deals 20% of their max HP to them.
If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it). If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it). If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant. Though I dont deep wound things myself :\ |
eom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).
|
ahhh...that's what I was wondering --- if that's really the case, then it's superkickass.
ps -- savio
I don't get that example at all.
ok, to clear the confusion:
what I am wondering is if this thing does any damage at all to a target currently w/80% or less of it's total max hps.
let's now say the foe has 400 total max and I hit him w/galrath's slash that does 40.
if I had deep wounded him first, how do I do 25% more w/the slash?
in both the case where he's untouched and the case where he's at half hps -- 200.
Savio
Ok, you do 40 damage to a 400 hp enemy - that's 10% of his health (40/400).
Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400).
Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320).
12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing.
Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound.
Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400).
Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320).
12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing.
Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound.
Shimus DarkRaven
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
Ok, you do 40 damage to a 400 hp enemy - that's 10% of his health (40/400).
Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400). Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320). 12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing. Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound. |
--The Shim
Former Ruling
Simply - You ARE NOT doing any extra dmg than what you would be doing - Its just that the dmg happens to take more percentage of his health.
Like 10 dmg to a 100 hp guy would be only 10% of his hp gone, but 10 dmg to an 11 hp guy..thats nearly 98% of his hp gone.
Like 10 dmg to a 100 hp guy would be only 10% of his hp gone, but 10 dmg to an 11 hp guy..thats nearly 98% of his hp gone.
eom
wouldn't that just be the case of any damage following any other damage, if you spin it like that?
doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health?
also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing?
doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health?
also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing?
Shimus DarkRaven
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eom
wouldn't that just be the case of any damage following any other damage, if you spin it like that?
doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health? also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing? |
--The Shim
eom
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven
I believe it does both. By hitting them with deep wound say at 20% down from 200 will inflict <40 damage>, also lowering his hp by 20% to 160 hp for the duration of the status condition. Keep in mind this blow is calculated after the drop in HP and the attack successfully going through, at least on my experience when I deep wound.
--The Shim |
what????
that can't be right.
so, you mean to tell me that on a 400 hp opponent, who has been brought down to 100, I can deep wound him and effectively cap him out so he can't be healed past 80 for the duration of the wound?
that would kick ass.
and I don't understand your last sentence.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eom
edit ps
re: extra damage skills like galrath slash, etc do you actually get the damage listed, or is it modded by levels, attribute scores, and armor? thx |
and what's so great about bleeding?
it was great in presear, but now....?
Shimus DarkRaven
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eom
what????
that can't be right. so, you mean to tell me that on a 400 hp opponent, who has been brought down to 100, I can deep wound him and effectively cap him out so he can't be healed past 80 for the duration of the wound? that would kick ass. and I don't understand your last sentence. |
Say he has 400, and he's down to 100, you still can deep wound, but it drops his overall hp, down 20% from 400 to 320hp but also damaging him that 20% loss on his current HP fur the duration that he can healed too, not 80 from 100.
Example: HP: 400 <---
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20%
Current 80/320
That is what I mean, I could be wrong, but eh...
--The Shim
Rico Carridan
You're making this too complicated, this is basically all you need to know:
If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it.
Rico
If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it.
Rico
eom
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rico Carridan
You're making this too complicated, this is basically all you need to know:
If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it. Rico |
like this?:
Example: HP: 400
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20%
Current 80/320
ok, that's cool then, I guess.
you can't layer it, can you?
Shimus DarkRaven
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eom
like this?:
Example: HP: 400 Current: 100 Deepwound: 20% Current 80/320 ok, that's cool then, I guess. you can't layer it, can you? |
--The Shim
Yukito Kunisaki
Deep Wound used to be bugged in that you can layer it... 
It's a good thing they stopped it, otherwise, everyone with a brain would go axe...
What makes deep wound dangerous is that it lets you kill things super fast and the damage can be a lot worse then one would expect. 20% less hp and 20% less healing? big whup right? [wrong...]
Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike.
The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead...
In terms of sword, the 'classic' combo, which I dislike due to uncontrolled variables is
Sever Artery, Gash, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust
It takes twice as long to do as an axe's spike, but what's so deadly about it is that it lands bleeding + deep wound, a spike, and a super spike in 4 seconds and I've seen this combo kill soft targets in one use no questions asked and deals 80% dmg to an unprepared warrior...
Deep wound technically let's you kill things faster. Why WOULDN'T you want it? Geez...
It's a good thing they stopped it, otherwise, everyone with a brain would go axe...What makes deep wound dangerous is that it lets you kill things super fast and the damage can be a lot worse then one would expect. 20% less hp and 20% less healing? big whup right? [wrong...]
Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike.
The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead...
In terms of sword, the 'classic' combo, which I dislike due to uncontrolled variables is
Sever Artery, Gash, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust
It takes twice as long to do as an axe's spike, but what's so deadly about it is that it lands bleeding + deep wound, a spike, and a super spike in 4 seconds and I've seen this combo kill soft targets in one use no questions asked and deals 80% dmg to an unprepared warrior...
Deep wound technically let's you kill things faster. Why WOULDN'T you want it? Geez...
Glasswalker
Well put Yukito. The additional side to Deep Wound has been touched on, but not truly explained -- and that's the 20% less healing.
If you hit someone with max HP of 400 who is currently at full health, you lower their max by 80, so their new max for the duration of DW is 320. Then the damage is calculated in and (not counting on the crit) you do 28 damage with the swing itself they are at 292 of 320. You follow up with an Executioner's Strike doing 54 damage (he's now at 238 of 320). He uses Healing Signet, which at Tactics of 4 would usually heal for 70 points now only heals for 56 bringing him up to 294 instead of 308. Some argue that this 'effectively' means your ES did 14 extra damage. That is why people say that DW makes your other skills do more damage.
In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left.
Oh, and one other thing. The Monk Enchantment Protective Spirit doesn't allow health to drop by more than 10% with a single attack, but if you use a DW skill on someone when they are at full health, their Max (and therefore their current) health drops by 20% anyway.
If you hit someone with max HP of 400 who is currently at full health, you lower their max by 80, so their new max for the duration of DW is 320. Then the damage is calculated in and (not counting on the crit) you do 28 damage with the swing itself they are at 292 of 320. You follow up with an Executioner's Strike doing 54 damage (he's now at 238 of 320). He uses Healing Signet, which at Tactics of 4 would usually heal for 70 points now only heals for 56 bringing him up to 294 instead of 308. Some argue that this 'effectively' means your ES did 14 extra damage. That is why people say that DW makes your other skills do more damage.
In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left.
Oh, and one other thing. The Monk Enchantment Protective Spirit doesn't allow health to drop by more than 10% with a single attack, but if you use a DW skill on someone when they are at full health, their Max (and therefore their current) health drops by 20% anyway.
eom
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike.
The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead... |
according to the guys above me, if the enemy was at 60% you wouldn't do 100 points on the wound.
for that matter, you wouldn't do it on him w/full hps if you had just landed that 100 hp blow ahead of the wound.
not knocking it, just gathering info as I can't test.
care to make comment on any of my other ?'s ?
edit ps
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Glasswalker
In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left. |
if you use it when he's at 400, it does 80, but if you wait 'til he's at 75, it only does 15, right?
Glasswalker
It does 20% of Max Health, not current health. I've tested this time and again. If Max is 400, it does 80 damage, regardless of what his current health is.
Savio
Okay, screw the math up there, I'll do another example.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 400/400 hp
All my Adrenal attacks are charged. I attack with Disrupting Chop first just to annoy him. 50 damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 350/400 hp
Now I hit with Eviscerate - 100 base damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 250/400 hp
Now, the Deep Wound applies. His max health drops by 80 (20% of 400) and his current health drops by 80 too (20% of 400).
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 170/320 hp
Then I hit with Executioner's Strike - 100 damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 070/320 hp
Clear now?
EDIT: Sorry I'm late, had to run some errands and get lunch.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 400/400 hp
All my Adrenal attacks are charged. I attack with Disrupting Chop first just to annoy him. 50 damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 350/400 hp
Now I hit with Eviscerate - 100 base damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 250/400 hp
Now, the Deep Wound applies. His max health drops by 80 (20% of 400) and his current health drops by 80 too (20% of 400).
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 170/320 hp
Then I hit with Executioner's Strike - 100 damage.
Me -------------------- Lasareth
400/400 hp ------------ 070/320 hp
Clear now?
EDIT: Sorry I'm late, had to run some errands and get lunch.
eom
savio --- you, shimus, and ensign/glasswalker, are posting conflicting info.
edit 1: (posted prior to your last post)
edit 2: oh yeah, that's perfectly clear, but contrary to what shimus posted --- somebody could've just said that to begin with.
there's a lot of conflicting info in here.
edit 3:
and these 2 posts from you ^^ don't line up, either.
edit 1: (posted prior to your last post)
edit 2: oh yeah, that's perfectly clear, but contrary to what shimus posted --- somebody could've just said that to begin with.
there's a lot of conflicting info in here.
edit 3:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
Say an enemy has 100 health. Your ultimate attack - I dunno, Final Thrust maybe) - does 100 damage, which is 100/100 = 100% effective.
Now, you get him with Deep Wound. Ignoring DW damage, he has 80 health now. You do 100 damage, which is 100/80 = 125% effective damage. If he was at full health, it'd be like you hit him for 125 damage rather than 100. |
and these 2 posts from you ^^ don't line up, either.
Fye Duron
Savio is correct...
Deep wound is taken away from the current life total as well as the max life total. It works the same was as Endure Pain. Endure Pain raises both your current and max life total by X amuont. When Endure Pain ends you loss X life from both your current life total as well as max total.
Deep wound is taken away from the current life total as well as the max life total. It works the same was as Endure Pain. Endure Pain raises both your current and max life total by X amuont. When Endure Pain ends you loss X life from both your current life total as well as max total.
eom
ok, now that this has been settled, deep wound seems pretty damn good.
thx everybody
(except you, shimus, for misleading me...)
ps
I don't think that's completely true on endure pain.
if you use it at 50 hps and gain 100 to get to 150, then take 125 hps dam to go to 25 and it wears off -- it will only subtract 24, bringing you to 1.
I don't think it will ever kill you by wearing off.
now, what I would like to know is what would happen if I use endure pain on a train moving east from los angeles at 60 mph, while my foe sustains a deep wound on another train heading west from boston at 20 mph....
thx everybody
(except you, shimus, for misleading me...)
ps
I don't think that's completely true on endure pain.
if you use it at 50 hps and gain 100 to get to 150, then take 125 hps dam to go to 25 and it wears off -- it will only subtract 24, bringing you to 1.
I don't think it will ever kill you by wearing off.
now, what I would like to know is what would happen if I use endure pain on a train moving east from los angeles at 60 mph, while my foe sustains a deep wound on another train heading west from boston at 20 mph....
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eom
now, what I would like to know is what would happen if I use endure pain on a train moving east from los angeles at 60 mph, while my foe sustains a deep wound on another train heading west from boston at 20 mph....
|
Fye Duron
[QUOTE=eom]I don't think that's completely true on endure pain.
if you use it at 50 hps and gain 100 to get to 150, then take 125 hps dam to go to 25 and it wears off -- it will only subtract 24, bringing you to 1.
I don't think it will ever kill you by wearing off.[QUOTE]
That is correct. It would totally suck if it killed you. Anet was nice enough to leave you at 1.
if you use it at 50 hps and gain 100 to get to 150, then take 125 hps dam to go to 25 and it wears off -- it will only subtract 24, bringing you to 1.
I don't think it will ever kill you by wearing off.[QUOTE]
That is correct. It would totally suck if it killed you. Anet was nice enough to leave you at 1.
Glasswalker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fye Duron
That is correct. It would totally suck if it killed you. Anet was nice enough to leave you at 1.
|
Shimus DarkRaven
I fail to see how I mislead you. In so many words, more confusion perhaps, I don't know, it was the best way I knew how to explain it, I said almost the exact same thing Savio did
But eh. Some people just get confused easily.
--The Shim
But eh. Some people just get confused easily.
--The Shim
eom
maybe you meant to say it, but apparently you confused yourself.
your words are irrelevant --- look at your numbers.
edit:
screw it --- I'll spell out the numbers......hey....
Last edited by Shimus DarkRaven : Today at 02:32 PM. Reason: Math error.
ahahahahaha...you little bastard.
anyway, I don't know what you changed, but it looks the same as before.
this is what savio posted:
Example: HP: 400 <---
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20% (of max 400) = 80
Current 20/320
compare each line and find waldo.
savio --- plz correct if I got this wrong.
ps
savio answered it in the first reply of the thread, but clouded the issue w/some squirrely voodoo math while elaborating some tangential issues.
your words are irrelevant --- look at your numbers.
edit:
screw it --- I'll spell out the numbers......hey....
Last edited by Shimus DarkRaven : Today at 02:32 PM. Reason: Math error.
ahahahahaha...you little bastard.
anyway, I don't know what you changed, but it looks the same as before.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven
No, no. Not that way. It works off both HP %'s..
Say he has 400, and he's down to 100, you still can deep wound, but it drops his overall hp, down 20% from 400 to 320hp but also damaging him that 20% loss on his current HP fur the duration that he can healed too, not 80 from 100. Example: HP: 400 <--- Current: 100 Deepwound: 20% Current 80/320 That is what I mean, I could be wrong, but eh... --The Shim |
this is what savio posted:
Example: HP: 400 <---
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20% (of max 400) = 80
Current 20/320
compare each line and find waldo.
savio --- plz correct if I got this wrong.
ps
savio answered it in the first reply of the thread, but clouded the issue w/some squirrely voodoo math while elaborating some tangential issues.