Judge's Insight and Kindle Arrows

Do preparations and skills like Judge's insight, that increase armor penetration, stack? Will the +20 from Kindle arrows be increased by judges insight?

Yes, they will stack for one reason. Kindle is a prep. Judge's insight is a smiting SPELL.

Enjoy.

--The Shim

However, ranger preps and spirits are notorious for being totally unpredictable. The question here is, does the +20 fire damage recieve the benefit of the +20% armor penetration? My guess would be no, but then, I've never seen any testing about this.

Kindle is a preparation and Judges is an enchantment and not just a spell. This is important because your prep can't be stripped but with the enchantment other ranger types can deal you extra damage and necro's and mesmers can strip it.

I haven't tested this so I could be way off, so keep that in mind.
The damage from kindle is +/additional damage which I believe is calculated at the very end of the damage calculation. The extra damage from Judge's is calculated at an earlier point in the calculation. I didn't go back and re-read the combat guide on the main page but it's a really good article to read to get a more accurate description of what happen's with armour penetration and the general theory about how damage is calculated.

Here is the link to the guide (which is kind of hard to notice since the title is "Game Mechanics" and it doesn't stand out for the damage guide it really is.): GWGuru Guide: Game Mechanics ~ A Treatise on Combat Mathematics

I don't think any of us know for sure the exact formulas used in the game, but this is a really good explanation and makes a lot of sense if you think about what he has to say. Only testing your specific case will tell you for sure.

the +20% AP, probably will only apply to the arrow dmg itself, and an additional +20 fire dmg is then applied. So in other words, both skills are working independently on the bows base dmg.

In essence they stack, because you can use em all at once, but dmg wise, they dont affect eachother. Judes Insight is an Enchantment, not a spell. But yes, the work together since one is a prep other is an enchant.

I thinks you can stack as many different enchants as you want and only can use one (1) prep, one (1) shout or one (1) stance at any time...

that sound right? Hope that helpd..

You can have more than one shout active, but only one prep and one stance can be active.
As to kindle arrows and Judge's Insight, no idea...

The Fire Dmg from Kindle Arrows does not gain power from the penetration from Judges.

Judge gives penetration to your attacks - Kindle's dmg is dmg from a Preperation, not an attack.

So you want to be using PENETRATING SHOT against some undead

Judge's Insight.
Enchantment Spell. For 8-18 seconds, target ally's attacks deal Holy damage and have +20% armor penetration.

Kindle Arrows
Preparation. For 24 seconds, your arrows deal fire damage, and hit for an additional 3-20 fire damage.

Interesting thread. This is pure theorycraft on my part, as I have not tested(not sure how, exactly)but I would guess Judge's gives you armor penetration to your base attacks/skills, then Kindle adds 3-20(or more, if you have higher Wilderness, naturally) fire damage, without armor penetration, as 3 others have said.
What I am confused about is whether your arrows deal fire or holy!

i'll test it in a while as i haven't used kindle arrow yet but doesn't it add the fire damage separate to the arrow damage? if so the arrow would deal holy and then the fire damage would just be fire.

As i say i haven't tried it so i could be completly wrong.

oooh, my turn....

Judge's: +20%
Sundering: 10%/10%
Horn/Ivory/Shadow bow: 10/10%

So that's a 1% chance of 40% armor penetration, right?

No, because the Ivory Bow penetration is always on. And technically, Sundering is +10%/10%. It stacks with other stuff.


As for the topic at hand, from what I've seen, anything that does additional or +X damage always is added after armor is calculated. So the bonus from Kindle would not get AP. If I were to guess on damage type, I'd say it would be based on whichever of Kindle and Judge's was applied last.

Former Ruling is right.
Tested some time ago.

~ makk.

Penetrating Shot would have the same effect as Judge's Insight minus the turning into holy dmg.

Judge's Insight is mostly for Barrage on a ranger.

Just to make things more confusing ...

If anyone is going to test this, please also test if preparation Read The Wind (RtW) receives 20% Armor Penetration (AP) from Judge's Insight. I seem to recall a quickshot ranger build that indicated RtW did receive the AP.

My guess, Kindle Arrows doesn't get the AP but RtW does get the AP.