energy cost when you cancel skill? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

13 Dec 2005 at 15:06 - 1

I made a good-faith effort to search for this and didn't find it.

Why, when I start casting a spell or using a skill, and then cancel it of my own volition (by pressing esc), do I still pay my energy cost?

I'm open to there being a very valid balance reason that I'm missing, but if there isn't one, this should be fixed, I think. It is treated differently by the game mechanics, since I do not have to wait for it to recharge, so why do I still pay the energy fee?

This is mainly just a nuisance, when I start casting resurrect right after someone else does, and I cancel it, now I have to wait to recharge, etc., but it can be a problem in battle if I hit the wrong key, for example, and spend 15e casting Shield of Regeneration on someone who's perfectly fine because hitting "esc" doesn't give me my energy back

A bit of a rant, but I'd like to see what the community thinks about this.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

13 Dec 2005 at 15:16 - 2

I agree, I think if you cancel a skill, you should get the energy back.

Is there any reason why this shouldn't happen? Can you cancel a spell that's being interrupted, for example, and sneak out of the interruption penalty?

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

13 Dec 2005 at 15:18 - 3

Maybe:

You casting long-time spell
Enemy monk casts Spellbreaker
You cancel the spell as you saw him using it.

Goonter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

13 Dec 2005 at 15:21 - 4

I dont think it was a mistake to make people pay for a canceled spell. It is punishing and its had me in a bind more times than Id like. The best solution...communication. Its basiclly forced if you want to make the most of your energy.
There could be a clever solution around if it the programers wanted one.

Ruin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

13 Dec 2005 at 15:49 - 5

Balance reasons aside, there's a very valid flavor reason why you don't get energy back.

You're a spellcaster, you channel your concentration, magic power, and all of that (itemized as 'energy') into preparing to cast a spell. You could suddenly decide 'hey I don't want to cast that' and cancel it, but you've still focused a portion of your power into that spell, whether you finished it or not.

super dooper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

W/

13 Dec 2005 at 16:08 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Is there any reason why this shouldn't happen? Can you cancel a spell that's being interrupted, for example, and sneak out of the interruption penalty?

yep you can.. I do it (mostly in CA), when I have a ranger or mesmer on me, I start casting then cancel out as I see it coming then do the real one. it hits my energy pool, but my energy management can generally make up for it..

by taking away the energy loss for doing it I imagine you'd see it alot more, since there'd be nothing to lose.. probably not a good idea.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

13 Dec 2005 at 16:14 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by super dooper

yep you can.. I do it (mostly in CA), when I have a ranger or mesmer on me, I start casting then cancel out as I see it coming then do the real one. it hits my energy pool, but my energy management can generally make up for it..

by taking away the energy loss for doing it I imagine you'd see it alot more, since there'd be nothing to lose.. probably not a good idea.

Makes sense to me...

/not signed

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

13 Dec 2005 at 17:18 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by super dooper

yep you can.. I do it (mostly in CA), when I have a ranger or mesmer on me, I start casting then cancel out as I see it coming then do the real one. it hits my energy pool, but my energy management can generally make up for it..

by taking away the energy loss for doing it I imagine you'd see it alot more, since there'd be nothing to lose.. probably not a good idea.

Ok, I can see this being a problem in PVP, then, I suppose. I almost exclusively play PVE, and the mobs (a) aren't smart about what they interrupt (b) react at computer speed, so it never occured to me to start - cancel - restart to avoid interrupts.

darkdragon99

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

decatur indiana

hell's mercenaries

W/E

13 Dec 2005 at 18:04 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruin

Balance reasons aside, there's a very valid flavor reason why you don't get energy back.

You're a spellcaster, you channel your concentration, magic power, and all of that (itemized as 'energy') into preparing to cast a spell. You could suddenly decide 'hey I don't want to cast that' and cancel it, but you've still focused a portion of your power into that spell, whether you finished it or not.

i feel that by that you'd be able to atleast save some energy i mean you didn't put all the energy you needed into doing it so there for you have some left over

i understand not making it so you get all of it back but still you shouldn't loser all of it to the void either

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

13 Dec 2005 at 18:06 - 10

perhaps half the energy goes back?

Mysterial

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Servants of Fortuna

E/Me

13 Dec 2005 at 18:25 - 11

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back. This would also work around the bug where you go to hit a spell, your computer hitches for a second (GW does that all the time for some reason, at least for me), causing the game to cancel the spell immediately after you start casting.

super dooper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

W/

13 Dec 2005 at 18:36 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back. This would also work around the bug where you go to hit a spell, your computer hitches for a second (GW does that all the time for some reason, at least for me), causing the game to cancel the spell immediately after you start casting.

THIS doesn't sound like a bad idea though, I get that 'bug' or 'glitch' every now and then as well. good thinking. :]

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

13 Dec 2005 at 18:54 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

perhaps half the energy goes back?

what i was gonna suggest

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

13 Dec 2005 at 19:56 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back. This would also work around the bug where you go to hit a spell, your computer hitches for a second (GW does that all the time for some reason, at least for me), causing the game to cancel the spell immediately after you start casting.

This sounds good to me, usually I know pretty quickly if I want to cancel, but it's too late anyway. And then theres the casting-while-autorunning which cancels instantly and just drains your energy. Maybe the PVP players can comment on this in that context, as I'm speaking from a purely PVE perspective again.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

13 Dec 2005 at 20:08 - 15

The only time i say that you dont get energy back is when you get interrupted. because then clearly you were intending to use that skill. other than that u should get half back, its a pain when youre running or just plain moving and you go to cast a spell and it takes another step forward and cencels your spell and youre down 15 or so energy.....

Cymmina

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Me/N

13 Dec 2005 at 22:18 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Maybe:

You casting long-time spell
Enemy monk casts Spellbreaker
You cancel the spell as you saw him using it.

Ok, but what about people who lag? They're getting penalized because they think they've stopped running, but in reality, they're still moving and interrupt their spell. This is extremely irritating.

Aenimus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

United Newbies

W/N

14 Dec 2005 at 06:04 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back. This would also work around the bug where you go to hit a spell, your computer hitches for a second (GW does that all the time for some reason, at least for me), causing the game to cancel the spell immediately after you start casting.

/signed

i hate that lag/autorunning glitch... so frustrating.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

14 Dec 2005 at 07:05 - 18

Personally i just hate it when the exhaustion hits the pool, but no spell effect happens.

Yogi's Pain

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

E/Me

14 Dec 2005 at 07:14 - 19

As someone who only plays casters, this is something that annoys me to no end. However, if i look at it from the amount of spells I cast and then see how many I cancel out of, not really that big of a deal.

So someone casts res just before you do, shame on you two for not communicating. Some oppenant is casting, well someone said an interupt but even if you see them doing that nothing you can do about it but lets say they cast backfire, good for them they beat you to the punch. Or maybe your target has died before you can get off your spell, dumb on your part, should have realized that they wouldn't survived that long anyways.

I run into the situations all the time and I bitch more than anyone that I lost the energy. Then I realize that if I had been sober and thinking clearly I wouldn't have gotten myself into those situations in the first place.

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

14 Dec 2005 at 15:01 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi's Pain

So someone casts res just before you do, shame on you two for not communicating.

This can happen even if you ARE communicating, i.e. you both hit ctrl-# at the same time to call "i'm ressing bob!" Now whoever was a split second later is screwed. It's not a major issue, though, and your point is taken -- most of the time it is basically "user error."

I still think it's annoying.

Shmash Witdaclub

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/E

14 Dec 2005 at 15:29 - 21

I have always been confused about this as well, I liked Ruin's explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruin

You're a spellcaster, you channel your concentration, magic power, and all of that (itemized as 'energy') into preparing to cast a spell. You could suddenly decide 'hey I don't want to cast that' and cancel it, but you've still focused a portion of your power into that spell, whether you finished it or not.

Aside from liking his explanation I still do not like the end effect. I Like the proposal of getting a certain amount of energy back based on the time you spent casting the spell before you canceled.

Also, if a spell is interrupted, you should still lose all energy it took to cast the spell - isn't this a big part of the reason there are interrupt skills in the game? If the just interrupted with no mana loss the opponent would just do somehting else with little or no consequence to being interrupted in the first place.

Anyway, for the most part

/signed
Shmash

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

14 Dec 2005 at 16:35 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmash Witdaclub

Also, if a spell is interrupted, you should still lose all energy it took to cast the spell - isn't this a big part of the reason there are interrupt skills in the game? If the just interrupted with no mana loss the opponent would just do somehting else with little or no consequence to being interrupted in the first place.

I don't think anyone has proposed getting your energy back if you get interrupted.

Xenrath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Me

14 Dec 2005 at 16:38 - 23

I'd like for that annoying bug to be fixed whereby if you're running and you cast a spell/use a signet, some odd sequence of events follow where you stop briefly, but the spell/skill somehow manages to interrupt itself and fails. You lose the energy and the thing never worked

Hannibel

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

Playboy Entertainment

14 Dec 2005 at 16:45 - 24

i think canceling a skill and the energy cost for it is a penelty, i don't think it's a bug.

Xenrath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Me

14 Dec 2005 at 17:56 - 25

No there's definately a glitch, try running (autorun with "R", or just normal) and then use a skill/spell e.g. Healing Signet, and you'll stop running, start using skill and it fails! Not every time but enough times that it's annoying

ghezbora

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Texas

There Is No Cow Level [cow]

14 Dec 2005 at 18:05 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

No there's definately a glitch, try running (autorun with "R", or just normal) and then use a skill/spell e.g. Healing Signet, and you'll stop running, start using skill and it fails! Not every time but enough times that it's annoying

they're 2 independent things. the skill-fails-because-you-were-running is almost surely a bug, but they could fix that and leave it so you still pay the energy penalty when you cancel your skill (i.e. via pressing "esc").

personally i really like the "percentage of casting time remaining energy back" idea

Banaticus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

DSE

W/Me

14 Dec 2005 at 23:38 - 27

That canceling while autorunning has screwed me over before. I hate it.

Dumbassturtle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

05 Aug 2006 at 11:08 - 28

/signed

The partial energy back sounds nice.
I'd like the run cancel bug fixed, also maybe a different way to cancel out of skills rather than run, cause I like to cast skills then run, and you can somewhat queue skills that you cast, I like to be able to queue my running for after I cast the skill instead of accidentally canceling out of the skill at the very end of casting it cause it hit run a millisecond to early. Maybe a 'point of no return' (*sings phantom* lol) thing instead though, so if you hit run at what you think is the end of the spell if its not the end it wont cancel if it'd gotten to a certain point in the cast.

Mars Dragonblade

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Awesometon.

Ministry of Fate [MoF]

W/

05 Aug 2006 at 15:10 - 29

Meh, why not...

/Signed, cos it's one of those irritating things.

Hidden in the Mist

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

05 Aug 2006 at 15:15 - 30

/Not-signed

Zakarr

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Finland

05 Aug 2006 at 15:38 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back.

I like from this idea. However, there should be exceptions like when the target has Spell Breaker or something similar. Then you would lose the energy.

Kendar Muert

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Texas

E/

06 Aug 2006 at 05:06 - 32

i like the idea of percentage regain.

/signed

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

06 Aug 2006 at 06:48 - 33

Absolutely not. For one, it would make interrupts lose their usefulness. If you could cancel a skill anytime, you could "on/off" a skill until the interrupter wastes a skill.

Another issue about canceling interrupts is that it reduces the risk factor when using a spell such as meteor shower. If you could cancel it anytime for a full refund, there would be no risk in throwing it around.

Maybe your idea could be made into a skill (stance; the next time you cancel a skill, you gain energy equal to that spell's cost.), but not as a mechanic.

Ventius Hozza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

London, UK

Powerpuff Boys [PUFF]

R/

06 Aug 2006 at 14:33 - 34

When you are running and want to cast a skill, spam it like crazy - ever since I've been doing that they never fail on me again.

I know what you mean tho, pisses me off when I'm lazy-playing.

Quote:

Absolutely not. For one, it would make interrupts lose their usefulness. If you could cancel a skill anytime, you could "on/off" a skill until the interrupter wastes a skill.

You can do this anyways, it doesn't take too much for an interrupter to cast their skills. cast cancelling ftw. Also, against mesmers it always nice to cast-cancel skills and then throw in a signet. Always gets em with their power leech/spikes. Works like a charm ^^

But yeh, /signed to the percentage cost back for duration you spent casting cast.

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

06 Aug 2006 at 14:38 - 35

you started casting it your energy got used then

It's like starting up a car with gas in it, you don't get the gas back if somehow your masacre your car... put it in drive and floor it lol!!!

Nexium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

06 Aug 2006 at 15:16 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Maybe:

You casting long-time spell
Enemy monk casts Spellbreaker
You cancel the spell as you saw him using it.

yeah as punish you lose energy simpel as..

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

06 Aug 2006 at 16:03 - 37

I wish it was possible to cancel a spell with 1 second cast time. Nearly every healing prayers skill is, and when I heal someone that gets healed by some other means and is no longer in trouble, I try to cancel it to heal someone else and it's like it stops responding. Your character just carries on. Only longer cast time spells can be stopped in my experience.

desolation0

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Pennsylvania

The Teutonic Warriors [TW]

Me/

03 Dec 2006 at 15:16 - 38

The main thing you currently get back from cancelling a spell is the rest of the time it would have taken to cast. Accidently casting/cancelling (outside of glitches) is the players fault, as I think nobody here disagreed with, and taking the energy hit is the consequence. As for getting back energy from cancelling when, say, noticing a spellbreaker in your way is just like cancelling to deke out an interrupter. You casted with the full intention of casting, and again get hit with the consequence.

/unsigned

As far as Exhaustion, I also dislike when I get hit with it when I accidentaly or intentionally cancel a spell. However, it's unlikely to change that due to the way exhaustion would end up interracting with interrupts.

Orinn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Defiant Dragons

03 Dec 2006 at 19:59 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

How about you recover an amount of energy proportional to how far along the casting got? i.e. if you were 0.25 seconds into a 1 second spell you get 75% of the energy cost back. This would also work around the bug where you go to hit a spell, your computer hitches for a second (GW does that all the time for some reason, at least for me), causing the game to cancel the spell immediately after you start casting.

This seems a good idea, although like someone pointed out, if you're interrupted, as opposed to canceling it yourself, you should lose the entire amount. Can anyone see a reason this would be unbalancing, game- or immersion-breaking, or any other reason it shouldn't be done?

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

03 Dec 2006 at 21:05 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Personally i just hate it when the exhaustion hits the pool, but no spell effect happens.

Changing that would screw up Second Wind usage, as i always cancel it a few times before a confrontation even begins.

Besides, this whole canceling cost thing is part of what being a caster is all about. If it ain't broke...

/not signed.